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Finally NC could be getting a DO program!!! Anyone else as psyched as I am?
EDIT: Forgot to include web source
http://www.wral.com/news/education/story/8084065/
Last edited:
Campbell COM: NC's First DO Program
Started by pmc2025
EDIT: Forgot to include web source
http://www.wral.com/news/education/story/8084065/
Three years is a long way...However, more DO schools will make the carib schools shut their doors, which is good news for a lot of US students. Therefore, I am happy.
While having more DO schools is a great thing, there is a huge problem with residency spots. All these new schools are opening up but there hasn't been an increase in the number of osteopathic residency programs. I only wonder how many students will be competing for the 10 or so Osteo NS programs when all these new schools open up.
At least when an MD school opens up, there is usually a university hospital that the school is affiliated with and new residency programs are made. This is not the case with DO schools. I can only wonder where these new DO students will be doing their 3rd and 4th year rotations. This is the problem with the accreditation of DO schools.
At least when an MD school opens up, there is usually a university hospital that the school is affiliated with and new residency programs are made. This is not the case with DO schools. I can only wonder where these new DO students will be doing their 3rd and 4th year rotations. This is the problem with the accreditation of DO schools.
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at campbell NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! of all of the great schools in NC and campbell is the one... give me a break. buies creek SUCKS.
There is no way they will have this program in Buies Creek. The only hospital in Harnett County is Betsy Johnson. I would see them hooking up with a hospital in Raleigh or Fayetteville. Most likely Raleigh, since their Law School went there.
Would WakeMed or Rex welcome them with open arms?
Would WakeMed or Rex welcome them with open arms?
good point, if they put this school in downtown raleigh then my opinion would change drastically.
I have ZERO insider info, but there is NO way you can have a med school in Harnett County. Betsy Johnson isn't even a level 3 hospital. I think it could fit well at WakeMed or Rex. And something tells me the City would welcome this with open arms.
According to NPR, Campbell will build the school in Buies Creek, which is where Campbell is located. They will not build a hospital for the program. It seems their primary goal is to increase the number of PCP in NC.
http://wunc.org/programs/news/audio-archive-2/SRH0809.mp3/view
http://wunc.org/programs/news/audio-archive-2/SRH0809.mp3/view
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Ok, and how do they expect to churn out even semi-decent doctors without a hospital? Have them all drive up to Rex for rotations?
rex, wakemed, perhaps duke and unc hospitals, fayetteville, maybe wilmington, who knows.
Would UNC (UNC hospital/Rex) or Duke (Duke/Duke Raleigh) share their facilities with another medical school? I know UNC/ECU both use WakeMed as a facility as well. UNC uses New Hanover as well.
I am sure there will be space, but I just don't know about them going at it without a hospital.
Can anyone think of another medical school (MD/DO) that doesn't have a primary hospital associated with it?
i could be "very wrong" on this but aren't there a bunch (if not most) of DO schools without a primary hospital associated?
Almost none of the DO schools have an attached hospital, as most aren't associated with a traditional university.
There are already more DO graduates than osteopathic residency spots, so it is expected that they will go into allopathic residency spots. I am not interested in the profession, but I am a little disconcerted that they would not make sure there is a corresponding increase in residency spots when they give accreditation to a new school, nor do they seem to care about for-profit medical education in the US. I think the students deserve better.
There are already more DO graduates than osteopathic residency spots, so it is expected that they will go into allopathic residency spots. I am not interested in the profession, but I am a little disconcerted that they would not make sure there is a corresponding increase in residency spots when they give accreditation to a new school, nor do they seem to care about for-profit medical education in the US. I think the students deserve better.
I am unsure how DO Med Schools differ from MD med schools. I know they want this school to focus on primary care. Would a bunch of PC clinics be sufficient?
No, if you're going to be a physician, you should have clinical experience in the last two years that cover all of the specialties. And DO schools do require it, for that reason.
well, although they don't have a primary hospital with their name on it, they have agreements with other hospitals and university's to allow their students to rotate their for their 3rd and 4th years usually
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Yup, some do though, I think Michigan State and a few others have their own system if I am not mistaken?
