can osteopathic physician (DO) write MD after name?

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JaggerPlate said:
Roflllll. God, pre-med telling a resident the way things work in clinical practice. Got to love it. Well done. I think some surgeons in the prs forum are looking for advice on a complicated reconstruction if you aren't too busy.
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Um I already did that last week. But thanks for asking!
 
Etzio said:
I edited your post for ya.

No Im saying because your a DO you are. That was my point. -1 for comprehension, but I guess they don't really teach much of that in DO school 😀.

But you will be, because I will be an MD and have you working for me. Ill give you a good salary and easy hours - don't worry.

Tsank you fo that ma man. Its gonna be a real ride when (not if) I get into MED school - not Ididn'tgetintoanMDschoolsothisisthesecondbestoption school.

Seriously, if you had an acceptance to an MD and a DO school, which one would you choose? <---exactly my point.

Maybe its because im Asian I feel this way? Asians/South Asians aren't DOs (except for my Asian cousin, and his South Asian friend who get so much **** from their families their lives suck anyway).
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And+So+It+Begins.jpg
 
Etzio said:
Except no one outside the US knows what a DO is because that degree doesn't exist anywhere else. Ive seen patients at the hospitals ive worked in the US, that didn't know what a DO was. However this is the US and we believe that everyone should be given a chance to do what they want. Hence we create backdoor options to many careers, a DO is that option for becoming a doctor.
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Backdoor would be skipping MCAT, skipping an undergrad degree etc (like going to some carribbean or international med schools that give MD degrees). Just cause one has a slightly little less admission standards doesn't equal to backdoor. If there are enough MD school in the US to supply demanded physicians, I'm sure people going to DO schools would have been admitted to MD schools.
Premed are so full of "Wisdom"
 
Etzio, you have become my favorite SDN poster. Seriously. Your ignorance is so entertaining. Keep it up man 👍
 
JW08 said:
Backdoor would be skipping MCAT, skipping an undergrad degree etc (like going to some carribbean or international med schools that give MD degrees). Just cause one has a slightly little less admission standards doesn't equal to backdoor. If there are enough MD school in the US to supply demanded physicians, I'm sure people going to DO schools would have been admitted to MD schools.
Premed are so full of "Wisdom"
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I'm not terribly upset that there aren't enough medical schools in the US to meet demand. The lawyers of the country are learning a hard lesson about supply and demand. Now, if we can only get schools to stop expanding. And yes, I realize before I got into medical school I was all for expansion, but I have seen the error of my ways.
 
Etzio said:
Perhaps that's your opinion. I never said DOs were less competent of doctors. Ive shadowed MDs and spoke to them about DOs, and the cardiologist at my hospital said (direct quote):

"DOs are a way for people who can't get an MD feel good about themselves for becoming a doctor because this is America, and we want to maximize satisfaction to everyone."

An orthopedic surgeon (MD) also told me:

"There is no difference in the way we interact with each other, and the way things work in the professional setting between MDs and DOs. However in the back of my mind, I know that this person just didn't have what it took to be an MD."

The head of oncology at my hospital told his attending to specifically "not to interview any DOs" for openings on his team. So there is bias in the system - that is undeniable. An MD telling people that being a DO is no different is like me sleeping with a playboy model and telling you that its same feeling as jerking off - when in reality its infinitely better. Hope you get the analogy.

I don't care about the bias, and certainly have respect for the DOs that I know at my hospital. They have taught me many interesting things about medicine, so there is no lack of competency on their part. However I still can't bring myself to settle. If your willing to settle for your goals, then DO is by no means any less of a degree. I just can't compromise on what I want.
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That cardio & ortho must be bunch of arrogant elitists, and looks like you are following their path. I have seen some of the best cardios and Orthos working with DO surgeon, DO anesthesiologist, and I actually know a DO pediatric cardio-thoraxic surgeon.
It doesn't matter, this is like beating a dead horse. DOs has been in existence for over a century and it will keep going.
 
