Caribbean school

[echoyjeff222]

Hey,

I just saw this school pop up on my school's newsletter ... I am really drawn to the MS/MD program:
https://www.mum.edu/mum-launches-integrative-medicine-mdms-program/

Can anyone give me brief positives/negatives about attending a school in the Caribbean?

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[xBODOMx]

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[jurisburger]

Use search bar dude. Type in "Carribean" and you'll get quite a few threads answering exactly that question!

But it seems a major drawback is that if you want to come back to the US to practice you'll be fighting a significant uphill battle for spots in the match.

 

[MerciMerci]

Can anyone give me brief positives/negatives about attending a school in the Caribbean?

 

[NeuResurgens]

"After seeking for years to offer a medical degree, MUM will begin collaborating in the coming academic year with a modern medicine school to provide a medical degree in integrative medicine."

Looks like I've been calling "medicine school" the wrong thing my whole life.

That's weird that this school is in Iowa, but is working with a Caribbean school. Anyway, the Caribbean -

Positives:
-There are beaches there.

Negatives:
-Huge pricetags
-High dropout rates
-low match rates into American residencies

If you don't match, your medical degree is essentially useless, and now you're stuck with a $100,000's piece of paper and no prospects for a moderately well paying job.

Friends don't let friends go to Caribbean medical schools.

 

[BamaNicole]

Hey,

I just saw this school pop up on my school's newsletter ... I am really drawn to the MS/MD program:
https://www.mum.edu/mum-launches-integrative-medicine-mdms-program/

Can anyone give me brief positives/negatives about attending a school in the Caribbean?

There's not much in terms of the words "brief" or "positive"

More like lengthy and horror story in regards to caribbean schools.

 

[GrapesofRath]

This can't be a serious thread.

 

[ZedsDed]

Your school should be ashamed of itself.

Many schools do this unfortunately. My school is one of the more pretentious and elitist institutions out there, yet they spam my inbox like it's their day job.

 

[CherryRedDracul]

"Approximately 97% of their graduates obtain residencies in North America"

 

[Goro]

The other bus that's coming is that it will be harder for these students to get loans.

Within 3-6 years the number of effective residency slots open to IMG will be, at most, 40% of current levels with some estimations much lower. 5-10 years ago we imported 8,000 docs a year as IMG. 3-6 years the number will be 3,000 or less. The question also should be ask how many people who start medical school there, gain residency. In American schools, at 8 years out (counting combined degrees) almost 97% of students who start medical school get a degree. Of those who who apply, counting SOAP, 98% gain residency slot. So effectively, over 95% of those who start medical school gain slots. For example Ross, one the "better" schools off shore, by there own numbers lose 25% of class in the first 2 years and another 25% at minimum the next two. Even if 85% of those who apply for residency gain a slot, that needs to be cut in half accounting for those who start and dont earn a degree. So 42.5% gain a slot effectively. That does not account for those who earn a degree but never pass STEP II

In other words chances are cut in half. Care to risk it?

 

[GrapesofRath]

I don't think people realize the feeling it brings and what it really means to commit 4 years of your time in your 20's, $200,000, and at the end have nothing to show for it like over 50% of Caribbeans go through. And then on top of that, what happens to someone after that and how they have no idea of what to do with their life with no applicable degree, debt up to their eyeballs and often times not just no significant other or family but no real significant consideration for one being in medical school the past 4 years. Just how debilitating that might be, I don't want to imagine.

It's hard to imagine just how scary the thought of being a intelligent hardworking 29 year old, with no job prospects, no sight of a family, and debt up to his eye balls and no idea what to do with his life next let alone what to do with their life next week. Why would anyone want to even put themselves at risk for something anything along the lines of this. If you have what it takes to persevere through and get a college degree in a science major, you have what it takes to improve your grades(grade forgiveness) and MCAT enough to go to a DO School more likely than not. And if you find you don't want to do that you have more than enough of what it takes to get into some other highly respected and successful field.

 

[EthylMethylMan]

We really need to have an admin put a banner at the top of each page saying, "Do not apply Caribbean."

 

[NeuResurgens]

Many schools do this unfortunately. My school is one of the more pretentious and elitist institutions out there, yet they spam my inbox like it's their day job.

My school doesn't really do these in newsletters, but the fliers for the Caribbean schools are all over the bulletin boards by the classrooms. These guys are a business and they advertise like it. Schools are more than happy to take their money just to send out a few announcements.

