Can any OMFS residents share their residency experience

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
H

Hoopin4dayz

Full Member
5+ Year Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2016
Messages
14
Reaction score
0
if you guys can shed some light on your day to day schedule that'd be awesome. I'm sure many of us are very intrigued! Thank you for your time!
Members don't see this ad.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Obviously there's alot of learning going on as well so how do you guys manage your time to read and practice new surgical skills?
 
Utdarsenal said:
Those are the same amount of hours I was putting in as a dental student..
Click to expand...

Per your post (HOW HARD IS DENTAL SCHOOL "I start school at 7 am and i'm usually there for classes until about 3 pm"). I don't doubt the hours in dental school are long, I agree with you-- I used to wake up at 5:30a, go to school, finish up at 5 (or 8 if we had night clinic), and overall just grind it out; however residency is a very different animal. Dental school is a lot of auto-pilot... lab work, restorative, etc, and I don't doubt residency will one day become that as well but for now, it's a huge learning curve and constant pressure to want to do well for yourself, your patients, and the rest of the "team".

Residency is difficult. The hours you put in at the hospital often make it hard to stay on top of reading when you're home, but the beauty is you push yourself to the limits in terms of stamina, patience and competence. It's been a very fun process so far. Now, in medical school, the pace has changed up quite drastically. Waking up at 8am, attending a few hours of lectures, and basically just studying.

I wouldn't change it for the world. The hardest part I think is looking at friends who were my classmates out there making money, buying nice things, and really enjoying their lives. They get jealous of some of the stuff that I do, and I get jealous of some of the stuff that they do. The grass is always greener...
 
Last edited:
Message from another resident:

"Residency is long and horrible. I worked (in the hospital, not counting study time) at least 70 hours/week nearly all of residency and was there 80 or more/week the first year). I have slept (or tried to sleep) in the hospital more nights than I can count. It is every bit as much of a commitment as any other surgical specialty. No other dental residency has anywhere near the time commitment or just general hell. None are even close. Unless you love it, you wouldn't make it through.

I'd usually get home around 10pm and then read for another hour or two...essentially until I fell asleep. Then I'd wake up at 5am, or earlier if something came into the ED and I was on call. That was virtually every day for over a year. Even in chief year I'm there at least from 6am-6pm and frequently longer than that. I also usually worked 6am-2pm or so on weekends or longer if there was a trauma headed to the OR. At this point, I'm only there on the weekend if there's a new trauma or infection, but that's still frequent enough. I worked and was usually in the OR every thanksgiving and Christmas Day the last 3 years (played Christmas music in the OR while draining a really bad Lidwig's angina last Christmas)."
 
Most everyone has roughly the same in-hospital hours, at least while on OMFS service and most surgical services. Rounds before cases, surgery all day, wrap up some things after cases are done, go home, eat, read, sleep. Do it all again. Call and weekend responsibilities are variable and can definitely hours. Probably 60-100 hours a week at the hospital. Responsibilities never end when you leave the hospital though and that can add a lot of time. Reading, presentations, various busy work you'd rather do at home than the hospital.

The good thing is that after the very, very steep learning curve, things do start to get "easier". Sure, hours don't change much. But surviving in a hospital, running a service, and handling a myriad of tasks become more routine. Frees up space in your brain for a little sanity and some relaxation, even if hours aren't much different. Sure, taking call will probably always suck, draining pus and fixing your 1000th mandible on a Saturday morning will like never be fun, but once expectations are adjusted, it is definitely bearable. And if you like the people you work with, then hanging out in the OR with them and cutting on faces can be *gasp* a lot of fun.
 
I should also point out that there is a big difference in the workload based on how many residents you're working with; I go to one of the bigger programs in the country and my hours are probably significantly better than if I went somewhere that there were only 2 residents/year.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Wow thank you for the responses! Very eye opening. Regarding the procedures, do you learn as you go in residency or need to prepare ahead of time? How many presentations do you typically present in a week?
 
Roy Williams said:
Message from another resident:

"Residency is long and horrible. I worked (in the hospital, not counting study time) at least 70 hours/week nearly all of residency and was there 80 or more/week the first year). I have slept (or tried to sleep) in the hospital more nights than I can count. It is every bit as much of a commitment as any other surgical specialty. No other dental residency has anywhere near the time commitment or just general hell. None are even close. Unless you love it, you wouldn't make it through.

