Can a 2.0 make it into med school?

[TallTexanChick]

I had two major setbacks in college and am just now graduating (next May) and will wind up having exactly a 2.0 GPA. Horrible, I know, but it's not for lack of intelligence. I've finally gotten past the bad things that have happened and am focused on school again. I still want to go into medicine (peds oncology), but I'm not sure HOW to go about getting in the door since my GPA is so laughable.

Should I get a SECOND bachelor's degree? Should I get a BSN in nursing to show I can handle the course load? I really really want to get into med school and for the past year have gotten all A's and B's in school, but I'm not sure how to undo the past grade damage. I could really use some pointers here! I need a direction hehe.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Total180]

I would look into taking advantage of the DO grade replacement policy. If you retake any class you got a C or lower in, your gpa will rise pretty quickly. They still see all of your grades, and you will have to have a good explanation for all of the past bad grades, but it is definitely doable. If you are looking for only MD schools it will be very very hard to raise the gpa since they just add on to all your other courses, and since you likely have a lot of credit hours it will be very difficult. I don't think you need to get another degree, and definitely don't get a BSN to prove anything because it won't. They are really different types of classes, and adcoms will question you on why you got a BSN when you wanted to be a doctor in the first place. So my advice would be to retake all of the classes you got bad grades in, and maybe try and take a few upper level science classes to prove that you can do well in the harder sciences the first time around...to prove that the lower grades were really just the product of whatever situation you were in, and that the problem is now resolved. good luck.

 

[BigBoosting]

You can go the DO route which does grade forgiveness (i.e., have an F in a class, retake and get an A, the F doesn't count anymore). Get a good GPA that way and then get a good MCAT, you should be ok. Especially with a good upward trend.

Just speaking from personal experience on the MD route, it's very hard to beat a low GPA. I'd have to go for another 2-3 years getting all A's to get over a 3.0, and that's with me having a 2.6 AO and 2.8 BCPM. I have a ton of credits though.

So really I guess you have to ask yourself, how bad do you want it?

I guess you don't necessarily have to get a second bachelor's. You can just take all post-bacc classes, but again, if you're in for a few years you might as well pick up another Bachelor's. Keep in mind any graduate classes would not count towards your undergrad GPA, and a 2.0 undergrad mixed with a 4.0 graduate GPA, doesn't really undo much damage.

Whatever you do, kill the MCAT

 

[namethatsmell]

I had two major setbacks in college and am just now graduating (next May) and will wind up having exactly a 2.0 GPA. Horrible, I know, but it's not for lack of intelligence. I've finally gotten past the bad things that have happened and am focused on school again. I still want to go into medicine (peds oncology), but I'm not sure HOW to go about getting in the door since my GPA is so laughable.

Should I get a SECOND bachelor's degree? Should I get a BSN in nursing to show I can handle the course load? I really really want to get into med school and for the past year have gotten all A's and B's in school, but I'm not sure how to undo the past grade damage. I could really use some pointers here! I need a direction hehe.

Quick/easy answer: nope, you won't get in with a 2.0 (to a US school)

...but if you're 1000% committed to getting into a US med school...here we go...

You may have a shotIF:
1) you apply and gain entry to a postbac/SMP program: there's an entire forum on SDN about what these are, which program might be ideal for best you, etc. go there now.
2) you completely destroy the program you enter (as in all As)
3) you completely destroy the MCAT
4) you are willing to apply to every school that you think might possibly be willing to go to (you'll probably need to apply to as many MD and DO schools as you can afford)
5) have an extremely compelling explanation for the low undergrad GPA as you will be asked about this during the application process.
6) come off as being charismatic (or at least normal) in your interviews as you'll really need to sell yourself (without doing too much selling...therein lies the rub)

Lots of people have gotten into med school with low undergrad GPAs--use the search function on here and you'll find tons of stories and threads. Remember that there are no guarantees...you could do all of the above and still not get in (tough to say that but there it is). Personally, I think that if you can do all of the above you stand a chance of getting in...but you'd better do some strong soul searching to see if all this is worth it. You'll be spending a decent amount of money and time (figure at least 2-3 years after you graduate) just to have a shot at med school.