"Approximately 97% of their graduates obtain residencies in North America"

These schools *Straight. Up. Lie.* about their stats. They throw around ridiculous numbers when asked about their average Step I scores, too.

 

[efle]

Your school should be ashamed of itself.

Anything to boost that "% of premeds we get into MD school" statistic

Many schools do this unfortunately. My school is one of the more pretentious and elitist institutions out there, yet they spam my inbox like it's their day job.

Seriously? I've never heard of any Top 20 plugging Carib programs.

 

[ZedsDed]

Anything to boost that "% of premeds we get into MD school" statistic



Seriously? I've never heard of any Top 20 plugging Carib programs.

I don't think it's top 20. They are pretentious and elitist nonetheless.

The counselors for the biology department (shocking I know) hosted some Prof. from St. George's to show students how to "succeed in medical school and beyond." I LOLed for about five minutes straight.

 

[Goro]

It's almost time for argus to come in sputtering "but, but, NRMP!"

 

[ZedsDed]

Just went back and looked at the email. Students were encouraged to sign up for a one-on-one advising session (45 minutes) with an admissions faculty member at SGU . So this is what my school's counselors consider "good premed counseling."

 

[frosted_flake]

Your school should be ashamed of itself.

My old school I transferred from had those posters EVERYWHERE!!! My new school does not, and has a higher rate of getting students into med school!
Correlation???

 

[efle]

My old school I transferred from had those posters EVERYWHERE!!! My new school does not, and has a higher rate of getting students into med school!
Correlation???

Well the school can't totally control the flyers on campus, there are some in the Bio department at Wustl as well. I always chuckle because they have the caduceus plastered all over instead of the rod of asclepius. Never had the school officially endorse Carib though, and certainly not invite people to come promote it...

I don't think it's top 20. They are pretentious and elitist nonetheless.

The counselors for the biology department (shocking I know) hosted some Prof. from St. George's to show students how to "succeed in medical school and beyond." I LOLed for about five minutes straight.

PMed

 

[NeuResurgens]

Well the school can't totally control the flyers on campus, there are some in the Bio department at Wustl as well. I always chuckle because they have the caduceus plastered all over instead of the rod of asclepius. Never had the school officially endorse Carib though, and certainly not invite people to come promote it...

This has always been interesting to me. I don't understand how the caduceus became associated with medicine in the first place.

We need to get our Ancient Greek mythology right. Jeez.

 

[efle]

This has always been interesting to me. I don't understand how the caduceus became associated with medicine in the first place.

Here's a theory: maybe some first-response aid sensibly adopted the caduceus as a symbol since hermes=speed, and people mistook it as representing medicine. It doesn't help that the two symbols are so similar

 

[WedgeDawg]

Anything to boost that "% of premeds we get into MD school" statistic



Seriously? I've never heard of any Top 20 plugging Carib programs.

They do, don't worry. The bio department here has plenty of flyers up for St. George's and "Washington University of Health and Science" which touts itself as a "top Caribbean medical school".

Of course, not too many people outside of the premedical community understand that these are complete scams, which is probably why they're still up.

Edit: If anyone wants to lol, here's a fun part of their website: http://www.wuhs.org/welcome-dr-marilyn-gates/

They just recruited a "nurse surgeon"

Which is really a misspelling of "neurosurgeon".

This link is on their front page.

That doesn't even touch upon the poor grammar.

 

[efle]

They do, don't worry. The bio department here has plenty of flyers up for St. George's and "Washington University of Health and Science" which touts itself as a "top Caribbean medical school".

Of course, not too many people outside of the premedical community understand that these are complete scams, which is probably why they're still up.

Edit: If anyone wants to lol, here's a fun part of their website: http://www.wuhs.org/welcome-dr-marilyn-gates/

They just recruited a "nurse surgeon"

Which is really a misspelling of "neurosurgeon".

This link is on their front page.

That doesn't even touch upon the poor grammar.

Having flyers up is totally different from inviting people to come recruit for carib programs though! They just don't put in effort to take them down. They're up in WashU Bio too but no advisers would ever say Carib was an option

You'd think that despite being questionably ethical, as a business they should be big enough and wealthy enough to present themselves well

 

[NeuResurgens]

Here's a theory: maybe some first-response aid sensibly adopted the caduceus as a symbol since hermes=speed, and people mistook it as representing medicine. It doesn't help that the two symbols are so similar

The similarity is the biggest factor, I'd say. One snake vs. two snakes + wings is pretty easy to mess up.

