Can anyone give me some advice about Nursing!

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UTHSCSAHopeful

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Hello all, thanks for stopping by. I am currently doing my prereqs for the nursing program. I eventually want to get my BSN and apply for med school. However, I'm not sure if I should get the Associates in Nursing in which I would still be an RN or should I go straight for the BSN. My reason for wanting to do the Associates is because I have no help paying for school and I don't want to accumalate much debt before I apply for med school (if I get there). Working as an RN while I am getting my BSN and my prereqs for med school would really help. Can anyone help? I apologize for the length. Thanks in advance.
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If you're going to go to med school, you're going to incur a lot of debt, whether you're an RN first or not. If you don't actually want to be a nurse, don't bother with a BSN, although in reality many ADN programs take just as long as BSN programs, so you may not save much there. :laugh: I guess you can do it this way if you want, but it's an awfully long and winding road to be worrying about two separate degrees when there's really only one things you want to do. If you want to be a doctor, be a doctor. Becoming a nurse first is just taking a veering path that slows you down.
 
Unless you want to work as an RN for a period of time - prior to med school - I would suggest looking at a degree that is more inline with pre-med pre-reqs.. your true cost is not incurring debt as an undergrad.. but if you are going to be an MD/DO your cost is getting your butt through school so you can have more future earning potential.... your daily wage THEN will make your current wage and loan look small.. I'd just make sure med is what you want.. if it is - then why do nursing when it is not a linear path to med school..
 
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You also will need a bachelors for med school; the BSN would make the most sense.

What about an alternative approach? The University of Texas-San Antonio has an excellent biology department and good chemistry profs. In-state tuition is very reasonable. A pre-med program there could be done with a lot of value for the money, and you can apply to the Health Science Center for med school on graduation. I went there from 2004-2006 for my prereqs and found it prepared me well for PA school....
 
Thank you all for the advice. I would love to be a Doctor. It's been a dream of mine for a really long time. I would love to be a Nurse as well. The reason for the BSN, honestly, is to cover my butt in case I cannot afford med school. I know that if I did not go to med school it will always be something that I regret but I guess I don't want to set myself up for failure (financially).
 
Hardly anyone can afford medical school. That's why there is a forum on financial aid and many threads about loans. :)
 
If I could do it all over again, I would get my ADN, then do a RN-BSN program while working. It would have saved me a lot of time and money. At least in my area, there are a few ADN programs that you can complete in 5-6 semesters (2 years).

Out of curiosity, what do you like about nursing and medicine? The two fields are drastically different. If being a doctor is what you want, you won't be happy being a RN.
 
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Just an FYI: I did my ADN first and am in my final semester of my BSN. It's a big, huge, giant, PITA and i wish I would have finished my BSN to begin with. That wasn't an option for me, but it's my advice anyway.
 
Okay, so take this advice for what it's worth, but if you really want to go to med school, then go to med school. If you want to be a nurse, then get a nursing degree. I wouldn't get your BSN/ADN or whatever as a backup, apply to med school without ever really having practiced nursing or given back to the nursing field and then become a physician.

The reason I'm advising you to consider this is that you're going going to be asked why you did nursing school at med school interviews, they're two completely different fields (as another poster noted), and you're taking up a spot in nursing school when nurses are desperately needed and without any real intention of practicing nursing= not very good.
 
silas2642 said:
and you're taking up a spot in nursing school when nurses are desperately needed and without any real intention of practicing nursing= not very good.
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:claps:Thank you! I could not have said it better myself!
 
So do you also think all those people who are RNs but not working in that capacity because they don't 'like' the job "=not very good?".... there are a lot of them out there.... I'd rather leave it to the individual ;)
 
I think a burnt out RN changing fields is different than someone who wants to take up a seat in a nursing school with no intention of being a nurse.
 
...And I am sure some people would say that it's not "right" to take up a spot in nursing school if you are setting your sights on PA school. After all, you have no intention of staying a nurse your whole career.
 