I really wish you the best of luck, and if this is what you truly want I really hope you get it. If you decide this is not what you HAVE to do to be happy, you can rest assured that there are tons of worthy things to do with one's life that ain't medicine.

 

[MCAT guy]

Quick/easy answer: nope, you won't get in with a 2.0 (to a US school)

...but if you're 1000% committed to getting into a US med school...here we go...

You may have a shotIF:
1) you apply and gain entry to a postbac/SMP program: there's an entire forum on SDN about what these are, which program might be ideal for best you, etc. go there now.
2) you completely destroy the program you enter (as in all As)
3) you completely destroy the MCAT
4) you are willing to apply to every school that you think might possibly be willing to go to (you'll probably need to apply to as many MD and DO schools as you can afford)
5) have an extremely compelling explanation for the low undergrad GPA as you will be asked about this during the application process.
6) come off as being charismatic (or at least normal) in your interviews as you'll really need to sell yourself (without doing too much selling...therein lies the rub)

Lots of people have gotten into med school with low undergrad GPAs--use the search function on here and you'll find tons of stories and threads. Remember that there are no guarantees...you could do all of the above and still not get in (tough to say that but there it is). Personally, I think that if you can do all of the above you stand a chance of getting in...but you'd better do some strong soul searching to see if all this is worth it. You'll be spending a decent amount of money and time (figure at least 2-3 years after you graduate) just to have a shot at med school.

I really wish you the best of luck, and if this is what you truly want I really hope you get it. If you decide this is not what you HAVE to do to be happy, you can rest assured that there are tons of worthy things to do with one's life that ain't medicine.

Dude, I'm struggling because of a GPA that isn't 3.5+.

Try PA or Nurse or something. Still medical field. Planning on DESTROYING the MCAT is not a good plan because not everyone can do that, even with all the will in the world.

DO grade forgiveness works I guess.

 

[TallTexanChick]

You can go the DO route which does grade forgiveness (i.e., have an F in a class, retake and get an A, the F doesn't count anymore). Get a good GPA that way and then get a good MCAT, you should be ok. Especially with a good upward trend.

Just speaking from personal experience on the MD route, it's very hard to beat a low GPA. I'd have to go for another 2-3 years getting all A's to get over a 3.0, and that's with me having a 2.6 AO and 2.8 BCPM. I have a ton of credits though.

So really I guess you have to ask yourself, how bad do you want it?

I guess you don't necessarily have to get a second bachelor's. You can just take all post-bacc classes, but again, if you're in for a few years you might as well pick up another Bachelor's. Keep in mind any graduate classes would not count towards your undergrad GPA, and a 2.0 undergrad mixed with a 4.0 graduate GPA, doesn't really undo much damage.

Whatever you do, kill the MCAT

So even if you do badass in a master's degree and ace it, they STILL won't look past your undergrad GPA?

 

[TallTexanChick]

It really sounds like I'm screwed, but there's nothing else I'm interested in doing. I really want to work pediatric oncology.

 

[TallTexanChick]

from my university and instead either just keep taking classes to get to about a 2.5, or transfer to ANOTHER university without graduating and go to University of Houston or something and get all good grades THERE to where the GPA from those classes is what counts toward my graduating GPA? Would that work? Because I know when I took some summer school classes at a juco, the CREDITS transferred, but not the GPA, so I would think it'd work the same way going from one university to another. ??? Just a thought. I'm really grasping at straws here.

 

[BigBoosting]

The way AMCAS (MD) calculates grades, is that they consider every class you've ever taken at any school you've ever been to. So your AMCAS GPA is likely lower than what your college says your GPA is. It takes into account all classes, all colleges.