 

[WingedOx]

Carib + Naturopathy?

this is going to be fun.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

The other bus that's coming is that it will be harder for these students to get loans.

You really think so? I've heard their lobby power is incredible.

 

[WingedOx]

"Approximately 97% of their graduates obtain residencies in CONCACAF"

FTFthem

 

[WingedOx]

Many schools do this unfortunately. My school is one of the more pretentious and elitist institutions out there, yet they spam my inbox like it's their day job.

Anyone who's been around here long enough may remember that the dude who ran Stewart University paid for an ad in the Stanford school paper.

 

[efle]

Anyone who's been around here long enough may remember that the dude who ran Stewart University paid for an ad in the Stanford school paper.

Struggling academically for the first time in your life? Afraid you won't be able to continue satisfying your parents' craving for vicarious prestige? Worry no more, Stewart University is here!

 

[frosted_flake]

They do, don't worry. The bio department here has plenty of flyers up for St. George's and "Washington University of Health and Science" which touts itself as a "top Caribbean medical school".

Of course, not too many people outside of the premedical community understand that these are complete scams, which is probably why they're still up.

Edit: If anyone wants to lol, here's a fun part of their website: http://www.wuhs.org/welcome-dr-marilyn-gates/

They just recruited a "nurse surgeon"

Which is really a misspelling of "neurosurgeon".

This link is on their front page.

That doesn't even touch upon the poor grammar.

...

 

[Law2Doc]

"College of Perfect Health"... Sounds legit.

Maybe all you premeds should just send me your money. I won't lie to you and tell you you'll have a career afterwards. And I won't waste four years of your life. I'll even print you out a nice certificate on watermarked printer paper in four years saying you are graduates of the L2D School of Perfect Health, qualified to practice in none of the 50 states. If you send enough money we will have a whole white coat ceremony and then a graduation ceremony you can invite people to. You can feel free to tell friends and family and girls in bars that you are in medical school, which I'm guessing is the only real benefit of any of these schools. Heck if you want you can push back graduation and redshirt for a year or two to maximize the time you can live the med school dream. No overnight rotation, no tests, no leaving the country. Who's in?

 

[NeuResurgens]

"College of Perfect Health"... Sounds legit.

Maybe all you premeds should just send me your money. I won't lie to you and tell you you'll have a career afterwards. And I won't waste four years of your life. I'll even print you out a nice certificate on watermarked printer paper in four years saying you are graduates of the L2D School of Perfect Health, qualified to practice in none of the 50 states. If you send enough money we will have a whole white coat ceremony and then a graduation ceremony you can invite people to. You can feel free to tell friends and family and girls in bars that you are in medical school, which I'm guessing is the only real benefit of any of these schools. Heck if you want you can push back graduation and redshirt for a year or two to maximize the time you can live the med school dream. No overnight rotation, no tests, no leaving the country. Who's in?

 

[Womb Raider]

This has always been interesting to me. I don't understand how the caduceus became associated with medicine in the first place.

Here's a theory: maybe some first-response aid sensibly adopted the caduceus as a symbol since hermes=speed, and people mistook it as representing medicine. It doesn't help that the two symbols are so similar

Lol yeah I was going to say a more likely explanation is the visual similarity. People that aren't involved in medicine most likely neither know the difference between the two nor care.

According to wiki, the Caduceus gained popularity as a result of the US Army Medical Corps adopting the symbol as its insignia in 1902 "at the insistence of a single officer" (lol). I've also seen healthcare workers with the tattoo of the caduceus... Hope they were in the military.

 

[NeuResurgens]

Lol yeah I was going to say a more likely explanation is the visual similarity. People that aren't involved in medicine most likely neither know the difference between the two nor care.

According to wiki, the Caduceus gained popularity as a result of the US Army Medical Corps adopting the symbol as its insignia in 1902 "at the insistence of a single officer" (lol). I've also seen healthcare workers with the tattoo of the caduceus... Hope they were in the military.

"Oh hey.. I didn't realize you were into commerce on the side!"

 

[Stagg737]

You really want to go to a school that makes claims like this?

"In 1955 Maharishi Mahesh Yogi began offering to the world the quintessence of the timeless wisdom of the Himalayas. He founded the simple, natural technique of Transcendental Meditation®, which allows anyone to experience and utilize the source of infinite intelligence and creativity within – the field of pure consciousness. This effortless and systematic technique had been lost to human life until brought to us by Maharishi, inspired by his own teacher."

