Caribbean Schools...yeah I know

[FutureDoc1992]

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I know this question has been around since the very inception of SDN and I've been posting a lot on here lately, but anxiety has never been so high.

When do you think the Carribeean School is a viable option, meaning the last resort/only place to get accpeted and go.

I have had a VERY tough last month, with a bad financial situation having to take a W in Physics and an emergency appendectomy so maybe I am just depressed. But I am not feeling good applying to medical school right now or next summer, meaning I don't feel very confident. cGPA is great, sGPA eh, needs work. Its such a shame that we all have such a passion for medicine and helping others and yet it is so difficult to do something that already involves so much sacrifice and time. I just want to be physician, MD, DO I don't care, any words of advice will be most appreciated, sorry for the rant.

 

[Torilynn92]

Hi FutureDoc 🙂 I think it sounds like you have a lot going on right now, and you may be prematurely giving up hope. One of my favorite sayings is: "Don't give up on a dream because of the time it will take to accomplish it; the time will pass anyway." Maybe wait out this cycle, knock Physics out of the park, and keep a keen eye on your gallbladder so you don't end up with any more emergency abdominal surgeries. 😉 Then apply next cycle and kick butt (or even the one after it, when you may feel more confident).

 

[MerciMerci]

When do you think the Carribeean School is a viable option, meaning the last resort/only place to get accpeted and go.

Never (At least as an American, don't know about other countries)

 

[Promethean]

If you think you had a bad financial situation now, try out life with hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, no degree... or if you get a degree, no residency and thus no right to practice.

Going offshore gives you about a 50% chance of not graduating, and if you graduate, about a 50% chance of not getting a residency.

We can quibble about those numbers. Maybe your odds are a little better at one school than another, etc. But basically... if someone offered you a raffle ticket that cost $300k and several years of your life, and it gave you only a 1 in 4 chance of becoming a doctor, would you buy it? Under what circumstances would you consider that a good deal?

Seriously? If you are passionate, and committed, and willing to take an extra year or two to really prepare, you can find a way into a US school. If you can't get your grades and scores up to where they need to be with a couple of years of solid effort, you *should* reassess. Even then, the door may not be closed, but no one would be doing you any favors to let you in before you are actually ready.

 

[OverlyRomantic]

Hey, I think @Torilynn92 explained it very eloquently. If you're worried about your sGPA, then maybe retake some classes and take advantage of the DO grade forgiveness policy. If you're truly passionate about this, then don't give up. I didn't get in on my first try, and that's okay. It's not the end of the world! As for the Caribbean, it wasn't a viable option before, and with the residency merger coming up it's going to be even worse to go the Caribbean route. You can look at previous threads on this forum to see the statistical breakdown for why U.S. MDs and D.O.s are so much better than Caribbean.

 

[DrPatriot]

Quote brought to you courtesy of the US Navy SEALs.

You got this OP. Everyone struggles, you just need to keep working at it. Caribbean isn't a smart option.

 

[FutureDoc1992]

Thanks everyone! My advisor who is extremely trustworthy and knowledgeable in my opinion, said its ok to retake at CC even? I think he meant for financial reasons but still, what do you think?

 

[Goro]

I do not consider the Carib schools to be viable options, period, and doing something else than rather being a doctor is better than being an unemployed doctor, who is actually unemployable in Medicine.

If you want to be a doctor, you have to work for it.

I know this question has been around since the very inception of SDN and I've been posting a lot on here lately, but anxiety has never been so high.

When do you think the Carribeean School is a viable option, meaning the last resort/only place to get accpeted and go.

I have had a VERY tough last month, with a bad financial situation having to take a W in Physics and an emergency appendectomy so maybe I am just depressed. But I am not feeling good applying to medical school right now or next summer, meaning I don't feel very confident. cGPA is great, sGPA eh, needs work. Its such a shame that we all have such a passion for medicine and helping others and yet it is so difficult to do something that already involves so much sacrifice and time. I just want to be physician, MD, DO I don't care, any words of advice will be most appreciated, sorry for the rant.

Yes!!

Thanks everyone! My advisor who is extremely trustworthy and knowledgeable in my opinion, said its ok to retake at CC even? I think he meant for financial reasons but still, what do you think?

 

[Dr Tony T. Chopper]

Your passion to become a physician is strong, so why not use it to prepare and repair any weakness in your application before taking on the next cycle? You should not be pulling the trigger on a carrib school unless you are absolutely clear of the risks involved.

