Cardiothoracic DO

[travoltage]

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searched my question, could not find any answers!

how competitive is it for a DO from a osteopathic gen surgery residency to land a acgme cardiothoracic fellowship?

does it happen frequently?
does anybody know of any recent success stories?

 

[UTSouthwestern]

searched my question, could not find any answers!

how competitive is it for a DO from a osteopathic gen surgery residency to land a acgme cardiothoracic fellowship?

does it happen frequently?
does anybody know of any recent success stories?

Yes it does happen. There are two DO's in DFW both of whom went through DO residency and fellowship trained at Texas Heart Institute in Houston.

Both are very successful and very personable and polite, which helps a lot considering the patient population and reimbursement issues they and we face.

 

[DOCTORSAIB]

searched my question, could not find any answers!

how competitive is it for a DO from a osteopathic gen surgery residency to land a acgme cardiothoracic fellowship?

does it happen frequently?
does anybody know of any recent success stories?

I did a rotation in CT surgery as a 3rd year at Deborah Heart & Lung hospital in NJ. One of the attendings was a DO from PCOM. There was only one fellow and he too was a DO who had done his general surgery residency at an osteopathic program.

CT surgery fellowships are struggling to fill these days based on what I've read and heard. Sad considering 10+ years ago only the best and the brightest landed CT fellowships!

 

[DO_Surgeon]

I have researched the topic extensively being that I am a DO in an AOA general surgery residency wanting to do CT surgery. The answer to your question is yes, you can do an AOA general surgery residency followed by an ACGME fellowship, however, it is a little more complicated than you would think. First off AOA general surgery training does not allow you to sit for the American Board of Thoracic Surgery board certification. Thus many programs will not accept you based on this fact alone. Since you are not eligible for the boards, it in a way appears that the program graduated a fellow that did not pass the boards and when the program is reviewed they are "penalized" for graduating a fellow without board certification. The key is finding a fellowship that is willing to take that "hit" and accept your training knowing that you are not going to become board certified through the ABTS. The way around the board certification issue, is you can "petition" the AOA for approval of your ACGME fellowship and become board certified through the AOA Cardiothoracic Boards, thus you will become board certified. It is really frustrating during a time when all you need is a pulse and a respiratory rate to be accepted into CT fellowship, you are limited in the number of programs that you can apply to and be accepted into. I know very little about the one DO CT fellowship at Deborah Heart and Lung Center and would love to hear any information anyone may have about the program. None-the-less I am willing to jump through the hoops, etc in order to find a program and train as a CT surgeon.

 

[Blade28]

Wow, didn't know DOs weren't eligible for the ABTS boards. Thanks for the helpful info.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Wow, didn't know DOs weren't eligible for the ABTS boards. Thanks for the helpful info.

Important to note for any DO doing an osteopathic residency and an allopathic fellowship that they may not be BE without approval from a corresponding AOA training board.

 

[DO_Surgeon]

Important to note for any DO doing an osteopathic residency and an allopathic fellowship that they may not be BE without approval from a corresponding AOA training board.

That is absolutely something to note. Take for example colo-rectal surgery...there is no osteopathic colo-rectal board certification. Thus if you were to complete a colo-rectal fellowship there is no hope for board certification

 

[Blade28]

Brutal!

Maybe something for the pre-meds to consider? (As much as I hate college kids having to plan out their fellowship routes already! 😱 )

 

[Winged Scapula]

Brutal!

Maybe something for the pre-meds to consider? (As much as I hate college kids having to plan out their fellowship routes already! 😱 )

Eh, maybe something for the AOA and AAMC, ACGME, etc. to consider.

Let's end this ridiculousness and devise a system where degrees are equivalent in terms of licensing, training, BE/BC.

And then a system for a national license, or at least widespread recognition of other state board's licensing process.

 

[Blade28]

Let's end this ridiculousness and devise a system where degrees are equivalent in terms of licensing, training, BE/BC.

And then a system for a national license, or at least widespread recognition of other state board's licensing process.

I'll add those to your Christmas wish list. 🙂

 

[Winged Scapula]

I'll add those to your Christmas wish list. 🙂

I'm tempted to say I've been a very good girl, but then someone will accuse me of derailing this thread and this forum!😉

But yes, those things please, and a new set of skis.

