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Can I still do it? Any input would be GREATLY appreciated.

thatguyinschool

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May 7, 2019
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  1. Pre-Medical
    Hi all been a follower of this site for quite some time. I really appreciate all the time everyone dedicates giving advice and guiding us pre med students. I am currently wrapping up my junior year and am seeking advice. I constantly find myself discouraged and debating if I should continue pursuing my dream of becoming a physician, a pediatrician to be precise. But the way my grades are I feel like a lot of doors are closed and I am terrified I won't get in, inside of me tells me keep fighting push harder, and the other just tells me to give up. I messed up in the beginning and it is really biting me right now. Here are my stats.

    Bio 1 C-/ Bio 2 C (I intend in retaking Bio 1)
    Chem 1 F(was told by my advisor to take the the F and replace it won't appear on my transcript during my earlier years of school) Chem 2 currently taking really battling through currently at a B and have a final exam left (wish me luck).
    Physics 1 A- / Physics 2 B+
    I will be taking Orgo next semester and plan on fighting all the way thru and hope with hard work I can pull a B+

    I am a major in BS Biology, so I am currently taking Micro and intend on pulling a B (fingers crossed), I took the lab this semester as well, I did however withdraw I had 2 of my grandparents in the hospital at the same time, and it was hard to balance everything and did not want my GPA to be effected.

    I still intend to take Evolution, Genetics, Micro Lab, 4 Biology Electives (I had taken a science research class from SUNY Albany that got transferred and received an A-) and hope I can do well in those courses, B+/A-

    I am delaying my graduation by a year, because I intend to take extra classes to cover the pre-reqs for PA, PT, as well as Nursing. While I do this for this reason, I also do it to take have time to take some upper level science courses and intend on raising my GPA (currently cGPA is shy of 3.1), also if I delay it FAFSA will still cover it rather then graduate and come back.

    I will be taking courses like abnormal psych, psych stats, anatomy and physiology, planning on on taking either analytical chem (which will fulfill my minor in chemistry) or Biochem.

    I will be able to graduate fall of my 5th year, and plan on finishing up any of those extra classes during the spring semester.

    I currently am volunteering at a pediatric emergency room, I have shadowed a pediatrician as well (DO) and was able to get a letter of recommendation, and intend on following a (MD) pediatrician.

    I plan on volunteering at my nearest soup kitchen, and or house of worship. I also am debating whether or not it makes sense to receive an EMT certification or CPR certification (would really appreciate advice on whether I should go for it or not).

    I think this is everything I needed to mention, I know it is hard based to judge without an MCAT which I intend to take a prep course for, but I would really appreciate some insight and advice. I thank you in advance for your input and time for reading.

    Would really value your advice @Goro if its possible, thanks.

    PS: I also have a W in Calc 1 but replaced it w a B-, just wanted to mention.
     

    Isoval

    Year four and still haven't failed out yet, cool.
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      Alright...

      To answer your primary question, yes, you do still stand a chance at becoming a medical student one day. This is contingent on a couple of things that I'll briefly outline in a minute.

      1) Your advisor is an idiot. Grades do not replace on any of the medical school applications. Not TMDSAS, not AMCAS, not AACOMAS. Grades average. In other words, you're going to be lugging around that F everywhere you apply. All schools will see it, and it will be included in all grade calculations as a 0.0.
      1a) If you have not already, retake this class. You need - at minimum - a C in order to apply for medical school as it is a prerequisite for all medical schools. Frankly, though, seeing as you've already taken it, you need to do better than that. Pull an A, or at the very least, a B+.

      2) It goes without saying, but you need to do well in everything else that you do. As it stands now, you're not too far in the hole. A few more Cs or B-s, though, and it might become irrecoverable regardless of SMPs or other reinvention work. Already, you're looking at likely taking a gap year or two to fix some of the damage.
      2a) The legendary Goro will probably come by and drop a link, but you have some reinventing to do when you finish your undergraduate degree. This, in your case, probably means pursuing an SMP. I think there's too much damage on your transcript to warrant a post-bacc, unless the stars align and you pull like a 525 on your MCAT.