 

[FutureDoc1992]

Turning the subject a bit, but do you think Physics 2 before the MCAT is that necessary?? I am so god awful in Physics and here it is becoming less emphasized on the 2015 MCAT? Please tell me I won't be doing page long mathematical calculations as a physician 🙁

 

[Promethean]

Just do it. Don't look for short cuts or ways to dodge hard courses. Physics isn't impossible to learn. You just have to be willing to put in the hours of study and to work the problems. The more you do, the more sense it makes, and the better you will score, even if they de-emphasize it. You can't afford to throw away any points on that test.

I say this as someone who also really dislikes doing math problems.

No, you won't be doing it as a physician, probably, but doing it and doing well in it is one of the hoops you have to jump through to get where you want to go.

 

[Seth Joo]

I know this question has been around since the very inception of SDN and I've been posting a lot on here lately, but anxiety has never been so high.

When do you think the Carribeean School is a viable option, meaning the last resort/only place to get accpeted and go.

I have had a VERY tough last month, with a bad financial situation having to take a W in Physics and an emergency appendectomy so maybe I am just depressed. But I am not feeling good applying to medical school right now or next summer, meaning I don't feel very confident. cGPA is great, sGPA eh, needs work. Its such a shame that we all have such a passion for medicine and helping others and yet it is so difficult to do something that already involves so much sacrifice and time. I just want to be physician, MD, DO I don't care, any words of advice will be most appreciated, sorry for the rant.

You are much better off going the DO route than a foreign MD route, particularly the Caribbean schools, many of the more well known schools like to furnish numbers that state as many as 90 percent of their students passed the USMLE on the first try, what they forgot to mention is that is the number after they fail out at least half of the students, they also do not mention residency placement numbers which have plummeted in the last several years. The odd thing is that some schools are getting students that can probably get into DO programs but for some misguided reason or lack of common sense decide to go to an island school. The real numbers are half of the students graduate with a degree and only half of those wind up getting to practice medicine, so the odds are 1 in 4 that you will be a doctor coming from a Caribbean medical school.

 

[hopefulERdoc251]

I know this question has been around since the very inception of SDN and I've been posting a lot on here lately, but anxiety has never been so high.

When do you think the Carribeean School is a viable option, meaning the last resort/only place to get accpeted and go.

I have had a VERY tough last month, with a bad financial situation having to take a W in Physics and an emergency appendectomy so maybe I am just depressed. But I am not feeling good applying to medical school right now or next summer, meaning I don't feel very confident. cGPA is great, sGPA eh, needs work. Its such a shame that we all have such a passion for medicine and helping others and yet it is so difficult to do something that already involves so much sacrifice and time. I just want to be physician, MD, DO I don't care, any words of advice will be most appreciated, sorry for the rant.

My 0.02 cents: remember, life is rarely a linear course. There are un(expected) bumps along the way but if you think medicine is the career you want, then no matter how long it will take (within reason), work hard and you will achieve your goals.

1. Take some time off, get your health back into shape. That is priority #1, always will be.
2. Then sit back and reevaluate. You need to take x # of courses prereqs (physics), make the arrangements to take the course (financial and mental)
3. Study and ROCK the MCAT (assuming you haven't)
4. Apply
5. Sit back, let the II's come, let the Acceptances come, rejoice.

If you say your cGPA is "great", then you show a degree of academic prowess, don't let things psych you out. I went through my own health/family problems over my undergraduate and have stuck by it and now have my first acceptance and II's in the waiting. It feels amazing, it's a sweet feeling knowing that everything you put forth pays off. Just keep that in mind 🙂 If you need to talk to anybody, feel free to PM me

BY NO MEANS GO CARRIBEAN! In the wise words of my pre-health advisor (she actually said something useful for once!)- some of the tuition money from carribean schools are used to help fund traveling/vacation-conferences in the carribean/south.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

-MD
-DO
-DPM
-PA
-PH.D
-Nurse
-High school teacher
-Lifeguard
-Cement worker
-Guy who holds the sign during construction

If you have tried to become all of these things (and others I fail to mention) and failed then it might be time to go to the Carribean

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

In all seriousness though you got this OP, If you work hard enough then DO is always an option! Don't quit now! It's a marathon, not a sprint as the wise Goro is prone to say.

