Can a 2.0 make it into med school?

[hematosis]

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I wouldn't recommend this, but just for kicks..... you could go to another university, new major, new GPA, take the MCAT and apply. Hopefully you will do better this time around. When you apply, just apply with your new school and "omit" your crappy 2.0 GPA from your previous school. There is, of course, the risk of getting caught somehow through a extensive background investigation...but i guess desperate times calls for desperate measures.


What i would recommend is do 1 year of post-back to get into a SMP. Do Well in the SMP and on the MCAT (30+) and apply to the big 4 Caribbean schools. This will take about 2 years but it will get your foot in the door.

The real question is can you change your lifestyle and capitalize on your mistakes. what will you do to get a better GPA.

Anything is possible.

 

[panasonic52]

I also have no clue why DOs are looked down upon by some people. I'm doing my SMP at UNTHSC so I may be biased, but I've heard patients say that they specifically looked for DOs because they are more hands-on. Many MDs barely even touch you before prescribing meds for whatever ailment you have. The bottom line is that you get the same education whether at an allopathic or a osteopathic school. You just happen to get OMM added on if you go to an osteopathic school.

Anyway, back to the original post...the Academic Fresh Start program sounds like the best option if you're willing to spend the amount of time it'll take before you apply to med school again. I hope you get what you want in the end, though. Some docs get amazing MCAT scores/GPA in undergrad but you would never want them to treat you. Unfortunately, med schools still have to play the numbers game to some extent

 

[EdLongshanks]

I wouldn't recommend this, but just for kicks..... you could go to another university, new major, new GPA, take the MCAT and apply. Hopefully you will do better this time around. When you apply, just apply with your new school and "omit" your crappy 2.0 GPA from your previous school. There is, of course, the risk of getting caught somehow through a extensive background investigation...but i guess desperate times calls for desperate measures.


What i would recommend is do 1 year of post-back to get into a SMP. Do Well in the SMP and on the MCAT (30+) and apply to the big 4 Caribbean schools. This will take about 2 years but it will get your foot in the door.

The real question is can you change your lifestyle and capitalize on your mistakes. what will you do to get a better GPA.

Anything is possible.

No, this wouldn't work. AMCAS doesn't have to do "extensive background" checks to catch this. You would get caught and then flagged as a cheater. Forget it.

 

[EdLongshanks]

Nobody said it would preclude you from DO, but it wouldn't look good on an application to list at least 50% of your courses as retakes.

No, but at least at that point you are talking to a human with the power to make judgments, not a computer, or even an admissions clerk, who is just running numbers.

If a person could present themselves well and say, "I was an idiot when I was twenty and continued trying to take courses while sick and in the hospital, but now I am both better physically and wiser." Some interviewers would, at that point, say, "Ok, I understand, and admire your dedication in re-taking all of these courses."

 

[eablackwell]

I wouldn't recommend this, but just for kicks..... you could go to another university, new major, new GPA, take the MCAT and apply. Hopefully you will do better this time around. When you apply, just apply with your new school and "omit" your crappy 2.0 GPA from your previous school. There is, of course, the risk of getting caught somehow through a extensive background investigation...but i guess desperate times calls for desperate measures.


What i would recommend is do 1 year of post-back to get into a SMP. Do Well in the SMP and on the MCAT (30+) and apply to the big 4 Caribbean schools. This will take about 2 years but it will get your foot in the door.

The real question is can you change your lifestyle and capitalize on your mistakes. what will you do to get a better GPA.

Anything is possible.

I agree not to even think about this. Even if by some fluke they don't catch it before you enter med school, they could catch you as late as the day before graduation and kick you out. No degree, no hope of being readmitted 100s of thousands in loans. Don't sacrifice your integrity for something like this.

And yes, I realize it had the "I don't recommend this" disclaimer, but people do stupid things in desperation, and there are few things more precious than time.

 

[ChE04]

I wouldn't recommend this, but just for kicks..... you could go to another university, new major, new GPA, take the MCAT and apply. Hopefully you will do better this time around. When you apply, just apply with your new school and "omit" your crappy 2.0 GPA from your previous school. There is, of course, the risk of getting caught somehow through a extensive background investigation...but i guess desperate times calls for desperate measures.

Here's another idea...

