Canadian Student- What are my chances?

[PeculiarPanda]

Hi SDN I'm a Canadian student looking at applying to USDO and USMD this year. My fellow Canadians over at premed101 forums told me to post here for a better idea in terms of my chances into the programs.

Since this is the USDO forum, I was wondering what your opinions are regarding my chances.



I graduated with a Cell Bio degree and my gpa trend is fairly upward.

1st year: 3.1 GPA

2nd: 3.9 GPA

3rd: 3.95 GPA

4th: 3.81 GPA

I kind of fell off the fourth year but Im hoping the last 3 years are strong enough overall to compensate.

My current mcat score is a 512 (87%): C/P (129), CARS (127), B/B(127), P/S(127)

I don't know if that's competitive or not in US, but I am rewriting it in 1 month since my cars score is too low to be competitive in Canada. Im hoping for a 516, with a cars of 129.

My EC are average:

VP for university club (couple years)

Volunteer at Rescue Shelter

Volunteer at 2 hospitals (patient oriented)

Coach basketball (>1+ year)

Coached soccer (>1+year)

Help manage Soccer Co-Ed Rec league (schedules/scorekeeping)

Just signed up to volunteer in distress center (I guess it wont count towards US app)

Got some research background

Working with people with disabilities

and thousands of hours of work experience (mostly retail)



Anyway, Its May 22nd, and I just started my AACOMOS application. Is it worth finishing it and applying to some schools? (5-6)




A tremendous thank you for taking your time out to help me.

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[murgatroyd]

My MCAT was higher but your GPA is MUCH better than mine and I got a couple acceptances (and my applications were complete in late August/early September), so I'd say you're in good shape.

 

[JibsGuy52]

You will get a DO acceptance for sure. MD chances not the greatest.

 

[Hannah Faulkner]

Your GPA is good and with MCAT score your chances are fairly good

 

[Money4MyHoney]

Definitely apply DO

 

[PeculiarPanda]

You will get a DO acceptance for sure. MD chances not the greatest.

Thanks for your input. What would be competitive for USMD?

 

[PeculiarPanda]

My MCAT was higher but your GPA is MUCH better than mine and I got a couple acceptances (and my applications were complete in late August/early September), so I'd say you're in good shape.

Congrats!! Im looking to apply mid June. The only thing is, Im not quite sure if USDO will let me go back to Canada once im done.

 

[JibsGuy52]

Thanks for your input. What would be competitive for USMD?

Internationals need Harvard/ Stanford level stats for MDs. As for your doubts about DOs, you can fully practice in Canada if you desire in the future.

 

[splashbrothers89]

Hey, I'm also applying to DO schools as a Canadian Applicant (UWO). I just have a few questions:
1) Can anyone confirm that AACOMAS converts 80-100 to a 4.0, 70-79= 3.0, and so on? On their website it says that 80-89 is a 3.0 which seems really harsh but I don't know if it's different for canadians. I do know AMCAS does do that conversion.
2) If they do, my AACOMAS GPA would be a 3.78 and my MCAT is a 507 (128/123/130/126). Do you guys think I have a shot at DO schools with a low CARS?

Any input is appreciated!

 

[JibsGuy52]

Hi OP. Fellow UWO alumni here and just accepted a DO school with similar stats. You are correct in the conversion. Aim for MSU(if you can afford it), unecom, touros, mucom,nova to name a few.

 

[PeculiarPanda]

My MCAT was higher but your GPA is MUCH better than mine and I got a couple acceptances (and my applications were complete in late August/early September), so I'd say you're in good shape.

Did you also apply as a Canadian/International?

 

[Canuck10]

I'm Canadian, but have my American Permanent Residency (green card) and am starting at a DO school in about 2 months. Your stats are better than mine were, my ECs might edge yours a tiny bit. My biggest issue I found was the fact that I'm a Canadian citizen. A lot of schools don't take International students, and the ones that do, don't take very many.
As for practicing in Canada as a DO, I have looked fairly heavily in to it and found this (source is AOA International Licensure Summary):
Province Scope of pracitise Requirements for Licensure
Alberta Unlimited. LMCC, COMLEX, USMLE, accepted for licensure.
British Columbia Unlimited. LMCC, COMLEX, USMLE, FLEX, NBME accepted for licensure.
Manitoba Unlimited. US License recognized
New Brunswick Unlimited. LMCC, COMLEX, accepted for licensure. DOs registered in Maine accepted for licensure.
Newfoundland Unlimited. US License recognized
NW Territories Unlimited. US License recognized
Nova Scotia Unlimited. LMCC and COMLEX accepted for licensure.
Ontario Unlimited. LMCC, COMLEX, and USMLE accepted for licensure.
Prince Edward Island Unlimited.
Quebec Unlimited. 1 year GME in Quebec & French fluency required. LMCC and COMLEX accepted for licensure
Saskatchewan Unlimited.
Yukon Territory Unlimited. US License recognized

I have no idea if I will end up practicing in the States or back in Canada, but knowing that I have the option to practice in either country made choosing to go DO much, much easier.