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... I have NEVER met a pre-RN or RN student that has not already planned that he or she is going to become a Doctor, NP, CRNA or PA in the near future....
that to takes away from an RN 'floor' slot - especially with the ability to enter direct entry NP programs or an alternative.. but that is how the system is designed. :)
 
berlfe03 said:
...And I am sure some people would say that it's not "right" to take up a spot in nursing school if you are setting your sights on PA school. After all, you have no intention of staying a nurse your whole career.
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I'm not 100% against staying in nursing. It depends on a lot of things. I may find that it is not feasible to go back to PA school depending on the way my life turns out at that point in time. Graduate school may not work out at all and I may stay working as an RN. I may decide to go back and become a CRNA or ACNP (if the DNP thing doesn't become the standard). PA would be my top choice, but it isn't a guaranteed thing. With the BSN, I will have a solid backup plan that I won't be unhappy about.

Also, pushing out more new grads is not going to alleviate the nursing shortage. There is a reason that so many bedside nurses are leaving. Those problems need to be fixed too.
 
Interesting. I know very few nursing students who are already planning to leave bedside nursing. Around here it takes a few years to become jaded and want to leave. :laugh: I don't know any nurses or nursing students who want to become physicians.
 
For all the times Laur has interrogated prospective nursing students and tried to talk them out of nursing, I find it interesting that she now says she is not necessarily opposed to a career in nursing, perhaps even pursing a mid-level career (gasp!) as a nurse.

I know what you mean FJ, but "kids" grow up so fast these days. You can go from "mildly irritated" to full blown cynicism in a matter of months now. :laugh:
 
Depending on the day, it can take me mere minutes. :p
 
foreverLaur said:
I think a burnt out RN changing fields is different than someone who wants to take up a seat in a nursing school with no intention of being a nurse.
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Out of curiosity, what do you like about nursing and medicine? The two fields are drastically different. If being a doctor is what you want, you won't be happy being a RN.
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Then explain why you are "taking up a spot in nursing" if you intend to be a PA?
The PA role is different from the RN role. You should have your BA in
Psychology by now so why bother with the BSN?
 
I suppose I have an interesting spin to add to this thread.

I am one of those guys who went to nursing as opposed to the traditional biology/chemistry degree AND wanted and PLANNED on going to medical school from the get go. I knew I wanted to go to medical school RIGHT when I signed up for nursing.

I have now worked as an ICU RN for 2 years while taking the BCPM courses, doing research, and volunteering.

Now... I decided to go to nursing because I knew I would get VALUABLE experience with patients and medicine. The experience I have gained has placed me years ahead of my peers who graduate with a BS in Biology and shadow an MD for a few months. I will be a MUCH better MD now that I have been an RN. For those of you who say nursing is SO different than medicine are a little off. Being in the ICU requires an a great deal of medical expertise and judgement. I want to go into medicine to EXPAND on my current skills so that I can be the best health care provider possible to the public and my patients. My scope of practice makes it very different than that of an MD, obviously, but many similarities exist. I, personally, MAKE myself learn more medicine at every occasion I get. I don't regret one bit going to get my BSN before going to medical school. It was my plan originally. Did the nursing professors and my peers make a grin when I told them this, yes... but all in all, one day I will be a much better practitioner than I would have been otherwise. Nursing turnover is so high these days that by me contributing to the nursing shortage and taking away from the physician shortage, isn't going to change anything... as long as you are doing what you feel is the best fit for you. IMO, I personally feel that mixing nursing and medicine would ideally produce the best practitioner by taking nursing's more people-oriented approach and mixing it with medicine's more disease based approach.
 
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bofeity said:
I suppose I have an interesting spin to add to this thread.

I am one of those guys who went to nursing as opposed to the traditional biology/chemistry degree AND wanted and PLANNED on going to medical school from the get go. I knew I wanted to go to medical school RIGHT when I signed up for nursing.

I have now worked as an ICU RN for 2 years while taking the BCPM courses, doing research, and volunteering.