Find someone who just got accepted into med school with whom you bear a passing resemblance. Murder them and dispose of the body. Assume that person's identity.

I wouldn't recommend this, though.

 

[hematosis]

Not only will no SMP take her, but the Caribbean is much more concerned with reporting higher GPAs for their admitted students than to report a 1 year masters.


Largely because it is an "unknown" degree that had a bad history 30+ years ago when a lot of members were unconventional and could only practice in 26 states. In today's world, a DO is the exact same as an MD. Mark my words, the DO degree will be very respected in the future. By no means do I intend to say that it will overshadow MD, but as DO schools keep opening and opening, students will prefer this track over the Caribbean MD. Just in the past 10 years the AOA opened about 15 new campuses and within the next 10 years they expect double the amount of DO graduates compared to today.

Pretty sure Caribbeans are more concerned with getting money than reporting their average GPA. It is true that they are not going to take a 2.0 into their school, but i am almost certain if you can get a solid post-bac GPA, solid SMP GPA, and a 30+ MCAT you will at least get into SABA or AUC or ROSS Merp.
Further, If you read my post carefully, I recommended op do a postbac before applying to SMP.

 

[hematosis]

Here's another idea...

Find someone who just got accepted into med school with whom you bear a passing resemblance. Murder them and dispose of the body. Assume that person's identity.

I wouldn't recommend this, though.

stop copying me.

 

[45408]

only pre-meds and especially SDN pre-meds know and think about this stuff. Besides, once you're in medical school and a guy with a 33 MCAT is dominating a guy with a 41, you will begin to understand that MCAT mental horsepower doesn't mean much.

Diminishing returns. There isn't *that* much difference between a 33 and a 41 compared to a 33 and a 25.

 

[grandmawrinkle]

Should I get a BSN in nursing to show I can handle the course load?

I hate to break it to you, but you would have to do some academic repair work to even get into a nursing program. BSN programs won't accept you with a 2.0. Most schools have a minimum program application requirement of a 2.5, and typically admit students with GPAs of at least a 3.0. Nursing programs at good universities with good reputations often have many more applicants than they have slots for and can afford to accept students with much higher GPAs than a 3.

 

[JamesLMT]

longshanks got a 33!!!!!

el oh frickin el

 

[Cleavername]

It really sounds like I'm screwed, but there's nothing else I'm interested in doing. I really want to work pediatric oncology. 🙁

i was told this one time that this dude got in john hops with 0.00 gpa since he pass and failed everything else. he had a 40ish mcat. his ECs were, um, lets just say its the one in a decade profile, ima give u a taste of it, he patented a medical device or something. so u do have a chance at med school, its kind of depended on rest of ur application.

 

[MCAT guy]

Diminishing returns. There isn't *that* much difference between a 33 and a 41 compared to a 33 and a 25.

Medical school as everyone talks about has to do with learning massive amounts of info at an incredibly fast pace. The MCAT is a mental horsepower test. These are different skills.

Compare the gap between say a 31 and a 33, compared to the gap between a 33 and 41.

Would you say these are both *small* gaps? A 40 is incredibly difficult to achieve, but a 33 isn't. My point is the MCAT and medical school success are two completely different skill sets. I forgot which MD school it was, but they had a sub-30 MCAT as their #1 student about a year ago. A florida MD school I believe.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

i was told this one time that this dude got in john hops with 0.00 gpa since he pass and failed everything else. he had a 40ish mcat. his ECs were, um, lets just say its the one in a decade profile, ima give u a taste of it, he patented a medical device or something. so u do have a chance at med school, its kind of depended on rest of ur application.

If I remember correctly, Q also had to jump through hoops due to her non-standard grading system. That's not the OP's problem though; her problem is that her standard grading system GPA is terrible. Big difference.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

Medical school as everyone talks about has to do with learning massive amounts of info at an incredibly fast pace. The MCAT is a mental horsepower test. These are different skills.

Compare the gap between say a 31 and a 33, compared to the gap between a 33 and 41.

Would you say these are both *small* gaps? A 40 is incredibly difficult to achieve, but a 33 isn't. My point is the MCAT and medical school success are two completely different skill sets. I forgot which MD school it was, but they had a sub-30 MCAT as their #1 student about a year ago. A florida MD school I believe.