 

[738177]

I'm Canadian, but have my American Permanent Residency (green card) and am starting at a DO school in about 2 months. Your stats are better than mine were, my ECs might edge yours a tiny bit. My biggest issue I found was the fact that I'm a Canadian citizen. A lot of schools don't take International students, and the ones that do, don't take very many.
As for practicing in Canada as a DO, I have looked fairly heavily in to it and found this (source is AOA International Licensure Summary):
Province Scope of pracitise Requirements for Licensure
Alberta Unlimited. LMCC, COMLEX, USMLE, accepted for licensure.
British Columbia Unlimited. LMCC, COMLEX, USMLE, FLEX, NBME accepted for licensure.
Manitoba Unlimited. US License recognized
New Brunswick Unlimited. LMCC, COMLEX, accepted for licensure. DOs registered in Maine accepted for licensure.
Newfoundland Unlimited. US License recognized
NW Territories Unlimited. US License recognized
Nova Scotia Unlimited. LMCC and COMLEX accepted for licensure.
Ontario Unlimited. LMCC, COMLEX, and USMLE accepted for licensure.
Prince Edward Island Unlimited.
Quebec Unlimited. 1 year GME in Quebec & French fluency required. LMCC and COMLEX accepted for licensure
Saskatchewan Unlimited.
Yukon Territory Unlimited. US License recognized

I have no idea if I will end up practicing in the States or back in Canada, but knowing that I have the option to practice in either country made choosing to go DO much, much easier.

All of this is only after finishing a DO residency in the states right?
As i understand it, you can't apply to a Canadian residency being a DO considering that they're IMG's in all provinces except Quebec.

 

[Canuck10]

All of this is only after finishing a DO residency in the states right?
As i understand it, you can't apply to a Canadian residency being a DO considering that they're IMG's in all provinces except Quebec.

From what I have read (I may have interpreted it wrong, so anyone feel free to correct me), IMGs are eligible to apply to Canadian residencies but hardly any programs take IMGs for their residency. You're much, much better off doing an American residency (and fellowship if you choose), and then moving to Canada to practice. You have to follow Pathway 4 | Pathway 4 – IMG with US Postgraduate Training and Certification | Policy | Policies & Publications | College of Physicians and Surgeons of Ontario in order to become fully licensed in Canada. It certainly isn't the most straight forward process, but it can be done and has become much easier to do in the last 5-10 years.

 

[738177]

From what I have read (I may have interpreted it wrong, so anyone feel free to correct me), IMGs are eligible to apply to Canadian residencies but hardly any programs take IMGs for their residency. You're much, much better off doing an American residency (and fellowship if you choose), and then moving to Canada to practice. You have to follow Pathway 4 | Pathway 4 – IMG with US Postgraduate Training and Certification | Policy | Policies & Publications | College of Physicians and Surgeons of Ontario in order to become fully licensed in Canada. It certainly isn't the most straight forward process, but it can be done and has become much easier to do in the last 5-10 years.

You're right. Perhaps i wasn't clear with my post. This is what i gathered until now..
The bolded applies to DO grads as well. DO = IMG when you're applying to Canadian residencies (except Quebec).
So for a DO student planning to head back to Canada, the best route is to finish your US ACGME residency first and head back using Pathway 3 (which looks the same to me as pathway 4 aka the regular IMG pathway). I was curious how DO's are doing statistically coming back to the Canada after finishing their US residency..but i'm guessing that's a hard stat to find.
In any case, if you wanna practice in Canada, the smoothest transition is to do a US FM residency because it's 3 years long in the states vs 2 years in Canada. If the length of residency for a particular speciality is longer in Canada, you have to do fellowships in US before you return to Canada to "make up" the years so to speak.
Anyway feel free to correct me as well!