It really doesn't matter where you take more classes or if you transfer. You can graduate, and still take more classes and they're considered undergraduate GPA classes, post-baccalaureate. So any A's would improve your undergraduate GPA. If you do a Masters, those grades count toward Graduate GPA and will not change your undergraduate GPA at all. Once you get your undergrad GPA over a 3.2 or so, then consider a Master's / SMP if you want.

So really DO is your best option because of the grade forgiveness. It will take years to retake classes, take the pre-reqs, and take upper level science classes. And you need at least a 28 on the MCAT and great extracurriculars (shadowing, volunteering, etc.). I say 28 because by the time you apply, the avg DO MCAT stats most likely will have gone up.

What is your current major?

Just a little about me...I graduated 4 years ago with a sub-3.0 GPA. Since May 09 I've been taking post-bacc classes to better my GPA, along with the pre-reqs. My post-bacc GPA is a 3.84 Science, 4.0 non-Science. But a 3.16 cumulative undergrad GPA and 3.78 science undergrad GPA since I was a non-science major before. Good extracurriculars. 26 MCAT. And 4 interviews so far to DO schools. It IS possible. You just have to really work at it.

 

[TallTexanChick]

The way AMCAS (MD) calculates grades, is that they consider every class you've ever taken at any school you've ever been to. So your AMCAS GPA is likely lower than what your college says your GPA is. It takes into account all classes, all colleges.

It really doesn't matter where you take more classes or if you transfer. You can graduate, and still take more classes and they're considered undergraduate GPA classes, post-baccalaureate. So any A's would improve your undergraduate GPA. If you do a Masters, those grades count toward Graduate GPA and will not change your undergraduate GPA at all. Once you get your undergrad GPA over a 3.2 or so, then consider a Master's / SMP if you want.

So really DO is your best option because of the grade forgiveness. It will take years to retake classes, take the pre-reqs, and take upper level science classes. And you need at least a 28 on the MCAT and great extracurriculars (shadowing, volunteering, etc.). I say 28 because by the time you apply, the avg DO MCAT stats most likely will have gone up.

What is your current major?

Just a little about me...I graduated 4 years ago with a sub-3.0 GPA. Since May 09 I've been taking post-bacc classes to better my GPA, along with the pre-reqs. My post-bacc GPA is a 3.84 Science, 4.0 non-Science. But a 3.16 cumulative undergrad GPA and 3.78 science undergrad GPA since I was a non-science major before. Good extracurriculars. 26 MCAT. And 4 interviews so far to DO schools. It IS possible. You just have to really work at it.

Thanks for the info! So I could GRADUATE and take post-bachelor classes and that could still count towards my undergrad GPA? That's really cool. I didn't know that.

I started college back in 2000 and had my huge medical setback in 2005. My piss poor grades are mostly from '05-'07. It was literally like 15 hrs of F's straight down the board each semester. People kept trying to get me to take a break from school, but I was stubborn... hindsight.... oh man, hindsight....

That ten year Texas forgiveness rule sounds cool, but I'd have to wait several years for that to kick in lol. Some schools have grade forgiveness where if you get an F and then retake the course, they replace it, but I'm not sure if my school does that or not. I sent an email to my advisor asking about it and what our options are and stuff. She's really nice and helpful.

Grrrr I feel so stuck. I really screwed myself over. GRRR!!! I'm really determined to get there, though, even if I have to take the path of epic convolution to do it lol!

 

[TallTexanChick]

I suppose I COULD just stay in college until I get a 3.0 GPA since I've already gone for tenure. I wonder how many more hours I'd have to take though to do that.... TONS.

 

[vc7777]

Convolution is an obscure word. What is your major?

Sent from my SPH-M900 using Tapatalk

 

[TallTexanChick]

Convolution is an obscure word. What is your major?

Sent from my SPH-M900 using Tapatalk

Biomed/pre-med

Maybe I could just apply to Baylor Med and tell them I'm a board certified idiot. Board certification carries a lot of weight I hear.