And what's the statistical significance of that anecdote? The MCAT correlates well to med school success; the schools don't get rich off of making people take it. There has to be a reason they make everyone take a test that they complain about constantly, other than it's the way things have always been done, right? MCAT and med school success are different skill sets, but the correlation of success in both in the same population is too strong to ignore.

 

[MCAT guy]

And what's the statistical significance of that anecdote? The MCAT correlates well to med school success; the schools don't get rich off of making people take it. There has to be a reason they make everyone take a test that they complain about constantly, other than it's the way things have always been done, right? MCAT and med school success are different skill sets, but the correlation of success in both in the same population is too strong to ignore.

You quoted the movie Fight Club, so I can in no way not like you as a person. 😀

Dude, I tend to respectfully disagree. I think the MCAT makes sure they get smart doctors, BUT I do not think it is a predictor of med school success (which we would certainly have to define). It may be a predictor of board scores, which I have seen correlations for. But I have never seen a statistics to show that the higher the MCAT, the more likely you'll be a better medical student. The anecdote I stated was only to show that a person who uses a lot of effort may not be able to dominate the MCAT VR section, but this same person can do very well in medical school.

There is a whole allo thread on Smart vs. Effort right now (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=763843). The resounding message is that medical school is mostly efficient learning, being able to pace well, and be motivated (effort) than it is being a person who can do quantum physics with ease.

few interesting quotes:

Me = no IQ test higher than 100 (dead normal). My medical school performance was #3 in my class and AOA. I am extremely efficient at learning quickly and thoroughly.

Motivation is more of a guarantee for success than intelligence, though obviously you need a balance of both. I know a lot of highly "intelligent" people, who've done things like 1600 SATs and 40+ MCAT and Ivy League diplomas, etc. But then, when med school started, they were lost, because for the first time in their lives motivation was a determining factor.

I don't think one has to be truly brilliant to have the ability to span the spectrum. IMO a large portion of succeeding in med school is the ability to adapt, one does not have to be brilliant to adapt, just cognizant of one's strengths and weaknesses and how to adjust studying strategy for different year's, different classes etc.

I don't think medical school is really about being smart...it's about cramming information into your head and being able to regurgitate it for an exam. In my estimation, being smart is being able to think, and in my experience thus far, you don't really have to think in medical school.

I got through undergrad without studying much, and that shiz does NOT fly here. It's all about your study habits/effort.

Medical school is just memorization and understanding algorithms to solve problems that have been solved for you (to an extent, not every pt is the same). Some people can just memorize with greater ease and don't need to put in as much time. I wouldn't define "smart" as the ability to memorize massive amounts of material with ease. Solving problems that haven't been solved before yes...but memorizing problems and the answer...no.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

You quoted the movie Fight Club, so I can in no way not like you as a person. 😀

Dude, I tend to respectfully disagree. I think the MCAT makes sure they get smart doctors, BUT I do not think it is a predictor of med school success (which we would certainly have to define). It may be a predictor of board scores, which I have seen correlations for. But I have never seen a statistics to show that the higher the MCAT, the more likely you'll be a better medical student. The anecdote I stated was only to show that a person who uses a lot of effort may not be able to dominate the MCAT VR section, but this same person can do very well in medical school.

There is a whole allo thread on Smart vs. Effort right now (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=763843). The resounding message is that medical school is mostly efficient learning and being able to pace well than it is being a person who can do quantum physics with ease.

I agree, we're nibbling around the edges, and I'm surely not spoiling for a fight with you in particular on this. I guess my bigger point is that there are a lot of these posts, and it all comes down to the same thing: show an adcom that you can hack it. Somehow. If there's one, there's a thousand threads bemoaning the medical school application process. "I'm so much better than my 2.4 BCPM/22M reflect! I'm the shiite!" Well, you better have a credible way of PROVING your badassedness since your simple stats blow. Words mean nothing. It's the same as interviewing for any other job. When they ask you "how well do you work in a team environment?" The correct answer isn't "I work awesome in a team environment." The correct answer is something like "I have thrived in team environments, particularly in the my last position as XYZ, where (insert concrete, verifiable story here)...." You get the idea. If your MCAT score doesn't tell the story of what you can do, and your GPA doesn't tell the story of what you can do, then what does? You better have some EC's that bring the heat, because there has to be a definable, concrete reason for adcoms to KNOW that you can get your act together and succeed in medical school and beyond, no matter how we define "success." There are no secrets to the process. Show them that you can hack it, be that through hard work or through raw intelligence. But it has to be something, and it has to be compelling, because there are more MCAT scorers who make above the median MCAT score of 26 than there are seats in MD and DO programs combined. Swap out some numbers, and grades are the same way. But if you have a story that tells an adcom in no uncertain terms that you have the right stuff, you will get an acceptance somewhere. That's why there are so many anecdotal stories that reflect them, how the guy with the 30 got into HMS or the girl with a 2.4 is at Mayo. There are tons of friends of friends of cousins who got into great schools with bad stats. I guarantee there was something in their application that forced the adcom to accept that they would absolutely succeed in their curriculum. It wasn't luck.

