Can anyone do surgery?

[Enough]

Even medical school has changed to benefit the clock-watching bunch interested in surgery.

When I was in med school the surgical rotation was really busy. We took call every third night. Stayed post call. Was called on by the house staff to do everything and anything that felt appropriate (putting in central lines, chest tubes, etc.). All this and we had a shelf exam (is that what they're still called) at the end along with an oral.

NOW the med students from the same school (affiliated with my community program) take call once per week, and almost all elect for a Thursday night call to get a three day weekend with Friday off, aren't allowed to do scut work, aren't allowed to do lines, insert tubes, and they've scrapped the oral.

No wonder General Surgery more popular today. Everyone thinks it's a cakewalk based on some lousy third-year rotation.

Hopefully the subinternships still retain that bit of torture that I remember...

It is about time they made it easier. With the current training model – We will produce a lot of poorly trained surgeon with poor work ethics. This is what the population of this county is will to pay less and less for. It is not about quality patient care anymore.

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[RinaBe]

I understand that we want our surgeons to be committed to the field. We don't want someone who will elect to hand a patient over to a senior resident because they're technically allowed to go home in 10 minutes. We don't want surgeons who refuse to work one minute over the 80 hour limit, or take one patient over their cap (if one exists). At the same time, shouldn't there be somewhere one can draw the line? If you've taken on a new patient and already stayed over your limit, and another patient comes in, is it that bad if you want to go home to be with your family? Exceptional situations surely come up, where it just makes sense to stay and help that patient, so I completely understand your concern over students and residents who strictly follow the clock. However, given some exceptions, does the surgeon, or any specialist, have to be so endlessly self-sacrificing? Isn't there a point where you can say you've gone above and beyond your call of duty, where it's ok to go home and spend some time on yourself?

 

[Winged Scapula]

I belong to the newer generation of surgeons and I DO think its ok to want to go home and spend time with your family. As a matter of fact, this was a bone of contention when I was an intern and was discussing my "motivation' with my PD. Apparently some of the faculty were a bit turned off that I didn't "live and breathe" surgery, that I actually considered my home life important. In the old days, the only good resident, was a single resident because you didn't have any reason to run home early.

But the difference is between wanting to go home and doing it without consideration for your patients or your fellow residents. There is nothing wrong with taking care of yourself, but there is too much emphasis on this to the detriment of others. You DO have to self-sacrifice sometimes...this may mean missing dinner because your patient isn't doing well, or if there is still work to do

Guess what? It prepares you for practice. As an attending, YOU are responsible for your patient. There is no one coming in at 7 pm to take your pages, cover your patients, etc. If you are in PP, there are no residents to take that 2 am call about low blood pressure, or to see the outpatient surgery case from earlier in the day who has returned to the ED. If people get used to signing out everything, to leaving at the stroke of 80 hours, and to expect others to clean up their messes, they are going to be in for a big suprise when it comes to residency and/or their career afterward.

BTW (cover your ears, I am about to yell):

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS AN 80 HOUR LIMIT. Work hours are advised to be an AVERAGE of 80 hours. That does not mean you cannot stay over 80 hours; that doesn't mean you can't work 100 hours. People do not seem to understand this.

 

[doc02]

No wonder General Surgery more popular today. Everyone thinks it's a cakewalk based on some lousy third-year rotation.

Yeah, our medical students pre-round on one patient, don't do scutwork, and spend the day watching operations (which could potentially stink if you hate the OR). When they're not in the OR, they just sit around the call room reading all day and they take call about once a week. And they still complain about the hours. I'm glad, though, because it's sort of fun watching them go into Surgery and look like they got hit by a train five times. LOL, I sez. LOL.

I think Gen surg is more popular today because of Grey's Anatomy. I'm not kidding.

Anyone who makes a career choice based on a television show, again, deserves whatever they get coming. They're like, "cool, when do I get to start having all the on-call sex? OMG, WHY IS MY PAGER GOING OFF?! This isn't fair!! Waaaahhh!" That would be pretty sweet to watch the mental breakdown.

 

[Castro Viejo]

Take heart. Many of the students who rotate through your hospital have probably requested to rotate their BECAUSE they have no interest in surgery, and heard that that rotation site is easy.

To some degree that's true, but the policies I've described are for the rotation throughout all sites (university hospital and the community affiliates).

