Caribbean or Australia

[lorong]

If you are a Canadian, where would you go Caribbean or Australia if cost is not an issue?

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[PossibleDOC?]

If you are a Canadian, where would you go Caribbean or Australia if cost is not an issue?

Why not try the US first?

 

[Skip Intro]

... if cost is not an issue?

Hmmm....

So many potential follow-up questions based on that alone. But, let's keep it simple.

Why is cost "not an issue" for you? Based on your answer, my advice will vary greatly.

Let's start there.

-Skip

 

[lorong]

Not trying US as I have low MCAT score. @ Skip Intro, I have family members in Australia that would help finance my studies regardless whether it's Caribbean or Australia.

 

[deleted731525]

Retake MCAT and get into US/Canadian school>UQ-Oschner>Rest of the options in Australia and Caribbean

 

[Skip Intro]

I have family members in Australia that would help finance my studies regardless whether it's Caribbean or Australia.

While the school you choose is ultimately an investment in your future, anything that can keep your costs as low as possible while not risking your ability to get back the U.S. and have a good career is always advisable.

There are several members of this forum, including one of the more prominent moderators, who went to med school in Australia.

My suggestion is to do a cost:risk:benefit analysis between whichever schools you can narrow down before making your decision. If it's a bargain or otherwise "too good to be true", then it probably is.

-Skip

 

[HopefulCanadian]

Not trying US as I have low MCAT score. @ Skip Intro, I have family members in Australia that would help finance my studies regardless whether it's Caribbean or Australia.

Honestly you have to ask yourself what your goal is. You also have to ask yourself where you are ok with getting stuck.

Personally I would also consider the UK especially if you have the money to be able to afford Australia. So that is my first point. These questions are running under the assumption that you pass what ever initial licencing is needed.



If you honestly think that you can be ok with living in the land down under then its not a bad idea. You will be a long ways off from home. Support is going to be a long ways off. Honestly the other thing is you will be living in a place that contains significantly more distractions then you would have if you were going to school on a small island. So that is the first thing. You do need to pass your licencing but going to a Caribbean school will at least allow you to be able to do some clinical rotations in Canada. This mean you can build the relationships with the people that are important for you to potentially go home IF you want to eventually return home.

If returning home is your desired pathway in the long run the Caribbean seems to make the most sense. Clinical rotations in Canada especially for your electives are possible depending on what school you go to (Ross or SGU or a few others). It will be expensive either way but if you feel like you need to be closer to home or you need support or you don't study well with distractions then again AUS/UK is the best place for you.

Expenses wise it is around on par except while you are on the Caribbean island your expenses will be less then Aus or the UK.

I think I have covered all the main points.

If someone wants to chime in with the typical...redo your mcat blah blah blah. Yes this is a good idea too. Getting into Canada is hard work and even if you do a second degree you still may have trouble.

If you graduate in Aus and don't match in Canada but you match there would you be happy? It would be tougher to travel home and see family. If you graduate in the Caribbean don't match in Canada but match in the US would you be happy... it is closer to family and support.

If those things don't matter to you then consider one more thing. Look at paying your education in the foreign dollars USD vs the Pound/Euro VS whatever Aus has. You may determine the UK or AUS is ultimately for you. You may also determine it is not.


Wish you luck. Let us know what happens.

 

[HopefulCanadian]

While the school you choose is ultimately an investment in your future, anything that can keep your costs as low as possible while not risking your ability to get back the U.S. and have a good career is always advisable.

There are several members of this forum, including one of the more prominent moderators, who went to med school in Australia.

My suggestion is to do a cost:risk:benefit analysis between whichever schools you can narrow down before making your decision. If it's a bargain or otherwise "too good to be true", then it probably is.

-Skip

Good points for the OP just keep in mind he wants to get back into Canada ultimately which is even harder then the US.

 

[deleted158872]

Atlantic Bridge programs in Ireland are better than both for Canadians.

 

[HopefulCanadian]

Atlantic Bridge programs in Ireland are better than both for Canadians.

Thanks.