 

[Canuck10]

You're right. Perhaps i wasn't clear with my post. This is what i gathered until now..
The bolded applies to DO grads as well. DO = IMG when you're applying to Canadian residencies (except Quebec).
So for a DO student planning to head back to Canada, the best route is to finish your US ACGME residency first and head back using Pathway 3 (which looks the same to me as pathway 4 aka the regular IMG pathway). I was curious how DO's are doing statistically coming back to the Canada after finishing their US residency..but i'm guessing that's a hard stat to find.
In any case, if you wanna practice in Canada, the smoothest transition is to do a US FM residency because it's 3 years long in the states vs 2 years in Canada. If the length of residency for a particular speciality is longer in Canada, you have to do fellowships in US before you return to Canada to "make up" the years so to speak.
Anyway feel free to correct me as well!

I would be extremely interested in any stats about how DOs do back in Canada, but like you said I think the stats would be next to impossible to find. I have been living in the States for about 6 years now and when I was back in Canada never really paid attention to MD vs DO, so I have no idea if there is any stigma against DOs back home. Do you have any info on that? I know down in the States the playing field is becoming more and more level inside the medical community and I think most patients don't care whether you have MD or DO after your name, as long as you're "Doctor So-and-so" and can treat whatever ailment they have, they are happy.

 

[annieJ]

I would be extremely interested in any stats about how DOs do back in Canada, but like you said I think the stats would be next to impossible to find. I have been living in the States for about 6 years now and when I was back in Canada never really paid attention to MD vs DO, so I have no idea if there is any stigma against DOs back home. Do you have any info on that? I know down in the States the playing field is becoming more and more level inside the medical community and I think most patients don't care whether you have MD or DO after your name, as long as you're "Doctor So-and-so" and can treat whatever ailment they have, they are happy.

I don't have any stats but up until last year (I think) DOs were not considered IMGs in Canada. USMDs are still not but they did change the rules for DOs which could be a sign of increasing stigma. I do also know a few practicing DOs in Canada including one at my family doctor's office. Of course, that isn't particularly helpful. There is this link: Canadian Osteopathic Association

 

[PeculiarPanda]

I'm Canadian, but have my American Permanent Residency (green card) and am starting at a DO school in about 2 months. Your stats are better than mine were, my ECs might edge yours a tiny bit. My biggest issue I found was the fact that I'm a Canadian citizen. A lot of schools don't take International students, and the ones that do, don't take very many.
As for practicing in Canada as a DO, I have looked fairly heavily in to it and found this (source is AOA International Licensure Summary):
Province Scope of pracitise Requirements for Licensure
Alberta Unlimited. LMCC, COMLEX, USMLE, accepted for licensure.
British Columbia Unlimited. LMCC, COMLEX, USMLE, FLEX, NBME accepted for licensure.
Manitoba Unlimited. US License recognized
New Brunswick Unlimited. LMCC, COMLEX, accepted for licensure. DOs registered in Maine accepted for licensure.
Newfoundland Unlimited. US License recognized
NW Territories Unlimited. US License recognized
Nova Scotia Unlimited. LMCC and COMLEX accepted for licensure.
Ontario Unlimited. LMCC, COMLEX, and USMLE accepted for licensure.
Prince Edward Island Unlimited.
Quebec Unlimited. 1 year GME in Quebec & French fluency required. LMCC and COMLEX accepted for licensure
Saskatchewan Unlimited.
Yukon Territory Unlimited. US License recognized

I have no idea if I will end up practicing in the States or back in Canada, but knowing that I have the option to practice in either country made choosing to go DO much, much easier.

Hey canuck, thanks for your input. Thats reassuring that provinces recognize the COMPLEX exams. Does that mean we dont have to do the additional exams that IMG's are usually subject too? If not, does that mean its easier to come back.

What I'm trying to say is, if we've already completed our COMPLEX I,II,III during our schooling, we dont have to write any additional tests when trying to come back right? So we just finish our residency and apply for registration?

Btw, congrats on your acceptance. What school did you apply to if you dont mind me asking.

 

[PeculiarPanda]

You're right. Perhaps i wasn't clear with my post. This is what i gathered until now..
The bolded applies to DO grads as well. DO = IMG when you're applying to Canadian residencies (except Quebec).
So for a DO student planning to head back to Canada, the best route is to finish your US ACGME residency first and head back using Pathway 3 (which looks the same to me as pathway 4 aka the regular IMG pathway). I was curious how DO's are doing statistically coming back to the Canada after finishing their US residency..but i'm guessing that's a hard stat to find.
In any case, if you wanna practice in Canada, the smoothest transition is to do a US FM residency because it's 3 years long in the states vs 2 years in Canada. If the length of residency for a particular speciality is longer in Canada, you have to do fellowships in US before you return to Canada to "make up" the years so to speak.
Anyway feel free to correct me as well!