JW08 said:
Backdoor would be skipping MCAT, skipping an undergrad degree etc (like going to some carribbean or international med schools that give MD degrees). Just cause one has a slightly little less admission standards doesn't equal to backdoor. If there are enough MD school in the US to supply demanded physicians, I'm sure people going to DO schools would have been admitted to MD schools.
Premed are so full of "Wisdom"
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I'm pretty sure that if given an option of going to an MD versus DO, the majority would choose MD. Sure there maybe a small percentage who for some ridiculous reason would want DO, but the fact is most applicants would choose MD, hence its a backdoor option, and it doesn't matter how "good" a doctor they are - I never said they were bad doctors - It still doesn't change the fact that its second best at least.
 
Etzio said:
Maybe its because im Asian I feel this way? Asians/South Asians aren't DOs (except for my Asian cousin, and his South Asian friend who get so much **** from their families their lives suck anyway).
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Oh god...No it is not because you are Asian. Etzio it is because you are Etzio.
 
Etzio said:
I edited your post for ya.

No Im saying because your a DO you are. That was my point. -1 for comprehension, but I guess they don't really teach much of that in DO school 😀.

But you will be, because I will be an MD and have you working for me. Ill give you a good salary and easy hours - don't worry.

Tsank you fo that ma man. Its gonna be a real ride when (not if) I get into MED school - not Ididn'tgetintoanMDschoolsothisisthesecondbestoption school.

Seriously, if you had an acceptance to an MD and a DO school, which one would you choose? <---exactly my point.

Maybe its because im Asian I feel this way? Asians/South Asians aren't DOs (except for my Asian cousin, and his South Asian friend who get so much **** from their families their lives suck anyway).
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Oh, dear Lord Etzio. . .not this again. . .

The physicians in my FM practice have both DOs and MDs. I like the DO there better b/c not only is he secure in what he knows, he is still humble about it and doesn't always have to play smack down with his patients' perspectives.

Also he is more up on stuff and the literature and basically has, overall, a more well-rounded clinical background---especially in comparison to the other FP front-runner who does NOT have the former physician's clinical experiences and insights--again, that is, overall. Interestingly, the latter MD is from outside the country. The DO really has it all over him.

In the end, it's the person in the suit, not the suit. . .and whether the person in the suit can kick butt, so to speak.

So I don't care either way if the person is MD or DO or MD PhD, or DO PhD. . . The proof will be in her/his overall expertise, desire, skill, commitment, intelligence, clinical practice, ethics, genuine concern, and overall knowledge for practice. . . and her/his level of humility. . . b/c no one knows it all.

Other than that, it's all just BS.
 
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While thinking of a reply for this thread's celebrity, Etzio, a few things came to mind.

I could have posted that someone who plans to get a 4.0 every semester until graduation and kill the MCAT in order to get into a coveted MD program should first learn how to distinguish the words your and you're (there are verbal and writing sections on the MCAT).

I could have noted that in 2009 the matriculation for Asians in DO programs was 20% of the class (tell all of them that Asians aren't DOs)

I could have even emphasized that DO was my first choice (many connections at MD schools) and I will be more than happy to be a "second-best" DOCTOR as opposed to being in his shoes and probably not being a doctor at all.

However, the one thing I settled on is the fact that I am happy (and sorry at the same time 🙄) that you guys have to deal with him on the MD side (I won't say allopathic because a lot of MDs take offense to that term)
 
@Etzio

You should focus your efforts on finding a way to get into ANY med school considering your GPA instead of showing your ignorance on these issues.

The way you say "HAHA you'll be working for me you DO when I am an MD" when you have not been accepted and are fighting an uphill battle is classic. :meanie:
 
jl lin said:
Oh, dear Lord Etzio. . .not this again. . .

The physicians in my FM practice has both DOs and MDs. I like the DO there better b/c not only is he secure in what he knows, he is still humble about it and doesn't always have to play smack down with his patients' perspectives.

Also he is more up on stuff and the literature and basically has, overall, a more well-rounded clinical background---especially in comparison to the other FP front-runner who does NOT have the former physician's clinical experiences and insights, overall. Interestingly, the latter MD is from outside the country. The DO really has it all over him.

In the end, it's the person in the suit, not the suit. . .and whether ther person in the suit can kick butt.

So I don't care either way if the person is MD or DO or MD PhD, or DO PhD. . . The proof will be in her/his overall expertise, desire, skill, commitment, intelligence, clinical practice, ethics, genuine concern, and overall knowledge for practice. . . and her/his level of humility. . . b/c no one knows it all.