      3) Your ECs/EC plans look good. Keep doing what you're doing in that department. The shadowing always looks good, and having DO shadowing behind you can't hurt. Take that soup kitchen and run with it - service to those in need is highly valued everywhere you look, and take any other opportunities like that you can find without harming your academics.

      4) I would recommend against EMT certification. If an organization on campus ends up doing BLS-CPR training, take it. Otherwise, that's not worth your effort (purely from an application standpoint) either at this point.
      4a) I recommend against EMT certification because you're already...what, a sophomore? The class takes at least a semester to complete, and you've already shown a middling performance in your academic coursework. Adding an additional EMT class to that does not sound like a good idea. Instead, bank on your shadowing experiences and, if possible, pick up some clinical volunteering time. I think, in your current situation, you have no business as an EMT, scribe, or any other job that will eat up a lion's share of your time. BLS-CPR certification is useless for medical school applications. Not to say it's a useless skill to have, but if your goal is crafting your best application, that's not on the path for you yet.

      My final thoughts are that, in brief, you need to do the following:
      1) Do not further damage your GPA. B+s and As from here on out.
      2) Solidify your ECs. Get into that soup kitchen, that doctor's office, and that research lab. Find some time for these things and make sure you're picking things you actually care about.
      3) You're almost certainly going to be looking at an SMP following graduation. In other words, add a year six to your plan and find something to do in your off-semester.

      But yes, you can still get into medical school.
       

      thatguyinschool

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      May 7, 2019
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      1. Pre-Medical
        Alright...

        To answer your primary question, yes, you do still stand a chance at becoming a medical student one day. This is contingent on a couple of things that I'll briefly outline in a minute.

        1) Your advisor is an idiot. Grades do not replace on any of the medical school applications. Not TMDSAS, not AMCAS, not AACOMAS. Grades average. In other words, you're going to be lugging around that F everywhere you apply. All schools will see it, and it will be included in all grade calculations as a 0.0.
        1a) If you have not already, retake this class. You need - at minimum - a C in order to apply for medical school as it is a prerequisite for all medical schools. Frankly, though, seeing as you've already taken it, you need to do better than that. Pull an A, or at the very least, a B+.

        2) It goes without saying, but you need to do well in everything else that you do. As it stands now, you're not too far in the hole. A few more Cs or B-s, though, and it might become irrecoverable regardless of SMPs or other reinvention work. Already, you're looking at likely taking a gap year or two to fix some of the damage.
        2a) The legendary Goro will probably come by and drop a link, but you have some reinventing to do when you finish your undergraduate degree. This, in your case, probably means pursuing an SMP. I think there's too much damage on your transcript to warrant a post-bacc, unless the stars align and you pull like a 525 on your MCAT.

        3) Your ECs/EC plans look good. Keep doing what you're doing in that department. The shadowing always looks good, and having DO shadowing behind you can't hurt. Take that soup kitchen and run with it - service to those in need is highly valued everywhere you look, and take any other opportunities like that you can find without harming your academics.

        4) I would recommend against EMT certification. If an organization on campus ends up doing BLS-CPR training, take it. Otherwise, that's not worth your effort (purely from an application standpoint) either at this point.
        4a) I recommend against EMT certification because you're already...what, a sophomore? The class takes at least a semester to complete, and you've already shown a middling performance in your academic coursework. Adding an additional EMT class to that does not sound like a good idea. Instead, bank on your shadowing experiences and, if possible, pick up some clinical volunteering time. I think, in your current situation, you have no business as an EMT, scribe, or any other job that will eat up a lion's share of your time. BLS-CPR certification is useless for medical school applications. Not to say it's a useless skill to have, but if your goal is crafting your best application, that's not on the path for you yet.

        My final thoughts are that, in brief, you need to do the following:
        1) Do not further damage your GPA. B+s and As from here on out.
        2) Solidify your ECs. Get into that soup kitchen, that doctor's office, and that research lab. Find some time for these things and make sure you're picking things you actually care about.
        3) You're almost certainly going to be looking at an SMP following graduation. In other words, add a year six to your plan and find something to do in your off-semester.

