Caribbean

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mellsworth21

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I know that there is a Caribbean thread on here, but I wanted to ask an unbiased group as to how they view Caribbean grads? Have you worked with them, are they as knowledgable, are they looked down upon, etc.
In addition if things dont go that well for me here in the US, after hours and hours of research I've concluded that Saint George, Saba, American University, and far lastly Ross. As you may of guessed I would appreciate your comments on those as well.
My soon to be fatherinlaw graduated from San Padro and had some difficulties passing the USMLE part 1, he blamed it on the school, I think that all graduate level work is largely dependent on you, not the school but thats my 2 cents. In addition, I dont know if San Pedros coursework was aimed towards US liscensure.
And please dont take me as a slacker, I am bot looking for any easy roads I just want to have a B or C plan. Thanks, and Happy New Year to everyone🙂
Glückliches Neujahr!
 
to put it shortly, if you can't get into US medschools after ~2 tries, go for the carribeans, namely SGU and Ross (top 2 schools where i've heard students are pretty happy about their education and outcome). medschol is ultimately what you make of it. these 2 schools will do a good job of preping you for boards, if you're willing to put in the work. when it comes down to it, it's really about whether you want to be a doctor or not. do you care more about reputation? than opt for DO. i persoanly wouldn't have a problem going carribena had i not been accepted this year. ultimately, you have to ask yourself the important questions and make decisions based on what you want. gluck! :luck:

I know that there is a Caribbean thread on here, but I wanted to ask an unbiased group as to how they view Caribbean grads? Have you worked with them, are they as knowledgable, are they looked down upon, etc.
In addition if things dont go that well for me here in the US, after hours and hours of research I've concluded that Saint George, Saba, American University, and far lastly Ross. As you may of guessed I would appreciate your comments on those as well.
My soon to be fatherinlaw graduated from San Padro and had some difficulties passing the USMLE part 1, he blamed it on the school, I think that all graduate level work is largely dependent on you, not the school but thats my 2 cents. In addition, I dont know if San Pedros coursework was aimed towards US liscensure.
And please dont take me as a slacker, I am bot looking for any easy roads I just want to have a B or C plan. Thanks, and Happy New Year to everyone🙂
Glückliches Neujahr!
 
but I wanted to ask an unbiased group as to how they view Caribbean grads? Have you worked with them, are they as knowledgable, are they looked down upon, etc. In addition if things dont go that well for me here in the US, after hours and hours of research I've concluded that Saint George, Saba, American University, and far lastly Ross.

Two things, real quick:
1. You're not going to find a more biased group, as a whole, than the members of the premed community on SDN. They mostly operate off of rumor, supisition, innuendo, and occasional small slivers of truth obtained second hand.
2. Most of us (myself being one exception) have little if any REAL clinical experience so to ask them to compare grads of one school over another, that's like asking a truck driver in Guadelejara which is nicer to fly as a pilot...an Airbus or a Boeing.
 
to put it shortly, if you can't get into US medschools after ~2 tries, go for the carribeans, namely SGU and Ross (top 2 schools where i've heard students are pretty happy about their education and outcome). medschol is ultimately what you make of it. these 2 schools will do a good job of preping you for boards, if you're willing to put in the work. when it comes down to it, it's really about whether you want to be a doctor or not. do you care more about reputation? than opt for DO. i persoanly wouldn't have a problem going carribena had i not been accepted this year. ultimately, you have to ask yourself the important questions and make decisions based on what you want. gluck! :luck:

Wow...you got interviews/acceptances (no less at Mayo) with a 2.9 and 2.8????? Man I wish I had that luck.
 
Wow...you got interviews/acceptances (no less at Mayo) with a 2.9 and 2.8????? Man I wish I had that luck.

Look at her post-bac and special master's grades. It wasn't luck!
 
Look at her post-bac and special master's grades. It wasn't luck!

Agreed. Saying "luck" had something to do with her sucess would take away all the hardwork she put in to improve her application. GH you are truly an inspiration for the low uGPA ppl on this board.
 