Now... I decided to go to nursing because I knew I would get VALUABLE experience with patients and medicine. The experience I have gained has placed me years ahead of my peers who graduate with a BS in Biology and shadow an MD for a few months. I will be a MUCH better MD now that I have been an RN. For those of you who say nursing is SO different than medicine are a little off. Being in the ICU requires an a great deal of medical expertise and judgement. I want to go into medicine to EXPAND on my current skills so that I can be the best health care provider possible to the public and my patients. My scope of practice makes it very different than that of an MD, obviously, but many similarities exist. I, personally, MAKE myself learn more medicine at every occasion I get. I don't regret one bit going to get my BSN before going to medical school. It was my plan originally. Did the nursing professors and my peers make a grin when I told them this, yes... but all in all, one day I will be a much better practitioner than I would have been otherwise. Nursing turnover is so high these days that by me contributing to the nursing shortage and taking away from the physician shortage, isn't going to change anything... as long as you are doing what you feel is the best fit for you. IMO, I personally feel that mixing nursing and medicine would ideally produce the best practitioner by taking nursing's more people-oriented approach and mixing it with medicine's more disease based approach.
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Unless you want to specialize, why not just become a DNP?

I am having a hard time trying to decide between the MD and RN paths.
 
pdeco1 said:
Unless you want to specialize, why not just become a DNP?

I am having a hard time trying to decide between the MD and RN paths.
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I thought most DNPs specialized too? Aren't most current DNP programs designed for those who already hold a MSN?

MD and RN are as different as black and white...
 
No, most DNP programs are designed for those who hold a BSN. Generally, one picks a focus of the DNP program such as: adult, family, pediatrics, acute adult, women's health, geriatric. They do not have specialties such as cardiac or similar.
 
Farmer Jane said:
No, most DNP programs are designed for those who hold a BSN. Generally, one picks a focus of the DNP program such as: adult, family, pediatrics, acute adult, women's health, geriatric. They do not have specialties such as cardiac or similar.
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Interesting. Guess my small sample size of DNP programs must be the odd ones out!
 
True. But there are MANY DNP programs for those with an RN and a non-nursing bachelors... or even those without an RN license or nursing degree at all and a previous BS/BA...
There are also plenty of DNP programs that are "leader" or CNS focused... the truth is.. there seems to be a hodge podge w/o any centralized control. There is also the the DrNP which is NOT a DNP.. and just adds to the confusion. Needs more centralized control prior to implementation... standards and outcome are to loose... I'm a HUGE advocate for the idea of the DNP.. but not the methods currently in place.
 
pdeco1 said:
Unless you want to specialize, why not just become a DNP?

I am having a hard time trying to decide between the MD and RN paths.
Click to expand...

I do plan to specialize. Either way, compensation between an NP and MD in a GP role (i.e. clinic/office, etc.) is outrageous. I know many NP's in this position who are disgusted with the pay difference. Seeing the same amount of patients and performing the same services with nearly HALF of the compensation. If I am going to spend another 4 years or so in school, any school, I might as well as go for the one with the greatest return.
 
bofeity said:
I do plan to specialize. Either way, compensation between an NP and MD in a GP role (i.e. clinic/office, etc.) is outrageous. I know many NP's in this position who are disgusted with the pay difference. Seeing the same amount of patients and performing the same services with nearly HALF of the compensation. If I am going to spend another 4 years or so in school, any school, I might as well as go for the one with the greatest return.
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Great, then lets see them create actual outcomes that either deserve the increase in pay or they can go become doctors... disgust really doesn't mean anything... I could care less actually. Competence/successful outcomes is a different story.
 
4thelonghaul said:
Great, then lets see them create actual outcomes that either deserve the increase in pay or they can go become doctors... disgust really doesn't mean anything... I could care less actually. Competence/successful outcomes is a different story.
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Why would they be allowed to perform the SAME services to the SAME patients if they were thought to be so unsafe? It comes down to legislature and cost-savings for facilities. There are numerous studies conducted about NP's VS MD's and similar patient outcomes in the GP setting. We all know that anecdotal horror stories exist.
 
A nurse practitioner spends 6 years in school and takes one exam. They have approximately 600-800 clinical hours.

A doctor spends 8 years in school, has to take 4 exams, and spends 3-8 years in a residency.