This brings up my exact point. As a Canadian why are we looking at Austrailia...Not that it is a terrible option. The UK has pretty decent options. Either way it is difficult to come back to Canada as an IMG. It is easier as a Canadian. The best options put you at about a 40% chance of coming back for residency. You can always get stuck in the UK and then eventually work your way back to Canada. During that time you may decide you want to stay there.

 

[torontopharm]

Thanks.

This brings up my exact point. As a Canadian why are we looking at Austrailia...Not that it is a terrible option. The UK has pretty decent options. Either way it is difficult to come back to Canada as an IMG. It is easier as a Canadian. The best options put you at about a 40% chance of coming back for residency. You can always get stuck in the UK and then eventually work your way back to Canada. During that time you may decide you want to stay there.

Well one aspect where Australia has Ireland beat is the ability to stay back..even with all the internship crisis that's going on there. Add to the fact that Aus grads match at about ~60% based on CARMs data which isn't bad either.
In terms of staying back, it's UK >>>>>>>>>> Australia >> Ireland. You have almost zero chance to get an Irish internship without having a EU citizenship. If i had to choose between non-North America options, as a Canadian, I'd pick UK or Australia despite how great match statistics are from Irish schools. But i mean, i'm risk averse so that's just me. I can see why others could choose something different.

 

[UBC2014]

Well one aspect where Australia has Ireland beat is the ability to stay back..even with all the internship crisis that's going on there. Add to the fact that Aus grads match at about ~60% based on CARMs data which isn't bad either.
In terms of staying back, it's UK >>>>>>>>>> Australia >> Ireland. You have almost zero chance to get an Irish internship without having a EU citizenship. If i had to choose between non-North America options, as a Canadian, I'd pick UK or Australia despite how great match statistics are from Irish schools. But i mean, i'm risk averse so that's just me. I can see why others could choose something different.

This isn't universally true about staying in Australia - it depends on what Australian medical school you go to and the catchment area you are in. Some are better than others in terms of residency availability. Regardless, you will be going rural in most cases.

 

[torontopharm]

This isn't universally true about staying in Australia - it depends on what Australian medical school you go to and the catchment area you are in. Some are better than others in terms of residency availability. Regardless, you will be going rural in most cases.

Very true. Different states place international students in different priorities. It's certainly less of a "guarantee" than UK provides. One should definitely do more research on priority rankings, 10 year moratorium etc. instead of choosing a random Australian school. As a Canadian, i'd still pick all these options over the Caribbean with our visa situation so up in the air.

 

[lorong]

Honestly you have to ask yourself what your goal is. You also have to ask yourself where you are ok with getting stuck.

Personally I would also consider the UK especially if you have the money to be able to afford Australia. So that is my first point. These questions are running under the assumption that you pass what ever initial licencing is needed.



If you honestly think that you can be ok with living in the land down under then its not a bad idea. You will be a long ways off from home. Support is going to be a long ways off. Honestly the other thing is you will be living in a place that contains significantly more distractions then you would have if you were going to school on a small island. So that is the first thing. You do need to pass your licencing but going to a Caribbean school will at least allow you to be able to do some clinical rotations in Canada. This mean you can build the relationships with the people that are important for you to potentially go home IF you want to eventually return home.

If returning home is your desired pathway in the long run the Caribbean seems to make the most sense. Clinical rotations in Canada especially for your electives are possible depending on what school you go to (Ross or SGU or a few others). It will be expensive either way but if you feel like you need to be closer to home or you need support or you don't study well with distractions then again AUS/UK is the best place for you.

Expenses wise it is around on par except while you are on the Caribbean island your expenses will be less then Aus or the UK.

I think I have covered all the main points.

If someone wants to chime in with the typical...redo your mcat blah blah blah. Yes this is a good idea too. Getting into Canada is hard work and even if you do a second degree you still may have trouble.

If you graduate in Aus and don't match in Canada but you match there would you be happy? It would be tougher to travel home and see family. If you graduate in the Caribbean don't match in Canada but match in the US would you be happy... it is closer to family and support.