 

[Castro Viejo]

Exceptional situations surely come up, where it just makes sense to stay and help that patient, so I completely understand your concern over students and residents who strictly follow the clock. However, given some exceptions, does the surgeon, or any specialist, have to be so endlessly self-sacrificing? Isn't there a point where you can say you've gone above and beyond your call of duty, where it's ok to go home and spend some time on yourself?

Absolutely. Perhaps I come off a bit strong regarding work hours, but I'm not the last one outta the hospital every night. On days off I also take them off (like today) and choose not to think about anything hospital-related, except for this thread.

My point is that the current model of training in medicine, and especially in surgery, seems to be creating people who view this as shift work. That no matter what, when the clock signals the end of their shift, they'll stop doing the chest compressions while the patient's in cardiac arrest, or they'll scrub out of a major case and leave the attending there to fend for himself against massive hemorrhage, or they'll leave just as a bunch of victims of the local gang war come rolling in with bullet holes all over.

Forget those extreme situations... I've had R4 residents call me and say, "I'm gonna be late tomorrow because I have to take my husband to the airport," or "I don't wanna do this laparotomy because I have dinner with these friends of mine." Screw that!

That's just plain wrong.

But hey, if it's time for you to leave and you've just admitted your last patient and one came (STABLE and NON CRITICAL) in just three minutes before the new guy takes over, then by all means, take off!

I do it too sometimes. If I get killed overnight and there's a gallbladder for the morning, I'll ask someone as qualified if they wouldn't mind doing it for me. That's just being safe. I can't operate (well) if I wanna pass out, now can I?

 

[smq123]

Yeah, our medical students pre-round on one patient, don't do scutwork, and spend the day watching operations (which could potentially stink if you hate the OR). When they're not in the OR, they just sit around the call room reading all day and they take call about once a week. And they still complain about the hours. I'm glad, though, because it's sort of fun watching them go into Surgery and look like they got hit by a train five times.

I knew a fourth year sub-I who would just go home at 10 AM if there were no cases in the OR. When someone suggested that he help the intern do floor work, he looked as if he'd just been hit in the face with a wiffle-ball bat. Then, he had trouble understanding "why" he didn't get honors and a glowing LOR for the sub-I.

I wonder how he'll do as an intern....

To some degree that's true, but the policies I've described are for the rotation throughout all sites (university hospital and the community affiliates).

That's crap, then. If even the university hospital is that lax, then they're not doing students any favors. I hope they realize that.

 

[doc02]

Yeah, but you guys don't know the half of it. When I say that, I don't mean those were the "bad" students. That's how the medical school wants it for everyone because they're concerned about Surgery's "malignant reputation." Which is great for medical school, but it's just setting them up for the killing fields.

 

[Blade28]

Yeah, but you guys don't know the half of it. When I say that, I don't mean those were the "bad" students. That's how the medical school wants it for everyone because they're concerned about Surgery's "malignant reputation." Which is great for medical school, but it's just setting them up for the killing fields.

That's how the surgery rotation here is set up - the clerkship coordinator babies the MS-IIIs, and I think the lowest grade they're allowed to receive is a "B+" - ridiculous!

 

[Castro Viejo]

That's how the surgery rotation here is set up - the clerkship coordinator babies the MS-IIIs, and I think the lowest grade they're allowed to receive is a "B+" - ridiculous!

The med students on my service know to try their best if they want a decent grade. I have no problem totally slamming them if they're the kind of slackers who come in when they want, scrub on cases, and either take off early or sit in the call room all day shooting the breeze with the ultra-hot PA students. Well, okay, maybe I can give them credit for some of the flirting.

But seriously, I'm not willing to sugar-coat what surgical residency is going to be like to these people. And I think the med schools are doing them a real disservice.

 

[Blade28]

I agree - it's similar here, where most med students cherry-pick a single case to scrub into each day, go and hide in the call room/lounge/library and read Recall when they have a chance, always demand a cafeteria breakfast and lunch, and whine about having to come in to round on Saturday (where they get to leave by 8 or 9 am).

 

[dynx]

Anyone who makes a career choice based on a television show, again, deserves whatever they get coming. They're like, "cool, when do I get to start having all the on-call sex? OMG, WHY IS MY PAGER GOING OFF?! This isn't fair!! Waaaahhh!" That would be pretty sweet to watch the mental breakdown.

It would be sweet to watch...right up untill that ***** has a mental breakdown on a call night and you're left doing q2 call while he sorts out his issues. Oh, and they cancel your days off to cover his schedule so you're five weeks straight in the hospital...oh yeah, now you get called in to explain why you're way, way, way over the 80 hours..."didn't we explain that its your responsibility to stay under?"