I'd usually get home around 10pm and then read for another hour or two...essentially until I fell asleep. Then I'd wake up at 5am, or earlier if something came into the ED and I was on call. That was virtually every day for over a year. Even in chief year I'm there at least from 6am-6pm and frequently longer than that. I also usually worked 6am-2pm or so on weekends or longer if there was a trauma headed to the OR. At this point, I'm only there on the weekend if there's a new trauma or infection, but that's still frequent enough. I worked and was usually in the OR every thanksgiving and Christmas Day the last 3 years (played Christmas music in the OR while draining a really bad Lidwig's angina last Christmas)."
Click to expand...
IF, and I mean if, I ever got to the point where I was to apply to OS with competitive stats, my wife would not support those hours... GP it is!
 
Residents that have contributed thus far, do any of you have children? If so, how do you do it? If not, do you think you could do it with one?
 
A lot of you have spoken about the learning curve. Can someone go a bit more in depth into how you learn these procedures? I can't imagine you're doing Lefort's on the first day. How does your GS rotation work? Considering you come from dental school I supposed most haven't had as much experience working in a hospital/OR setting. How is this taught? On the fly or do you get a crash course?
 
You don't do very much operating until you are a more senior resident. You are on-call as soon as you begin, must learn how to use the EHR of the hospital (electronic health record), must be able to manage simple infections/trauma, and run the outpatient clinic, etc. Each program is different. Most programs will have a "buddy-call" system in place for the beginning, where two interns and/or an intern and upper-level take call together so you can have more exposure/support. Most learning is done on-the-fly style.

General surgery is highly dependent on the program-- there is no standard structure amongst different programs. (edit: amongst different programs.)
 
Last edited:
avangusva said:
You don't do very much operating until you are a more senior resident. You are on-call as soon as you begin, must learn how to use the EHR of the hospital (electronic health record), must be able to manage simple infections/trauma, and run the outpatient clinic, etc. Each program is different. Most programs will have a "buddy-call" system in place for the beginning, where two interns and/or an intern and upper-level take call together so you can have more exposure/support. Most learning is done on-the-fly style.

General surgery is highly dependent on the program-- there is no set structure, rotations, or even length of time requirements.
Click to expand...

Jesus....This is terrifying. What happens when you have no idea what's going on but you're the one on call???
 
avangusva said:
You don't do very much operating until you are a more senior resident. You are on-call as soon as you begin, must learn how to use the EHR of the hospital (electronic health record), must be able to manage simple infections/trauma, and run the outpatient clinic, etc. Each program is different. Most programs will have a "buddy-call" system in place for the beginning, where two interns and/or an intern and upper-level take call together so you can have more exposure/support. Most learning is done on-the-fly style.

General surgery is highly dependent on the program-- there is no set structure, rotations, or even length of time requirements.
Click to expand...
So is the "learning" more just you kind of learn things from observing as you progress through the years, or is there studying and book work as well? I just can't imagine becoming such an expert and knowledgeable simply from watching. Unless of course the other residents and surgeons are kind of teaching you as they work.
 
Franklo said:
Jesus....This is terrifying. What happens when you have no idea what's going on but you're the one on call???
Click to expand...
You ALWAYS have support of your upper level residents and attendings, if need be.

I have never been in a position where I was uncomfortable-- if I am, I never hesitate to reach out to the 2nd or 3rd call resident. There is no shame in being inexperienced or uncomfortable, at least at my program.
 
Last edited:
Roy Williams said:
So is the "learning" more just you kind of learn things from observing as you progress through the years, or is there studying and book work as well? I just can't imagine becoming such an expert and knowledgeable simply from watching. Unless of course the other residents and surgeons are kind of teaching you as they work.
Click to expand...

There is didactic work that is also implemented into the residency, weekly conferences, presentations, etc. There are journal clubs where you review literature, there are in-service OMSITE exams which require you to study, etc.

In short, there is a didactic component to the residency that is rigorous and requires the more formal "learning" many are familiar with. In the end, a surgeon will learn by doing. You cannot learn how to operate out of a text-book. You learn from observing, being present for complications, managing said complications, understanding what to expect and how to react when you run into the unexpected. The reason the residency is so long, time consuming and difficult is because when you complete your training you will become the "expert".
 
avangusva said:
There is didactic work that is also implemented into the residency, weekly conferences, presentations, etc. There are journal clubs where you review literature, there are in-service OMSITE exams which require you to study, etc.

In short, there is a didactic component to the residency that is rigorous and requires the more formal "learning" many are familiar with. In the end, a surgeon will learn by doing. You cannot learn how to operate out of a text-book. You learn from observing, being present for complications, managing said complications, understanding what to expect and how to react when you run into the unexpected. The reason the residency is so long, time consuming and difficult is because when you complete your training you will become the "expert".
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply. I realize you're probably busy so no rush getting back to me quickly, but I was wondering (and other people may appreciate it too, not sure) if you would be able to kind of outline how a typical resident's day looks in each of the different resident years including what types of work/learning are associated with each year. I know each program is different, but this may shed some light in a general sense. I've not been able to find any information like this when researching, so if you'd be able to do this I'd be really grateful.
 
