Canadian Brain Drain

[JattMed]

Hello, I am wondering about the brain drain from Canada to the US that has been reported on for the last 10 years or so.
I am curious to know how many doctors head to the USA and for what positions.
Also is there a significant number of Canadian medical graduates heading to the USA for residencies?
Any input on this is appreciated.

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[JattMed]

Bumpity bump bump

 

[docbill]

The brain drain is real.. and is continuing!

The estimate is 10% of all canadian medical school graduates go south every year.

To do residency to live and work and those people don't come back.

I am in the process of applying to the US and I start asking myself. Will I come back. Canada refuses to admitt me ... nor will they consider me competetive. Whereas in the US I am competetive and hopefuly I will be accepted.

Now you tell me why we have a shortage in Canada. I would agree to work in Canada... in an underepresented area like Victoria or Quebec city or other locations for a perior of 5-10 years if the F$# goverment will train me.

Canada's agencies and Physicians and surgeons have to decide what they wish to do. They are being pushed by IMG to open the doors, they refuse. They are being asked to train more people they refuse.

 

[docbill]

OKAY.. all the people reading these posts.. should start posting comments.

It is not that hard... just go and sign up and start posting.. don't be a voyer.

 

[windshadow]

I myself can't imagine to go south though...
not that I am a super loyal canadian
yet in general US has a much faster pace for work
and I would rather earn just enough and have an easy life

but well...guess i am odd
it's not inevitable that some people will go for US
since they are generally paid better there

 

[docbill]

I agree with you.

I am not looking at it financially. I am bothered to have to go down to the states and than be expected to come back to Canada.

My chances of being accepted and trained here are slim. Which means I am not qualified. But if I study in the US, pay the extra money.. than I am suddently qualified to practice in Canada.

The US on the other hand will have allowed me to be educated and trained as a Physician. Which deserves loyolty.

 

[JMD]

As a US med student, I have tinkered with the idea of practicing in Canada if it were a possibility (I'm quite fond of both Toronto and Vancouver)... I don't know a whole lot about the topic, but it seems to me that it is much easier for a Canadian to come down here for med school, residency, or to practice than it is for a US citizen to go to Canada.

Just seems kind of strange, especially given a "brain drain." Do you know of any US med grads who are also US citizens that are practicing in Canada?

I have met some extremely bright Canadians who have ended up at schools in the US and Ireland because they were not accepted there. One girl I know got no love in Canada but received multiple acceptances in the US.

Sorry if my post didn't contain any useful info...

 

[docbill]

JMD, your post is perfectly fine... it is opinion area here.

US graduates can come and work in Canada but most provinces will require some exams. I think someone told me that for US grads they don't have to do all the exams. Especially not the first basic science one. Equal to USMLE1. But they would have to do the esier 2nd and third.. equal to USMLE2/3. I know for me... I will be getting a DO degree (for those who are not fimiliar with this it is same as an MD with slightly different philosophy... brief definition), I will be able to come back to most provinces and practice (meating the same US trained MD requirements).

The question has most likely been do US citizens want to come to canada and practice when the incentives in the states are better. There are many US trained canadian doctors working in Canada that is clear. I believe there is a residency requirement to work as a physician in Canada. Look at the canadian medical provincial licensing agencies. I don't have the website off hand... but I am sure GOOGLE will give you that.

I will go to the US if I don't get in here. I will find out in 2 weeks if I am accepted and if not I have 3 interviews lined up for October.

 

[leishmaniac]

For Canadians like me who didn't get into medical school in Canada, and had to go to a US med school, the $150,000 med school debt certainly plays a role in determining where we practice (at least the first few years post-GME).

Perhaps returning to Canada to practice will be dependent on the exchange rate?

 

[docbill]

Leishmaniac, where are you now.. did you do an MD or a DO. By the way the exchange now is great.. 78.75 or someothing like that now.

If bush gets in next elections... it can go up to 85cents... or higher. hehehe

 

[leishmaniac]

Leishmaniac, where are you now.. did you do an MD or a DO. By the way the exchange now is great.. 78.75 or someothing like that now.

If bush gets in next elections... it can go up to 85cents... or higher. hehehe

I'm a 4th year MD student, currently applying to US residencies, though planning to take MCCQE as well.

 

[ALMD2B]

Being a born canadian (Torontonian to be exact)....is only a faint memory now. I left over 6 years ago for medical school (Europe and Caribbean)....I knew from the first day of biology class at Convocation Hall (Univ of Toronto) that I wouldn't get in. The prof mentioned that everyone in that class wanted to get into med school and only 3% would (class of 1800). I was determined to be a part of that 3%.

Travelling around the world has opened up my mind to what else this world has to offer. This is something I find that many don't realize. I now know that I will practice in the US and will only go back to Toronto to visit. I love Toronto, it's my home, but working there is unrealistic for me. Doing the board exams (MCQQE's--sp?) and then working up north in the middle of ice and snow wouldn't even cross my mind once.

After living in the Caribbean, you sort of become "immune" to the snow/cold weather...i could not tolerate the cold weather upon my return to the US/Canada (so much so, that i was told to get a TSH check, just in case).hehehe...(normal, thank goodness!).

For those pondering weather to study in the US/Caribbean, i say go for it. I know that the loans in excess of $150 000 USD may seem troubling, but considering how much money you will make when you finish residency...(start in excess of $100 000 of course depending on the specialty)....why worry?

Live poorly ($40 000/yr most of US, $50 000/yr in NYC) for a few years during residency, and then pay the loan off ASAP after residency.

hope this helps with weighing out your options; i speak only of experience.

 

[docbill]

Well it is official... another Brain heading south. UNLESS CANADIAN SCHOOLS ACCEPT ME.

I have been accepted in a US medical school and unless I get a possition here, I will have to move sounth. It is sad I know, but reality bites.

I am a mature applicant. Since I have MSc and PhD (presently completing it).
Unfortunatly few canadian schools (other then Toronto and UMontreal) truly appreaciate this over my undergraduate studies started 10 years ago.

Best of Luck .. Oh CAnadaaaaaaaaa

BA

 

[Lara]

Sorry docbill - I've been there, and it does suck (worse of all being the tuition differential). I was definitely bitter for some time even though I liked Temple, especially since McGill strung me on the waitlist for *two* summers.

But congrats on getting into med school! In the end everything happens for a reason. I was born and raised in Montreal, so having new experiences elsewhere and gaining more independence was definitely a good thing. And warmer climes (although PA still has winter) is a bonus for sure LOL.

 

[docbill]

Thanks Lara,
I am a hardcore canadian.. English and French so it is ugly.

I will apply to UMontreal and Laval, Just incase. That way I don' t say I wish I did. Laval hung me out to dry last year.. but you never know. I am still Quebec Resident.

Tuition is not a big issue since we can pay it back in the future... tax deductable.
BA

 

[Smooth Operater]

hey! I am a Canadian too. From what i 've been reading, it's generally easier for Canadians to get in state private schools right? Do most private schools cost $150 000 in 4 years including living expense?

 

[docbill]

40-50K US a year. I will say most likely 50K US since there is medical insurance and Books and travel expenses. As well as some places you will need a car.