 

[vc7777]

Note too that amcas doesn't forgive F's and you must report the f even if your school forgives it.

Convolution is an obscure word. What is your major?

Sent from my SPH-M900 using Tapatalk

Sent from my SPH-M900 using Tapatalk

 

[vc7777]

Hmmm board certification isn't enough...you need to pass the professional idiocy exam (PI)...which of course requires you to wait until you have been practicing as an independent idiot for at least three years...M900 using Tapatalk

 

[vc7777]

As in biomed ENGINEERING?

Biomed/pre-med

Maybe I could just apply to Baylor Med and tell them I'm a board certified idiot. Board certification carries a lot of weight I hear.

Sent from my SPH-M900 using Tapatalk

 

[TallTexanChick]

As in biomed ENGINEERING?



Sent from my SPH-M900 using Tapatalk

No no no lol. It's just biomedical science. At A&M, it's the main major for all pre-meds, pre-vets, pre-dentals, etc.

 

[vc7777]

Aaah OK. Gotcha
Well I was hoping it wasnt a science intensive degree, mainly. That makes it that much more difficult. I dont think there is an easy answer. If pedonc is the only thing for you...it'll be a long journey.

Sent from my SPH-M900 using Tapatalk

 

[EdLongshanks]

It really sounds like I'm screwed, but there's nothing else I'm interested in doing. I really want to work pediatric oncology.

You not only are insistent on going to medical school - you also are determined to get one of the most competitive specialties that require a fellowship?

If you dedicate your life to this and nothing else, you can reach your goal 13 years from now (4 years GPA repair, 4 years med school, 3 years residency 2 years fellowship). You also have the probability of not getting your preferred residency and ending up in family practice 11 years from now Do you want to pay that price? Your choice.

 

[jackieMD2007]

According to table 24, there were 254 applicants from 2007-2009 that applied with a GPA of 2.0 to 2.19. The acceptance rate was 2.4%, with the majority of people being accepted having MCAT 30-35.

Not looking good my friend.

 

[MCAT guy]

You not only are insistent on going to medical school - you also are determined to get one of the most competitive specialties that require a fellowship?

If you dedicate your life to this and nothing else, you can reach your goal 13 years from now (4 years GPA repair, 4 years med school, 3 years residency 2 years fellowship). You also have the probability of not getting your preferred residency and ending up in family practice 11 years from now Do you want to pay that price? Your choice.

I.e. NOT WORTH IT.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

People think DO grade replacement means that DO schools won't look at your old grades. How do you think it will look when you have had to retake at least 1/3 of all your classes to get a semi-decent GPA?

The short and simple answer is that the OP has no chance in the US. Neither MD nor DO, unless she waits 10 years and does the Texas grade forgiveness and applies to Texas schools only. Caribbean at the big 4 is out of the question too. She'll need at least a 2.6 to be considered at Saba.

hate to say this, but this is right on. i asked a DO school i would like to attend what the grade replacement policy was, and if they can clarify and they said we really don't look at apps with more than 3 or 4 retakes. To raise a 2.0 to even a 3.2 you are going to need to retake a hell of a lot of classes. now this was one of the better DO schools but i can imagine that many retakes is going to look bad at all DO schools. sorry, but with a 2.0 you have no chance.

 

[vc7777]

Sorry, I can't articulate my posts late night on my smartphone:

First, regarding Peds oncology: many people change their minds when they get into medical school. The fact that Peds onc is appealing to the OP is admirable. It's a tough line of work in many regards. Yes it's competitive, but you guys shouldn't hold that against her. If she DOES get into medical school, it's a clean-start - she will have an equal shot as anyone else. In fact, if she turns this boat around, I'd say she might have the momentum to do peds onc when she gets into med school. Besides, what she finds interesting about peds onc is probably common among several specialties - so she will have options.

Second, I am not foolish enough to say "OP, you have no chance". If this is really the only profession you can see yourself doing, OP, then I am not going to pee on your parade. It sounds like you understand the uphill battle ahead of you. It will take a very long time - no matter how you slice it.

