Can orgo be taken pass/fail?

[Dr. Josh]

Just curious since I'd hate it to kill my gpa and my science gpa. I only need it at my school for a pre-med pre-req. Does it look bad for med school apps? I can take 4 courses pass-fail at my school (lots of restrictions); it's my last year and I've never taken any that way. I've only had one week of the course and so far I don't find it bad, but I've heard so many rumors, especially with my present professor and it's not curved.

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[MollyMalone]

No, you can't take any of the prereqs pass/fail.

 

[TomWestmanRules]

Just curious since I'd hate it to kill my gpa and my science gpa. I only need it at my school for a pre-med pre-req. Does it look bad for med school apps? I can take 4 courses pass-fail at my school (lots of restrictions); it's my last year and I've never taken any that way. I've only had one week of the course and so far I don't find it bad, but I've heard so many rumors, especially with my present professor and it's not curved.

Definitely don't P/F it or take the course at some Community College. You can handle a lot more than you think. It'll be your toughest class this semester and therefore needs a much larger time investment than your other classes. Step up to the plate and get 'er done - it's good preparation for what lies ahead.

 

[Callogician]

Just curious since I'd hate it to kill my gpa and my science gpa. I only need it at my school for a pre-med pre-req. Does it look bad for med school apps? I can take 4 courses pass-fail at my school (lots of restrictions); it's my last year and I've never taken any that way. I've only had one week of the course and so far I don't find it bad, but I've heard so many rumors, especially with my present professor and it's not curved.

God damn you are a coward. If I saw a pass for O-chem on an app, I would immediately count that as a C in my mind.

 

[TomWestmanRules]

God damn you are a coward. If I saw a pass for O-chem on an app, I would immediately count that as a C in my mind.

Yes, I will second that. The fact that you're even entertaining the idea of Pass/Failing Organic Chemistry does make you a bit of a pansy.

 

[tok]

Just curious since I'd hate it to kill my gpa and my science gpa. I only need it at my school for a pre-med pre-req. Does it look bad for med school apps? I can take 4 courses pass-fail at my school (lots of restrictions); it's my last year and I've never taken any that way. I've only had one week of the course and so far I don't find it bad, but I've heard so many rumors, especially with my present professor and it's not curved.

Just because you have P/F choices left doesn't mean you have to use it. Especially not on an extremely important prerequisite for most medical schools like organic chemistry.

And don't be discouraged by rumors. I'm sure orgo classes in most schools are teeming with rumors (mostly spread by those who did bad in the course) about how difficult they are. Just stay ahead of the work and don't fall behind.

 

[63768]

no you can't take it p/f because it's required for med school.

if you want to use one of your p/f, tack on an extra course in something interesting or an upper level bio. i think that'd show curiousity/depth of knowledge. i had 4 p/fs too and only used two of them.

 

[QofQuimica]

Just curious since I'd hate it to kill my gpa and my science gpa. I only need it at my school for a pre-med pre-req. Does it look bad for med school apps? I can take 4 courses pass-fail at my school (lots of restrictions); it's my last year and I've never taken any that way. I've only had one week of the course and so far I don't find it bad, but I've heard so many rumors, especially with my present professor and it's not curved.

OP, I went to college at a school where everything was graded P/F (including organic), and I can tell you from experience that P/F grades will cause you a ton of grief when it comes time to apply to med school. This was true in my case in spite of my having a PhD in organic and a superior MCAT score. Take the course at your major institution, take it for credit (i.e., don't audit), and take it for a grade. Study your butt off and do well in it (B or better). I wrote a post in the Organic Explanations Thread in the MCAT subforum about how to do well in organic that you might find helpful. Best of to you.

 

[LizzyM]

actually, the entire first year at MIT is pass/fail and some freshmen there take orgo and other pre-reqs as freshmen. Of course, it is MIT and that is an MIT policy and generally the subsequent 2 years of coursework tell the tale (if it is very good you can be relatively certain that the first year wasn't Cs).

On the other hand, if you aren't at MIT, it would be a VERY BAD idea to take orgo pass/fail just to protect your gpa. Very, very bad.

 

[DrBowtie]

What about Biochem? I would be my senior year so the grade isn't really important admissions wise, but I'm already taking a full load and will hopefully missing quite a bit of class for interview travel.

Will P/F count for the schools with required or reccommended biochem courses?

 

[USCguy]

If you receive a Pass in a P/F course, then you made at least a C...So how is it that you "absolutely can't take it P/F, can't take any pre-reqs P/F"...I see what you are saying about just doing it to protect your GPA looks bad, but wouldn't it still technically count since you made at least a C and were able to move on to the next level?

 

[akinf]

Wow...at my school P/F courses are only offered to the people who didn't take certain high-school prerequisites.

So, suppose I didn't take high school physics, but I need it for university physics. I would take a course that teaches me the highschool physics stuff, but it is considered P/F. No undergrad. course should ever be P/F except in some cases ie: MIT, Caltech...I've heard about their policies.

 

[Law2Doc]

If you receive a Pass in a P/F course, then you made at least a C...So how is it that you "absolutely can't take it P/F, can't take any pre-reqs P/F"...I see what you are saying about just doing it to protect your GPA looks bad, but wouldn't it still technically count since you made at least a C and were able to move on to the next level?