Other than that, it's all just BS.
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First off family practice is pretty easy:

"Hey kiddo, looks like you have a cold. Go get some Tylenol, some sleep, and play Pokemon. Heres a lollipop and a colored band aid."

Second you still didn't get my point. For a bunch of med school students you guys are kinda stupid. I never said DOs were idiots or were incompetent doctors. All I said was that it is a back door entry to medicine and no one has actually refuted that. So I ask again, if given the option of an MD and DO admission, which one would you choose Allopathic, or Osteopathetic? Exactly.


I could have posted that someone who plans to get a 4.0 every semester until graduation and kill the MCAT in order to get into a coveted MD program should first learn how to distinguish the words your and you're (there are verbal and writing sections on the MCAT).
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Your right. Im just too lazy to write like that for YOUR convenience.

I could have noted that in 2009 the matriculation for Asians in DO programs was 20% of the class (tell all of them that Asians aren't DOs)
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They don't count as Asian.
 
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Etzio said:
First off family practice is pretty easy:
"Hey kiddo, looks like you have a cold. Go get some Tylenol, some sleep, and play Pokemon. Heres a lollipop and a colored band aid."
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O RLY? I can promise you that family practice is not easy.


And let's cool it on the DO bashing.
 
Etzio said:
First off family practice is pretty easy:

"Hey kiddo, looks like you have a cold. Go get some Tylenol, some sleep, and play Pokemon. Heres a lollipop and a colored band aid."

Second you still didn't get my point. For a bunch of med school students you guys are kinda stupid. I never said DOs were idiots or were incompetent doctors. All I said was that it is a back door entry to medicine and no one has actually refuted that. So I ask again, if given the option of an MD and DO admission, which one would you choose Allopathic, or Osteopathetic? Exactly.




Your right. Im just too lazy to write like that for YOUR convenience.



They don't count as Asian.
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I feel like I'm sitting at a stoplight, just watching traffic pass. The light has been yellow for a few seconds and this last car is still motoring along with the intent to cross the intersection. I can hear and feel what is about to happen. My body anticipates the crunching of metal, the glass being thrown about, and the sirens soon to follow. I know I shouldn't, but I just keep watching the empty spot in the intersection soon to be filled with crumpled remains of the careless vehicle. I can't look away. I just can't.

Etzio, you are either a troll or utterly clueless. I can't rule down that you suffer from both. You should really consider not slamming (potentially, but it doesn't look promising at the moment) colleagues in Family Med. and DOs.
 
Physio Doc 2 Be said:
I feel like I'm sitting at a stoplight, just watching traffic pass. The light has been yellow for a few seconds and this last car is still motoring along with the intent to cross the intersection. I can hear and feel what is about to happen. My body anticipates the crunching of metal, the glass being thrown about, and the sirens soon to follow. I know I shouldn't, but I just keep watching the empty spot in the intersection soon to be filled with crumpled remains of the careless vehicle. I can't look away. I just can't.
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Physio Doc 2 Be said:
Etzio, you are either a troll or utterly clueless. I can't rule down that you suffer from both. You should really consider not slamming (potentially, but it doesn't look promising at the moment) colleagues in Family Med. and DOs.
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Interesting, Is that how you started your essay for med school admissions? I wrote an essay about cars too but I was in 5th grade back then. Not bad though.
 
Etzio said:
Except no one outside the US knows what a DO is because that degree doesn't exist anywhere else. Ive seen patients at the hospitals ive worked in the US, that didn't know what a DO was. However this is the US and we believe that everyone should be given a chance to do what they want. Hence we create backdoor options to many careers, a DO is that option for becoming a doctor.
Click to expand...

Snotty pre-meds preaching to med students about the real world of medicine reminds me of high school sophomores telling college students how to study for the MCAT. No wonder pre-allo has such a bad rep.
 
Etzio said:
Perhaps that's your opinion. I never said DOs were less competent of doctors. Ive shadowed MDs and spoke to them about DOs, and the cardiologist at my hospital said (direct quote):

"DOs are a way for people who can't get an MD feel good about themselves for becoming a doctor because this is America, and we want to maximize satisfaction to everyone."