 

[Dr. Death]

Don't give up! And just as importantly don't go to the caribbean. It may take you a minute but you can get to medical school if you really want to. At my UG they just hired an adjunct MD. She graduated from a university in the Carribean (don't remember which one). She has been unable to secure a residency the last two years and is now teaching a one credit senior seminar probably getting paid 3000$ for the semester. Don't go that route.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

-MD
-DO
-DPM
-PA
-PH.D
-Nurse
-High school teacher
-Lifeguard
-Cement worker
-Guy who holds the sign during construction

If you have tried to become all of these things (and others I fail to mention) and failed then it might be time to go to the Carribean

"guy that holds the sign during construction" LOL

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

I know this question has been around since the very inception of SDN and I've been posting a lot on here lately, but anxiety has never been so high.

When do you think the Carribeean School is a viable option, meaning the last resort/only place to get accpeted and go.

I have had a VERY tough last month, with a bad financial situation having to take a W in Physics and an emergency appendectomy so maybe I am just depressed. But I am not feeling good applying to medical school right now or next summer, meaning I don't feel very confident. cGPA is great, sGPA eh, needs work. Its such a shame that we all have such a passion for medicine and helping others and yet it is so difficult to do something that already involves so much sacrifice and time. I just want to be physician, MD, DO I don't care, any words of advice will be most appreciated, sorry for the rant.

Everyone on SDN who has been here for a while has seen the many Carib horror stories. I think everyone has the same advise for you. Work hard and get where you need to be for DO/MD school. If you don't want to do this, then don't waste your time with medical school. Be the "guy holding the construction sign" because if you go to Carib, you may STILL end up being that guy holding the construction sign, so might as well just cut straight to it.

 

[Glandzburg]

You acknowledged the existence of all of the anti-Carib threads, so I'm assuming you've read through at least some of them. You aren't going to get any different advice than those that have asked before you; going Carib is NOT a viable "last resort" anymore! It is a cruel trap for those not willing to do what they need to do to make themselves competitive for US MD/DO.

 

[SlugMD]

I guarantee you stay the hell away from caribbean schools after reading this blog, please read if you haven't already: https://milliondollarmistake.wordpress.com

Also, this thread was started by @Goro a few months ago provides further information why DO>>>>>>>>>>>>Caribbean
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/do-carib-and-all-that.1147693/

 

[Seth Joo]

Everyone on SDN who has been here for a while has seen the many Carib horror stories. I think everyone has the same advise for you. Work hard and get where you need to be for DO/MD school. If you don't want to do this, then don't waste your time with medical school. Be the "guy holding the construction sign" because if you go to Carib, you may STILL end up being that guy holding the construction sign, so might as well just cut straight to it.

Not all foreign medical schools are substandard, schools in wealthy English speaking countries are on the same level as the best US MD schools but very few of their graduates ever decide to practice in the US. I had a friend who went to an Irish medical school, but its admissions standards were very high, and he is an attending at Harvard.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

Not all foreign medical schools are substandard, schools in wealthy English speaking countries are on the same level as the best US MD schools but very few of their graduates ever decide to practice in the US. I had a friend who went to an Irish medical school, but its admissions standards were very high, and he is an attending at Harvard.

I was referring to Carib schools

 

[Seth Joo]

I was referring to Carib schools

Caribbean schools are diploma mills that is why these schools have near open admissions policies.

 

[ortnakas]

I know this question has been around since the very inception of SDN and I've been posting a lot on here lately, but anxiety has never been so high.

When do you think the Carribeean School is a viable option, meaning the last resort/only place to get accpeted and go.

I have had a VERY tough last month, with a bad financial situation having to take a W in Physics and an emergency appendectomy so maybe I am just depressed. But I am not feeling good applying to medical school right now or next summer, meaning I don't feel very confident. cGPA is great, sGPA eh, needs work. Its such a shame that we all have such a passion for medicine and helping others and yet it is so difficult to do something that already involves so much sacrifice and time. I just want to be physician, MD, DO I don't care, any words of advice will be most appreciated, sorry for the rant.