Well, I think most people wouldn't consider Caribbean schools to be their preferred setting for medical education, with the exception of the few who have extraordinary experiences or viewpoints. No, these schools aren't premium microbreweries for doctors, but they do produce competent doctors; that's what matters to the majority of US students who attend them. It's an opportunity to practice medicine, to pursue their dream.

These types of schools tend to give a significant pool of applicants a chance to prove themselves in medical school, as long as you hand them a big, fat check. It seems that some entering classes are as large as 600 people. They do not provide many of the luxuries of US schools, and probably provide limited academic "help"; from my research, it seems that you are in many ways on your own in the midst of large classes. Some thrive, others don't. In fact, it's my impression that a significant number of people don't make it. Yes, there are likely top students in these schools, too, and every year, some go into highly-competitive residencies.

For the most part, however, I am led to believe that Carribean medical students are at a disadvantage in comparison with their US counterparts. They have much more to prove, don't have as many academic resources available to them, and the residency matching process is probably more challenging for them. Does that mean that Carribean medical students are worse doctors than their US cousins? I don't think so. Do they need to work harder, in general, to achieve similar results? Likely. This won't bother most Caribbean students, however, since they are getting a chance to practice medicine.

Since there isn't a governing body that regulates Carribean schools, the quality varies greatly, from very bad to US-equivalent education. First off, I wouldn't decide to go this route unless you've exhausted every reasonable possibility to matriculate into a US program. If you must go this route, pick the Caribbean schools that have been around for a while, who have affiliations with US hospitals and pre-set 3rd/4th year clinical rotations in the US, who have degrees that are accepted by most US states, and who have a decent match list. You named a few good ones. I've heard that St. George's University is pretty good, indeed.

As far as how graduates are viewed by their peers, there isn't much I can say, since I'm not presently a physician. However, from my limited contact, I would say that while there are jerks who will judge Caribbean grads in a negative light (there is always this crowd in any profession), there doesn't seem to be any real problem professionally. After you graduate, it's mostly about your performance, anyway. If you are a good clinician, then you are good clinician, no matter where you went to school.

In terms of sub-par Caribbean programs, well, that might just make things more hellish. Imagine not having set clinical rotations when you reach MS3; yeah, not good. Don't attend them, unless you have no choice.

I know that there is a Caribbean thread on here, but I wanted to ask an unbiased group as to how they view Caribbean grads? Have you worked with them, are they as knowledgable, are they looked down upon, etc.
In addition if things dont go that well for me here in the US, after hours and hours of research I've concluded that Saint George, Saba, American University, and far lastly Ross. As you may of guessed I would appreciate your comments on those as well.
My soon to be fatherinlaw graduated from San Padro and had some difficulties passing the USMLE part 1, he blamed it on the school, I think that all graduate level work is largely dependent on you, not the school but thats my 2 cents. In addition, I dont know if San Pedros coursework was aimed towards US liscensure.
And please dont take me as a slacker, I am bot looking for any easy roads I just want to have a B or C plan. Thanks, and Happy New Year to everyone🙂
Glückliches Neujahr!
 
This is probably not the best place to ask for an 'unbiased' opinion about the Carribeans. Most people on this boards are aiming for US med schools and have a slight anti-carribean bias possibly. Also, most of us are premeds or med students, hardly qualified to talk about our experience with carribean grads. You may want to venture over to the residency boards for indepth opinions about carribean grads.
 
Considered becoming a DO (osteopathic medicine)? A lot of ppl dont know DO degrees exist....so just asking.

My opinion why Do's are better.

DO >>>>>>>> Carb MD. I know I probably get flamed for this...but here goes. My reasoning is if you go to a DO school, you can tell residency directors you went to DO because you liked OMM. If you believe this to be true it doesnt matter. But if you go to Carb that wont fly and will be pretty obvious why you went there (low MCAT or GPA).

