cameras in ambulances

[viostorm]

Video posted on CNN.com today about Tuscon installing cameras in ambulances so that physicians can see patient when giving medical orders.

"Ambulance cams give docs a sneak peak"

http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/

"Live video en route can give doctors a head start in treating patients. KGUN's Jenny Rose reports (May 10)"

http://www.kgun9.com/story.php?id=1734

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[fiznat]

Seems like a gigantic waste of money to me. What is a doc going to see on his TV that cant be accurately described by a quality radio patch? I suppose streaming video could go a long way from avoiding disaster caused by totally inept EMS personnel ("hey did you notice that huge squirting laceration?!"), but what is this really going to provide to a competent urban system? I cant even imagine being told to "move out of the way so the camera can see" in the back of the rig-- especially on a busy trauma or medical where we're trying to do a lot of things at once.

The trend in my system seems to be heading towards "less information" patches anyways. Pretty much all the ED wants to know in a patch is if the patient is critical, and if they need to assemble a trauma/medical alert team right away. Any other info beyond that really is extra, and in most cases, unnecessary. I imagine it being different for long-distance suburban EMS, but thats not where this system is being installed and tested.


Synopsis: pfffffffffffffffft!

 

[a_ditchdoc]

I agree with Fiznat. I have had people bug the hell out of me just by calling me on the radio, or wanting to talk for ten minutes, during arrests or trauma resuscitations. Now they are going to be asking you to move to the side, hold up an injury, hold the monitor up to the cam, and generally make your life difficult when they cannot see from a distance what is clear to you up close. I can see the usefulness of a good pair of wire cutters or black spray paint when it starts getting annoying.

How many Medics do you think will be terminated for a one finger salute?

 

[OSUdoc08]

It's the same concept as having a "teledoc" through telemedicine technology at hospitals that employ NP's and PA's and rarely have physicians on site. This type of care has proven to work.

On a side note, our EMS service had cameras in back, but this was for the driver to view what was going on instead of using the rear view mirror.

Obviously a physician seeing a patient would allow them to make a better decision on the care instead of just taking the word of a paramedic. As you know, the description of a patient by a paramedic isn't always as eloquent as we would like.

 

[southerndoc]

I believe DC is the first city to start testing this.

I agree with many people that the utility of this technology is very limited and not enough to justify its expense.

 

[docB]

I know that AMR is starting to use these. Whatever the reasons are that were given to the press the main reasons or for medicolegal reasons. For malpractice no one is really sure if they will help or hurt. For the sexual misconduct and assault allegations that were forcing some agencies to look at a mandatory 2 in the back policy the camera is cheaper.

 

[a_ditchdoc]

I know that AMR is starting to use these. Whatever the reasons are that were given to the press the main reasons or for medicolegal reasons. For malpractice no one is really sure if they will help or hurt. For the sexual misconduct and assault allegations that were forcing some agencies to look at a mandatory 2 in the back policy the camera is cheaper.

I didn't know that this was a huge probllem, althought I am sure it happens from time to time. I was once accused of stealing $400 fro a patients purse. It was embarrassing to have police officers I knew come to question me. I was angry, not only at the accusation, but because the patient that accused me was only complaining of rectal pain, something she did not need an ambulance for. Her purse was, of course, never in the ambulance. After the investigation, which may have never progressed if I had not known the police officers personally, it was discovered that the patients furniture was being reposessed. She needed top make a $400 payment to keep it. Although it all ended well, and she was charged with filing a false report, I couldn't help but feel a little bitter that a patient would attempt to ruin my career, even after I treated her so nicely, for a meager $400.

 

[docB]

I didn't know that this was a huge probllem, althought I am sure it happens from time to time. I was once accused of stealing $400 fro a patients purse. It was embarrassing to have police officers I knew come to question me. I was angry, not only at the accusation, but because the patient that accused me was only complaining of rectal pain, something she did not need an ambulance for. Her purse was, of course, never in the ambulance. After the investigation, which may have never progressed if I had not known the police officers personally, it was discovered that the patients furniture was being reposessed. She needed top make a $400 payment to keep it. Although it all ended well, and she was charged with filing a false report, I couldn't help but feel a little bitter that a patient would attempt to ruin my career, even after I treated her so nicely, for a meager $400.

So you can imagine the "he said, she said" nature of most complaints that start in the back of an ambulance. Your issue worked out well but something that is resolved so cleanly is rare. You can imagine how tricky an accusation of "he touched me" when the EMT and the patient are in the back of the rig can be. The idea is cameras can put and end to that. I don't know if they will but that's the idea.

 

[a_ditchdoc]

So you can imagine the "he said, she said" nature of most complaints that start in the back of an ambulance. Your issue worked out well but something that is resolved so cleanly is rare. You can imagine how tricky an accusation of "he touched me" when the EMT and the patient are in the back of the rig can be. The idea is cameras can put and end to that. I don't know if they will but that's the idea.

I agree, as it would have resolved my issue in about 30 seconds. But a closed circuit TV camera, without "directors" from the recieving facility, would cost much less, do the same thing, and keep people from asking medics to "Move to the left a little...Can I see his Back? Roll him over..."

And although, as I said in my previous post, in my case I knew the officers well, they did not seem to be all that chummy when they first came to visit. It was, as they say, "Official business." To be honest, it scared the hell out of me. And while I really do think cameras are a good idea in some respects, my guess is that they will open up many more legal liabilties than they will resolve.