 

[beastmaster]

First off AOA general surgery training does not allow you to sit for the American Board of Thoracic Surgery board certification.

can you clarify please.... Which of the following is prohibitting you from sitting for the boards?
a) AOA
b) American osteopathic board of surgery
c) ABTS

 

[Winged Scapula]

can you clarify please.... Which of the following is prohibitting you from sitting for the boards?
a) AOA
b) American osteopathic board of surgery
c) ABTS

C.

All ACGME accredited fellowships which offer Board Certification in a Surgical field require that you are Board Eligible, by the American Board of Surgery, in general surgery.

Thus, you must have completed an ALLOPATHIC general surgery residency to be BE/BC by the ABS and to be eligible to get BC in the ACGME fellowship.

If you have done an OSTEOPATHIC general surgery residency, you are not eligible for BC by the ABS, thus do not meet the basic requirements for BC in the ACGME fellowship program.

Note that there are non ACGME approved fellowships, there are fellowships which do not offer additional BC (ie, Surg Onc is one), and you might be able to get BC in the fellowship if the AOA has a corresponding fellowship (which they do not have in all fields), so all is not necessarily lost..

In a nutshell:

- a DO who completes an osteopathic general surgery residency is BE by the AOBS
- a DO who completes an allopathic general surgery residency is BE by ABS
- a DO who completes an osteopathic general surgery residency may do an allopathic fellowship but may not get additional BC in that fellowship specialty without approval from the corresponding osteopathic board (if it exists)

That probably confused things, although I hope it helps.

 

[DO_Surgeon]

can you clarify please.... Which of the following is prohibitting you from sitting for the boards?
a) AOA
b) American osteopathic board of surgery
c) ABTS

ABTS prohibits you from sitting for their boards. They do not accept AOA general surgery training. You have to either have completed an ACGME or Royal College of Phyisican and Surgeons of Canada residency. Which seems somewhat odd to me that there are no issues with Canadian residents obtaining US fellowships and becoming board certified, where as USA residents, obtaining US medical education, and training in US hospitals are not eligible. I would agree that MD and DO degrees are considered equal here in the USA, but make no mistake the opportunities are not the same.

 

[ArcherM2]

C.


In a nutshell:
- a DO who completes an allopathic general surgery residency is neither BE by the AOBS or ABS but may petition the AOBS for BE

Is this right???

 

[travoltage]

thanks for the help everyone, youve all been more than helpful!

 

[Winged Scapula]

Is this right???

No, I misspoke or it wasn't very clear.

What I meant was that if you, as a DO, complete an allopathic general surgery residency you may not be eligible for BC in a fellowship trained subspecialty. You ARE Board Eligible by the ABS upon completion of a general surgery residency (allopathic) or AOBS (osteopathic).

Another user has corrected me, and others here, with the following information. This is only relevant to the American Board of Thoracic Surgery:

"I read your reply to whether DOs who do DO General Surgery residencies can be boarded in Thoracic Surgery after doing an ACGME CTS residency. When I first came across the question, I thought the same thing you did, but then someone had mentioned on the same thread of two DOs in the Dallas/Forth Worth area who trained in a DO General Surgery residency and then did CTS at Texas Heart.

That surprised me, to say the least. I figured they weren't boarded, but I checked it out on ABTS.org.

To make a long story short, after 2003, all Thoracic Surgery Residents need not be boarded by the ABS to sit for the ABTS. Interesting, but apparently, this was an effort, similar to what Vascular Surgery has done, to increase the number of training routes/paradigms for those interested in being boarded in Thoracic Surgery.

Here it is:

http://www.abts.org/sections/Certification/General_Requirements/index.html"

However, the situation with other subspecialties may still be that you cannot be boarded if there doesn't exist a corresponding osteo fellowship or have had your allopathic residency "approved" for BC by AOBS.

It does appear to me, in the link above, however, that although you might not have to be BC in general surgery to be BC in Thoracic Surgery, to be BE in Thoracic Surgery you either have to complete an allopathic ACGME approved general surgery residency or a Royal Canadian College one. Am I confused, or are others reading it this way? It does not appear to allow for osteopathic surgery residency.

I am confusing myself now...I"m sorry if I contributed to other's confusion as well.

 

[misery]

never mind answered above

 

[Castro Viejo]

It does appear to me, in the link above, however, that although you might not have to be BC in general surgery to be BC in Thoracic Surgery, to be BE in Thoracic Surgery you either have to complete an allopathic ACGME approved general surgery residency or a Royal Canadian College one. Am I confused, or are others reading it this way? It does not appear to allow for osteopathic surgery residency.

