Call for Unified Step Board Exams

[eagle03]

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Since we'll be having a unified residency accreditation process for MDs and DOs come 2015, I am ready for a unified Step 1, 2, and Step 3. NBME is responsible for the main part that is required for MDs and DOs (basically USMLE). NBOME writes the OMT part (1 question block) required for DOs with it being optional for MDs. Both sides and residency programs happy b/c we all have the same testing standard and DOs get to preserve their profession. Remember, we already do 8 question blocks for Comlex Step 1, but only 7 for USMLE Step 1. SOMA, COM SGAs, etc please vouch for this on our behalf.

OMS II

 

[Textbookversion]

Since we'll be having a unified residency accreditation process for MDs and DOs come 2015, I am ready for a unified Step 1, 2, and Step 3. NBME is responsible for the main part that is required for MDs and DOs (basically USMLE). NBOME writes the OMT part (1 question block) required for DOs with it being optional for MDs. Both sides and residency programs happy b/c we all have the same testing standard and DOs get to preserve their profession. Remember, we already do 8 question blocks for Comlex Step 1, but only 7 for USMLE Step 1. SOMA, COM SGAs, etc please vouch for this on our behalf.

OMS II

The group that wouldn't be happy is the AOA and it's various subsidiaries, so no this will not happen until the AOA dies.

 

[playaodamonth]

The group that wouldn't be happy is the AOA and it's various subsidiaries, so no this will not happen until the AOA dies.

Then death we shall have!!! mwahahaha

 

[Mosonik]

http://www.do-online.org/TheDO/?p=133561

Takeaway: Not gonna happen anytime soon. Nice thought though

 

[sylvanthus]

Since we'll be having a unified residency accreditation process for MDs and DOs come 2015, I am ready for a unified Step 1, 2, and Step 3. NBME is responsible for the main part that is required for MDs and DOs (basically USMLE). NBOME writes the OMT part (1 question block) required for DOs with it being optional for MDs. Both sides and residency programs happy b/c we all have the same testing standard and DOs get to preserve their profession. Remember, we already do 8 question blocks for Comlex Step 1, but only 7 for USMLE Step 1. SOMA, COM SGAs, etc please vouch for this on our behalf.

OMS II

The above is not confirmed, they are discussing maybe 2015, maybe as late as 2018, hell maybe never.

 

[sylvanthus]

"We know that the majority of osteopathic graduates who currently complete an ACGME program come back to take the AOA boards. So there is a lot of osteopathic pride in our profession.”"


This is from the above link. Are they really that clueless? I have a real hard time believing that the majority of the nearly 50% of DOs who do an ACGME program decide to also do the AOA specialty boards.

Any tech savy person want to confirm or deny this?

 

[sylvanthus]

"I’m optimistic that DO graduates of ACGME programs will still be able and want to obtain AOA board certification,”

This is also laughable.

 

[Osteotastic]

Eagle3 this is Osteotastic come in Eagle3... ya Im gonna say affirmative on this one Eagle3. You have yourself a good day now.

 

[NeuroLAX]

"I’m optimistic that DO graduates of ACGME programs will still be able and want to obtain AOA board certification,”

This is also laughable.

Optimistic, eh? Funny because when the FOMA president talked to us this week he mentioned there being whispers within the DO community (not necessarily in FL) of concern over this very issue. I'm going to be very pissed if the AOA lets this proposed merger fall apart just because some paranoid DOs want to continue segregative policies at the expense of us being able to further our careers.

 

[DrWBD]

"We know that the majority of osteopathic graduates who currently complete an ACGME program come back to take the AOA boards. So there is a lot of osteopathic pride in our profession.”"


This is from the above link. Are they really that clueless? I have a real hard time believing that the majority of the nearly 50% of DOs who do an ACGME program decide to also do the AOA specialty boards.

Any tech savy person want to confirm or deny this?

"I’m optimistic that DO graduates of ACGME programs will still be able and want to obtain AOA board certification,”

This is also laughable.

Agreed, these are ludicrous statements. I have no desire to get AOA boarded in anything. In order to maintain AOA board certification, one has to maintain membership in the AOA and pay yearly dues. ACGME certification does not have a similar requirement. Additionally, having dual certification serves no useful purpose for (my estimate) 99% of practicing osteopathic physicians.

 

[babdoc]

Agreed, these are ludicrous statements. I have no desire to get AOA boarded in anything. In order to maintain AOA board certification, one has to maintain membership in the AOA and pay yearly dues. ACGME certification does not have a similar requirement. Additionally, having dual certification serves no useful purpose for (my estimate) 99% of practicing osteopathic physicians.

