Cardiology after nephrology fellowship?

[IMResApplicant]

Hey everyone,
I was hoping to get some of your opinions on an idea I had. I am ultimately interested in Advanced Heart Failure Cardiology. My problem is that I am a US IMG from a mid-higher tier community hospital program in NYC, so my chances for the traditional cards then hf fellowship are slim. I was planning to do a nephrology fellowship at a large research institution to get some publications as nephro and cardiology have unique common grounds in heart failure patients. After interdepartmental research at this large institute I would then plan to then apply to cardiology. Yes it is a lot of training. Blah blah blah. It’s something I want to do. A chief year is not really on the table either since I don’t see the value of being a secretary for a year without much improvement to my CV when I can get a stellar CV boost from a 2-year nephro program. Any thoughts?

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[deleted980918]

Hey everyone,
I was hoping to get some of your opinions on an idea I had. I am ultimately interested in Advanced Heart Failure Cardiology. My problem is that I am a US IMG from a mid-higher tier community hospital program in NYC, so my chances for the traditional cards then hf fellowship are slim. I was planning to do a nephrology fellowship at a large research institution to get some publications as nephro and cardiology have unique common grounds in heart failure patients. After interdepartmental research at this large institute I would then plan to then apply to cardiology. Yes it is a lot of training. Blah blah blah. It’s something I want to do. A chief year is not really on the table either since I don’t see the value of being a secretary for a year without much improvement to my CV when I can get a stellar CV boost from a 2-year nephro program. Any thoughts?

Is there a in house cardiology fellowship spot? If so doing a chief year is prob much higher yield than a nephro fellowship

 

[timpview]

“Yes it is a lot of training. Blah blah blah. It’s something I want to do”

seems like that answers it. Good luck

 

[IMResApplicant]

Is there a in house cardiology fellowship spot? If so doing a chief year is prob much higher yield than a nephro fellowship

There is, but they are very lets say..biased.. as to those whom they select

 

[IMResApplicant]

“Yes it is a lot of training. Blah blah blah. It’s something I want to do”

seems like that answers it. Good luck

Just wanted to put it out on the airwaves before someone brought it up

 

[Sam1987]

Hey everyone,
I was hoping to get some of your opinions on an idea I had. I am ultimately interested in Advanced Heart Failure Cardiology. My problem is that I am a US IMG from a mid-higher tier community hospital program in NYC, so my chances for the traditional cards then hf fellowship are slim. I was planning to do a nephrology fellowship at a large research institution to get some publications as nephro and cardiology have unique common grounds in heart failure patients. After interdepartmental research at this large institute I would then plan to then apply to cardiology. Yes it is a lot of training. Blah blah blah. It’s something I want to do. A chief year is not really on the table either since I don’t see the value of being a secretary for a year without much improvement to my CV when I can get a stellar CV boost from a 2-year nephro program. Any thoughts?

It’s not bad idea but I’m not sure how that will help you to get cardiology
you can consider heart failure non acgme fellowship .. or research in big places such as Cleverland or mayo ..

 

[deleted980918]

There is, but they are very lets say..biased.. as to those whom they select

 

[deleted980918]

There is, but they are very lets say..biased.. as to those whom they select

if you were the chose chief resident, do u think they will let their chief resident go unmatched?

 

[docimg]

Hey everyone,
I was hoping to get some of your opinions on an idea I had. I am ultimately interested in Advanced Heart Failure Cardiology. My problem is that I am a US IMG from a mid-higher tier community hospital program in NYC, so my chances for the traditional cards then hf fellowship are slim. I was planning to do a nephrology fellowship at a large research institution to get some publications as nephro and cardiology have unique common grounds in heart failure patients. After interdepartmental research at this large institute I would then plan to then apply to cardiology. Yes it is a lot of training. Blah blah blah. It’s something I want to do. A chief year is not really on the table either since I don’t see the value of being a secretary for a year without much improvement to my CV when I can get a stellar CV boost from a 2-year nephro program. Any thoughts?