An orthopedic surgeon (MD) also told me:

"There is no difference in the way we interact with each other, and the way things work in the professional setting between MDs and DOs. However in the back of my mind, I know that this person just didn't have what it took to be an MD."

The head of oncology at my hospital told his attending to specifically "not to interview any DOs" for openings on his team. So there is bias in the system - that is undeniable. An MD telling people that being a DO is no different is like me sleeping with a playboy model and telling you that its same feeling as jerking off - when in reality its infinitely better. Hope you get the analogy.

I don't care about the bias, and certainly have respect for the DOs that I know at my hospital. They have taught me many interesting things about medicine, so there is no lack of competency on their part. However I still can't bring myself to settle. If your willing to settle for your goals, then DO is by no means any less of a degree. I just can't compromise on what I want.
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As an MD student, I can't help but fear for the profession that someone like you might become one of us.
 
I actually feel a little bad for him. He's so delusional it's sad.
 
Etzio said:


Interesting, Is that how you started your essay for med school admissions? I wrote an essay about cars too but I was in 5th grade back then. Not bad though.
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I just wanted to say that this is Etzio's last post. It pleases me to no end to say that. Etzio, if you're reading this as a non-member, best of luck to you my man. I won't miss you, and will be on the lookout for you trying to sneak in the back door with a VPN or some other IP address-disguising trick under a new username. I'm sure a number of us will remember your style.
 
Wow how was he not banned earlier, seriously it was like a train-wreck he just kept goin' and goin' and when you thought how could that get any worse it actually did. I'm actually going to give him a little golf clap for what I can only describe as the most epic meltdown I have ever seen on SDN.
 
The only real problem with a DO degree is that it is not accepted the world over as a physician equivalent degree. That may be an issue 10-20 years from now if US medicine takes a big dive and you're looking for other, better, options. Of course, medicine in those other countries could also take a big hit. It's something to think about. It is easier to practice in many countries with an MD degree from the US. That may change, but I would not hold my breath if I were you.
I consider practicing overseas, 10 years from now, as a serious possibility. NPs, CRNAs, falling salaries, increasingly litigious patients, loss of public support and respect (as the Ins CO CEOs make 8 figure bonuses), Maobama care repercussions, etc. The future is far from certain or bright. I ponder selling out for more $$ now in a private practice job regularly. You have to make hay while the sun shines.
 
My badge at the Children's hospital say MD after my name, but it's either just a clerical error or that's what they put in for all "Physician level" providers.

For clarification, I'm a DDS.
 
IlDestriero said:
The only real problem with a DO degree is that it is not accepted the world over as a physician equivalent degree. That may be an issue 10-20 years from now if US medicine takes a big dive and you're looking for other, better, options. Of course, medicine in those other countries could also take a big hit. It's something to think about. It is easier to practice in many countries with an MD degree from the US. That may change, but I would not hold my breath if I were you.
I consider practicing overseas, 10 years from now, as a serious possibility. NPs, CRNAs, falling salaries, increasingly litigious patients, loss of public support and respect (as the Ins CO CEOs make 8 figure bonuses), Maobama care repercussions, etc. The future is far from certain or bright. I ponder selling out for more $$ now in a private practice job regularly. You have to make hay while the sun shines.
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Many countries now recognize the US DO degree as equivalent to the US MD degree and the list keeps growing.
 
IlDestriero said:
The only real problem with a DO degree is that it is not accepted the world over as a physician equivalent degree. That may be an issue 10-20 years from now if US medicine takes a big dive and you're looking for other, better, options. Of course, medicine in those other countries could also take a big hit. It's something to think about. It is easier to practice in many countries with an MD degree from the US.
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This is a common belief that no one has ever verified to any degree. I maintained the osteopathic FAQ on DO international practice rights for a while when I was a mod, and no one, when asked, has ever been able to provide me with a list of places the USMD is accepted. And it's not because the US MD some sort of universal degree so having a list is superfluous. It's because, no one really knows exactly how many places accept the USMD.