Then it becomes unsweet and starts to piss me off (hypothetically of course). If you go into surgery expecting it to be easy you're screwing yourself and EVERYONE around you over...so please...if you're a ******* ***** please stay out. If you've ever had a nervous breakdown...Please, stay out. If you even have an inkling that you can't hack it...stay the hell out. You're just pissing those of us off that actually want to do surgery.

 

[MossPoh]

Ah, if only 99% of SDN (especially the pre-meds) could follow this rule...our work would be a lot easier!

Premeds (and I am one) get offended when I say they need to look something up. Its kind of ridiculous.

By the way, I'm glad you mentioned the guitar thing because I was kind of curious about this since I play.

 

[Castro Viejo]

Premeds (and I am one) get offended when I say they need to look something up. Its kind of ridiculous.

And that's because of this culture of entitlement amongst the students heading into medicine now, and they one day grow up to be surgical interns who whine about not having enough "education time" to do well on the ABSITE.

Looking things up is an art and a skill that will come in handy as a med student. Get used to it.

 

[Blade28]

Premeds (and I am one) get offended when I say they need to look something up. Its kind of ridiculous.

By the way, I'm glad you mentioned the guitar thing because I was kind of curious about this since I play.

It is ridiculous. I agree.

Definitely keep up the guitar - I try to play most days, though often I'm too exhausted.

Looking things up is an art and a skill that will come in handy as a med student. Get used to it.

Amen!

 

[doc02]

It would be sweet to watch...right up untill that ***** has a mental breakdown on a call night and you're left doing q2 call while he sorts out his issues.

Note: it's usually a "she." Get your facts straight!

 

[MossPoh]

And that's because of this culture of entitlement amongst the students heading into medicine now, and they one day grow up to be surgical interns who whine about not having enough "education time" to do well on the ABSITE.

Looking things up is an art and a skill that will come in handy as a med student. Get used to it.

I've been use to it for sometime. The entitlement thing bothers me a lot. I was raised with a kind of old school educational viewpoint...my parents were never into that "you're a beautiful and unique snowflake" kind of stuff. I was actually told I'd be a failure if I didn't change my act. I'm already going crazy with these premeds...I actually heard one mention that her getting a B in organic chemistry will prevent her from columbia med. I just rolled my eyes and went back to actually learning.

Anyway, I agree it is a problem and it is a problem that is going to get worse. Everyone feels they are special and deserve rights, because they are that "beautiful and unique snowflake". I am a firm believer in taking people down a peg every now and then. (even myself)

And blade...I am about to buy my first 12 string...very excited.

 

[doc02]

I believe that everyone is a beautiful and unique snowflake. I also believe that I can destroy every snowflake. So far, it's working out well for me.

 

[-Goose-]

I've been use to it for sometime. The entitlement thing bothers me a lot. I was raised with a kind of old school educational viewpoint...my parents were never into that "you're a beautiful and unique snowflake" kind of stuff. I was actually told I'd be a failure if I didn't change my act. I'm already going crazy with these premeds...I actually heard one mention that her getting a B in organic chemistry will prevent her from columbia med. I just rolled my eyes and went back to actually learning.

Anyway, I agree it is a problem and it is a problem that is going to get worse. Everyone feels they are special and deserve rights, because they are that "beautiful and unique snowflake". I am a firm believer in taking people down a peg every now and then. (even myself)

And blade...I am about to buy my first 12 string...very excited.

Pre-meds are incredibly annoying. I lived in denial for 4 years that I was indeed "pre-med"

 

[Blade28]

I believe that everyone is a beautiful and unique snowflake. I also believe that I can destroy every snowflake. So far, it's working out well for me.

If I ever need a new sig, this is it.

 

[kakaboro]

great thread for premeds out there who are wondering about demanding specialties.

thanks guys

 

[MossPoh]

I believe that everyone is a beautiful and unique snowflake. I also believe that I can destroy every snowflake. So far, it's working out well for me.

I break out the blow dryer quite often. Same reason I love watching a highly ranked team get blown out of the water and the pictures of their fans during the game all heartbroken and spirit crushed. Am I heartless? Probably.

 

[Blade28]

I break out the blow dryer quite often. Same reason I love watching a highly ranked team get blown out of the water and the pictures of their fans during the game all heartbroken and spirit crushed. Am I heartless? Probably.

That's the reason I love watching Notre Dome lose every single week...