        But yes, you can still get into medical school.

        I was thinking the DIY post bacc? It’s just an SMP is so expensive and risky. I can’t even do a post bacc? Is that how bad of a position I’m in?
         
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        Isoval

        Year four and still haven't failed out yet, cool.
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      • Jul 5, 2017
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          @1a are you saying take it for a 3rd time?

          I didn't see where you said you'd retaken GC1.

          I was thinking the DIY post bacc? It’s just an SMP is so expensive and risky. I can’t even do a post bacc? Is that how bad of a position I’m in?

          The problem with a DIY post-bacc is that you're going to have a) a lot of credits from your trying to fill out the pre-reqs for DPT, PA, and nursing and b) the simple fact that your degree is a B.S. Where you stand now, it looks like your GPA - as calculated by application services - is decently sub-3.0, and that's not good.

          I have a friend who was close to your position grades-wise, maybe a little worse-off. I think he had a C, D, F, and the rest B or higher. He switched to business and made almost straight As/A-s afterwards. His university GPA - the one with replacement - is something like a 3.3 today.

          I think you're underestimating the damage that dragging an F on your transcript will do on the application services that do not honor grade replacement. You have an F and two Cs, one of which is a C-. Beyond that, you're filling up your transcript with Bs. That's some pretty deep damage, even if you made straight As going forward.

          Now...
          IF you absolutely kill it from here on out - nothing below. say, an A-...
          IF you wreck the MCAT and get, let's say, an upper 5teens...
          and IF you keep up with your ECs well,
          ...you may be in a position to do just a post-bacc or, honestly, skip the PB entirely.

          Your advantage is that you have a long way to go and a lot that can be done while you're still an undergrad. But don't underestimate the damage that's already been done. It's deep.
           
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          deleted936470

            OP, I'd suggest getting additional advice regarding your situation and not just from the previous poster. To recommend a SMP to a junior with a 3.1 without a MCAT score and who wants to go DO is ill-advised. A SMP would likely be necessary for MD consideration, however. You also do not need an MCAT of "upper" teens, which translates to a 97%+ percentile, for a competitive DO application, particularly if you sustain a 3.7+ in the next 2 years. That is, what you do need is a strong upward trend for the next 2 years and a DIY post-bacc is a feasible option to demonstrate this. You really cannot settle for anything less than an A- in each class from here on out. Really shoot for those 4.0s. Good luck.
             
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            ciestar

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              OP, I'd suggest getting additional advice regarding your situation and not just from the previous poster. To recommend a SMP to a junior with a 3.1 without a MCAT score and who wants to go DO is ill-advised. A SMP would likely be necessary for MD consideration, however. You also do not need an MCAT of "upper" teens, which translates to a 97%+ percentile, for a competitive DO application, particularly if you sustain a 3.7+ in the next 2-3 years. That is, what you do need is a strong upward trend for the next 2 or maybe 3 years and a DIY post-bacc is a feasible option to demonstrate this. You really cannot settle for anything less than an A- in each class from here on out. Really shoot for those 4.0s. Good luck.

              I agree. B’s are no longer acceptable.
               

              WoundupKnight

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                Do a 1 year DIY post bacc of 30 units, majority upper division sciences and earn a 3.7+ GPA.
                Spend a few months studying for the MCAT, take it only when your AAMC FLs are above 505.

                Take the MCAT, if you managed to get a 505+, aced the post bacc and have your ECs in order you'll have a good shot at DO, especially at the newer schools and the 3-10 new programs opening between 2019 and 2021.
                 
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                deleted936470

                  Do you guys feel like theres still hope tho, at this point I feel like I'm doomed. Feel like turning back and trying something else.
                  Did you read our responses? There's almost always hope, but the road to DO for you will be arduous and probably expensive.
                  If I was in your position, I'd ask myself if I thought I was capable of making only A's in upper division science from here on out before committing. You're close to doomed if you continue to get 3.0's.
                   