Only comment on people's posts above is that a master's program of any kind will not affect your undergrad GPA. Only an additional bachelors or post-bacc program will. Be careful, because if you do an SMP, your 2.0 will be possibly the pre-interview (if not pre-secondary) "non-starter" for admissions.

If you haven't already, root around, using the search function on the nontrad forum. There is plenty of good advice here.

Best of luck,

vc7777

 

[eablackwell]

Im not going to sugarcoat it, this is an abysmal situation. However, if you're dead set on this and willing to put in the years Ed suggests, it's doable. I finished my freshman year with a 2.0. I completed undergrad with around a 2.9. After 3 years of grade repair with all As and 1 B I have just over a 3.3 cgpa, thousands of hours of community service, and 3 years teaching experience. I received an MD interview in august and I'm hopeful.

If you are 100% dedicated and are perfectly okay with extremely delayed gratification, it can be done. If you're 99% dedicated, you likely shouldn't do it.

 

[addo]

I suppose I COULD just stay in college until I get a 3.0 GPA since I've already gone for tenure. I wonder how many more hours I'd have to take though to do that.... TONS.

Yea, you would have to take way too many hours to get your GPA up. Mainly because for every F that you got, you have to get 3 As just to average a 3.0, 4 As to average a 3.2....8 for a 3.55, etc... Do you see how incredibly frustrating raising a GPA can be? Furthermore, you dont only have 1 F, you have whole semesters of them, so we are talking about years of GPA repair for everyone of those bad semesters that you had.

I am not saying you cant do it, but like people have already said you need DO grade replacement, a very compelling reason of why you got semester loads of Fs, and time, plenty of it. By the way if you go the DO route, it will be harder for you to specialize in the specific area that you want.

 

[TallTexanChick]

Yea, you would have to take way too many hours to get your GPA up. Mainly because for every F that you got, you have to get 3 As just to average a 3.0, 4 As to average a 3.2....8 for a 3.55, etc... Do you see how incredibly frustrating raising a GPA can be? Furthermore, you dont only have 1 F, you have whole semesters of them, so we are talking about years of GPA repair for everyone of those bad semesters that you had.

I am not saying you cant do it, but like people have already said you need DO grade replacement, a very compelling reason of why you got semester loads of Fs, and time, plenty of it. By the way if you go the DO route, it will be harder for you to specialize in the specific area that you want.

Does being a DO limit you? Do MD's look down on it? I'm not really familiar with the DO program, but I do know that we have one school in Texas.

 

[TallTexanChick]

Also, if you START in a DO program and get great grades, can you transfer into an MD program? After say your MS1 year?

 

[vc7777]

Also, if you START in a DO program and get great grades, can you transfer into an MD program? After say your MS1 year?

No, you can't transfer. Yes, unfortunately, some MDs look down upon them. However, the short answer is:

The DO education is the same. What a student takes away from that education is what is variable.

DOs can compete for many of the same residency positions as MDs.

EDIT: Here one datum: at The Clinic, the #4 hospital in the country, we are DO friendly. In fact, we have an endowed chair of Osteopathic Research and Education (obviously held by a DO).

 

[addo]

Does being a DO limit you? Do MD's look down on it? I'm not really familiar with the DO program, but I do know that we have one school in Texas.

TCOM, the Texas DO school is very good, and you can be sure you will get a quality education there, however DOs do have a harder time getting into the more competitive residencies. I am not sure how competitive peds oncology is, but I am sure one would have an easier time with an MD.

 

[EdLongshanks]

TCOM, the Texas DO school is very good, and you can be sure you will get a quality education there, however DOs do have a harder time getting into the more competitive residencies. I am not sure how competitive peds oncology is, but I am sure one would have an easier time with an MD.