Exactly. Why carry two boards when all that really matters after residency is having a board cert so you can bill insurance.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

I guess one of the main negatives of doing an AOA residency program: being forced to support the AOA with mandatory membership fees.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

"We know that the majority of osteopathic graduates who currently complete an ACGME program come back to take the AOA boards. So there is a lot of osteopathic pride in our profession.""


This is from the above link. Are they really that clueless? I have a real hard time believing that the majority of the nearly 50% of DOs who do an ACGME program decide to also do the AOA specialty boards.

Any tech savy person want to confirm or deny this?

Does this kinda relate to the whole DO Anes going to ACGME residencies and then getting Osteopathic certification because the ACGME board for gas is harder?

 

[NewBlood]

"We know that the majority of osteopathic graduates who currently complete an ACGME program come back to take the AOA boards. So there is a lot of osteopathic pride in our profession.”"


This is from the above link. Are they really that clueless? I have a real hard time believing that the majority of the nearly 50% of DOs who do an ACGME program decide to also do the AOA specialty boards.

Any tech savy person want to confirm or deny this?

I bet that they are referring to COMLEX Step III (or "level" III, whatever the heck they call it to try to be different), as opposed to specialty boards. Or maybe they are lumping in the COMLEX III data to the # of people who take AOA specialty boards.

I am so embarrassed by this organization and all the propaganda they spew out. It's so sad.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Do DOs take comlex 3 after a ACGME residency?

 

[eagle03]

I've been seeing some posts that nothing is going to change in favor of unified boards or residencies due to AOA, but consider these statistics. In 2010, there were 70,000 practicing DOs. In 2020, 100,000 are projected. The growth rate has dramatically increased within the past decade due to enlarging class sizes and new COMs. I believe we will have a very strong influence on osteopathic medical education and helping merge licensing and residency standards with out allopathic colleagues. It's the right thing to do. The AOA senses that there's coming a change of guard. People, we do have strength in numbers and influence on policy.

Source on DO numbers: http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-aoa/about/aoa-annual-statistics/Documents/2012-OMP-report.pdf

 

[bleeker10]

Do DOs take comlex 3 after a ACGME residency?

All DOs have to take all three levels of COMLEX to become fully licensed physicians. Many programs want you to take it intern year whereas others want you to take it by the end of residency.

 

[DrMom]

All DOs have to take all three levels of COMLEX to become fully licensed physicians. Many programs want you to take it intern year whereas others want you to take it by the end of residency.

In many, but not all, states a DO can be licensed through the USMLE so that isn't entirely true.


http://www.fsmb.org/usmle_eliinitial.html (basically, any state with an Osteopathic licensure board requires the COMLEX for DO licensure)

 

[group_theory]

Agreed, these are ludicrous statements. I have no desire to get AOA boarded in anything. In order to maintain AOA board certification, one has to maintain membership in the AOA and pay yearly dues. ACGME certification does not have a similar requirement. Additionally, having dual certification serves no useful purpose for (my estimate) 99% of practicing osteopathic physicians.

Agreed with above sentiments.

I am ACGME trained, and hold 2 board certifications (ABIM and ABP). Why would I have go through the paperwork again (resolution 56) to get my residency approved, so that I can pay for 2 more boards and take 2 more tests to get certified by AOBIM and AOBP (and along with AOA board certification is the requirement to be a member in good standing with the AOA - which means paying dues but also going to AOA conferences so that I can obtain 30 hrs of AOA 1A CME hrs in a 3 year period (and 150 hrs total of CME hrs) just to maintain AOA membership). Oh, and on top of the MOC that I have to do for ABIM and ABP, I will also have to do OCC for the AOA boards. If you don't maintain AOA membership or their new OCC, you lose certification status. To be fair, the ABP and ABIM are heading in that direction too, requiring MOC more frequently to maintain certification (every 2 years instead of every 10)

I already attend ACP, AAP, ACCP/Chest, ATS, and SCCM.

If I were to get certified by the AOA for my specialities, that means I will have to attend the AOA Conventions (national, regional, state) just to maintain my certifications in addition to the OCC.

And what benefits will I have for having AOBIM and AOBP certifications that would justify the additional cost, manpower, and energy?


*since most if not all osteopathic graduates have already taken and passed COMLEX 1, 2 and PE, it's only 1 more test (and 1 day) to be eligible for licensure in all 50 states and territories. USMLE 3 is 2 days, and there are a handful of states that will not recognize USMLE for state licensure.

 

[group_theory]

"We know that the majority of osteopathic graduates who currently complete an ACGME program come back to take the AOA boards. So there is a lot of osteopathic pride in our profession.""