IMHO, doing a year of non ACGME advanced cardiac imaging or HF fellowship may be a better use of time in terms of learning cardiology and research productivity. It also may get you a foot in the door for their in-house fellowship. I would advise researching prior institutional track record of such programs and faculty at these programs in terms of helping their non-acgme fellows get placed in a general cardiology fellowship. Basically, you want to know if someone will make a phone call for you.

Nephrology is a very interesting specialty and those two years of fellowship will be very busy for you. But some how I feel it may be frowned upon by PDs in cardiology.

Good luck.

 

[IMResApplicant]

IMHO, doing a year of non ACGME advanced cardiac imaging or HF fellowship may be a better use of time in terms of learning cardiology and research productivity. It also may get you a foot in the door for their in-house fellowship. I would advise researching prior institutional track record of such programs and faculty at these programs in terms of helping their non-acgme fellows get placed in a general cardiology fellowship. Basically, you want to know if someone will make a phone call for you.

Nephrology is a very interesting specialty and those two years of fellowship will be very busy for you. But some how I feel it may be frowned upon by PDs in cardiology.

Good luck.

Thank you for your honest thoughts. I honestly do think the skills and knowledge obtained in nephrology would be very helpful in managing cardiology patients, inpatient and outpatient. Maybe I can see it as I am trying to carve out my own niche in “cardionephrology.” UTSA has a cardiorenal track for their nephrology fellows, UPenn has a cardiorenal clinic, etc. so it cannot be that outlandish

 

[deleted980918]

Thank you for your honest thoughts. I honestly do think the skills and knowledge obtained in nephrology would be very helpful in managing cardiology patients, inpatient and outpatient. Maybe I can see it as I am trying to carve out my own niche in “cardionephrolog.” UTSA has a cardiorenal track for their nephrology fellows, UPenn has a cardiorenal clinic, etc. so it cannot be that outlandish

Doesn’t the heart perfuse every organ of the body?
I guess you can make a cardio-neuro track too

 

[IMResApplicant]

Doesn’t the heart perfuse every organ of the body?
I guess you can make a cardio-neuro track too

True but there is a unique physiologic connection between the heart and kidney obviously

 

[nlax30]

I think a chief year or doing one of the non accredited HF year spots would be a better option. Nephro fellowships can be brutal (from what I hear from friends) and I’m not sure what additional time/exposure you’d get on the cardio side. Plus with the funding issue nay make it even more difficult for a cardio program to take you.

 

[aafisahar]

Thank you for your honest thoughts. I honestly do think the skills and knowledge obtained in nephrology would be very helpful in managing cardiology patients, inpatient and outpatient. Maybe I can see it as I am trying to carve out my own niche in “cardionephrology.” UTSA has a cardiorenal track for their nephrology fellows, UPenn has a cardiorenal clinic, etc. so it cannot be that outlandish

nephrologists are only good to dialyze my patients. every time we are on the same case, they basically wrong in every aspect of management of acute heart failure. A trend I've seen at two institutions now is "renal perfusion" blood pressure goals (eg systolic 140), where the actual right thing to do is afterload reduce the absolute **** out of this in order to actually deliver blood to the kidneys. I've seen it dozens of times, hospitalists and renal are spinning their wheels trying to get this cold as ice patient to diurese with just straight lasix first at 40mg, then 60mg, then TID, etc, 4 days later, they call cards (when they should have called on admission). That patient needs significant afterload reduction, and/or inotropes, and aggressive lasix (200mg + 10mg metolazone) in order to decongest them.

Nephrology = gateway to the filter, otherwise, they don't know dick about actual heart failure management.

doing a nephrology fellowship means you'll have to unlearn all the bad habits you picked up along the way. a month on advanced heart failure will teach you a thousand times more than 3 years in nephrology on how to manage cardiorenal syndrome.

 

[shouldigomd]

Nephro would be a waste of time if cardiology is your goal. Really no argument against that....