 

[MCAT guy]

I agree, we're nibbling around the edges, and I'm surely not spoiling for a fight with you in particular on this. I guess my bigger point is that there are a lot of these posts, and it all comes down to the same thing: show an adcom that you can hack it. Somehow. If there's one, there's a thousand threads bemoaning the medical school application process. "I'm so much better than my 2.4 BCPM/22M reflect! I'm the shiite!" Well, you better have a credible way of PROVING your badassedness since your simple stats blow. Words mean nothing. It's the same as interviewing for any other job. When they ask you "how well do you work in a team environment?" The correct answer isn't "I work awesome in a team environment." The correct answer is something like "I have thrived in team environments, particularly in the my last position as XYZ, where (insert concrete, verifiable story here)...." You get the idea. If your MCAT score doesn't tell the story of what you can do, and your GPA doesn't tell the story of what you can do, then what does? You better have some EC's that bring the heat, because there has to be a definable, concrete reason for adcoms to KNOW that you can get your act together and succeed in medical school and beyond, no matter how we define "success." There are no secrets to the process. Show them that you can hack it, be that through hard work or through raw intelligence. But it has to be something, and it has to be compelling, because there are more MCAT scorers who make above the median MCAT score of 26 than there are seats in MD and DO programs combined. Swap out some numbers, and grades are the same way. But if you have a story that tells an adcom in no uncertain terms that you have the right stuff, you will get an acceptance somewhere. That's why there are so many anecdotal stories that reflect them, how the guy with the 30 got into HMS or the girl with a 2.4 is at Mayo. There are tons of friends of friends of cousins who got into great schools with bad stats. I guarantee there was something in their application that forced the adcom to accept that they would absolutely succeed in their curriculum. It wasn't luck.

agreed 100%.

And good luck brotha, we will both soon be medical students!

 

[Pons Asinorum]

agreed 100%.

And good luck brotha, we will both soon be medical students!

Same to you. I have no doubt.

 

[avatarftw]

I wasn't going to post, but I didn't like what the haters were saying.

Its going to be very difficult for you to get into med school (MD/DO). However, you can definitely do it if you dedicate yourself and kick butt on the MCAT and retake the classes that you did worst in. (especially the science courses. Organic chemistry, physics, biochemistry, etc)

I would recommend going the DO route; realistically I don't think you have a shot at MD schools. The grade replacement policy isn't a back door into medicine; its giving people a second chance to show that they can hack it into med school. It shows resiliency and fortitude. A 2.0 is probably too low for the special masters programs; if I were you I would talk to a counselor if you haven't already done so.

If I were in your position, I would take about 1.5 years of science credits (3 science classes a semester for 1.5 years) then kick butt on the MCAT. You can't erase your old grades but the most recent ones count more. Who cares what you did 3 years ago, what matters most is what you have done recently. Good luck! 🙂

I had two major setbacks in college and am just now graduating (next May) and will wind up having exactly a 2.0 GPA. Horrible, I know, but it's not for lack of intelligence. I've finally gotten past the bad things that have happened and am focused on school again. I still want to go into medicine (peds oncology), but I'm not sure HOW to go about getting in the door since my GPA is so laughable.

Should I get a SECOND bachelor's degree? Should I get a BSN in nursing to show I can handle the course load? I really really want to get into med school and for the past year have gotten all A's and B's in school, but I'm not sure how to undo the past grade damage. I could really use some pointers here! I need a direction hehe. 😎

 

[Luv2Cut]

There are DO programs that have what are called BRIDGE programs for students that have numbers that are less than optimum. Might check it out and do some searches.