 

[Castro Viejo]

I break out the blow dryer quite often. Same reason I love watching a highly ranked team get blown out of the water and the pictures of their fans during the game all heartbroken and spirit crushed. Am I heartless? Probably.

You best not be talking about my New York Yankees.

 

[MossPoh]

You best not be talking about my New York Yankees.

I think after this MLB season I'd be referring to the Mets more than the yankees.




The yankees are up there too though.

 

[Castro Viejo]

I think after this MLB season I'd be referring to the Mets more than the yankees.




The yankees are up there too though.

Yeah...

For all you Mets fans: Too bad the baseball season doesn't end on September 14th, huh?

 

[Playmakur42]

.

 

[Cacaman]

Sure anyone can do surgery. Any trained monkey can do any repetitive action or procedure. Cut here, sew this and that, cut this, close and we're done.

 

[doc02]

Sure anyone can do surgery. Any trained monkey can do any repetitive action or procedure. Cut here, sew this and that, cut this, close and we're done.

You were upset by Castro Viejo's opinion of Vascular surgeons vs Interventional Cardiologists. That's fine and it's obvious how the Cardiologists would have a different opinion. After all, they're the ones doing the encroaching and we're the ones being encroached upon. Any time that happens, it's a guarantee there's going to be friction. If IR starts doing coronary stenting, I'm going to bet that Cardiologists will be like, "woah, woah, woah, hold on one sec!!" At the same time, if you feel we're just technicians, then stop calling us for help when you guys mess up. Our Vascular, CT, and General surgeons are busy enough, you should handle your own complications. Thanks.

 

[dynx]

you should handle your own complications. Thanks.

that would be impossible. While it's true that a trained monkey can opperate, you forget that IM docs are actually less gifted than a trainable monkey. You see, not all monkeys/doctors are created equal. Surgeons are like the trained monkey at the circus doing flips and riding the tricycle...IMs are like the monkeys at the zoo flinging **** at eachother.

 

[Cacaman]

IM docs are way more intellectual than surgeons and hey thats nothing bad. Surgeons are more mechanical, or gifted to make the previous poster happy. Roam around the hospital and you'll see that surgeons more than IM docs have personality issues, and that may be a reflection of their insecurities. Also, surgeons have this big shot attitude that I dont understand, of course not all of them are like this in fact its only a small fraction. IM docs on the other hand are more of a thinking kind of guys. Put that together with the skills of a cardiologist and you've got yourself a great doctor. Intellectual, smart, has procedural skill and volume, son you see that is why cardiology is so great. I'm not saying that surgery is not, but if cardiology is your thing then go for it and great because you would have chosen a specialty with great demand now and in the future.

 

[doc02]

IM docs are way more intellectual than surgeons and hey thats nothing bad.

That's actually only partly true. They definitely spend more time thinking about what's going on, but that's generally inherent to the issues they face versus those that Surgery faces. We spend a lot of time planning our operative approach, you spend a lot of time thinking about how you want to manage a disease process and generally our way occurs relatively rapidly and your way takes a long time (because you need to give the medication and wait to see the effect and then change it, etc). It doesn't mean we're not thinking about things, just not the things you think about. Ortho takes it to the extreme, if you want to think about it that way, and only cares about the operation. I personally have a guy with gout right now on top of his surgical problems and I don't really care about his gout. That's just the way it goes. On the other hand, expecting us to care as much about Medicine as you would make you sort of irrelevant, don't you think?

Roam around the hospital and you'll see that surgeons more than IM docs have personality issues, and that may be a reflection of their insecurities.

Surgeons definitely have personality issues, but not the way you make it. Like I tell our medical students, most of us just say whatever is on our minds because we don't have time to hem and haw. Either you get used to that or you can just think we're jerk-offs, either way works. But just because Medicine docs are more soft-spoken, doesn't mean they don't have personality issues, although it's to a lesser percentage than Surgeons, I'll grant you.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Are you trying to start an argument?

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=5812573#post5812573

Besides, if you're talking about physicians with personality problems, I think we can all agree, its psychiatrists who own that role.

BTW, what's up with calling yourself a fellow when it appears from previous posts that you are a medical student?

 

[Blade28]

You best not be talking about my New York Yankees.

You're a Yankee fan?! Oh man, there goes our friendship...

 

[Blade28]

IM docs are way more intellectual than surgeons and hey thats nothing bad. Surgeons are more mechanical, or gifted to make the previous poster happy. Roam around the hospital and you'll see that surgeons more than IM docs have personality issues, and that may be a reflection of their insecurities. Also, surgeons have this big shot attitude that I dont understand, of course not all of them are like this in fact its only a small fraction. IM docs on the other hand are more of a thinking kind of guys.