You can still be a physician in the US... just maybe not right now. Get through physics (it should be easier without a burst appendix), get a handle on your mental health-- that's important. Med school does take a lot of sacrifice and time, like you said, so while you should go for it if it's still what you want, it may be in your best interest to take a year or two to get everything else sorted out, both academics and otherwise. In the long run, you're far better of going for a DO in 3 years than you would be going to the Caribbean next year.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Not all foreign medical schools are substandard, schools in wealthy English speaking countries are on the same level as the best US MD schools but very few of their graduates ever decide to practice in the US. I had a friend who went to an Irish medical school, but its admissions standards were very high, and he is an attending at Harvard.

Thank you for such an insightful comment in a thread asking about the Caribbean medical schools....

 

[Seth Joo]

Thank you for such an insightful comment in a thread asking about the Caribbean medical schools....

RVU which is a DO School outside of Denver was founded by a family associated with building offshore Caribbean medical schools, the Tien family. Many people in the DO community did not like RVU for this reason, LUCOM now is the latest controversy that has overshadowed RVU. RVU is turning out to be a fairly good DO school despite its for profit status and association with the Tien family.

 

[Glandzburg]

RVU which is a DO School outside of Denver was founded by a family associated with building offshore Caribbean medical schools, the Tien family. Many people in the DO community did not like RVU for this reason, LUCOM now is the latest controversy that has overshadowed RVU. RVU is turning out to be a fairly good DO school despite its for profit status and association with the Tien family.

Why are you spewing random trivia about schools that are irrelevant to OP's question? Help me try to follow your train of thought here...

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

RVU which is a DO School outside of Denver was founded by a family associated with building offshore Caribbean medical schools, the Tien family. Many people in the DO community did not like RVU for this reason, LUCOM now is the latest controversy that has overshadowed RVU. RVU is turning out to be a fairly good DO school despite its for profit status and association with the Tien family.

Ah yes.... Oh wait no that was just another comment completely unrelated. Not only to The OP's question, but also my comment. Please stop spewing random trivia factoids.

 

[Seth Joo]

-MD
-DO
-DPM
-PA
-PH.D
-Nurse
-High school teacher
-Lifeguard
-Cement worker
-Guy who holds the sign during construction

If you have tried to become all of these things (and others I fail to mention) and failed then it might be time to go to the Carribean

I disagree with you listing DPM, Podiatry does not have good career prospects for its graduates. I would say after MD and DO, the next best thing is Dentistry in terms of providing a stable good living. My school has both a Dental and Podiatry school, quite a few students gave up Podiatry and reapplied to the DO program because DOs have far more opportunity.

 

[deleted407021]

I disagree with you listing DPM, Podiatry does not have good career prospects for its graduates. I would say after MD and DO, the next best thing is Dentistry in terms of providing a stable good living. My school has both a Dental and Podiatry school, quite a few students gave up Podiatry and reapplied to the DO program because DOs have far more opportunity.

'Twas in jest m8

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I disagree with you listing DPM, Podiatry does not have good career prospects for its graduates. I would say after MD and DO, the next best thing is Dentistry in terms of providing a stable good living. My school has both a Dental and Podiatry school, quite a few students gave up Podiatry and reapplied to the DO program because DOs have far more opportunity.

By that train of thinking and interpretation of my post no one should ever do construction because "MD/DO" has better prospects... Umm duh...
In response to OPs question again I do actually believe that being a podiatrist is far better than going to the Carib. Going DPM over MD/DO or DDS (Which is about as competative as medical school so it really isn't a back-up) is not what I said, which obviously have better prospects. But if you put in the time OP and are capable of doing ok on the MCAT then there is no reason you can't go to DO school.

 

[IslandStyle808]

I disagree with you listing DPM, Podiatry does not have good career prospects for its graduates. I would say after MD and DO, the next best thing is Dentistry in terms of providing a stable good living. My school has both a Dental and Podiatry school, quite a few students gave up Podiatry and reapplied to the DO program because DOs have far more opportunity.

Not sure of your point, because being a doctors has far more fields to choose from and podiatry is one track. In general, being a physician has better job prospects than dentistry and podiatry.

 

[FutureDoc1992]

For the record, I have basically crossed MD off my application plans with the exception of MAYBE my state school (which is quite competitive so I'm still not sure). Like I said, I have some W's some B's and a C, along with a D I retook and got an A at least. The problem is most of these lower grades are in pre-reqs and sciences as my cGPA is a 3.7, sGPA is what is hurting along with mediocre EC's. All I have going for me is my "story" in life which will still be subjective to each person. I have my heart set on DO now, not because it's "easier" but because I want to be a physician and my chances lie really only there now. I can't compete with some MD apps who have a 4.0 GPA 4 years straight 32/520+ MCAT scores and more altruistic EC's than Gandhi. As if these all equate to one being a better physician than someone else.