This is from the above link. Are they really that clueless? I have a real hard time believing that the majority of the nearly 50% of DOs who do an ACGME program decide to also do the AOA specialty boards.

Any tech savy person want to confirm or deny this?

This is my attempt. Won't be very accurate because of some conjectures and the fact that there are residents in dually accredited programs. Also doesn't take into account "failure rate" of the boards or those who didn't take the boards (and assuming equal distribution of DOs throughout the years). So with those limitations in mind

Let's start with Pediatrics.

Osteopathic Graduate Medical Education 2013
J Am Osteopath Assoc April 1, 2013 vol. 113 no. 4 303-310 (Table 2)
Number of AOA Pediatrics Resident in 2011-2012 - 175
Assume 1/3 of that number will be graduating osteopathic pediatric residents = 58

Graduate Medical Education 2012
JAMA. 2012;308(21):2264-2279 (Appendix II, Table 2)
Number of ACGME Pediatrics Residents in 2011-2012 who are DOs - 803
Assume 1/3 of that number will be graduating pediatric resident = 267

AOA Board Certification
J Am Osteopath Assoc April 1, 2013 vol. 113 no. 4 339-342 (certification statistics, 2012)
New AOA certifications in pediatrics - 44

"We know that the majority of osteopathic graduates who currently complete an ACGME program come back to take the AOA boards. So there is a lot of osteopathic pride in our profession."" - FALSE (for pediatrics)


Let's try Internal Medicine


Osteopathic Graduate Medical Education 2013
J Am Osteopath Assoc April 1, 2013 vol. 113 no. 4 303-310 (Table 2)
Number of AOA IM Resident in 2011-2012 - 1103
Assume 1/3 of that number will be graduating osteopathic medicine residents = 368

Graduate Medical Education 2012
JAMA. 2012;308(21):2264-2279 (Appendix II, Table 2)
Number of ACGME Medicine Residents in 2011-2012 who are DOs - 1510
Assume 1/3 of that number will be graduating medicine residents = 503

AOA Board Certification
J Am Osteopath Assoc April 1, 2013 vol. 113 no. 4 339-342 (certification statistics, 2012)
New AOA certifications in Internal Medicine - 290

"We know that the majority of osteopathic graduates who currently complete an ACGME program come back to take the AOA boards. So there is a lot of osteopathic pride in our profession."" - FALSE (for medicine)


Let's try Anesthesiology

Osteopathic Graduate Medical Education 2013
J Am Osteopath Assoc April 1, 2013 vol. 113 no. 4 303-310 (Table 2)
Number of AOA Anesthesia Resident in 2011-2012 - 111
Assume 1/4 of that number will be graduating osteopathic anesthesia residents = 28

Graduate Medical Education 2012
JAMA. 2012;308(21):2264-2279 (Appendix II, Table 2)
Number of ACGME Anesthesia Residents in 2011-2012 who are DOs - 460
Assume 1/4 of that number will be graduating anesthesia residents = 115

AOA Board Certification
J Am Osteopath Assoc April 1, 2013 vol. 113 no. 4 339-342 (certification statistics, 2012)
New AOA certifications in Anesthesiology - 27

"We know that the majority of osteopathic graduates who currently complete an ACGME program come back to take the AOA boards. So there is a lot of osteopathic pride in our profession."" - FALSE (for anesthesiology)

 

[thepoopologist]

"We know that the majority of osteopathic graduates who currently complete an ACGME program come back to take the AOA boards. So there is a lot of osteopathic pride in our profession.""


This is from the above link. Are they really that clueless? I have a real hard time believing that the majority of the nearly 50% of DOs who do an ACGME program decide to also do the AOA specialty boards.

Any tech savy person want to confirm or deny this?

I've heard of people who graduate from DO residencies, head to MD fellowships, and then take the AOA board in order to be "boarded" in that fellowship.

Or people who complete an ACGME residency, cannot pass the ACGME board and take the AOA boards instead.

No evidence of either, just read that it's an option, mostly on here. If true there is some utility to it, however useless it may be for the majority of graduates.

??? Any evidence of this.

 

[group_theory]

I've heard of people who graduate from DO residencies, head to MD fellowships, and then take the AOA board in order to be "boarded" in that fellowship.

Or people who complete an ACGME residency, cannot pass the ACGME board and take the AOA boards instead.

No evidence of either, just read that it's an option, mostly on here. If true there is some utility to it, however useless it may be for the majority of graduates.

??? Any evidence of this.

