Calling All 40+ Med Students

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It isn't about his/her stats; those stats are still comfortably above average even for MD/PhD applicants.
Thanks. Your explanation is loud and clear. If I would be in the admission board I would enforce exactly the same principals for this program. To bad I didn't know the weights of this in advance.
However, some strange thing still bothers me. In many school the MD/PhD rejection automatically trigger an MD track. And here comes silence.
I understand that since it happens later in the process, my application may go to the end of the queue. (Last in, Last out). But it seems there was enough time to process the whole queue already...
 
Thanks. Your explanation is loud and clear. If I would be in the admission board I would enforce exactly the same principals for this program. To bad I didn't know the weights of this in advance.
However, some strange thing still bothers me. In many school the MD/PhD rejection automatically trigger an MD track. And here comes silence.
I understand that since it happens later in the process, my application may go to the end of the queue. (Last in, Last out). But it seems there was enough time to process the whole queue already...

Just curious - are you going to request exit interviews and find out how you can improve your application directly from the schools themselves? Or are you still calling it quits after one cycle (I think you referred to this in your initial post)?
 
I guess all I'm trying to say in the post below your quote is this:
The key to successful sales is to A) believe in your product and B) find out what your prospect wants and package your product accordingly. I think of the medical school application process as a sales challenge in which the 'product' is you and the 'clients' are the admissions committees. I've been thinking long and hard about my own strengths, challenges, areas of confidence, areas of insecurity and am trying to approach the process with those things in mind...


1. What is matter is not look and feel, but survival curve. How many students dropped dead during med school years, internships, residenture and more importantly the average years of service after residentship correlated with the age of admission.

2. You may ignore aging process of the human body, but unfortunately it is what it is. ...In my case, I see the deterioration at sensory/perception system, memory(CNS) and expect dexterity will be next: I need a small lens for precise work in electronics now, I see the degradation of sensitivity for some sound frequencies, my perfect memory now requires some mnemonic devices as flashcards. All that makes me less suitable for some particular jobs. I understand this, Admissions boards too. Should they ignore that?

More then that this type of the discussion will not change anybody's mind and stop them from applying. However, my position is much less dreamily and shows whom we are dealing witt.

The real question is, would you start a battle which you will not only lose, but also will not be allowed to participate in? In some cases the answer is yes, but in most cases it is no.

I see that you are quite passionate about your view, and appreciate your effort to add a bit of skepticism and reality check to the discussion. That said, I'm a bit confused about your posts.

You applied to medical school as an 'older applicant', correct?

When you applied you must have believed that you could get in. Now, just because you have not been accepted yet it seems as if you have given up all hope. And believe that you are too old, too physical frail and too slow in the mind to get into medical school?

Perhaps you were not accepted not due to arrogance but due to lack of confidence and fortitude? Perhaps you projected that you doubted yourself due to your age?

If you really believe in yourself (regardless of age) please do not give up.

It sounds like you have fantastic stats and are great with hard science. It seems to me that if you try again you can get into medical school, as long as you work on soft skills, such as:

  • Humility - apply to second and third tier schools, not just top schools. And be sure to apply early.
  • Honesty - Instead of trying to cover up any doubts about your age with 'bravado' perhaps you can be honest with yourself. Why do you doubt your ability? What are your strengths? How can you become an applicant whose strengths transcend their challenges?
  • Social Behavior - How did you behave in the application process? Were you kind, patient, humble with all people you encountered? Does your essay reflect a belief in yourself AND a sincere desire to serve others? Your posts, while well meaning, come across quite harsh. Perhaps this harshness came across in the application process and harmed your chances?
I wish you well, regardless of whether you try to go to medical school or choose another path. :luck:
 
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Perhaps you were not accepted not due to arrogance but due to lack of confidence and fortitude? Perhaps you projected that you doubted yourself due to your age?

If you really believe in yourself (regardless of age) please do not give up.

It sounds like you have fantastic stats and are great with hard science. It seems to me that if you try again you can get into medical school, as long as you work on soft skills, such as:

  • Humility - apply to second and third tier schools, not just top schools. And be sure to apply early.
  • Honesty - Instead of trying to cover up any doubts about your age with 'bravado' perhaps you can be honest with yourself. Why do you doubt your ability? What are your strengths? How can you become an applicant whose strengths transcend their challenges?
  • Social Behavior - How did you behave in the application process? Were you kind, patient, humble with all people you encountered? Does your essay reflect a belief in yourself AND a sincere desire to serve others? Your posts, while well meaning, come across quite harsh. Perhaps this harshness came across in the application process and harmed your chances?
I wish you well, regardless of whether you try to go to medical school or choose another path. :luck:
I've been thinking about kent's experience, and I agree with you that it's too soon for him/her to give up. But kent tried to apply MD/PhD; this is a very uncommon thing to do as a nontrad even in your 30s, let alone your 40s. I would argue that what s/he should consider doing is changing strategy. Here are my thoughts about possibilities to work around this.