Hmmm... Yeah, I'm interpreting the ABTS rules for eligibility this way too. MD or DO you've gotta do an ACGME-approved General Surgery Residency or a Royal Canadian College General Surgery Residency to qualify. So I guess DOs who do an AOBS General Surgery Residency can't get boarded by the ABTS.

Perhaps those two Texas Heart DOs were boarded by the American Osteopathic Board of Thoracic Surgery? Is there such a thing? Or maybe just by the plain old AOBS?

 

[travoltage]

so basically, you need to do an allopathic general surgery residency to become board certified in ct surgery?

what if your not board certified, can you still complete a ct surgery fellowship? will that hurt you not being certified?

 

[travoltage]

and another thing...whats the difference between ct and general vascular....i mean obviously no pulmonary work for gen vascular but dont they still do esophagus, heart, greater vessels, etc as a ct does?

 

[travoltage]

ha also, does this mean that aoa has a certification for thoracic surgery?

http://www.aobs.org/aobs-table.htm#thoracic

would that board be eligible of acgme certification?

 

[Castro Viejo]

so basically, you need to do an allopathic general surgery residency to become board certified in ct surgery?

what if your not board certified, can you still complete a ct surgery fellowship? will that hurt you not being certified?

Yes, to be Board Certified (BC) by the American Board of Thoracic Surgery (ABTS) you need to have completed a General Surgery residency approved by the Accreditation Council on Graduate Medical Education (ACGME) and the American Board of Surgery (ABS) (commonly referred to on SDN as an "allopathic residency") or the Royal Canadian College of Surgeons. You need not necessarily be BC by the ABS or RCCS to become Board Eligible (meaning that you would be approved to sit for the ABTS certification examination).

I think you're confusing the BC issue. What we're talking about here is how one becomes BC by the ABTS. This happens upon completion of an ABTS approved CTS residency (two or three years in length) after completing an ACGME/ABS/RCCS approved General Surgery residency program. You don't need BC by any agency to complete a CTS residency.

 

[Castro Viejo]

and another thing...whats the difference between ct and general vascular....i mean obviously no pulmonary work for gen vascular but dont they still do esophagus, heart, greater vessels, etc as a ct does?

CT surgeons operate on the chest and all the organs and vessels within that cavity. Heart, coronaries, great vessels, aorta, lungs, esophagus, chest wall, etc.

General or Peripheral Vascular (PV) surgeons operate on the vasculature of pretty much everywhere EXCEPT the heart (coronaries), aortic root, and intracranial. Everything else is pretty much fair game for PV surgery. Within the chest PV surgeons will operate on the aortic arch (from time to time), the great vessels, and certainly in some centers, the thoracic aorta. PV surgery does not operate on the esophagus.

In recent years as CT surgeons are faced with dwindling hearts to bypass, some have begun performing operations traditionally done by PV surgeons or General Surgeons. It has sort of become a political nightmare for everyone involved, but that's another issue for another thread.

Anyway, the lines haven't been blurred all that much, I think. The only place where CTS and PV officially conflict would be on the thoracic aorta and arch disease. In most places where I've been the arch has always been the realm of CTS. The thoracic aorta, on the other hand, is sort of up for grabs but often done jointly between PV and CTS. As endograft technology develops and it becomes more commonplace for thoracic aortic disease, including arch debranching and all that other cool stuff, you'll be sure to see more CT surgeons wanting to learn endovascular interventions. As of now, I believe, most CT residencies have little-to-no endovascular training.

 

[Castro Viejo]

ha also, does this mean that aoa has a certification for thoracic surgery?

http://www.aobs.org/aobs-table.htm#thoracic

would that board be eligible of acgme certification?

No. General Surgery training includes Thoracic (non-Cardiac) Surgery and Peripheral Vascular Surgery. That table reflects the exam questions on the American Osteopathic Board of Surgery's written examination. You'll find some Urology, Neurosurgery, and Orthopedics as well. General Surgery is supposed to mean General, not just abdominal and head/neck. The same goes for the American Board of Surgery written examination.

Being BC by the AOBS does not give one BC with the ABS. To be BC with the ABS you have to complete an ACGME ("allopathic") General Surgery residency. An osteopathic General Surgery residency doesn't qualify.

 

[Winged Scapula]

ha also, does this mean that aoa has a certification for thoracic surgery?

http://www.aobs.org/aobs-table.htm#thoracic

There is a certification in Cardiovascular and Thoracic Surgery offered by the American Osteopathic Board of Cardiovascular and Thoracic Surgery. It requires completion of an AOA approved residency in general surgery and 2 years of CT fellowship.

would that board be eligible of acgme certification?