Gotta say thanks to OP though, just spent about 20 minutes exploring their website and got some good chuckles out of it. I bookmarked it so I can go back and read it when I need to feel better about my life choices.

 

[xBODOMx]

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[Law2Doc]

I doubt it. The last legislature ordeal was stopped by Ross alone.

Just out of curiosity, why does everyone think that FMG/IMG will start receiving less US residency spots? I know the merger is happening, but I'm unsure of why that affects IMGs. Anyone have any concrete evidence of less spots going to them? Of course I'm all for it. I personally believe that more spots should be for the US students, not saying that some of the FMGs aren't qualified though.

Um the merger is not causing this. The merger is happening because of the impending residency slot crunch and DO saw the writing on the wall and wanted to get out of the way of the coming onslaught (IMGs/FMGs won't be able to). Basically, since 2005 the AAMC has been urging US allo schools to increase enrollment, and they have been doing so. Additionally many allo and osteo schools have been opened since that time. The push was that the AAMC feels US schools should fill all US healthcare needs and that LCME oversight is necessary for quality control. Residencies have not been significantly increasing over the past decade. So It will only be a number of years until US allo student graduating approximates the number of residency slots. The AAMC website has a Nice color graph showing enrollment and residency slot projections that has been cited on SDN periodically. And this week there was a national article (CNN?) indicating that even some US Deans were worried that not all US allo med students are going to match in the near term.

 

[efle]

Um the merger is not causing this. The merger is happening because of the impending residency slot crunch and DO saw the writing on the wall and wanted to get out of the way of the coming onslaught (IMGs/FMGs won't be able to). Basically, since 2005 the AAMC has been urging US allo schools to increase enrollment, and they have been doing so. Additionally many allo and osteo schools have been opened since that time. The push was that the AAMC feels US schools should fill all US healthcare needs and that LCME oversight is necessary for quality control. Residencies have not been significantly increasing over the past decade. So It will only be a number of years until US allo student graduating approximates the number of residency slots. The AAMC website has a Nice color graph showing enrollment and residency slot projections that has been cited on SDN periodically. And this week there was a national article (CNN?) indicating that even some US Deans were worried that not all US allo med students are going to match in the near term.

Wow, US MDs not matching, that's terrifying. Taking on a quarter million in debt and not even being sure you'll match...yikes

 

[Goro]

Basically, the folks at AMA (AOA) are tired of unqualified students pulling an end-around by going to Caribbean diploma mills. Yes, they have cash to roll politicians with, but so does the AMA.

I doubt it. The last legislature ordeal was stopped by Ross alone.

Just out of curiosity, why does everyone think that FMG/IMG will start receiving less US residency spots? I know the merger is happening, but I'm unsure of why that affects IMGs. Anyone have any concrete evidence of less spots going to them? Of course I'm all for it. I personally believe that more spots should be for the US students, not saying that some of the FMGs aren't qualified though.

 

[Law2Doc]

Wow, US MDs not matching, that's terrifying. Taking on a quarter million in debt and not even being sure you'll match...yikes

I doubt it will happen -- things will slow down as we approach the equilibrium of US grads and residency slots. And maybe residency slots will increase a bit at that point, but doubtful. What will happen is all non-US schooled people will be SOL, and a lot of US schooled people will be crammed down into specialties and geographic locales based on their competitiveness rather than their desires (ie somebody has to take that lower paying FM spot in Idaho). Which means if you are going into medicine you'd better not be "ortho or bust" because there will be a very real opportunity to bust in the future.

 

[efle]

I doubt it will happen -- things will slow down as we approach the equilibrium of US grads and residency slots. And maybe residency slots will increase a bit at that point, but doubtful. What will happen is all non-US schooled people will be SOL, and a lot of US schooled people will be crammed down into specialties and geographic locales based on their competitiveness rather than their desires (ie somebody has to take that lower paying FM spot in Idaho). Which means if you are going into medicine you'd better not be "ortho or bust" because there will be a very real opportunity to bust in the future.

Sounds like a recipe for miserable physicians forced by crushing debt into specialties they don't like

 

[Law2Doc]

Sounds like a recipe for miserable physicians forced by crushing debt into specialties they don't like

Best to stay at the top half of the curve and/or be one of those people who will be happy just to become a doctor, not only in a particular specialty.

But truth of the matter is it really doesn't change anything. As US schools expand they are taking in a lot of the people that would have otherwise most likely been successful offshore. So that same guy forced into a FM spot in Idaho might have been otherwise coming from an offshore school and happy to just take anything.

 

[xBODOMx]

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