If those things don't matter to you then consider one more thing. Look at paying your education in the foreign dollars USD vs the Pound/Euro VS whatever Aus has. You may determine the UK or AUS is ultimately for you. You may also determine it is not.


Wish you luck. Let us know what happens.

Thought I will update where I am now. Ended up in Australia. Doing very well and loving it. Thank you

 

[trev5150]

Grats!

 

[mcat_taker]

Not sure if @lorong is still around, but since this thread has been resurrected I'll chime in as well. I was deciding between SGU and Australia a few years back as well. Ultimately decided on Australia 3 years ago because of the lower attrition rates, the work-life balance in school (a lot more chill), and because it is pretty hard to fail (but people still do), easy and straightforward application process (you meet the stats you're in), big research university with brand name recognition, and potential to stay in Oz as a back up to the U.S. I was scared of the academic environment in the Caribbean and attrition as I had never been an elite student or exam taker before.

Higher education is big big business in Australia, one of their main exports and a billion dollar industry. A lot of their universities get a majority of their operational revenue from charging big bucks to international students, for all degrees, not just medicine (since domestic students pay very little). Therefore it is fairly straightforward to apply and get accepted as an international student (even in medical programs) because the standards are lower. They want the money and the universities don't have to guarantee a job or a match to you after you graduate. You can get accepted to a top 50 globally ranked medical school in Australia with a pretty average premed profile. People have matched to the U.S. for decades from Australia. Yes you have less guidance but it is certainly possible.

For a while it boggled my mind that people still chose Caribbean programs over UQ-Ochsner (now in its 8th year), as UQ-O just a few short years ago required nothing more than a 24 MCAT and no interview lol. Low attrition, living in a first world nice clean city in Brisbane, and 2 years of rotations at one of the top hospital networks in the Gulf south (no moving around either for rotations!) it was a no brainer to me over SGU. In fact I would have attended any med school in Australia over the Caribbean at that point and had several acceptances in the country besides UQ-O)

That being said, it is expensive (tuition is now 67K a year in USD plus factor in living expenses in Australia and flights etc), and in the last 2 years standards have slowly increased (interviews were factored in 3 years ago starting for my class along with a 499 MCAT roughly equivalent to a 25-26 on the old exam), then the MCAT minimum went up to a 502 last year and now the MCAT requirements are about 504 to get offered an interview (which is maybe a 27-28 on the old scale). The GPA requirements have consistently remained "must have a B average in last degree completed".

So while in previous years, it seemed like a no brainer to attend and probably easier to get into than a big 4 carib school (at least when requirements were 24 MCAT and B average no interview just a few short years ago), it seems like the school has been getting enough applications and matriculant yield and interest to steadily raise their requirements each year where it is roughly on par with D.O. school admissions now.

 

[Domperidone]

Not sure if @lorong is still around, but since this thread has been resurrected I'll chime in as well. I was deciding between SGU and Australia a few years back as well. Ultimately decided on Australia 3 years ago because of the lower attrition rates, the work-life balance in school (a lot more chill), and because it is pretty hard to fail (but people still do), easy and straightforward application process (you meet the stats you're in), big research university with brand name recognition, and potential to stay in Oz as a back up to the U.S. I was scared of the academic environment in the Caribbean and attrition as I had never been an elite student or exam taker before.

Higher education is big big business in Australia, one of their main exports and a billion dollar industry. A lot of their universities get a majority of their operational revenue from charging big bucks to international students, for all degrees, not just medicine (since domestic students pay very little). Therefore it is fairly straightforward to apply and get accepted as an international student (even in medical programs) because the standards are lower. They want the money and the universities don't have to guarantee a job or a match to you after you graduate. You can get accepted to a top 50 globally ranked medical school in Australia with a pretty average premed profile. People have matched to the U.S. for decades from Australia. Yes you have less guidance but it is certainly possible.