No. To be Board Certified in Thoracic Surgery after completion of an ACGME approved fellowship in Thoracic Surgery, you must have completed either an allopathic ACGME or Royal Canadian College approved residency before the fellowship.

AOA may sometimes give credit for training in an ACGME fellowship and offer their own board certification; the opposite is almost never true (ABS giving credit for AOBS training).

 

[travoltage]

are there like any fellowships for DO ct, i couldnt find any, so now i guess im pretty much gunning for allopathic (assuming i get admitted) which i hope i do, i was just curious as to DO's situation in this matter because that is my back up plan, but if i really wanted to pursue the ct field, would you guys recommend i just stick with it and keep on trying to allopathic schools if i get denied?

 

[Blade28]

are there like any fellowships for DO ct, i couldnt find any, so now i guess im pretty much gunning for allopathic (assuming i get admitted) which i hope i do, i was just curious as to DO's situation in this matter because that is my back up plan, but if i really wanted to pursue the ct field, would you guys recommend i just stick with it and keep on trying to allopathic schools if i get denied?

Wow that's a long sentence! 🙂

I wouldn't worry about fellowships right now (9+ years away) unless you're actively deciding between an MD and DO med school right now.

 

[Castro Viejo]

are there like any fellowships for DO ct, i couldnt find any, so now i guess im pretty much gunning for allopathic (assuming i get admitted) which i hope i do, i was just curious as to DO's situation in this matter because that is my back up plan, but if i really wanted to pursue the ct field, would you guys recommend i just stick with it and keep on trying to allopathic schools if i get denied?

Wow. This IS a good example of a run-on sentence. 🙂

Anyway, my personal feelings on this subject are that while there are clear examples of DOs who have trained in General Surgery, and some who have even gone into CTS, the majority of surgeons out there are MDs. This is fact based on AOA-reported data (that the majority of DOs are in primary care specialties and the majority of DO graduates head into primary care training programs).

So if you were aspiring to be a surgeon, whichever kind it may be, I'd probably look toward getting into an allopathic medical school rather than osteopathic just based on that data alone.

 

[Winged Scapula]

It probably doesn't matter, except at some more hidebound allopathic surgery residencies where being a DO might be a stigma.

It sounds like you would be better off doing an allopathic residency followed by an allopathic CTS fellowship, but it probably doens't matter whether you go to an osteopathic or allopathic medical school. I certainly wouldn't advise you to give up on a DO school and keep trying for an MD one for that reason.

 

[ESU_MD]

It probably doesn't matter, except at some more hidebound allopathic surgery residencies where being a DO might be a stigma.

if they have DOs at the Texas Heart Institute, then I reckon they got them DOs at just about every other program in the country as well. That is one of the top tier places in the world. CT is wide open.

 

[Winged Scapula]

if they have DOs at the Texas Heart Institute, then I reckon they got them DOs at just about every other program in the country as well. That is one of the top tier places in the world. CT is wide open.

I was referring to being a DO trying to get into some MD general surgery residencies, not CT fellowships. Anecdotally and appearance-wise, there are many that have little to no history of taking osteopathic students.

As you note, CT is wide open and being a DO isn't an issue (with regards to getting in).

 

[Blade28]

As you note, CT is wide open and being a DO isn't an issue (with regards to getting in).

Perhaps the screening process for CT fellowships merely involves checking for a pulse.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Perhaps the screening process for CT fellowships merely involves checking for a pulse.

And I'm not even sure about that.

 

[travoltage]

i cant figure out why people are so bashful of ct...i understand the long hours, the sick patients, the stressful lifestyle, etc. but thats what i live for! 😀

 

[Winged Scapula]

i cant figure out why people are so bashful of ct...i understand the long hours, the sick patients, the stressful lifestyle, etc. but thats what i live for! 😀

Yeah, it all sounds like fun and games until you actually do it.

I don't mean to be rude, but many a pre-med has had his glorifed views of the field dashed during medical school and residency.

 

[Castro Viejo]

Perhaps the screening process for CT fellowships merely involves checking for a pulse.