If I were applying to DO schools, I would base it on the quality and availability of third and fourth year clinical rotations. First two years in all medical schools (MD & DO) is relatively standardized, but they do differ in their last two years, especially DO schools. So I would do some research and talk to residents and 4th year students to try to figure out what they thought of their clinical training and their chances at matching in the specialty of their choice.
If I were applying to DO schools, I would base it on the quality and availability of third and fourth year clinical rotations. First two years in all medical schools (MD & DO) is relatively standardized, but they do differ in their last two years, especially DO schools. So I would do some research and talk to residents and 4th year students to try to figure out what they thought of their clinical training and their chances at matching in the specialty of their choice.
Ahhhh I sense a repeat of the thread about Marian University in IN!!!
To make some clarifications, LOTS of DO schools don't have affiliated hospitals that are theirs and strictly theirs as far as rotating students go. However, it's not like there are absolutely NO hospitals left in which to rotate. The thing you have to realize is that the large majority of DO schools opening up in the middle of nowhere are, in fact, doing it on purpose. "Whaaaat?" you might say. Yes, the rumor is true! 🙂 At LMU-DCOM for example, they put students one core rotation sites throughout TN, KY, and some of AL and VA. It is intentional. They would like to see their students ultimately practice there, so what better than to expose them to lesser known community hospitals. In fact, we already have recruiters coming to see our class of 2014 to talk to us about rotating there (as well as potential loan payoffs they offer if we work there later!)
I think what people need to realize is that the whole hospital issue has pros and cons and it really just depends on what works for YOU. If you want a major hospital where you get to "see so much" (I put it in quotes because people aren't aware of how much you see in small towns- it may not be gun shot wounds but it is some cool stuff), then you should go there! If you're like me, however, and want the opportunity to rotate at a hospital where there are NO residents, NO other students, and even NO attendings...aka YOU get to be first assist on deliveries and surgeries, plus getting to do important procedures right off the bat...then you might want to choose one of these schools that offers that opportunity. I'll take lots of first hand experience over being an observer any day. Again, each style has appeal to different people for different reasons.
And remember, just because you choose a school with a program that ships you out across the state/region, it does NOT mean you have no flexibility. DCOM allows you to set up basically any elective rotation (and you get a LOT) wherever you want as long as you do the work and get it approved. I hear of students being in Missouri, Indiana, Michigan, and California ALL the time. Also, you don't necessarily get stuck at all hospitals that have no resident training- when I volunteered at a major children's hospital in Indiana, there were WVSOM students rotating there!
Hopefully that sheds some light on that particular side of the argument. As for the residency issue- I simply hope it gets worked out in time for the influx of all the new DOs. Lord knows we need these docs- we just need to find room for them all financially.
To make some clarifications, LOTS of DO schools don't have affiliated hospitals that are theirs and strictly theirs as far as rotating students go. However, it's not like there are absolutely NO hospitals left in which to rotate. The thing you have to realize is that the large majority of DO schools opening up in the middle of nowhere are, in fact, doing it on purpose. "Whaaaat?" you might say. Yes, the rumor is true! 🙂 At LMU-DCOM for example, they put students one core rotation sites throughout TN, KY, and some of AL and VA. It is intentional. They would like to see their students ultimately practice there, so what better than to expose them to lesser known community hospitals. In fact, we already have recruiters coming to see our class of 2014 to talk to us about rotating there (as well as potential loan payoffs they offer if we work there later!)
I think what people need to realize is that the whole hospital issue has pros and cons and it really just depends on what works for YOU. If you want a major hospital where you get to "see so much" (I put it in quotes because people aren't aware of how much you see in small towns- it may not be gun shot wounds but it is some cool stuff), then you should go there! If you're like me, however, and want the opportunity to rotate at a hospital where there are NO residents, NO other students, and even NO attendings...aka YOU get to be first assist on deliveries and surgeries, plus getting to do important procedures right off the bat...then you might want to choose one of these schools that offers that opportunity. I'll take lots of first hand experience over being an observer any day. Again, each style has appeal to different people for different reasons.
