Cardiac observation unit

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Interpolfanclub

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you guys using cardiac observation units at your institutions? if so how? we're taking low risk, atypical chest pain and then getting 2 hour delta mb + dobutamine or adenosine or treadmill stress.

i've been trying to find some EM literature on this but haven't turned up a great deal just yet.

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We have an OBS unit where the typical cardiac stay involves two sets of enzymes 6-8hr apart and then a stress. Most stress tests are of the exercise variety, but we also do pharm/imaging/nuclear/echo if the situation requires it.

We are also starting to do coronary CTAs for the low risk rule out.
 
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We have an OBS unit where the typical cardiac stay involves two sets of enzymes 6-8hr apart and then a stress. Most stress tests are of the exercise variety, but we also do pharm/imaging/nuclear/echo if the situation requires it.

We are also starting to do coronary CTAs for the low risk rule out.

These cardiac CT's are going to likely cause more malignancy 20 years from now in these "low risk" folks that just get scanned because than I can even imagine.

One of our radiologists spoke to us recently and was discussing the 1000's of x-ray equivalents of radiation a CTA of the coronaries requires and all for people you DON'T think have disease.

I understand the concept, but if they are positive then what......you can't fix the problem. you then have to get an angio for stents further eval which requires more radiation and more investigation.

Crazy.......I hope this goes away. I hope cardiac MRI and other things become more standard/faster/worthwhile because scanning a 35/yo guy who has "chest pain" with normal EKG/enzymes and atypical story seems like he should go home NOT get a billion dollar hiroshimo exam to show you that he MIGHT have something that requires ANOTHER test to fix what you MIGHT have found.

(that last part was a little wordy).

ljust my two cents.

later
 
I think this radiation risk of CT's is being exaggerated. Yes, there is a risk. However, it's theoretical based on data from Hiroshima. It's theorized that the risk of malignancy is only 1 in 25,000 based solely on a CT. The risk of death from a central line is higher than that when you consider death from line-associated sepsis, pneumothorax, etc.

Secondly, the radiation from a CT scan is less than from a radioactive nucleotide. So a CTA of the coronaries would be less radiation than the technetium scan. This is why CT's are replacing VQ's in pregnant patients -- the technetium stays around for 24 hours.
 
I think this radiation risk of CT's is being exaggerated. Yes, there is a risk. However, it's theoretical based on data from Hiroshima. It's theorized that the risk of malignancy is only 1 in 25,000 based solely on a CT. The risk of death from a central line is higher than that when you consider death from line-associated sepsis, pneumothorax, etc.

Secondly, the radiation from a CT scan is less than from a radioactive nucleotide. So a CTA of the coronaries would be less radiation than the technetium scan. This is why CT's are replacing VQ's in pregnant patients -- the technetium stays around for 24 hours.

Very interesting thoughts. I knew about the CT PE protocol, but the slices and timing of the CTA Coronaries is different. Would love to see some data.
 
One thing that rankled me when I was a resident was when attending would refer to a paper, not letting on that they were the ones who had written it. This was acutely punctuated when I was pointed to a paper in the JACC that outlined why troponin was the gold standard in MI detection. Next day, I say to the attending, "Oh, I hadn't realized that you had written it".

Well, one day, in conference, we had a cards guy do a presentation on cost-effectiveness of diuresis in an outpatient/ED/obs unit of CHF patients, instead of actual in-patient admissions. This was similar to, but not the same as the CHEER study (as southerndoc alluded to in another thread - who thinks of these names?) - "CHest pain Evaluation in the ER" - at Mt. Sinai (which showed that the evaluation in a chest pain unit was cost effective and efficient - and, yet, even so, the CPU in the MSH ED was closed down a year later anyway). So, the guy is playing it up, going great guns about that, and he says there was a great commentary in the NEJM about it - he then puts it up, and he wrote it! The funny thing is how he presented it, though - there was no false humility or bravado.

In any case, "chest pain unit"s come in various flavors - from the "hit the door, take all comers" types, where STEMI --> hyperventilation/minor trauma to thorax, to observational/23 to 47 hour, heparin and echo/stress testing, to various in-betweens. The problem arises when the "CPU/CEU/CDU" goes from "Chest Pain Unit/Clinical Evaluation Unit/Clinical Decision Unit" to "Can't Decide Unit".
 
We have a chest pain unit that takes up to intermediate risk patients (TIMI 2-4) and we use Coronary CTA (low radiation dose), Cardiac MRI, stress echo or nuclear testing +/- cardiology consultation as necessary.
 
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