Lets see a kid whose parents are very well off support him financially, so he has no work, can volunteer shadow and study all the time. Than you have someone who works 2 jobs just to keep money in their pocket, and is absolutely exhausted so their grades suffer a bit. It really is not an entirely fair process. I know they have to use GPA and MCAT to show some kind of potential but it should not be a sole indicator.

 

[Glandzburg]

For the record, I have basically crossed MD off my application plans with the exception of MAYBE my state school (which is quite competitive so I'm still not sure). Like I said, I have some W's some B's and a C, along with a D I retook and got an A at least. The problem is most of these lower grades are in pre-reqs and sciences as my cGPA is a 3.7, sGPA is what is hurting along with mediocre EC's. All I have going for me is my "story" in life which will still be subjective to each person. I have my heart set on DO now, not because it's "easier" but because I want to be a physician and my chances lie really only there now. I can't compete with some MD apps who have a 4.0 GPA 4 years straight 32/520+ MCAT scores and more altruistic EC's than Gandhi. As if these all equate to one being a better physician than someone else.

Lets see a kid whose parents are very well off support him financially, so he has no work, can volunteer shadow and study all the time. Than you have someone who works 2 jobs just to keep money in their pocket, and is absolutely exhausted so their grades suffer a bit. It really is not an entirely fair process. I know they have to use GPA and MCAT to show some kind of potential but it should not be a sole indicator.

They are certainly not the sole indicator. However, schools do have to make an assessment about whether or not you'll be able to handle the academically challenging environment of medical school. There isn't really a better way to do that than to see if you've had a history of success in your classes/prereqs. There is no point in accepting people that will end up failing out. High MCAT scores and GPAs may not correlate with being a more compassionate physician, but they do correlate with whether or not you'll be a good medical student (a necessary step in the pathway to becoming a good physician).

That being said, your circumstances will be taken into consideration. It is not easy having to work to pay your way through college, and adcoms recognize that. But you still must make sure that you are hitting the necessary "cutoffs" as others in your situation have done.

TL;DR - grades/MCAT are not the only things taken into consideration, but they are still important.

 

[Seth Joo]

Not sure of your point, because being a doctors has far more fields to choose from and podiatry is one track. In general, being a physician has better job prospects than dentistry and podiatry.

A physician has better job prospects than a Podiatrist, but not a Dentist, Dentists can still do fairly well, its mostly because Physicians cannot perform the services that a Dentist provides, but some of the services a Podiatrist provides a Physician can provide.

 

[Dr. Death]

A physician has better job prospects than a Podiatrist, but not a Dentist, Dentists can still do fairly well, its mostly because Physicians cannot perform the services that a Dentist provides, but some of the services a Podiatrist provides a Physician can provide.

Dentists have oversaturated the marked in most places.

 

[Seth Joo]

Dentists have oversaturated the marked in most places.

Its not that much better for many physicians in larger cities, both specialists and primary care physicians. Of course you have shortages in rural and inner city communities but there is a good reason for that.

 

[IslandStyle808]

A physician has better job prospects than a Podiatrist, but not a Dentist, Dentists can still do fairly well, its mostly because Physicians cannot perform the services that a Dentist provides, but some of the services a Podiatrist provides a Physician can provide.

It is still cheaper to use the podiatrist than the physician for certain services (it depends on the physician and the service). This is why a hospital would be more willing to get the podiatrist over the orthopedic surgeon who sub specializes in foot and ankle surgery.

 

[Seth Joo]

It is still cheaper to use the podiatrist than the physician for certain services (it depends on the physician and the service). This is why a hospital would be more willing to get the podiatrist over the orthopedic surgeon who sub specializes in foot and ankle surgery.

If you look at the Podiatry sections at lot of people are writing about the poor job opportunities for them, and there are other boards on the internet filled with a lot of negative stories. There is a Podiatry school associated with my DO school and I know a few Pod students, a couple of them left the program to be in the DO program because our program offers more opportunity.

 

[j4pac]

You can't help others until you help yourself first. You sound like you need a break to decompress. Take a break...do grade forgiveness for the classes you did poorly with...then apply when you are ready.