I always thought CT fellowships were actually quite difficult to get. I mean, isn't it the only possible way a CTS residency grad can get a paycheck when they're done? 🙂

 

[Blade28]

I always thought CT fellowships were actually quite difficult to get. I mean, isn't it the only possible way a CTS residency grad can get a paycheck when they're done? 🙂

Oh snap! 🙂

 

[goooooober]

Being a DO will not hinder you getting an Allopathic General Surgery spot. Certainly, DOs have to work harder to get there, that is a fact. The reason is that many DO schools do not have prestigous or even any surgery departments. No big names to write you letters or call for you. YOU have to make that happen by going to prestigous programs and doing SUBIs there. If you are good, you are good and that will be recognized regardless of where you go and what you do. Even if a perstigous program may not take you because of your degree, they will not hesitate to write you big letters that will get you into a great program. But you have to earn it. If you build a great resume, then when you interview, the focus will shift from your school and degree to who you are and your characteristics, which is exactly what you want.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Being a DO will not hinder you getting an Allopathic General Surgery spot. Certainly, DOs have to work harder to get there, that is a fact. The reason is that many DO schools do not have prestigous or even any surgery departments. No big names to write you letters or call for you. YOU have to make that happen by going to prestigous programs and doing SUBIs there. If you are good, you are good and that will be recognized regardless of where you go and what you do. Even if a perstigous program may not take you because of your degree, they will not hesitate to write you big letters that will get you into a great program. But you have to earn it. If you build a great resume, then when you interview, the focus will shift from your school and degree to who you are and your characteristics, which is exactly what you want.

Not to be obstinate, but it DOES sound like being a DO will hinder you. At least in terms that you will work harder and there are some allopathic programs that have no history of taking DO residents.

That is not to say that they are unable to get good residencies...you are proof of that, but to say they aren't hindered in that quest would be misleading, IMHO.

 

[Castro Viejo]

Being a DO will not hinder you getting an Allopathic General Surgery spot. Certainly, DOs have to work harder to get there, that is a fact. The reason is that many DO schools do not have prestigous or even any surgery departments. No big names to write you letters or call for you. YOU have to make that happen by going to prestigous programs and doing SUBIs there. If you are good, you are good and that will be recognized regardless of where you go and what you do. Even if a perstigous program may not take you because of your degree, they will not hesitate to write you big letters that will get you into a great program. But you have to earn it. If you build a great resume, then when you interview, the focus will shift from your school and degree to who you are and your characteristics, which is exactly what you want.

Hmmm... 'Tis a non sequitur.

 

[travoltage]

after constantly hearing that ct field is dying, how is the vascular field not dying as well....couldn't interventional cardiologists start to do same procedures,etc?

 

[Castro Viejo]

after constantly hearing that ct field is dying, how is the vascular field not dying as well....couldn't interventional cardiologists start to do same procedures,etc?

Yes, and some have. That's currently a big issue with Vascular Surgery and the subject of another thread somewhere...

But unlike CTS, Vascular Surgery hasn't GIVEN UP catheter-based interventions entirely to the cardiologists or radiologists. Heck, Vascular Surgeons are the ones who primarily developed endograft technology and are the ones building on it today!

And unlike CTS, referrals to Vascular Surgery don't just come from cardiologists (although they are the main source of referrals) but other physicians as well...

Then there's the patient followup thing. Like General Surgery, CTS is a cut and run kind of thing. Do the CABG and "Adios!" see you when you re-occlude or something. Unfortunate as it may seem, by the very nature of peripheral vascular disease, Vascular Surgeons see the same patients ALL THE FRICKIN' TIME. It's like Transplant Surgery without the nonsense.

 

[travoltage]

haha, thanks castro!

 

[Blade28]

after constantly hearing that ct field is dying, how is the vascular field not dying as well....couldn't interventional cardiologists start to do same procedures,etc?

You may be confusing endovascular procedures with the catheter-based treatments that cardiologists offer.

Vascular surgeons do a ton of open procedures that no one else could do.

 

[goooooober]

Not to be obstinate, but it DOES sound like being a DO will hinder you. At least in terms that you will work harder and there are some allopathic programs that have no history of taking DO residents.

That is not to say that they are unable to get good residencies...you are proof of that, but to say they aren't hindered in that quest would be misleading, IMHO.

