Canadian med school vs US med school if you want to practice in US

[ahmadmz]

I’m a non-traditional applicant with very strong stats and have applied to both, US and Canadian Med Schools. I’m a Canadian citizen. However, my entire family lives in US. My siblings moved here before the age of 21 so they were able to get green cards and such and I wasn’t as I was not under that age at the time. My goal is to do residency and eventually practice in US for reasons including my family, preference and weather.
Can someone give me advice on deciding if I should do med school in Canada or in US if my goal is to do residency in US? From the job shadowings I have done, EM is my top choice for residency.
Important thing to mention is for the 4 years, Canadian med school would cost only around $75K or so (including living costs) and US med school for 4 years would cost me around $350K (including living expenses). My dilemma is that is the additional $275K worth it if I choose to go to US med school? If I choose to go to Canadian med school and save all that money, would I have a hard time getting a residency in US if I have no status here and didn’t even study here? Any feedback would be helpful! Thanks!

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[efle]

I'd repost in ~6 months when you've gotten your admits and financial aid packages so you know what the details of the decision really are

 

[ahmadmz]

I'd repost in ~6 months when you've gotten your admits and financial aid packages so you know what the details of the decision really are

I won't be getting any financial aid packages as those are only offered to US residents/citizens. So the tuition numbers I posted are what I will be facing...

 

[summergirl]

US medical school wins by far if you want to to practice in the US. Aside from any possible hidden bias US PDs have towards USMD gradues, the biggest problem faced by Canadian MD grads who wish to obtain residency in the states is that there is not enough time to complete all the qualifications to start your residency on time. But Canadian citizens who finished their med schools in the US can use the OPT year to get everything done. Google this if you want more details.

Also, on a more personal level, if you do medical school in Canada, you are likely going to do residency in Canada as well for the above reason. By the time you finish all of your training and are free to move to the US, you would have established significant connections in Canada (i.e. meeting a significant other, lots of friends, developed network in the medical community in Canada etc.), so it is very unlikely for you to move to the US then even though you technically can. Therefore, if you want to practice/live in the US, do med school in the US!

 

[ahmadmz]

US medical school wins by far if you want to to practice in the US. Aside from any possible hidden bias US PDs have towards USMD gradues, the biggest problem faced by Canadian MD grads who wish to obtain residency in the states is that there is not enough time to complete all the qualifications to start your residency on time. But Canadian citizens who finished their med schools in the US can use the OPT year to get everything done. Google this if you want more details.

Also, on a more personal level, if you do medical school in Canada, you are likely going to do residency in Canada as well for the above reason. By the time you finish all of your training and are free to move to the US, you would have established significant connections in Canada (i.e. meeting a significant other, lots of friends, developed network in the medical community in Canada etc.), so it is very unlikely for you to move to the US then even though you technically can. Therefore, if you want to practice/live in the US, do med school in the US!

Thank you for your input! Really appreciate it! Can I ask you if you are from Canada or US? Just curious if you have had similar experience by chance?

Also another question. Right now I have some II from US MD schools and an acceptance from US DO school. Assuming worst case scenario that I don’t get acceptance in a US MD school, would you still suggest pursuing US DO school over Canadian MD if my goal is to do residency in US?

Also what is OPT?

Thank you for your help!!!

 

[efle]

I won't be getting any financial aid packages as those are only offered to US residents/citizens. So the tuition numbers I posted are what I will be facing...

Canadians can't get merit scholarships? The strong stats you mentioned above are what made me say wait to see the actual costs, could be given $$ by a US school to bring it to similar price range

 

[mellie0]

OPT stands for optional practical training. It’s a one-year work permit to work in the US after you complete an educational degree. You need to have an actual job related to your degree during that year, so I don’t think you could use that. I don’t know why summergirl suggested it.

 

[mellie0]

I’d say wait until the end of the cycle and decide off of your actual acceptances. If all you got are acceptances to schools in Canada, then do that. This is a process that doesn’t really allow you to be picky. Do whatever is most convenient once you’ve officially been accepted.

 

[ahmadmz]

I’d say wait until the end of the cycle and decide off of your actual acceptances. If all you got are acceptances to schools in Canada, then do that. This is a process that doesn’t really allow you to be picky. Do whatever is most convenient once you’ve officially been accepted.

I understand what you’re saying as that makes the most logical sense. But what I’m saying is if I’m accepted at a US MD school then should I even attend a Canadian interview? Since I’m working in US these days, I’m just trying to figure out if taking time off and traveling expenses would be worth it if I may not even attend a Canadian school.