There may be a correlation/causation error here. If you look only at the stats from allopathic residencies and see that the DO ratio of Applied/Hired it might be true to say that they have a more difficult time. But this isn't the final story. DO's match exclusively to osteopathic residencies and for several reasons, DO's could have have somewhat lower board scores than MD's (just like they have lower MCAT's)

I'm not sure if some has done an statistical analysis of residencies and removed all of the biasing factors, but if they did, I suspect that the prejudice against DO's is actually pretty low.

If a student went into an osteopathic school with the intention of a competitive residency; he didn't allow the primary care evangelism of the school to affect him; he actively sought out competitive clerkship opportunities; he studied harder for the MD boards than he did for the DO ones; and he applied in areas of the country where DO's are well-established. Then I would be surprised if the letters after his name would hold him back very much.

But, I'm pre-med. What do I know.

 

[TallTexanChick]

No, you can't transfer. Yes, unfortunately, some MDs look down upon them. However, the short answer is:

The DO education is the same. What a student takes away from that education is what is variable.

DOs can compete for many of the same residency positions as MDs.

EDIT: Here one datum: at The Clinic, the #4 hospital in the country, we are DO friendly. In fact, we have an endowed chair of Osteopathic Research and Education (obviously held by a DO).

Cool!

 

[TallTexanChick]

I had kind of an idea. You guys said that Texas has a 10 year grade forgiveness rule.

My worst grades are from 2005 and '06.

What if I were to go ahead and graduate in May and then go on to get a BSN in nursing and go work peds at MD Anderson in nursing to get my feet wet experience wise work the field. I could then at a different university in Houston work on a SECOND bachelor's degree and also take the pre-med prereq's again and THEN apply to an MD program with THAT degree with the good GPA and great pre-req scores, etc.

And make sure I don't graduate with THAT degree until about 2015-2016 so that by then that degree overshadows the 'old' degree, but still write an explanation in my application for the low grades in the old degree. But then at least they'd see a good bachelor's degree with over a 3.0 GPA and recent taking of pre-req's with good scores, etc.

Could THAT maybe work?

 

[vc7777]

So, like I said any way you slice it, it'll be a long road. I returned to medical school 12 years after graduating and I think it is fair to say many people mature a whole bunch after graduation - including myself. I would say I am a better person in every regard (although if u knew 20 y/o vc7777 you would say that's no great feat).

After 10 years, in 2015-ish, you should be able to demonstrate that you are a changed person. However crushing the mcat and your gpa both will still be important.

Sent from my SPH-M900 using Tapatalk

 

[TallTexanChick]

So, like I said any way you slice it, it'll be a long road. I returned to medical school 12 years after graduating and I think it is fair to say many people mature a whole bunch after graduation - including myself. I would say I am a better person in every regard (although if u knew 20 y/o vc7777 you would say that's no great feat).

After 10 years, in 2015-ish, you should be able to demonstrate that you are a changed person. However crushing the mcat and your gpa both will still be important.

Sent from my SPH-M900 using Tapatalk

Thanks. I just got off the phone with the TMDSAS and asked them about my situation and they said my best best would be to just keep taking pre-req's NOW and redoing coursework and that whether or not I get a second bachelor's doesn't matter because it's the GPA of all the coursework they're going to look at. And she said to THEN apply under the Texas Academic Fresh Start provision and it'd wave all of the old stuff and she said if I wait and continue getting A's and B's with current coursework, then I actually have a good shot of getting in if I do reasonably well on my MCAT.

That's kind of cool about the old grades. Just POOF, they're gone. Now I just need to find a job to do in healthcare in the mean time that's fun and gives me some good experience while I count down the next few years to my fresh start.

 

[TallTexanChick]

Actually, you can transfer. The idea that in academia MD looks down on DO is not very accurate. Go see big schools like UC Davis and Irvine and you'll see that they have DO faculty. As for transfer, I know for a fact that at least one MD program in Puerto Rico takes DO students and been told that some Ohio schools take both Caribbean MD and DO if they get the space in 3rd year.