Why is pathway 3 the same as pathway 4? Should it not be an easier path since you're doing your ACGME residency which is approved by Canada?

 

[nonamesleft]

Hi SDN I'm a Canadian student looking at applying to USDO and USMD this year. My fellow Canadians over at premed101 forums told me to post here for a better idea in terms of my chances into the programs.

Since this is the USDO forum, I was wondering what your opinions are regarding my chances.



I graduated with a Cell Bio degree and my gpa trend is fairly upward.

1st year: 3.1 GPA

2nd: 3.9 GPA

3rd: 3.95 GPA

4th: 3.81 GPA

I kind of fell off the fourth year but Im hoping the last 3 years are strong enough overall to compensate.

My current mcat score is a 512 (87%): C/P (129), CARS (127), B/B(127), P/S(127)

I don't know if that's competitive or not in US, but I am rewriting it in 1 month since my cars score is too low to be competitive in Canada. Im hoping for a 516, with a cars of 129.

My EC are average:

VP for university club (couple years)

Volunteer at Rescue Shelter

Volunteer at 2 hospitals (patient oriented)

Coach basketball (>1+ year)

Coached soccer (>1+year)

Help manage Soccer Co-Ed Rec league (schedules/scorekeeping)

Just signed up to volunteer in distress center (I guess it wont count towards US app)

Got some research background

Working with people with disabilities

and thousands of hours of work experience (mostly retail)



Anyway, Its May 22nd, and I just started my AACOMOS application. Is it worth finishing it and applying to some schools? (5-6)




A tremendous thank you for taking your time out to help me.

With ~3.7 and 512, why are you not applying USMD?

 

[738177]

Why is pathway 3 the same as pathway 4? Should it not be an easier path since you're doing your ACGME residency which is approved by Canada?

I think Pathway 3 and 4 are referring to US board certified (after doing ACGME residencies) DO's and IMG's respectively.
I just skimmed through the link provided by canuck. It's possible I that i may have missed something.

 

[Canuck10]

Hey canuck, thanks for your input. Thats reassuring that provinces recognize the COMPLEX exams. Does that mean we dont have to do the additional exams that IMG's are usually subject too? If not, does that mean its easier to come back.

What I'm trying to say is, if we've already completed our COMPLEX I,II,III during our schooling, we dont have to write any additional tests when trying to come back right? So we just finish our residency and apply for registration?

Btw, congrats on your acceptance. What school did you apply to if you dont mind me asking.

From what I understand (and again, someone correct me if I'm wrong), basically all of the medical governing bodies in Canada decided that anyone who receives a medical degree (MD or DO), passes all of their boards, and completes their residencies in the U.S. doesn't have to pass the Canadian boards. All that Canada requires is that you are supervised for a year in Canada while practicing and pass an assessment by the Registration Committee (not sure who or what they are). I think where it can get a little complicated is certain specialties in Canada require a different number of years in residency than American specialties require. Like Toothache said earlier, if a certain Canadian specialty requires an extra year in residency than is required in America, then you have to do a fellowship to "make up for" that extra year requirement.

Thank you! I applied to quite a few schools, both MD and DO because I have a green card and for application purposes was considered a non-international applicant. I'll be starting at ACOM which doesn't accept international students.

 

[PeculiarPanda]

With ~3.7 and 512, why are you not applying USMD?

Oh I am. I just dont think I'll get accepted anywhere realistically since I'm an international. Also, its a bummer that my first year doesnt get dropped (like CAD schools) or I would have a 3.9 avg. Do US med schools consider the huge upward bump in my GPA from first year onwards?

 

[PeculiarPanda]

From what I understand (and again, someone correct me if I'm wrong), basically all of the medical governing bodies in Canada decided that anyone who receives a medical degree (MD or DO), passes all of their boards, and completes their residencies in the U.S. doesn't have to pass the Canadian boards. All that Canada requires is that you are supervised for a year in Canada while practicing and pass an assessment by the Registration Committee (not sure who or what they are). I think where it can get a little complicated is certain specialties in Canada require a different number of years in residency than American specialties require. Like Toothache said earlier, if a certain Canadian specialty requires an extra year in residency than is required in America, then you have to do a fellowship to "make up for" that extra year requirement.

Thank you! I applied to quite a few schools, both MD and DO because I have a green card and for application purposes was considered a non-international applicant. I'll be starting at ACOM which doesn't accept international students.

That would be great if that was the case! I really hope it is. Goodluck at ACOM.