 

[efle]

I understand what you’re saying as that makes the most logical sense. But what I’m saying is if I’m accepted at a US MD school then should I even attend a Canadian interview? Since I’m working in US these days, I’m just trying to figure out if taking time off and traveling expenses would be worth it if I may not even attend a Canadian school.

Often you don't learn of merit $ from schools until much later than admit decision (e.g. admitting in autumn and finances released in April). So you should go to the Canadian interviews unless you're told of scholarship money early. Taking on $350,000 (much more, really, with interest) is almost double what the typical indebted USMD graduate takes on. I'd probably go the Canadian route if that was really the cost you were looking at.

I should add, I think many schools require international admits to have huge amounts of cash in the bank before allowing them to matriculate (like, several years worth of COA upfront, 100k+). They know you can't get US federal loans and want to see proof you can afford the full degree. Would you even be able to get that squared away to attend a US school?

 

[NotASerialKiller]

I understand what you’re saying as that makes the most logical sense. But what I’m saying is if I’m accepted at a US MD school then should I even attend a Canadian interview? Since I’m working in US these days, I’m just trying to figure out if taking time off and traveling expenses would be worth it if I may not even attend a Canadian school.

There are a lot of question marks that make that hard to answer. You have time to write the USMLE at Canadian med schools (many people in my class are doing that), but it's hard to say how much of a disadvantage you're at when applying for residency. Basically the more competitive the specialty the more it will likely matter. I know you said you like emerg but you don't know what will appeal to/repel you when you get a better sense of it in med school, and that's a big reason to just go to a US school in case you fall in love with ortho.

Also, are you absolutely sure your family will stay in the US long-term (it sounds like the move was somewhat recent)? You may not be able to choose where you go for both med school and residency, so 10 years down the line you want to be sure that your opinion would be the same even if your siblings have spread out, for example. If your family isn't as concentrated as it is now and your folks are in a city with a tough job market for your specialty, you could end up just as long a flight away as if you worked in a Canadian city. If there's any chance you might be willing to stay in Canada (BC weather is nice!) I wouldn't pass up a Canadian interview for an incredibly cheaper education in an objectively superior country.

 

[ahmadmz]

Thank you for your input! Really appreciate it! Can I ask you if you are from Canada or US? Just curious if you have had similar experience by chance?

Also another question. Right now I have some II from US MD schools and an acceptance from US DO school. Assuming worst case scenario that I don’t get acceptance in a US MD school, would you still suggest pursuing US DO school over Canadian MD if my goal is to do residency in US?

Also what is OPT?

Thank you for your help!!!

@summergirl Hey in case you missed it, could you help me with this. Thanks!

 

[Davemed]

There are a lot of question marks that make that hard to answer. You have time to write the USMLE at Canadian med schools (many people in my class are doing that), but it's hard to say how much of a disadvantage you're at when applying for residency. Basically the more competitive the specialty the more it will likely matter. I know you said you like emerg but you don't know what will appeal to/repel you when you get a better sense of it in med school, and that's a big reason to just go to a US school in case you fall in love with ortho.

Also, are you absolutely sure your family will stay in the US long-term (it sounds like the move was somewhat recent)? You may not be able to choose where you go for both med school and residency, so 10 years down the line you want to be sure that your opinion would be the same even if your siblings have spread out, for example. If your family isn't as concentrated as it is now and your folks are in a city with a tough job market for your specialty, you could end up just as long a flight away as if you worked in a Canadian city. If there's any chance you might be willing to stay in Canada (BC weather is nice!) I wouldn't pass up a Canadian interview for an incredibly cheaper education in an objectively superior country.

Wow!!! Can't help but respond to this comment - "I wouldn't pass up a Canadian interview for an incredibly cheaper education in an objectively superior country." This is the height of hypocrisy. Canadians applying to US schools drool at the prospect of living and earning in the U.S. What is the number of Canadian students wanting to pursue an MD at US schools? In contrast, how many US students want to pursue a medical education in Canada? A superior country is one where there is more immigration than emigration. And it is a fact that a significantly larger percentage of the Canadian population seeks a future in the US than the percentage of US population seeking a future in Canada.