And remember, just because you choose a school with a program that ships you out across the state/region, it does NOT mean you have no flexibility. DCOM allows you to set up basically any elective rotation (and you get a LOT) wherever you want as long as you do the work and get it approved. I hear of students being in Missouri, Indiana, Michigan, and California ALL the time. Also, you don't necessarily get stuck at all hospitals that have no resident training- when I volunteered at a major children's hospital in Indiana, there were WVSOM students rotating there!
Hopefully that sheds some light on that particular side of the argument. As for the residency issue- I simply hope it gets worked out in time for the influx of all the new DOs. Lord knows we need these docs- we just need to find room for them all financially.
Who do you assist then... DNP's?
Great another non-research university gets a DO school. COCA needs to start closing down some of the crappier schools and not allowing more god awful schools to start them, unless they open up enough spots for their entire class and not just in community IM. I hope this never gets off the ground. I'm glad I've got options other than practicing medicine as even FM will start being competitive as these lower tier schools keep on dumping warm bodies into the match.
To be fair, they have a Law School, Divinity School, Pharmacy School and Physician Asst program, among other things. It isn't some bump on the log school. It actually is the largest private school in North Carolina.
I think alot of DO schools market this idea so they dont have to set up teaching hospitals. So maybe you got to do a few more procedures than somebody who went to a teaching hospital. In the big scheme of things it probably wont make a difference. What will make a difference is the amount of academic teaching going on. In my opinion it seems harder to make up for the absence of this aspect of medical education. If you're going to lecture twice a day you're going to pick up alot of knowledge that you wont from following around your preceptor. The attendings are going to be focused on patients first and teaching second. There is a ton of stuff that i learn from residents that i wouldnt necessarily get from attendings. If you go to a DO school that offers the chance to go to a teaching hospital take it.
Lol that's really just probably my misunderstanding of hospital hierarchy at this point. I associate attendings with hospitals that facilitate residency programs. According to the ever so credible source Wiki lol, the term attending "is used more commonly in teaching hospitals. In non-teaching hospitals, essentially all doctors function as attendings in some respects after completing residency." So I messed up the lingo. My bad. It doesn't change my point because obviously medical students don't train with DNPs. But thanks for the comment rather than the polite correction 🙂
I really think it's just a matter of opinion. Chances are there are probably studies done on this, since medical education seems to be a subject of great interest in the research world. Either way, people obviously learn differently. I learn by doing, not by being told things. And to say that doing "a few more procedures" won't make a difference just doesn't make sense to me, but again I am a hands-on learner. One instance in particular I think of is one of the kids at DCOM talked about how during his obgyn rotation (which is 4 weeks if I remember correctly), he delivered 23 babies. 23. That is a LOT of babies. The moon must have been in just the right spot because so many students talk about not even getting to see that many births on obgyn, due to both poor timing and lack of opportunity because of their lowly med student status.
Regardless of what people think or prefer, I am simply trying to convey that there are advantages to rotating at some small hospitals. I disagree that one is better than the other. It's just something to think about when you're choosing a school that fits you most. Ok, I'm done 🙂
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The issue isn't just the number of procedures it's doing them with someone who can teach an dis willing to do so. 23 deliveries may or may not be impressive. The issue is being exposed to various sorts of deliveries i.e. C-sections, vaginal delivery, multiple births or breech births. The issue isn't related to size per se, it is much more related to volume and the quality of the attendings.
Size does matter more so for some rotations than others, as for surgery, medicine and OB-GYN, higher patient censuses are a good thing as you want to be able to see varying procedures and presentations of diseases. As to learning by doing, that depends more on the individual attendings, residents and interns allowing you to do procedures.
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