There are hoops to jump through in order to practice overseas USMD or USDO alike. Most of the time you get paid less than here. And when it comes right down to it, the only places overseas most people would like to go to practice are first world countries. The USDO is accepted in most of Canada, Australia, and the UK. New Zealand, if I recall, is iffy or doesn't. It's been a few years since I've checked. But really, where else would you realistically want to practice if you had to move? The supposed advantage isn't that great.
 
MedStudentWanna said:
I doubt it was an error. The hospital most likely wants to keep it easy for the patients so every doctor is an "MD" on their badge/coat.
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These errors do happen. I worked with a resident the other day whose name tag said MD but he was a DO. Its a residency program where they do rotations at a few different hospitals and I imagine they just assumed MD when he got his badge at this hospital. Of course its the pathology department so there really aren't any patients to mislead anyways.
 
Ignoring everything else that was said in this thread, I was watching The Doctors at the gym on Friday and they were doing some "Body Bowl" thing. They had the team docs/trainers etc for Dukes basketball team on there and one of the guy I swear they had as M.D., D.O. I unfortunately didn't catch his name. Anyone know about him or see that segment?

AHA! I found it on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSmjh5yWkAc

Dr. Jeffrey Bytomski M.D., D.O.

Here is his bio from Duke's site: http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=167386

Graduated from Kirksville. Did they just list him as a M.D. because they figured people wouldn't know what a D.O. was?
 
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ruiner said:
Ignoring everything else that was said in this thread, I was watching The Doctors at the gym on Friday and they were doing some "Body Bowl" thing. They had the team docs/trainers etc for Dukes basketball team on there and one of the guy I swear they had as M.D., D.O. I unfortunately didn't catch his name. Anyone know about him or see that segment?

AHA! I found it on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSmjh5yWkAc

Dr. Jeffrey Bytomski M.D., D.O.

Here is his bio from Duke's site: http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=167386

Graduated from Kirksville. Did they just list him as a M.D. because they figured people wouldn't know what a D.O. was?
Click to expand...

That show actually screws up a lot with degree titles, info, etc. They had Dr. Will Kirby on there (a DO from Nova Southeastern famous for Big Brother and Dr. 90210) a few times and the first time he was listed as 'Will Kirby, MD' and the AOA (or some group) contacted the show and the next time he was 'Will Kirby, DO, FAOCD' (fellow of the american osteo college of derm - but I think they thought it was a necessary part of the degree title), and the third time he was 'Will Kirby, DO.'

Additionally, they had a big LA derm/hair restoration surgeon on there a while back showing off some new laser therapy and he was listed as 'Craig Ziering, MD' even though he's a DO from NSU as well.

This thing with the sports med doc was probably just a mistake/confusion. The only people who have 'legit' MD,DOs are those who graduated from a foreign medical school (with the MD) and attended DO school afterward in the US. NYCOM used to have an accelerated program for foreign MDs, and I've heard there are a decent amount of them in NY (though, to my knowledge, they've closed the program down since).

If it's any consolation, I'm pretty sure Phil McGraw's son produces the show, so maybe that's where there's so much 'Dr' confusion 🙄
 
JaggerPlate said:
That show actually screws up a lot with degree titles, info, etc. They had Dr. Will Kirby on there (a DO from Nova Southeastern famous for Big Brother and Dr. 90210) a few times and the first time he was listed as 'Will Kirby, MD' and the AOA (or some group) contacted the show and the next time he was 'Will Kirby, DO, FAOCD' (fellow of the american osteo college of derm - but I think they thought it was a necessary part of the degree title), and the third time he was 'Will Kirby, DO.'

Additionally, they had a big LA derm/hair restoration surgeon on there a while back showing off some new laser therapy and he was listed as 'Craig Ziering, MD' even though he's a DO from NSU as well.

This thing with the sports med doc was probably just a mistake/confusion. The only people who have 'legit' MD,DOs are those who graduated from a foreign medical school (with the MD) and attended DO school afterward in the US. NYCOM used to have an accelerated program for foreign MDs, and I've heard there are a decent amount of them in NY (though, to my knowledge, they've closed the program down since).