I kind of shot myself in the foot by not taking 2 ENGL classes during my undergrad (most CAD schools dont require it anymore) so now I'm out of the running for a bunch of USDO and USMD. On top of that, MSUCOM which apparently accepts the greatest number of CAD students (and a pretty decent tuition rate compared to others) has 2 ENGL requirements :'(.

 

[Canuck10]

That would be great if that was the case! I really hope it is. Goodluck at ACOM.

I kind of shot myself in the foot by not taking 2 ENGL classes during my undergrad (most CAD schools dont require it anymore) so now I'm out of the running for a bunch of USDO and USMD. On top of that, MSUCOM which apparently accepts the greatest number of CAD students (and a pretty decent tuition rate compared to others) has 2 ENGL requirements :'(.

Good luck to you too. When you get an interview, make sure to bring up that you're Canadian and that being Canadian and growing up in a different culture than America provides you with the skills to relate and communicate more effectively with the diverse group of patients that you'll encounter in medicine. I emphasized that a lot and all the feedback I got about it was very positive. Again, good luck!

 

[nonamesleft]

Good luck to you too. When you get an interview, make sure to bring up that you're Canadian and that being Canadian and growing up in a different culture than America provides you with the skills to relate and communicate more effectively with the diverse group of patients that you'll encounter in medicine. I emphasized that a lot and all the feedback I got about it was very positive. Again, good luck!

Hmm.. I think this depends on interviewer, and on your phrasing/preparedness. I got in "trouble" with one interviewer, and ended up in a debate about health care systems, which people had the "right" to medical care, and what types of medical care were "privileges" or "luxuries."

 

[splashbrothers89]

Can any Canadian applicants tell me if it took longer than the normal 10 days for transcripts to be recieved after being sent by your school. They have not received mine yet, and I am wondering if this has to do with border and customs. Nevertheless, do you think it will be late if I get verified by late June? How late is too late for being verified?

 

[firstaidforever]

Wowza, those stats and extracurricular are out of this world for DO. You should be getting into US MD as an international with those stats.

 

[PeculiarPanda]

Wowza, those stats and extracurricular are out of this world for DO. You should be getting into US MD as an international with those stats.

Are you referring to me?

Thanks for your encouraging words. Studying for my MCAT is holding back my application though. Realistically I'm probably submitting end of June

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[firstaidforever]

Are you referring to me?

Thanks for your encouraging words. Studying for my MCAT is holding back my application though. Realistically I'm probably submitting end of June

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

Absolutely. Definitely make sure spend an app in to SUNYs, Rosalind Franklin, and Wayne State (high tuition though). There should be a list of Canadian-friendly schools hovering out there.

 

[Butterfly_27]

Congrats!! Im looking to apply mid June. The only thing is, Im not quite sure if USDO will let me go back to Canada once im done.

It's definitely possible, but very difficult. Chances are very slim to practice back in Canada. All graduates, even if Canadian citizens, are considered IMGs. So your chances of practicing in Canada are the same as a South African Doctor or an Irish Doctor.
I read that it was on average 8% acceptance and it depends on your specialization.
If you want to practice in Canada, its best to go a Canadian Medical school.

 

[JibsGuy52]

Agree. Chances of residency in Canada are basically 0. Although, getting a residency in US then going back, 100% doable, especially if you are in primary care.

** EDIT: This is the key advantage of a DO degree opposed to carib/irish grad. These graduates fight for the slim pickings of left over US residency slots and risk going unmatched.
Last year Canadian DO's had a 100% match rate.

 

[JibsGuy52]

Even for DOs applying via CARMs, match rate was ~50% couple of years back (out of single digit applicants). Barely any DOs feel the necessity to go through the mess of getting a Canadian residency.

Exactly. With the way medicine is going in places like Ontario, what the hell is the point of even going back to Canada?

 

[hemeoncolo]

Exactly. With the way medicine is going in places like Ontario, what the hell is the point of even going back to Canada?

Care to expand on what you think is wrong with the direction that medicine in Ontario is going? I am very interested in this as I hope to practice there one day, as many of my friends and family are there. Thank you!

 

[JibsGuy52]

Care to expand on what you think is wrong with the direction that medicine in Ontario is going? I am very interested in this as I hope to practice there one day, as many of my friends and family are there. Thank you!

You can read many articles, or simply talk to a regular every doctor in Ontario. I've chatted with FIVE (!) primary care physicians who said they would not enter primary care in Ontario if the situation with our liberal government continues. Who knows, maybe this will change with a blue government.

Here are some articles to read on the dire situation:

Ottawa’s new tax measures unfairly target many doctors
Care Not Cuts

Straight up, Ontario is definitely not an ideal place to practice medicine RIGHT NOW.