 

[Scope guy]

first year nephro is brutal. you wont have much time to invest in cardiac research. remember you have to apply early 2nd year nephro fellowship for cardiology fellowship for subsequent year. you wont have much time to publish substantially to boost your CV. HF fellowship or cardiac imaging is a foot in the door for cardiology, one year only and probably help with integrated cardiology practice as non invasive HF specialist

 

[cardiorenal guy]

Hey everyone,
I was hoping to get some of your opinions on an idea I had. I am ultimately interested in Advanced Heart Failure Cardiology. My problem is that I am a US IMG from a mid-higher tier community hospital program in NYC, so my chances for the traditional cards then hf fellowship are slim. I was planning to do a nephrology fellowship at a large research institution to get some publications as nephro and cardiology have unique common grounds in heart failure patients. After interdepartmental research at this large institute I would then plan to then apply to cardiology. Yes it is a lot of training. Blah blah blah. It’s something I want to do. A chief year is not really on the table either since I don’t see the value of being a secretary for a year without much improvement to my CV when I can get a stellar CV boost from a 2-year nephro program. Any thoughts?

So did it work out as you envisioned it? I also have similar thoughts and am thinking of going the same route

 

[NewYorkDoctors]

For comparison I went from renal to PCCM. This was ONLY made possible because I have good relations with both divisions. I matched into nephrology thinking to be the academic guru type. Then after match I did a lot of MICU and pulmonary and felt that I liked that too. Stayed on home program and build connections. Now I am on faculty for renal and pulmonary at the hospital I am at (and i opened a side private practice). This was ONLY made possible due to the connections I had and the fact I published 7 pubmed articles - none of these are RCTs or anything substantial for the PCCM PD and Director while I was in renal fellowship years 1-2.

otherwise, there is NOTHING about doing a nephrology fellowship alone that makes you more competitive for cardiology.

Just do the HF or imaging as a backdoor.


But for inspiration, there is a doctor in one of the major NYC metro areas whose specialties are listed (on the doctors insurance profile - i wont share link to protect privacy) as Cardiovascular Disease, advanced imaging, echo, nuclear, and NEPHROLOGY. So there is a doctor out there who has this combination. Most likely Neph to Cards. Dunno why anyone would go from Cards to Neph. That makes no sense in PP and doesnt even much sense academically unless that doctor had very specific cardiorenal research.

 

[deleted980918]

One of the Nephro fellows I knew in residency tried to do something similar but ended up being a nephrologist and then a hospitalist. I find it hard to believe that doing a full nephrology fellowship will
make you that much more competitive for cardiology, if anything you will have to explain why you took this detour.

 

[Renal_Prometheus]

I hate to break it to you. But doing neph is just a waste of time and will not make you more competitive for cardiology. Doesn't matter how much cardiorenal research you do or what kind of "connections" you think you are establishing at your home institution.

 

[CCM-MD]

Trying to get into cardiology after nephrology is like trying to join Gryffindor after being in Slytherin.

 

[Full Metal IC]

Agree with the other posts - doing a chief year would be higher yield, take less time, and in the meantime you could use the additional time to boost your research productivity. If not possible, non-accredited HF fellowship + doing research during early in the year (and during the remainder of residency) is probably the most high yield in terms of improving chances of matching the following year.

 

[ROBINHO]

I sincerely don’t see any link between nephrology and cardiology. You are better off doing research in cardiology or non accredited fellowship in cardiology. You need more cardiology exposure if you didn’t match first time. Nephrology can be a path to one year critical care.

 

[paki20]

Terrible idea, it'll be an uphill battle if you voluntarily take this path. Do something cardiology related. Chief year does help on your CV. You doing nephrology will actually hurt you if your goal is cardiology fellowship. Nephrology has no prestige left either, one of the least competitive fellowships that often goes unfilled.

 

[djp45]

So did it work out as you envisioned it? I also have similar thoughts and am thinking of going the same route

Did you end up doing this? I'm applying nephrology right now and thinking of doing the same.

 

[Renal_Prometheus]

Did you end up doing this? I'm applying nephrology right now and thinking of doing the same.

I highly doubt anybody can get into cardiology after finishing a nephrology fellowship. And to even have this mindset of doing neph because it’s easy to get in is disrespectful to the specialty. But in the highly warped minds of IMGs, getting any specialty is better than a hospitalist, until years down the road they realize it’s actually worse off financially and lifestyle wise, and then they realize why it’s non-competitive to begin with. This repetitive pattern has played out year after year and nobody seems to have learned the lesson, until it’s too late.