You probably shouldn't be making such sweeping over-generalizations until at least the end of your MS-III year, no?

 

[-Goose-]

IMs are like the monkeys at the zoo flinging **** at eachother.

 

[Castro Viejo]

You're a Yankee fan?! Oh man, there goes our friendship...

Who isn't? Don't tell me you root for the Sox. I HATE the SOX.

 

[Cheisu]

It's not just surgeons - my sister (who did internal med) would agree. She was astounded at how readily interns used the 80 hour week rule to get out of basic floor work. When my sister was a senior resident, an intern shoved a partially-completed consult form into my sister's hand, and said (over her shoulder), "He's down in the ER. I didn't finish working him up because I have to leave at 1 PM or else I'm going over 80 hours." My sister was so amazed she couldn't even move for a few seconds.



If you get a chance, read the intro to "Surgical recall." They talk about features of the "dream" surgery student. (Or at least they used to - I don't know if they still do.) Basically - don't complain, don't whine, don't cop an attitude to your superiors, and don't take things too personally.



One last feature of a good surgery student - look things up for yourself. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohs_surgery)

My goddess... I think it's depressing that there even is a time when you have to go home. I mean, what if you don't want to go? What if you want to keep working? I volunteer at the hospital right now. I'm 16 years old and my shift is from 4-8 and one time I actually got like yelled at because I worked until 10 pm, because I didn't want to leave yet and it was busy, because 10 pm is apparently too late. v.v WTF?

 

[Winged Scapula]

My goddess... I think it's depressing that there even is a time when you have to go home. I mean, what if you don't want to go? What if you want to keep working? I volunteer at the hospital right now. I'm 16 years old and my shift is from 4-8 and one time I actually got like yelled at because I worked until 10 pm, because I didn't want to leave yet and it was busy, because 10 pm is apparently too late. v.v WTF?

Oh believe me, after 30 hours on your feet, you'll pretty much want to go home.

Whether you do or not, depends on what's going on and your program, but even the most die-hard surgeon will admit he's pretty tired and a shower and a nap (in his own bed) sound better than another lap chole at that time.

 

[smq123]

My goddess... I think it's depressing that there even is a time when you have to go home. I mean, what if you don't want to go? What if you want to keep working? I volunteer at the hospital right now. I'm 16 years old and my shift is from 4-8 and one time I actually got like yelled at because I worked until 10 pm, because I didn't want to leave yet and it was busy, because 10 pm is apparently too late. v.v WTF?

• When you actually become a doctor, the chances are higher that you'll have good reasons to go home - spouses, boyfriends/girlfriends, children. You'll want to see them occasionally.
• It's really easy to say "I wanted to work another 2 hours" when you've only been working for 4 hours. Try saying "I wanted to work another 2 hours" when you're post call and have been working steadily for the past 20 hours.
• It's also really easy to say "What's wrong with working another 2 hours?" when you're only volunteering a few times a week. When you have to do it day after day, and 6 days a week, it's a totally different story.

Consider this: on a surgery rotation in the wintertime, the resident will get to the hospital at 5:45 AM, when it is still dark outside. The resident will then spend the rest of the day in the OR, which rarely have windows. He doesn't do sign-out rounds until all cases are done, which might not be until 6:30 PM. When he leaves the hospital, it is still dark outside. He's spent the entire day indoors, and hasn't seen the sun. When you do this day after day for 6 days, it tends to take a lot out of you.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Or consider that you're doing it (the long hours) 7 days a week. Again, remember the 1 day off in 7 is an average; you are not required to have a day off EVERY week.

Even if you were, you might not get it at some programs.

 

[doc02]

People who make posts talking about how they'd not want to go home and all AND THEN add that they're hospital volunteers need to think a little before they hit that "Submit Reply" button. I was talking to a girl who was shadowing an attending once and she was in college and wanted to go to medical school and "be a surgeon." I was telling her about the hours and she goes, "you're complaining about working 90 hours/week? That would be no problem for me. I mean, if you think about it, you go to class and study and that's about 90 hours/week, right? So I'm basically working as much as you right now!" LOL, my opinion of her dropped to "complete and total idiot." Here's a word of advice to people who aren't actually doing a surgery residency: don't talk about how easy it is until you finish it. Then you can get back to the rest of us.

 

[Blade28]

Who isn't? Don't tell me you root for the Sox. I HATE the SOX.