Roy Williams said:
Thanks for the reply. I realize you're probably busy so no rush getting back to me quickly, but I was wondering (and other people may appreciate it too, not sure) if you would be able to kind of outline how a typical resident's day looks in each of the different resident years including what types of work/learning are associated with each year. I know each program is different, but this may shed some light in a general sense. I've not been able to find any information like this when researching, so if you'd be able to do this I'd be really grateful.
Click to expand...

Probably because it is so dependent on the program and even month-to-month. Each resident rotates through different hospitals (at most large programs) and each rotation requires different levels of attention.

I'll do my best to summarize what it was like for our intern year:

Intern:
on call-- Finish updating patient list, rounding on in-patients (which consists of physically going to see the patient, see how they are progressing/regressing, irrigate drains, change dressings), and updating orders (all before rounds which are usually around 0530). This process depends on how busy you were the night before and how many in-patients you have on your service. This usually takes between 30-90 minutes.

not on call-- Just show up to rounds at around 0530. If you're the incoming resident on call, usually you will be tasked to pre-op the first cases in the AM which is pretty straight forward. You go and mark the surgical site, confirm the patient understand proposed treatment, and confirm you have surgical consent. You speak with the family, etc.

After rounding, grab breakfast if you can and head to clinic or the OR, depending on where you're needed.

Clinic-- dentoalveolar (point and pull), pre and post op follow-ups, taking pre/post op photos, etc. Can get pretty busy. We schedule between 40-60 patients per day, usually have two residents seeing these patients.

OR-- As an intern in the OR, you basically help prepare the patient, get the imaging loaded up on the screen, have everything ready for your upper level residents. Once the case begins, you usually scrub in as an assistant and will occasionally "cut" depending on the upper level resident and/or attending. Between cases, you will pre-op the next case and let things run smoothly.

Finish clinic and/or OR around 1600-1700, depending on the day. If you're not on call, you go home and do what you like (read, eat, sleep, etc). If you're on call, try to grab a bite and begin updating the list and managing in-patients. Take care of consults through the night until the next morning.

I'd say that was a pretty typical day.

Didactics in first year: Weekly didactic conferences where we get lectured on general OMS and/or oral pathology and/or anesthesia. Weekly presentations by one intern to the rest of the group, usually pretty informal and also largely based on learning topic deemed by faculty member. Monthly trauma conference where we discuss the radiographs and surgical cases from the month. Monthly journal club where upper level residents present relevant articles on a topic as deemed by the chief. Random assigned learning topics if deemed necessary by upper levels/attendings (these usually come in the form of... "maybe you should look that up").

Medical school:
Wake up at 0800, lecture from 0900-1200, eat and study/chill. A few times a week there are other afternoon activities, and an exam/quiz once every other week or so. A lot of free time!
 
avangusva said:
Probably because it is so dependent on the program and even month-to-month. Each resident rotates through different hospitals (at most large programs) and each rotation requires different levels of attention.

I'll do my best to summarize what it was like for our intern year:

Intern:
on call-- Finish updating patient list, rounding on in-patients (which consists of physically going to see the patient, see how they are progressing/regressing, irrigate drains, change dressings), and updating orders (all before rounds which are usually around 0530). This process depends on how busy you were the night before and how many in-patients you have on your service. This usually takes between 30-90 minutes.

not on call-- Just show up to rounds at around 0530. If you're the incoming resident on call, usually you will be tasked to pre-op the first cases in the AM which is pretty straight forward. You go and mark the surgical site, confirm the patient understand proposed treatment, and confirm you have surgical consent. You speak with the family, etc.

After rounding, grab breakfast if you can and head to clinic or the OR, depending on where you're needed.

Clinic-- dentoalveolar (point and pull), pre and post op follow-ups, taking pre/post op photos, etc. Can get pretty busy. We schedule between 40-60 patients per day, usually have two residents seeing these patients.

OR-- As an intern in the OR, you basically help prepare the patient, get the imaging loaded up on the screen, have everything ready for your upper level residents. Once the case begins, you usually scrub in as an assistant and will occasionally "cut" depending on the upper level resident and/or attending. Between cases, you will pre-op the next case and let things run smoothly.