Seriously though if you have an American Citizenship, DO schools offers so much. A DO school will give you residency possibilites in not only DO residencies but MD as well. A good DO school, such as PCOM, is also well respected and could be considered as going to a MD school in terms of reputation. Even some newer DO schools are awesome (eg. LMU looks as if they got a good bunch of dedicated students). There are some to stay away from but go visit the osteopatic board to get that list 😉.

Yes, you gotta take 2 boards and spend time learning OMM, but that should not be a big deal. Also there is a chance you can still be close to your family.

Getting an MD beside your name should not be a big deal. It's the quality of education you should go after. Even though Carb could be a good option, why go overseas when there are as good medical schools at home?

Edit: Do degrees can be also cheaper to get....another consideration I am sure...but dont base your decision on this.
 
I think so far, people have been pretty good in giving an unbiased view but I agree, your topic might drag out the trolls and some biased views. But to answer your original question, if you have tried the MD route and it is not working and you still want to be a doctor, then carrib and DO are a great route to go. As others suggested, I would try DO over Caribb for a number of reasons that people have mentioned. The biggest being that you are a graduate of an americal medical school and there are certain standards that come with being accrediated in the US. Plus, there are many great DOs out there and in your local hospital, you probably wouldn't even know if a DO treats you or an MD treats you. Just alittle different outlook concerning how to view the human body. Also, if you do real well in DO, you can sign early for a residency and not go through the match that MD students have to. (I think you can do the same for caribb but i've heard it is much less common than for DO students who decide to go that route).

If you decide MD and DO isn't the way to go, then caribb is your option. I dont think there is anything wrong but just realize that there might be people in your life that will question you about your background (whether what they are doing it right or wrong). I would consider Ross, SGU as your top chioces as they seem to have the strongest programs in my opinion. I think caribb definitely have their drawbacks and even their admissions people admit they are shooting for those students whose application did not cut it for MD/DO route. Also, caribb schools can be pretty expensive esp when you consider travel to these places is more expensive, some of the schools are located in places where you have to pay extra for some common household items. Eith that said, Ross, SGU and a few of the other top caribb schools have beautiful facilities, awesome campuses and locations and no matter where you are, whether MD, DO, or carrib, if you work hard and want to be a dr in the US, you can become one. I just think if you are middle or below pack in MD or even DO, you will still be a dr, if you do that in the caribb, you might have a hard time getting the placement for residency you would like. Just my opinion.
 
Also wanted to say, I agree totally with spicedmanna's post above. its as good advice as you'll get.


Also, I've done some research on both topics (MD vs DO, MD vs caribb, etc) ,attended info session on caribb schools, do schools and interviewed at md schools. I thought caribb and Do schools would be my backup so i spend some time researching these options and in all my experiences, what people have said so far, is pretty reliable.
 
You may find it helpful to check out the International Medical Forums. They have a whole Carribean forum.

Is Carribean spelled with 2 b's or 2 r's? I always forget.
 
Considered becoming a DO (osteopathic medicine)? A lot of ppl dont know DO degrees exist....so just asking.

My opinion why Do's are better.

DO >>>>>>>> Carb MD. I know I probably get flamed for this...but here goes. My reasoning is if you go to a DO school, you can tell residency directors you went to DO because you liked OMM. If you believe this to be true it doesnt matter. But if you go to Carb that wont fly and will be pretty obvious why you went there (low MCAT or GPA).

Seriously though if you have an American Citizenship, DO schools offers so much. A DO school will give you residency possibilites in not only DO residencies but MD as well. A good DO school, such as PCOM, is also well respected and could be considered as going to a MD school in terms of reputation. Even some newer DO schools are awesome (eg. LMU looks as if they got a good bunch of dedicated students). There are some to stay away from but go visit the osteopatic board to get that list 😉.

Yes, you gotta take 2 boards and spend time learning OMM, but that should not be a big deal. Also there is a chance you can still be close to your family.

Getting an MD beside your name should not be a big deal. It's the quality of education you should go after. Even though Carb could be a good option, why go overseas when there are as good medical schools at home?

Edit: Do degrees can be also cheaper to get....another consideration I am sure...but dont base your decision on this.