I'm hoping that the 2.0 is due to the oldest part of your grades. In other words, if your 2.0 is due to the first year or two or undergrad but your most recent work is strong (>3.5) then you have a decent chance to get into med school. Touch base with some schools, tell them your situation and be honest and forthright. Ask them what you need to do to get in to med school with your present situation. Most school are interested in your most recent work.

When I applied to med school in 1996 I asked my school what I needed to do. I was worried because I hadn't been in school for about 7 years. I was a CS/EE major in the mid 80s and left school ending up with a 1.9 GPA due to the fact i didn't formerly withdraw and ended up with almost all "F"s the last semester AND the fact I was young and stupid and just didn't study. On a side note you can be an extremely bright and gifted person but if you don't put the work in, its just like you never had it. When I went back, I attended a community college for a year taking a year of chemistry and some entry level biology classes and humanities and did a summer research project at med school which I ended up publishing. I made all As and was able to transfer to a prestigious private university in my state and did well there as well. When I graduated in 1997 I had a 3.49 GPA and almost qualifed for cum laude at graduation.

Admission committees are more interested in what have you done lately. You will likely be told to enroll in a graduate level program to raise your GPA and further prepare yourself for med school. If that is the case, then don't underestimate the importance of this time. You will be able to continue developing in your study habits and research many topics you'll be exposed to in med school. This is a good time to get a PT job in a hospital and you can see first hand how it all works. Even if your in the lab entering data or have the opportunity to run EKGs on patients, this is all good preliminary experience and, trust me, these experiences only help you in med school. In other words as I like to say, "Don't despise the time of small beginnings."

 

[EdLongshanks]

As the one who got exactly a 33 on the MCAT. I'm in the middle here.

Firstly, I don't see how someone who did their best and could not score higher than a 22 on the MCAT could reasonably expect to succeed in Medical School. The MCAT is there to prove that the brain's basal metabolism rate is not ditch-digger level.

I like Mayo's philosophy here (Hmmm, could it be that's because I'm interviewing there next week. Nahh.) In the early 1900's one of the Mayo brothers wrote home during medical school and said that 10% of his medical class did not belong in medical school because they lacked the necessary mental acuity.

On the other hand, it's fairly well established that an extremely high MCAT score does not correlate to a high USMLE Step 1 score. So getting those stellar 39's and 40's doesn't add a lot (did I mention that I didn't do that well?)

So a school should pay attention to the MCAT and then, after a certain level is reached, stop paying attention to it - like Mayo does (did I mention I'm going to interview there next week?)

So an ideal applicant would have a solid MCAT, a solid GPA, and some solid EC's - kind of like me. Wow, my philosophy says that I'm an ideal applicant, isn't that nice of my philosophy to be so correct?

 

[avatarftw]

Dude, a 33 on the MCAT is pretty baller. Its about an 88 percentile. I wouldn't call that "in the middle" or a grade of somebody that "didn't do that well."

I don't know. I know some engineers that couldn't get into the 30s and they are very smart. Its generally accepted that engineering is one of (if not the most) the most difficult majors in undergrad and requires a lot of brains.

As the one who got exactly a 33 on the MCAT. I'm in the middle here.

Firstly, I don't see how someone who did their best and could not score higher than a 22 on the MCAT could reasonably expect to succeed in Medical School. The MCAT is there to prove that the brain's basal metabolism rate is not ditch-digger level.

I like Mayo's philosophy here (Hmmm, could it be that's because I'm interviewing there next week. Nahh.) In the early 1900's one of the Mayo brothers wrote home during medical school and said that 10% of his medical class did not belong in medical school because they lacked the necessary mental acuity.

On the other hand, it's fairly well established that an extremely high MCAT score does not correlate to a high USMLE Step 1 score. So getting those stellar 39's and 40's doesn't add a lot (did I mention that I didn't do that well?)

So a school should pay attention to the MCAT and then, after a certain level is reached, stop paying attention to it - like Mayo does (did I mention I'm going to interview there next week?)

So an ideal applicant would have a solid MCAT, a solid GPA, and some solid EC's - kind of like me. Wow, my philosophy says that I'm an ideal applicant, isn't that nice of my philosophy to be so correct?