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                  thatguyinschool

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                    Did you read our responses? There's almost always hope, but the road to DO for you will be arduous and probably expensive.
                    If I was in your position, I'd ask myself if I thought I was capable of making only A's in upper division science from here on out before committing. You're close to doomed if you continue to get 3.0's.

                    I feel like to get A's in upper level science courses is going to be quite the reach. I just don't know at this point.
                     

                    Isoval

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                      OP, I'd suggest getting additional advice regarding your situation and not just from the previous poster. To recommend a SMP to a junior with a 3.1 without a MCAT score and who wants to go DO is ill-advised. A SMP would likely be necessary for MD consideration, however. You also do not need an MCAT of "upper" teens, which translates to a 97%+ percentile, for a competitive DO application, particularly if you sustain a 3.7+ in the next 2 years. That is, what you do need is a strong upward trend for the next 2 years and a DIY post-bacc is a feasible option to demonstrate this. You really cannot settle for anything less than an A- in each class from here on out. Really shoot for those 4.0s. Good luck.

                      The problem is that OP’s university GPA is 3.1. Their application GPA will be markedly lower due to no grade replacement.

                      I agree with most of the rest of your post. The MCAT was arbitrary, more so as an example of a “strong” score.
                       
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                      Isoval

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                        Do you guys know if I would even have a chance of getting into nursing at this point? My backup plan was to become a nurse anesthetist, or possibly an NP.

                        We all pretty unanimously agree that you still have a shot at medical school if you’re willing to put in the work.

                        But to answer your question, the gaps between nursing programs are as wide as the ocean. You could find some that would take you with a 2.7 and some that auto-reject below 3.5. If you’re going to look into that route, do some shopping around. City-based programs tend to be significantly more competitive.
                         

                        thatguyinschool

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                          We all pretty unanimously agree that you still have a shot at medical school if you’re willing to put in the work.

                          But to answer your question, the gaps between nursing programs are as wide as the ocean. You could find some that would take you with a 2.7 and some that auto-reject below 3.5. If you’re going to look into that route, do some shopping around. City-based programs tend to be significantly more competitive.

                          So in my cGPA, the F would be counted once I apply?
                           

                          Isoval

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                            So in my cGPA, the F would be counted once I apply?

                            That’s what I’ve been trying to say over and over.

                            Yes.

                            On medical applications, grade replacement does not exist. If you retake a class, your grades are averaged. This includes that C- you’re planning to retake, too.

                            For example, even if you got an A+ in GC1 on your retake, it will average with your F to basically be a C.

                            All credits count.

                            Further, this is why I have trouble recommending a post-bacc. Each retake adds more and more credits.
                             

                            Isoval

                            Year four and still haven't failed out yet, cool.
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                              Isoval

                              Year four and still haven't failed out yet, cool.
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                                If I pull thru lets say a 3.1 and above after accounting for the F will I be in a better position? For DO.

                                Yes, but a 3.1 will leave many doors closed unless, like previously mentioned, you do very well on the MCAT.

                                A 3.1 and a middling MCAT, say 506, would put you within striking distance of the lower and many of the middle-range DO schools, considering solid ECs.

                                @Magus5454 has some experience with a similar situation.
                                 

                                Goro

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                                  Do a 1 year DIY post bacc of 30 units, majority upper division sciences and earn a 3.7+ GPA.
                                  Spend a few months studying for the MCAT, take it only when your AAMC FLs are above 505.

                                  Take the MCAT, if you managed to get a 505+, aced the post bacc and have your ECs in order you'll have a good shot at DO, especially at the newer schools and the 3-10 new programs opening between 2019 and 2021.
                                  /thread.
                                   
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                                  thatguyinschool

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                                    So if i were to delay my graduation by taking classes to cover the pre reqs for other professions, which some consist of classes like a&p, do well, graduate and take classes like bio chem, and do 30 credits of upper tier classes will i be in ok shape to apply? will this show that i am working and am dedicated to those schools?
                                     
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