If it's any consolation, I'm pretty sure Phil McGraw's son produces the show, so maybe that's where there's so much 'Dr' confusion 🙄
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NYCOM still has the program, Its called the Emigre program... They did add an admission exam to enter it though, and its no longer accelerated I believe... They are already MDs who couldnt get a residency for whatever reason (usually foreign grads), so they go back to NYCOM for 4 years, and graduate with the DO degree. They can then be called DO, MD...
 
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NYEMMED said:
NYCOM still has the program, Its called the Emigre program... They did add an admission exam to enter it though, and its no longer accelerated I believe... They are already MDs who couldnt get a residency for whatever reason (usually foreign grads), so they go back to NYCOM for 4 years, and graduate with the DO degree. Then can then be called DO, MD...
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Oh, good to know!
 
pianoman511 said:
How can NYCOM award an MD degree?? Those students should receive a DO degree... who cares what their history is, they are attending a DO school.
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Re-read the post: NYCOM dosen't award an MD degree they award a DO degree, but NYCOM has a program for CURRENT MDs to go to NYCOM and earn their DO degree, usually for a better shot at landing a residency. Usually they are foreign grad MDs and therefore they cannot match. NYCOM offers them an admission test almost like a mini step exam, and if they do well they are US DO students for 4 years. When they Graduate NYCOM they will be awarded the DO degree, but since they are already MDs they can also use MD in their title. I believe since they would be licensed in the US as a DO and not an MD they must go by DO in the US, so they are then officially John Doe DO,MD. NYCOM has a few people in this program each year, usually they are older physicians from other countries that moved to the US, A few have been Carrib MDs who cant match and need to go to medical school again in the US. Either way its a good program...
 
If you graduated from med school and granted MD then you can write MD after your name. If granted DO, then you write DO. If you graduated once from med school and got MD and then graduated from another school and got DO, you can write both MD and DO. So my point is: if you want write both, MD and DO you have to graduated from two schools. There is no another way.
 
JaggerPlate said:
That show actually screws up a lot with degree titles, info, etc. They had Dr. Will Kirby on there (a DO from Nova Southeastern famous for Big Brother and Dr. 90210) a few times and the first time he was listed as 'Will Kirby, MD' and the AOA (or some group) contacted the show and the next time he was 'Will Kirby, DO, FAOCD' (fellow of the american osteo college of derm - but I think they thought it was a necessary part of the degree title), and the third time he was 'Will Kirby, DO.'

Additionally, they had a big LA derm/hair restoration surgeon on there a while back showing off some new laser therapy and he was listed as 'Craig Ziering, MD' even though he's a DO from NSU as well.

This thing with the sports med doc was probably just a mistake/confusion. The only people who have 'legit' MD,DOs are those who graduated from a foreign medical school (with the MD) and attended DO school afterward in the US. NYCOM used to have an accelerated program for foreign MDs, and I've heard there are a decent amount of them in NY (though, to my knowledge, they've closed the program down since).

If it's any consolation, I'm pretty sure Phil McGraw's son produces the show, so maybe that's where there's so much 'Dr' confusion 🙄
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Cool. You would think a show like that would have their stuff together more but it's all for the entertainment anyway. :laugh: Every other show ends up being a sex fest.
 
Not to bash on someone who's probably not even reading this but there is no way in hell you can get into an MD or a DO school with a GPA < 3.0 unless you ace your MCATs or really schmooze the hell out of the admissions committees (or sleep with them, whatever's easier). Even then not applying to DO schools or Caribbean schools is an incredibly stupid idea if you really want to go into medicine.

Probably good he got banned anyway, he can spend more time studying lol.
 
I think DOs should be called MDO (medical doctor of Osteopathy) but they will probably take some heat from Allopaths.
 
Yea and optometrists (ODs) should be called optometric medical doctors. Then again we can legally refer to ourselves as optometric physicians but HEY no MD/DO likes to hear about a more streamlined education focusing 4 years on one organ system 🙂
 
Shnurek said:
Yea and optometrists (ODs) should be called optometric medical doctors. Then again we can legally refer to ourselves as optometric physicians but HEY no MD/DO likes to hear about a more streamlined education focusing 4 years on one organ system 🙂
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Please tell me you guys don't actually think that in any serious way. :laugh:
 
Sure he CAN. Will he have earned the right? No.

I mean I can write OBE Esq after my name but it doesn't make me a knight barrister.
 
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