It probably technically"counts", but looks horrible. It ends up being the equivalent of applying to med school with a low C in an important prereq, but not only that, having conceded defeat in the course without even trying. Med schools are trying to determine if you have a track record which suggests you will have success in med school, not just that you have technically satisfied the minimum set of requirements. Lots of med school rejects have done the technical minimum. So basically it looks so bad, that everyone here is saying don't even consider doing it. I wouldn't do P/F in biochem either -- you want to prove your abilities to med school in every science class you can.

Use the P/F for things totally unrelated but that you might want to dabble in, but not take much risk, maybe economics, or a social science, etc.

 

[deuist]

Law2Doc beat me to the punchline. P/F is for courses that are not related to pre-med reqs or your major. The system is best used for classes that interest you and no real impact on you future career. Modern dance is the example I was thinking of.

 

[kevster2001]

You can for some schools but it just looks really bad i think

 

[MinnyGophers]

Med schools want to see that you can do well in difficult, time restraining classes such as organic... you can definitely take it P/F, but you'll only look like a pansy doing so.
It's the whole point of this class, you're most likely never going to use organic in med school.

It seems you're looking for the easy road, but there is no easy road to a med school acceptance...

 

[dr.z]

No, you can't take any of the prereqs pass/fail.

That's what I thought...

 

[63768]

What about Biochem? I would be my senior year so the grade isn't really important admissions wise, but I'm already taking a full load and will hopefully missing quite a bit of class for interview travel.

Will P/F count for the schools with required or reccommended biochem courses?

i'd say biochem would be ok as p/f. if you have other bios and you've done well, i don't think a p/f biochem would hurt you. personally, i didn't take either of my biochems (took both because i'm masochistic like that haha) p/f even though i had the chance to. i felt that i wanted to show med schools i could do well in biochem.

 

[deuist]

i'd say biochem would be ok as p/f.

Increasingly, more schools are requiring biochem as a pre-req. Do not take it P/F.

 

[Dr. Josh]

no you can't take it p/f because it's required for med school.

if you want to use one of your p/f, tack on an extra course in something interesting or an upper level bio. i think that'd show curiousity/depth of knowledge. i had 4 p/fs too and only used two of them.

well i haven't used any of mine and I guess I won't get the opportunity to.

 

[Dr. Josh]

Med schools want to see that you can do well in difficult, time restraining classes such as organic... you can definitely take it P/F, but you'll only look like a pansy doing so.
It's the whole point of this class, you're most likely never going to use organic in med school.

It seems you're looking for the easy road, but there is no easy road to a med school acceptance...

Wow, I just asked a question; why all the name calling from so many? Thanks for everyone's responses, now I know I can't take it pass/fail so I'll give it my all.

 

[Dr. Josh]

OP, I went to college at a school where everything was graded P/F (including organic), and I can tell you from experience that P/F grades will cause you a ton of grief when it comes time to apply to med school. This was true in my case in spite of my having a PhD in organic and a superior MCAT score. Take the course at your major institution, take it for credit (i.e., don't audit), and take it for a grade. Study your butt off and do well in it (B or better). I wrote a post in the Organic Explanations Thread in the MCAT subforum about how to do well in organic that you might find helpful. Best of to you.

Thanks, I'll look for that.

 

[Puddintame]

At our institution, the prof does not know if a student takes a course pass/fail and at the end of the term gives the student a grade just like anybody else. If it's a C or better, the Registrar's office converts it to a P, but retains a record of the grade given. It's my understanding that many (most? all?) med schools will have you uncover the grade (and YOU have to pay the fee for having this done) you made in your pass fall course and recalibrate your GPA accordingly. Basic rule of thumb is that taking a course pass/fail is a no-win strategy. You're better off not taking them at all for any class, IMO.

 

[BigRedPremed]

Wow, I just asked a question; why all the name calling from so many? Thanks for everyone's responses, now I know I can't take it pass/fail so I'll give it my all.

Because you sounded like a pansy. We would all love to take orgo pass/fail. Premed doesn't work that way.

 

[MinnyGophers]

Wow, I just asked a question; why all the name calling from so many? Thanks for everyone's responses, now I know I can't take it pass/fail so I'll give it my all.

Did not call you anything.

I don't give a crap whether you take it P/F, but an adcom does.

 

[Law2Doc]

Wow, I just asked a question; why all the name calling from so many?

You got good advice, don't cry about how it was delivered.

 

[Dr. Josh]

Wow this is a tough group but thanks for all the advice.

 

[nghimai]

At our institution, the prof does not know if a student takes a course pass/fail and at the end of the term gives the student a grade just like anybody else. If it's a C or better, the Registrar's office converts it to a P, but retains a record of the grade given. It's my understanding that many (most? all?) med schools will have you uncover the grade (and YOU have to pay the fee for having this done) you made in your pass fall course and recalibrate your GPA accordingly. , IMO.

Is this really true. I have never heard of any school requiring the applicant to do this.

 

[Puddintame]

Is this really true. I have never heard of any school requiring the applicant to do this.

All I can say is that I know of it having happened with some consistency. I don't have any systematic knowledge of the policies of medical schools, but based on what I've heard from students and advisors, it's not uncommon. So, unfortunately, it's probably one of those things that requires a little homework, meaning you probably ought to contact the schools you're applying to and ask about their policies, specifically.