1) If kent plans to have a primarily basic science research career, a straight PhD is one possibility. Getting into graduate school is much easier than getting into medical school, and kent's stats are superior for grad school just as they are for med school. However, it is likely that s/he has already thought about this option and decided not to pursue it. For people who want to have clinical contact, a basic science PhD is obviously not going to get them there.

2) Going for an MD or DO alone is another option. As I said previously, most older nontrads who do this plan to be clinicians after residency, not researchers. However, it is possible to do research with just an MD or DO, especially clinical research. In addition, it is possible at many schools to take a leave of absence during medical school to get an MS or even a PhD. This could be a back door way to do an MD/PhD, although of course it would come with the disadvantage of having to pay for medical school.

3) Not all MD/PhD programs are the same. MSTPs are the most prestigious programs, funded by the NIH and primarily sponsored by the big-name research schools. But many other schools offer MD/PhDs that are not sponsored by the NIH, and a few DO schools even offer DO/PhD programs. This might be something worth looking into.

4) There are several formal five year research MD programs, such as Harvard's HST, Case Western's CCLCM, and Pitt's BSTP/CSTP. These programs are research-intensive and could lead to an MD/MS. They could be completed much faster than an MD/PhD program, and they also provide significant tuition support. Of all the options I listed, I think this is the one I'd suggest trying if kent were to decide to apply again. These programs are fairly new and only take small numbers of students, so kent might be a bit of a trail-blazer applying as an extreme nontrad. But someone has to be first, right? 🙂
 
Since you applied MD/PhD, your stats aren't that amazing. If you're personal statement hints at your arrogance, then I understand the rejections.


👍

That sense of entitlement would kill the best of applications.

I'd love to read the OP's PS!
 
👍

That sense of entitlement would kill the best of applications.

I don't see what is wrong with the sense of entitlement. By today I have 11 pre-interview rejections from 12 apps. People who know me personally are shocked even more then me. Most of them trying to tell me that it is a mistake, as I don't know.
I have time to think and I still consider my case as a pretty strong one and I am willing to do a couple of extra steps. I will try to assemble this case and present it in the Court of Law (Welcome to the dark side🙂 Let the court decide about entitlement. It may be very entertaining hearing, but thanks to admission boards I have a lots of free time and money at my hands now. Trials like this has a history (ex. DeFunis v. Odegaard, 416 U.S. 312 (1974) etc.) on a different grounds. I am wondering how it will turns in my circumstances. No doubt, I better be learning medicine and helping people, then doing this crap, but it seems I have no choice.

Unfortunately, that will be my last post to this community, since I am getting emails that somebody is trying to break a password to my "kentavr" account for the last couple of weeks. It is not easy, but it is theoretically possible and I don't care enough to do something about it. So the best protection will be to tell that everything posted under my nickname will be fake after this post.

Thank you and Good luck to everybody!
 
I don't see what is wrong with the sense of entitlement. By today I have 11 pre-interview rejections from 12 apps. People who know me personally are shocked even more then me. Most of them trying to tell me that it is a mistake, as I don't know.
I have time to think and I still consider my case as a pretty strong one and I am willing to do a couple of extra steps. I will try to assemble this case and present it in the Court of Law (Welcome to the dark side🙂 Let the court decide about entitlement. It may be very entertaining hearing, but thanks to admission boards I have a lots of free time and money at my hands now. Trials like this has a history (ex. DeFunis v. Odegaard, 416 U.S. 312 (1974) etc.) on a different grounds. I am wondering how it will turns in my circumstances. No doubt, I better be learning medicine and helping people, then doing this crap, but it seems I have no choice.

Unfortunately, that will be my last post to this community, since I am getting emails that somebody is trying to break a password to my "kentavr" account for the last couple of weeks. It is not easy, but it is theoretically possible and I don't care enough to do something about it. So the best protection will be to tell that everything posted under my nickname will be fake after this post.

Thank you and Good luck to everybody!
There's a lot of good advice from people with good experience and good intentions here. It's a shame you would choose a path of bitterness when a little introspection and self-knowledge could get you to your goal. Good luck amigo.
 
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