Finish clinic and/or OR around 1600-1700, depending on the day. If you're not on call, you go home and do what you like (read, eat, sleep, etc). If you're on call, try to grab a bite and begin updating the list and managing in-patients. Take care of consults through the night until the next morning.

I'd say that was a pretty typical day.

Didactics in first year: Weekly didactic conferences where we get lectured on general OMS and/or oral pathology and/or anesthesia. Weekly presentations by one intern to the rest of the group, usually pretty informal and also largely based on learning topic deemed by faculty member. Monthly trauma conference where we discuss the radiographs and surgical cases from the month. Monthly journal club where upper level residents present relevant articles on a topic as deemed by the chief. Random assigned learning topics if deemed necessary by upper levels/attendings (these usually come in the form of... "maybe you should look that up").

Medical school:
Wake up at 0800, lecture from 0900-1200, eat and study/chill. A few times a week there are other afternoon activities, and an exam/quiz once every other week or so. A lot of free time!
Click to expand...
Thanks for the breakdown! Very helpful! Typically how many days per week are you on call at night vs the day? And how many hours is a shift?
 
vellnueve said:
Clearly people do. I don't know what you want to know. I don't have kids.
Click to expand...
Bro, all I'm asking is if you think you could do just as well during residency if you had a family. Would you want to work that much if you had a little ones at home?
 
Kareful said:
Bro, all I'm asking is if you think you could do just as well during residency if you had a family. Would you want to work that much if you had a little ones at home?
Click to expand...

To be honest my guess is that for someone who is willing to sacrifice 4-6 years of their life they've already discussed and agreed to sacrificing being with family for those years as well. Granted this isn't something that must be easy to accept. One of the guys I know going into residency next year told me he had a long discussion with his wife and made sure she understood what it meant before he decided to pursue a residency position.
 
Roy Williams said:
Thanks for the breakdown! Very helpful! Typically how many days per week are you on call at night vs the day? And how many hours is a shift?
Click to expand...

Call is 24 hrs, 0700 to 0700, usually q3 days. At times, it will be q2 or q4. You usually get one weekend off a month. There is no "post call". For example, you come to the hospital 0500 on Monday, preop the patients and round at 0530. Go to clinic or OR, while taking consults when you get paged. You stay in house until the next morning where you pre-round, update the list, etc. Then you round with the team at 0530 on Tuesday AM. Once you finish rounding, you go to clinic or OR and finish around 1400. That can mean you are at work for 36 hours straight.
 
avangusva said:
Call is 24 hrs, 0700 to 0700, usually q3 days. At times, it will be q2 or q4. You usually get one weekend off a month. There is no "post call". For example, you come to the hospital 0500 on Monday, preop the patients and round at 0530. Go to clinic or OR, while taking consults when you get paged. You stay in house until the next morning where you pre-round, update the list, etc. Then you round with the team at 0530 on Tuesday AM. Once you finish rounding, you go to clinic or OR and finish around 1400. That can mean you are at work for 36 hours straight.
Click to expand...

What do you do to stay awake and keep sharp?
 
Franklo said:
What do you do to stay awake and keep sharp?
Click to expand...

Most nights you will still get some sleep. The worst is when you get fragmented sleep like 1 hr, then a consult that takes 45 minutes (with note writing), then sleep for another 30 minutes, followed by another consult, etc. Caffeine is your best friend on busy nights and the following day. The best sleep of your life comes after one of those 36-straight hour shifts! Some consults like complicated facial lacerations can take a long time to prepare the supplies and actually do the procedure, but they can be pretty rewarding.

The most annoying thing is having drunk patients in the ED with facial fractures and having to put something like a bridal wire to primarily stabilize the fracture before we can get them into the OR. Or having a non-compliant kid who has a large dental abscess.
 
avangusva said:
Most nights you will still get some sleep. The worst is when you get fragmented sleep like 1 hr, then a consult that takes 45 minutes (with note writing), then sleep for another 30 minutes, followed by another consult, etc. Caffeine is your best friend on busy nights and the following day. The best sleep of your life comes after one of those 36-straight hour shifts! Some consults like complicated facial lacerations can take a long time to prepare the supplies and actually do the procedure, but they can be pretty rewarding.

The most annoying thing is having drunk patients in the ED with facial fractures and having to put something like a bridal wire to primarily stabilize the fracture before we can get them into the OR. Or having a non-compliant kid who has a large dental abscess.
Click to expand...
Do you ever have q1 (and do any programs that you know of)?

Favorite and least favorite thing about residency so far?
 
For someone starting this July, what reading/other prep would you recommend?
 
Roy Williams said:
Do you ever have q1 (and do any programs that you know of)?