For a while it boggled my mind that people still chose Caribbean programs over UQ-Ochsner (now in its 8th year), as UQ-O just a few short years ago required nothing more than a 24 MCAT and no interview lol. Low attrition, living in a first world nice clean city in Brisbane, and 2 years of rotations at one of the top hospital networks in the Gulf south (no moving around either for rotations!) it was a no brainer to me over SGU. In fact I would have attended any med school in Australia over the Caribbean at that point and had several acceptances in the country besides UQ-O)

That being said, it is expensive (tuition is now 67K a year in USD plus factor in living expenses in Australia and flights etc), and in the last 2 years standards have slowly increased (interviews were factored in 3 years ago starting for my class along with a 499 MCAT roughly equivalent to a 25-26 on the old exam), then the MCAT minimum went up to a 502 last year and now the MCAT requirements are about 504 to get offered an interview (which is maybe a 27-28 on the old scale). The GPA requirements have consistently remained "must have a B average in last degree completed".

So while in previous years, it seemed like a no brainer to attend and probably easier to get into than a big 4 carib school (at least when requirements were 24 MCAT and B average no interview just a few short years ago), it seems like the school has been getting enough applications and matriculant yield and interest to steadily raise their requirements each year where it is roughly on par with D.O. school admissions now.

UQ Ochsner isn't available to Canadians like OP.

Why are we about to ignite another debate or discussion on UQO versus Carribbean or DO, when UQO is strictly American and this is a Canadian thread? OP's also already made a decision nor have they ever considered the US for school.. so I'm kinda missing the point of reviving something that's at an end point. Like why stir the pot over this when it's not a new thread asking "Australia versus Carib versus US DO" all over again.

This thread is probably more appropriate to what you're wanting to discuss: UQ-Oschner and more Program for U.S. Citizen. They've already touched on DO v.s. IMG in that thread too, but not this one. Someone else interested in Ochsner specifically has already revived that one.

There's certainly plenty enough people in the UQO thread who agree with you already and there's plenty enough genuinely interested UQO candidates seeking student and alum opinion there - UQ-Ochsner 2018 Cohort

Canadians only have 4 year "traditional program" onshore in Australia open to them. There's a new active discussion here already on Carib versus other offshore options for Canadians - CaRMS process for an IMG is unfair despite how it looks. Sure, some Canadians take board exams for two countries (heavens knows why) but not all of them will and some will not apply to the US. But I'm sure you'd be welcome to join that discussion too.

 

[mcat_taker]

UQ Ochsner isn't available to Canadians like OP.

Why are we about to ignite another debate or discussion on UQO versus Carribbean or DO, when UQO is strictly American and this is a Canadian thread? OP's also already made a decision nor have they ever considered the US for school.. so I'm kinda missing the point of reviving something that's at an end point. Like why stir the pot over this when it's not a new thread asking "Australia versus Carib versus US DO" all over again.

This thread is probably more appropriate to what you're wanting to discuss: UQ-Oschner and more Program for U.S. Citizen. They've already touched on DO v.s. IMG in that thread too, but not this one. Someone else interested in Ochsner specifically has already revived that one.

There's certainly plenty enough people in the UQO thread who agree with you already and there's plenty enough genuinely interested UQO candidates seeking student and alum opinion there - UQ-Ochsner 2018 Cohort

Canadians only have 4 year "traditional program" onshore in Australia open to them. There's a new active discussion here already on Carib versus other offshore options for Canadians - CaRMS process for an IMG is unfair despite how it looks. Sure, some Canadians take board exams for two countries (heavens knows why) but not all of them will and some will not apply to the US. But I'm sure you'd be welcome to join that discussion too.

Ok forgot OP was Canadian, either way there are plenty of Canadians in both Caribbean and Australian schools and my post was meant to be informative for all as it was posted in the Caribbean forum for those who are considering the IMG route. There are other off shore options besides the Caribbean and prospective students look here for offshore medical school advice and may not see postings elsewhere about these topics or even know about those other options because a lot of premeds get tunnel vision focusing on the Caribbean when they can't get in state-side.

 

[Domperidone]

why hijack this thread though? why not just do a new one or continue one where there is discussion already? it's kinda case closed in here. OP made a decision. Great. Done.