I'm getting sick of this MD over DO elitism going on. If you can't see how DO will become bigger and bigger in the next 10-20 years, you have a huge blind spot. DO went from 15 or so schools 10-15 years ago to 29 campuses and at least 4 or 5 in the works. They project having double the number of graduates in the next 10 years. As MD becomes tougher and tougher to get into, students will, in larger numbers, join the DO ranks than ever before.

Interesting! I'd heard of DO's before, but I always thought they were like a chiropractor or something. The -osteo thing threw me off lol. It sounds though like they can do the same thing as an MD. I'd like to still shoot for the MD if I can, but beggars can't be choosy. If DO is the only way I can get in, then DO I shall be!

 

[TallTexanChick]

I can see where your confusion came from. The Chiropractor degree is "DC," so it makes it easier to confuse.

Trust me, if you do a DO degree and an MD residence, by the time you'll be an attending, it will have almost no stigma anymore. The only people as MD that still hold the stigma strongly are the older generation that will keep retiring.

We should just give them all some orthopedic shoes and a comfy rocking chair and put them out to pasture.

 

[vc7777]

Actually, you can transfer.

Fair enough. I should have articulated that one shouldn't plan on attending a particular school in hopes of transferring down the road. It isn't very common. Let's not sugar coat this: If the OP's goal is to become an MD, not just a doctor, then this isn't an advisable "plan". In fact, I would hope someone doesn't accept a DO seat with the premeditated intention of scooting out after their DO school invests time and money into that person's basic education.

The idea that in academia MD looks down on DO is not very accurate. Go see big schools like UC Davis and Irvine and you'll see that they have DO faculty.

Was this not what I argued in my post? My hospital/school is very DO friendly. If you are itching for a fight on this, my pre-medical friend, you are going to be disappointed.

As for transfer, I know for a fact that at least one MD program in Puerto Rico takes DO students and been told that some Ohio schools take both Caribbean MD and DO if they get the space in 3rd year.

This is an interesting tidbit, and I want to believe you, but I'd have to see a citation before I commit this to memory as factual.

I'm getting sick of this MD over DO elitism going on. If you can't see how DO will become bigger and bigger in the next 10-20 years, you have a huge blind spot. DO went from 15 or so schools 10-15 years ago to 29 campuses and at least 4 or 5 in the works. They project having double the number of graduates in the next 10 years. As MD becomes tougher and tougher to get into, students will, in larger numbers, join the DO ranks than ever before.

Not quite sure where this comes from again. If I recall I wrote:

Yes, unfortunately, some MDs look down upon them.

I too think the elitism will die away given time. I was trying to be honest for the OP's sake - don't lump me in with everyone else. Over 50% of Americans think the US is a strict democracy too. But does stating that mere fact make me ignorant too?

One of my best friends, for the record, is a deferred MSU COM medical student, who will graduate in 2015 when I do. I cannot wait for the day I can call him "my colleague". I know he will be a damn good doctor.

The OP has a downward trend with 120 credits at 2.0. Caribbean and Texas grade replacement are the only viable options.

Once again, never say never. I would moderate this by saying it is a better or even best option.

Interesting! I'd heard of DO's before, but I always thought they were like a chiropractor or something. The -osteo thing threw me off lol. It sounds though like they can do the same thing as an MD. I'd like to still shoot for the MD if I can, but beggars can't be choosy. If DO is the only way I can get in, then DO I shall be!

I can see where your confusion came from. The Chiropractor degree is "DC," so it makes it easier to confuse.

Trust me, if you do a DO degree and an MD residence, by the time you'll be an attending, it will have almost no stigma anymore. The only people as MD that still hold the stigma strongly are the older generation that will keep retiring.

Right, so we are in agreement?

 

[EdLongshanks]

Trust me, if you do a DO degree and an MD residence, by the time you'll be an attending, it will have almost no stigma anymore. The only people as MD that still hold the stigma strongly are the older generation that will keep retiring.