Favorite and least favorite thing about residency so far?
Click to expand...

On tooth call (not trauma/face), yes Q1 has happened multiple times and is relatively reasonable. Some nights you don't get woken up. Some nights you get wrecked. It just depends. If multiple people need a certain holiday or weekend off, someone will pick up the slack. 2nd call (5th year) is usually q1 or q2, and third call (chief) is on for their duration on the rotation (like 3 months). 2nd call residents might have to come in a couple times a week during the first few months of summer as they begin to trust the interns they hardly even need to come in. Chief and attending only really come in if something needs to go to the OR stat.

Favorite part has been being a part of this team and really working hard not out of fear of doing something wrong and getting yelled at but because you want to make your upper levels proud. It's highly dependent on the program but that's definitely my favorite. Least favorite is the lull of EHR and charting/paper work that seems endless, but obviously necessary.
 
Puff- said:
For someone starting this July, what reading/other prep would you recommend?
Click to expand...

I'd recommend reviewing anatomy, see if you can find Zide/Ellis approaches to the facial skeleton and begin reading about some of the most commonly used approaches and their anatomy/complications, etc. I would, if you don't already, try and get comfortable with dentoalveolar in your dental school clinic since you will probably have some component of a point-and-pull clinic in residency. Otherwise, enjoy some time off, find housing, etc. You will learn on the go and be prepared to make mistakes and move on.
 
vellnueve said:
Starting what?
Click to expand...
Residency

avangusva said:
I'd recommend reviewing anatomy, see if you can find Zide/Ellis approaches to the facial skeleton and begin reading about some of the most commonly used approaches and their anatomy/complications, etc. I would, if you don't already, try and get comfortable with dentoalveolar in your dental school clinic since you will probably have some component of a point-and-pull clinic in residency. Otherwise, enjoy some time off, find housing, etc. You will learn on the go and be prepared to make mistakes and move on.
Click to expand...
Cool, thanks.
 
Lol, sorry, it's so easy to piss people off without even really trying. Notice my post was in 2012- That was my first year. Every other year in dental school had me there from 7 am - 7 pm, and after 7 pm, having to do doing lab work/patient calling for the following days. Within those hours only 3 hours were for actual classes.

Not trying to bring anyone down with that, just making comparisons. When people tell me "be scared" I try thinking it shouldn't be that bad, excuse my contrarian thinking. If my 7 am - 7 pm was full of surgery, it might've been more interesting than dealing with prostho everyday.
 
Utdarsenal said:
Lol, sorry, it's so easy to piss people off without even really trying. Notice my post was in 2012- That was my first year. Every other year in dental school had me there from 7 am - 7 pm, and after 7 pm, having to do doing lab work/patient calling for the following days. Within those hours only 3 hours were for actual classes.

Not trying to bring anyone down with that, just making comparisons. When people tell me "be scared" I try thinking it shouldn't be that bad, excuse my contrarian thinking. If my 7 am - 7 pm was full of surgery, it might've been more interesting than dealing with prostho everyday.
Click to expand...

Dude.

You have current residents and OMSs in this thread telling you it doesn't compare at all.

Are you that thick that you think you know better?
 
vellnueve said:
Dude.

You have current residents and OMSs in this thread telling you it doesn't compare at all.

Are you that thick that you think you know better?
Click to expand...

Nope, just found it really funny someone went out of their time to go through my post history (5 years back) to try to make a statement.

I greatly respect you guys and keep on doing your thing.
 
Some placed you the lower level resident will take call for the entire weekend. So you show up friday morning, and remain on call until monday morning and then still work clinic on monday. Its nice because it usually affords you two - weekends off a month. But that weekend you are on call can F'ing suck! I have many where i barely slept all weekend.
 
PChemGrad said:
Some placed you the lower level resident will take call for the entire weekend. So you show up friday morning, and remain on call until monday morning and then still work clinic on monday. Its nice because it usually affords you two - weekends off a month. But that weekend you are on call can F'ing suck! I have many where i barely slept all weekend.
Click to expand...

The good ole' black and gold weekends
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

0
Any USC OMFS Residents here?
Replies
1
Views
1K
The Kube of Kubes
The Kube of Kubes
L
OMFS residents that can’t moonlight - job ideas?
Replies
10
Views
2K
toothnumber32
toothnumber32
Dentstudent1457
OMFS Residency Salary
Replies
5
Views
2K
mmmmdonut
M
D
Private Practice oriented OMFS Residency programs?
Replies
30
Views
3K
aaaaa
A
carabelliscusp
OMFS anesthesia experience
Replies
14
Views
3K
Contach
C
Top