I used the word hinder to mean stop, prevent, or delay. I disagree with you about me being misleading. I said being a DO, you have to work harder. But it will not stop you or even delay you from getting what you want, if you really want it. If you know what taking a certain path entails, then you will be prepared and you will play the game right. If you go to a DO school, only take the comlex, not do away rotations and not have letters from big names, then you will most likely not make it. Therefore, you do have to work harder. But you should never, ever turn down any school because they may be DO or an MD school that doesn't have the reputation for putting sutdents in surgical fields. You should pick what fits you, know where you are going, and how to go about building your application so none can question you. Of course there will always be factors that will prevent you from getting into one or two programs. they may be grades, degree, race, religion, research, personality. But being a DO will not STOP you from graduating and securing a great allopathic general surgery program or any other specialty. We need to stop feeding this false stereotype on SDN that being DO is being limited. There are many DOs in almost every specialty at most institutions, yes including prestigous ones, that don't post on this forum. It doesn't mean they don't exist.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I'm not sure who you're arguing with goooober because I agree with you, in almost every sense. I am well aware that there are DOs in many prestigious programs. I am also aware that there are many prestigious and unprestrigious programs that have little to no history of accepting residents with DO degrees. To deny that such exists is to obligate others to assuming they may face no challenges, challenges that you've detailed.

I might argue that the word hinder, in the transitive sense, does not necessarily mean to stop or prevent (as you have defined it), but rather means to slow the progress of. The description of the difficulties DOs *may* face that you've listed in your posts above does not necessarily mean that DO students will be prevented from reaching their goals but it may very well mean they will be hindered, or delayed in some fashion.

As Castro Viejo notes, your posts are non sequitors when you start out by saying that DOs won't be hindered in their quest to get into an allopathic training program, but then follow that with several sentences about how DOs ARE hindered.

But I think you and I are of the same mind on this topic for the most part, so I just wanted to clarify my earlier posts.

 

[goooooober]

I'm not sure who you're arguing with goooober because I agree with you, in almost every sense. I am well aware that there are DOs in many prestigious programs. I am also aware that there are many prestigious and unprestrigious programs that have little to no history of accepting residents with DO degrees. To deny that such exists is to obligate others to assuming they may face no challenges, challenges that you've detailed.

I might argue that the word hinder, in the transitive sense, does not necessarily mean to stop or prevent (as you have defined it), but rather means to slow the progress of. The description of the difficulties DOs *may* face that you've listed in your posts above does not necessarily mean that DO students will be prevented from reaching their goals but it may very well mean they will be hindered, or delayed in some fashion.

As Castro Viejo notes, your posts are non sequitors when you start out by saying that DOs won't be hindered in their quest to get into an allopathic training program, but then follow that with several sentences about how DOs ARE hindered.

But I think you and I are of the same mind on this topic for the most part, so I just wanted to clarify my earlier posts.

I am very clear in my previous posts. I have said that being a DO will NOT even DELAY or SLOW DOWN, as you have defined hinder. You just have to know where you are at, what you are going for and how to make your application solid, just like any MD school. The challenge of being a DO is that you HAVE to do away rotations during 4th year and you HAVE to take the USMLE. This is certainly more challenging, but it will not delay or slow down anyone. It certainly did not for anyone in my class. 90% of my classmates got what they wanted and most got into one of their top 3 choices for residency (yes, allopathic) from radiation oncology, to radiology, to anesthesiology, to surgery. None of them were delayed, slowed down, prevented from reaching their goals. Now, certainly if their applications were weak, then just like at any MD school, they did not become a dermatologist. In addition, the history of a program has absolutely nothing to do with whether they will take a DO studednt in the current year. My program had never had a DO, in 50-60 years of their history. I don't know if this is because not many DOs applied or they did not have the right DO applicant. I am the first at my program and if we get the right future applicants, I will not be the last. So medical students should not consider history of a program in deciding where to apply for residency. I am not advocating going to a DO school, I am saying go to where fits for you, know what you want to do, and go after it. You will not be hindered if you know how to play the game.

 

[Castro Viejo]

I might argue that the word hinder, in the transitive sense, does not necessarily mean to stop or prevent (as you have defined it), but rather means to slow the progress of.

Haha... You used www.m-w.com. Haha...

Main Entry: 1hin·der
Pronunciation: \ˈhin-dər\
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): hin·dered; hin·der·ing \-d(ə-)riŋ\
Etymology: Middle English hindren, from Old English hindrian; akin to Old English hinder behind
Date: before 12th century
transitive verb
1 : to make slow or difficult the progress of : hamper

 

[Castro Viejo]

90% of my classmates got what they wanted and most got into one of their top 3 choices for residency (yes, allopathic) from radiation oncology, to radiology, to anesthesiology, to surgery.

So are you implying that 90% of your classmates matched one of their top three to fields such as Rad Onc, Rads, Anesthesia, and General Surgery?

That would be quite an anomaly considering that the AOA advertises that about 2/3s of DO graduates go into a primary care program.