Correct - it is the only options for subspecialty certifications for DOs who did an osteopathic residency followed by an ACGME fellowship. They then petition the AOA to recognize the fellowship as AOA-equivalent, then take the AOA subspecialty boards since their primary certification is an AOA specialty.

Don't know the actual numbers that do this, but probably a handful.

In fact, what led to this merger talk was the ACGME original proposal that would have eliminated this option (acgme fellowship following AOA residency)

 

[sylvanthus]

This is my attempt. Won't be very accurate because of some conjectures and the fact that there are residents in dually accredited programs. Also doesn't take into account "failure rate" of the boards or those who didn't take the boards (and assuming equal distribution of DOs throughout the years). So with those limitations in mind

Let's start with Pediatrics.

Osteopathic Graduate Medical Education 2013
J Am Osteopath Assoc April 1, 2013 vol. 113 no. 4 303-310 (Table 2)
Number of AOA Pediatrics Resident in 2011-2012 - 175
Assume 1/3 of that number will be graduating osteopathic pediatric residents = 58

Graduate Medical Education 2012
JAMA. 2012;308(21):2264-2279 (Appendix II, Table 2)
Number of ACGME Pediatrics Residents in 2011-2012 who are DOs - 803
Assume 1/3 of that number will be graduating pediatric resident = 267

AOA Board Certification
J Am Osteopath Assoc April 1, 2013 vol. 113 no. 4 339-342 (certification statistics, 2012)
New AOA certifications in pediatrics - 44

"We know that the majority of osteopathic graduates who currently complete an ACGME program come back to take the AOA boards. So there is a lot of osteopathic pride in our profession.”" - FALSE (for pediatrics)


Let's try Internal Medicine


Osteopathic Graduate Medical Education 2013
J Am Osteopath Assoc April 1, 2013 vol. 113 no. 4 303-310 (Table 2)
Number of AOA IM Resident in 2011-2012 - 1103
Assume 1/3 of that number will be graduating osteopathic medicine residents = 368

Graduate Medical Education 2012
JAMA. 2012;308(21):2264-2279 (Appendix II, Table 2)
Number of ACGME Medicine Residents in 2011-2012 who are DOs - 1510
Assume 1/3 of that number will be graduating medicine residents = 503

AOA Board Certification
J Am Osteopath Assoc April 1, 2013 vol. 113 no. 4 339-342 (certification statistics, 2012)
New AOA certifications in Internal Medicine - 290

"We know that the majority of osteopathic graduates who currently complete an ACGME program come back to take the AOA boards. So there is a lot of osteopathic pride in our profession.”" - FALSE (for medicine)


Let's try Anesthesiology

Osteopathic Graduate Medical Education 2013
J Am Osteopath Assoc April 1, 2013 vol. 113 no. 4 303-310 (Table 2)
Number of AOA Anesthesia Resident in 2011-2012 - 111
Assume 1/4 of that number will be graduating osteopathic anesthesia residents = 28

Graduate Medical Education 2012
JAMA. 2012;308(21):2264-2279 (Appendix II, Table 2)
Number of ACGME Anesthesia Residents in 2011-2012 who are DOs - 460
Assume 1/4 of that number will be graduating anesthesia residents = 115

AOA Board Certification
J Am Osteopath Assoc April 1, 2013 vol. 113 no. 4 339-342 (certification statistics, 2012)
New AOA certifications in Anesthesiology - 27

"We know that the majority of osteopathic graduates who currently complete an ACGME program come back to take the AOA boards. So there is a lot of osteopathic pride in our profession.”" - FALSE (for anesthesiology)

Nice work that is what I figured.

 

[Osteotastic]

Do DOs take comlex 3 after a ACGME residency?

No, during. Usually any time during the residency as long as you get it done before end of residency though some programs want in done by a particular year.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

No, during. Usually any time during the residency as long as you get it done before end of residency though some programs want in done by a particular year.

Would they require you to also do the usmle 3?

 

[Osteotastic]

Would they require you to also do the usmle 3?

No. Some don't even require USMLE step 1 and will look at COMLEX 1 however taking both COMLEX and USLME step 1 can boost your chances of getting into a ACGME residency. Once in you don't have to take both step 2s or 3s. Most DO's in ACGME programs just take the COMLEX 2s and 3s at this point.

Now as for fellowships and taking all three USMLE's vs COMLEX's that is another matter depending on how competitive the fellowship.

I personally just took both step 1's.
If regulations changed such that ACGME residency (or any residency for that matter) plus taking all 3 steps of USLMLE would allow one to be designated MD, DO... would I go take the time to go back and take the USMLE 2 and 3... yes honestly, I would do that.