I would sure as heck hope that a MD makes a lot more than a NP. A physician spends a lot more time in school/training and therefore has a lot more knowledge to treat patients with.
 
bofeity said:
Why would they be allowed to perform the SAME services to the SAME patients if they were thought to be so unsafe? It comes down to legislature and cost-savings for facilities. There are numerous studies conducted about NP's VS MD's and similar patient outcomes in the GP setting. We all know that anecdotal horror stories exist.
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Ok. If you read my post you would see it was a reply to a previous poster... referencing his/her quote and that NPs were 'disgusted' by the salary... the bottom line is emotion has nothing to do with salary... get some outcome data to correlate your competence with real world stuff and then prove your worth. I could care less about emotions or what patients you legislate to see etc.
 
A general surgeon I work with put himself through college and partly through medical school as a LPN. He got his LPN license in a highschool vo-tech program (I don't think they exist anymore) b/c he knew his family could not afford to help him with college expenses. He was the only male in his nursing class, back in 1970. Obviously, his nursing experince didn't add to his surgical skills but he says it made him more comfortable as a medical student, enabling him to stress less and concentrate more. He said he feels that his 6 years of nursing experience taught him a lot about how to deal with patients and families, etc. and being the only male in a group of 50 women helped him learn to deal with women better, personally and professionally. He is a terrific guy and the only doc I know still married to wife #1, lol, so something about it must have been valuable.

I don't think everyone needs to go the same way, there are many valuable experiences to be had in any chosen path. Nurses certainly get less scientific eduction in school and the professional practice is not often comparable, but nurses get a lot of interpersonal experience that physicans may not, and that experience may be significant to the student for any number of reasons.

I do not subscribe to the theory that someone going to nursing school with the intention of moving on to something else someday is wasting a spot. People grow, people change. If there is any profession that should understand and support the human continuum, it is nursing!
 
ChillyRN said:
He got his LPN license in a highschool vo-tech program (I don't think they exist anymore)
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I know of at least one that is still in existence. I wish they had more.
 
258881 said:
I do plan to specialize. Either way, compensation between an NP and MD in a GP role (i.e. clinic/office, etc.) is outrageous. I know many NP's in this position who are disgusted with the pay difference. Seeing the same amount of patients and performing the same services with nearly HALF of the compensation. If I am going to spend another 4 years or so in school, any school, I might as well as go for the one with the greatest return.
Click to expand...

Uhm, if you're not a doctor, you don't deserve to be compensated at the same rate as a doctor (and by doctor, I mean MD/DO).

Lest you be tempted to bash me as a nurse-hater, direct your eyes toward my avatar. Yup, RN.
 
fab4fan said:
Uhm, if you're not a doctor, you don't deserve to be compensated at the same rate as a doctor (and by doctor, I mean MD/DO).

Lest you be tempted to bash me as a nurse-hater, direct your eyes toward my avatar. Yup, RN.
Click to expand...

:thumbup:
 
pdeco1 said:
Unless you want to specialize, why not just become a DNP?

I am having a hard time trying to decide between the MD and RN paths.
Click to expand...

I meant DrNP as DNP. Sorry.

How does the role and responsibility of a DrNP differ from a MD/DO in a clinical setting?
 
pdeco1 said:
I meant DrNP as DNP. Sorry.

How does the role and responsibility of a DrNP differ from a MD/DO in a clinical setting?
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One went to 4 years medical school + 3-8 years residency while one went to 4 years of graduate nursing school. Big difference in knowledge and skills.

The role/responsibility difference depends upon the particular setting. In some clinical settings, the line isn't as clear as I think it should be.
 
Farmer Jane said:
If you're going to go to med school, you're going to incur a lot of debt, whether you're an RN first or not. If you don't actually want to be a nurse, don't bother with a BSN, although in reality many ADN programs take just as long as BSN programs, so you may not save much there. :laugh: I guess you can do it this way if you want, but it's an awfully long and winding road to be worrying about two separate degrees when there's really only one things you want to do. If you want to be a doctor, be a doctor. Becoming a nurse first is just taking a veering path that slows you down.
Click to expand...

You say that though this is my chosen route as well. I have spoken to many qualified Doctors and other healthcare professionals and they say that becoming a nurse first gives you a greater insight into the healthcare sector. I have also spoken to Medical students who were at first nurses and they seem a lot more down to earth and caring than those going straight into medicine
 
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