I'm not sure that I agree. As long as DO schools have MCAT scores 5 or more points below everyone else, then there's going to be a perception that DO's have a little less horsepower under the skull cap.

I know that higher MCAT does not equal a better doctor, but the perception exists and will exist until someone with lower grades cannot get into a DO school even though they have no MD chance.

 

[vc7777]

Let's not highjack her thread, folks. There are plenty of md vs. Do threads around. OP, good luck with your journey. I wish u the best of luck!

Sent from my SPH-M900 using Tapatalk

 

[cabinbuilder]

I'm not sure that I agree. As long as DO schools have MCAT scores 5 or more points below everyone else, then there's going to be a perception that DO's have a little less horsepower under the skull cap.

I know that higher MCAT does not equal a better doctor, but the perception exists and will exist until someone with lower grades cannot get into a DO school even though they have no MD chance.

Let me just say that a good test taker does NOT make a better doctor. DO schools give the indivdual an opportunity to be a physician by looking at the entire package, maturity, etc rather than deciding on a persons capability based on numbers on a piece of paper. I went to medical school with many brilliant students who looked great on paper (yes this is DO school) who chose to go DO with high MCAT's and High GPA"s when they had their pick of schools. I have also seen many MD's who should never be talking with patients because their people skills are crap and should be housed away somewhere.

I have never been bashed for being a DO. In fact, patients and other docs alike seek me out because I am great at OMT and can fix your back, neck without automatically reaching for the Rx pad. It's a great tool to possess if you do it well. Not everyone is helped by OMT but for those who need a little adjustment expecially after car accidents, falls, etc it can seem wondrous.

 

[MCAT guy]

I'm not sure that I agree. As long as DO schools have MCAT scores 5 or more points below everyone else, then there's going to be a perception that DO's have a little less horsepower under the skull cap.

I know that higher MCAT does not equal a better doctor, but the perception exists and will exist until someone with lower grades cannot get into a DO school even though they have no MD chance.

only pre-meds and especially SDN pre-meds know and think about this stuff. Besides, once you're in medical school and a guy with a 33 MCAT is dominating a guy with a 41, you will begin to understand that MCAT mental horsepower doesn't mean much.

 

[EdLongshanks]

only pre-meds and especially SDN pre-meds know and think about this stuff. Besides, once you're in medical school and a guy with a 33 MCAT is dominating a guy with a 41, you will begin to understand that MCAT mental horsepower doesn't mean much.

I hope that's true. I got a 33 on the MCAT.

 

[sideways]

I hope that's true. I got a 33 on the MCAT.

Longshanks got a 33!!!!!

 

[EdLongshanks]

Longshanks got a 33!!!!!

Yeah, it's been on my profile, a click away, for several months. It includes a 9 on the BS, about which I bow my head in shame.

 

[EdLongshanks]

DO schools don't look solely for good grades. They take a holistic approach. But even then, scores for admittance are going up and the USMLE is a much better to use for comparison than the MCAT. If I see the DO students doing as well in the USMLE as MD students, I will begin to wonder what's in the DO education that they can grab a student with lower MCAT and make them comparable to MD.

I think we can all agree about the USMLE. I'd be surprised if DO students can ever do as well, however, for other reasons than mental horsepower. They've also got to study for their own exam, and that's going to hurt.

 

[vc7777]

 

[EdLongshanks]

Sorry all, I'm the thread pirate. Our eggplanted friend is right. This dead horse is in someone else's pasture.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

another thing to consider is that is has been talked about extensively here. nursing majors are not well accepted into medical school. here is one of MANY threads after a simple search.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=748441&highlight=nursing+major+med+school

it may hurt you.

 

[sideways]

You've been given A LOT of misinformation in this thread. To start: becoming a ped onc is one of the least competitive specialties in medicine. Also, retaking >4 courses doesn't preclude you from DO programs. Just make sure you get A's.

 

[MCAT guy]