Hey how's that whole Torre/A-Rod/Clemens/Posada/Pettitte situation working out for you?

 

[Castro Viejo]

Hey how's that whole Torre/A-Rod/Clemens/Posada/Pettitte situation working out for you?

A-Rod is a loser. The Yankees are too smart to play Scott Boras' game, in my opinion. So long as he's not picked up by the Sox, I don't really care where he ends up.

I'd read somewhere that Damon might go to the ChiSox.

Pettitte is retiring. Screw him. And you know what that means? His "friend" Clemens is gonna retire with him. I think they're heading up to Massachusetts for some R&R at some B&B out on the Cape.

Posada I hope stays. I think he will. Did you read somewhere that he wasn't?

The Yanks have an awesome pitching staff being developed. Hughes, Chamberlain, Wang, and that other guy are gonna be awesome in about 3-5 years I think. Joba's did great last season (other than the Canadian Soldiers incident against Cleveland).

I wonder about Mariano though... I don't think he's quite as effective as he used to be, but he certainly is still one of the best closers in the game.

Oh, by the way, I forget: who do you root for?

 

[SLUser11]

Sure anyone can do surgery. Any trained monkey can do any repetitive action or procedure. Cut here, sew this and that, cut this, close and we're done.

If Cacaman and Rapid aren't the same guy, then they were cut from the same crappy mold....I'd check their IP addresses though....


Regardless, I don't like blanket statement that say that you shouldn't perform procedures if you can't deal with all of the complications. This can be extrapolated in too many directions.

What if a nurse damages a urethra placing a foley. Does that mean that all foleys should be placed by urologists?

What if a general surgeon puts a veress needle through the Aorta. Surely laparoscopy shouldn't be limited to vascular surgeons.....

 

[doc02]

Regardless, I don't like blanket statement that say that you shouldn't perform procedures if you can't deal with all of the complications.

That's clearly not what is being said. We're saying that physicians shouldn't be all hot to trot to do procedures that they can generate a lot of cash on and then scream and run away the instant things get hairy and a complication arises. A nurse can mess up a patient, but she's not billing for any of it or trying to profit off it. And rather than trying to INCREASE the amount she can do, most nurses try to pawn off their actual duties to residents (including Foley placement, ironically). GI is quite content to take money doing colonoscopies and also quite content to ship the person to Surgery once they perf the bowel.

 

[Blade28]

A-Rod is a loser.

OK, I take it back, we're friends again.

Joba's did great last season (other than the Canadian Soldiers incident against Cleveland).

I wonder about Mariano though... I don't think he's quite as effective as he used to be, but he certainly is still one of the best closers in the game.

Oh, by the way, I forget: who do you root for?

(1) Yeah, except for when he "bugged out" when it mattered.

(2) Yes, I agree, and also one of the only guys left who still wears #42. (Good trivia!)

(3) Well considering I have a couple of framed Boston Globe front pages in my apartment (from 10/28/04 and 10/29/07)...

It's really easy to say "I wanted to work another 2 hours" when you've only been working for 4 hours. Try saying "I wanted to work another 2 hours" when you're post call and have been working steadily for the past 20 hours.

I know what you're trying to say, but 20 hours? That's not a long shift.

 

[Castro Viejo]

(3) Well considering I have a couple of framed Boston Globe front pages in my apartment (from 10/28/04 and 10/29/07)...

Ugh... You're frickin' kidding me.

Why? How? I thought you were from out West or something.

I won't hold it against you. Boston sucks and you know it.

 

[Blade28]

Ugh... You're frickin' kidding me.

Why? How? I thought you were from out West or something.

I won't hold it against you. Boston sucks and you know it.

Yeah well I've spent a lot of time in Boston for the past 11+ years. Even lived there for a while (including in October 2004! ).

So besides the fact that you support the second-worst team in the history of sports (the Lakers being #1), we're cool.

 

[Castro Viejo]

Yeah well I've spent a lot of time in Boston for the past 11+ years. Even lived there for a while (including in October 2004! ).

So besides the fact that you support the second-worst team in the history of sports (the Lakers being #1), we're cool.

The New York Yankees are the most successful sports franchise in the North America. Twenty-six world championships, thirty-nine American League Pennants, countless Hall of Famers... OK, so they've choked every year since the 2000 World Series, but who else goes to the postseason as often?

HINT: It ain't the Red Sux.

BTW: I went up to Boston this past weekend to visit my brother and I urinated on a Fenway wall. That's dedication to a rivalry!