 

[NotASerialKiller]

Wow!!! Can't help but respond to this comment - "I wouldn't pass up a Canadian interview for an incredibly cheaper education in an objectively superior country." This is the height of hypocrisy. Canadians applying to US schools drool at the prospect of living and earning in the U.S. What is the number of Canadian students wanting to pursue an MD at US schools? In contrast, how many US students want to pursue a medical education in Canada? A superior country is one where there is more immigration than emigration. And it is a fact that a significantly larger percentage of the Canadian population seeks a future in the US than the percentage of US population seeking a future in Canada.

1) No one else responded with anger because my comment was obviously a light-hearted joke

2) I don't think you know what hypocrisy means. That little rant just showed that you think that USA > Canada not Canada > USA. By that logic it would be "hypocritical" of a short person to say they're taller than a tall person (spoiler: it's not)

3) Trying to compare countries to see which is "superior" is as childish as getting into an argument about whether my dad could beat up your dad (spoiler: he could). That's also why my joke was obviously a joke, because only a small petty person would do that (spoiler: you)

I hope this has been informative!

 

[Davemed]

1) No one else responded with anger because my comment was obviously a light-hearted joke

2) I don't think you know what hypocrisy means. That little rant just showed that you think that USA > Canada not Canada > USA. By that logic it would be "hypocritical" of a short person to say they're taller than a tall person (spoiler: it's not)

3) Trying to compare countries to see which is "superior" is as childish as getting into an argument about whether my dad could beat up your dad (spoiler: he could). That's also why my joke was obviously a joke, because only a small petty person would do that (spoiler: you)

I hope this has been informative!

I wouldn't want to get into a "Is the US better or Canada?" discussion. As a Canadian, you love your country, and as an American, I love mine. We are both fortunate to be living in great countries.

1. Reason for my post - It seemed ludicrous to me that someone could claim Canada was better than the US and yet apply to a US med school. (Per your post on Sep 27, 2017, you did apply to a school in the US). That is hypocrisy. Definition of hypocrisy: the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.I googled it, not my definition.

2. If your comment was lighthearted as you say, I will accept that. I am also not the angry person whose response includes phases like "That little rant", "my dad could beat up your dad (spoiler: he could)", and "small petty person would do that (spoiler: you)". Your choice of words, not mine.

3. Having visited Canada thrice, I can say without hesitation that Quebec City is the most beautiful city that I have been to. So, nothing but positive vibes about Canada.

I have made my points and will not post further on this topic. And for all Canadian students wanting to pursue an MD in the US, I extend a warm welcome. The world needs healers. Best wishes.

 

[Davemed]

Australia is the only country that the USA has a negative immigration rate with as more Americans move there than Australians move here; therefore Australia is superior to the USA according to posts in this thread.

Good point. The Americans immigrating to Australia probably feel it is a better country than theirs for them to establish their roots. To each his own.

Here are some interesting quotes from the site: Tony Blair Quote

Blair did indeed utter a version of the adage now laid at his feet, even if it was worded and arranged a bit differently. In January 2003, during his address to British ambassadors in London, he said

First, we should remain the closest ally of the US, and as allies influence them to continue broadening their agenda. We are the ally of the US not because they are powerful, but because we share their values. I am not surprised by anti-Americanism; but it is a foolish indulgence. For all their faults and all nations have them, the US are a force for good; they have liberal and democratic traditions of which any nation can be proud. I sometimes think it is a good rule of thumb to ask of a country: are people trying to get into it or out of it? It’s not a bad guide to what sort of country it is.

While the PM’s remarks are not an exact match for the wording now attributed to him, the substance of the two is the same. However, that substance had been given voice to before by various people. Blair was far from the first to offer the observation about judging a country’s worth by looking at how many are trying to get in and how many are trying to get out.

In 1992, the rejoinder’s central idea was expressed by political commentator George Will, when he suggested it as a “gate test” indicator:
Most of all, America passes the critical gate test. Open the gate and see where people go — in or out. This is still the country people flock to.

Political writer Timothy Garton Ash put it to use in 1994 in the journal Foreign Affairs:

The third dimension of power has to do with the overall attractiveness of a particular society, culture and way of life. Its crudest measure is the number of people inside a country who want to get out compared to the number outside who want to get in. (One might call this the Statue of Liberty test.)

In 1996, it was posted online to a number of newsgroups as:

One of the best indicators of what makes a country great is the number of people who want to get out compared to the number who want to get in. On that scale, America is on the top of the list.

And before, any Canadian takes umbrage, here is an unequivocal statement from me: Canada is a great country and a magnet for immigrants.