Mostly right on but a couple o' comments. In general, the priorities would be MD > DO > FMG. USMLE pass rates from a few years ago bear this out.

The exception is if you prefer the osteopathic training and philosophy and emphasis on primary care, a topic debated ad nauseum elsewhere in this website.

Only go Caribbean if you lack the grades/MCAT to enter a U.S. MD or DO school, or you want the Latino-Asian-African diversity. E.g., a classmate of mine from Sri Lanka chose SGU because she needs an M.D. to practice back home, SGU is good enough and she likes the cultural diversity of the student body. 29 mcat and ~3.3 GPA would get her into a D.O. program but the degree is not universally recognized abroad.

Regarding quality of D.O. schools--there appears to be no particular top 5 or bottom 5. They all teach good medicine, just as all allopathic schools do. They mostly do little research and none are associated with Ivy League universities so there are no Harvards, Yales, or Johns Hopkins among the osteopathic schools, but they all turn out competent primary care physicians. As for cost, they are mostly in the same ballpark with private allopathic schools, and some are very expensive, e.g. West Virginia SOM for out of staters.

Good luck!
 
My intention is to be fair. In terms of priority, the ranking, MD>DO>FMG is sufficient, but just to make it clear to everyone, the ranking is not in terms of intelligence. I have met many FMGs that make our medical graduates here in the U.S. look real stupid. Vice Versa. Why would FMGs be given residencies, if FMGs are not competent?

A MD is a MD. A FMG MD who seeks residency here in the U.S. is limited in terms of going to "specialities". It is not based on intelligence. It is primarily based on him or her being a "FMG." That is true. In terms of U.S. primary care, family practice, pediatrics, OB-GYN, psychiatry, a FMG/IMG MD can secure these residencies based on his or her educational and clinical background. These are the "general", easier residencies to get into due to one, that the demand is high for these positions.

Yes, not all Caribbean schools are the same. If one, a U.S. citizen that is, wishes to go to the Caribbeans as a last resort or an "emergency", then the biggest factors to consider would be:

-Pass Rate of USMLE examinations
-Licensure to practice in all 50 U.S. states
-Obtaining U.S. residencies


St. George in my opinion is the best of the "Top 4" Caribbean Medical schools because this is what they state:

St. George's University has a 5-year average pass rate of 90% for first-time USMLE Step 1 examinees, far exceeding the 62% average pass rate of all non-US schools during the same period.

99% of eligible US graduates who applied obtained ACGME-approved residency positions in 652 hospitals throughout 50 states (from reported alumni information). Our international graduates obtain postgraduate training in the United States, the United Kingdom, or in their home countries.

http://www.sgu.edu/website/sguwebsite.nsf/Home/faqs.htm


If you are passionate about becoming an MD, then you will become an MD somewhere.
 
Mostly right on but a couple o' comments. In general, the priorities would be MD > DO > FMG. USMLE pass rates from a few years ago bear this out.

The exception is if you prefer the osteopathic training and philosophy and emphasis on primary care, a topic debated ad nauseum elsewhere in this website.

Only go Caribbean if you lack the grades/MCAT to enter a U.S. MD or DO school, or you want the Latino-Asian-African diversity. E.g., a classmate of mine from Sri Lanka chose SGU because she needs an M.D. to practice back home, SGU is good enough and she likes the cultural diversity of the student body. 29 mcat and ~3.3 GPA would get her into a D.O. program but the degree is not universally recognized abroad.

Regarding quality of D.O. schools--there appears to be no particular top 5 or bottom 5. They all teach good medicine, just as all allopathic schools do. They mostly do little research and none are associated with Ivy League universities so there are no Harvards, Yales, or Johns Hopkins among the osteopathic schools, but they all turn out competent primary care physicians. As for cost, they are mostly in the same ballpark with private allopathic schools, and some are very expensive, e.g. West Virginia SOM for out of staters.

Good luck!

Correction: They turn out competent physicians. (Of all specialties!)
 
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