Does anyone know students who have been accepted to St. George, or Ross Med Schools with taking some of their science prerequisites online and at a junior college?
Does anyone know students who have been accepted to St. George, or Ross Med Schools with taking some of their science prerequisites online and at a junior college?
A quick search of this forum will show you many, many reasons why this is a terrible idea. Any positive/success stories are usually rare and accomplished after an ungodly amount of hard work.
I was accepted at St. George, and know the island very well. You can take pre-requisites there, but...American students seem to find the organization of classes very hard to assimilate to. In addition, SGU is shifting to make a lot of their undergrad classes PBL (yuck)! Hopefully they don’t offer this for their online portion. What’s your end goal in all of this? Are you looking to matriculate to SGU Med? Or are you looking to take pre-med classes at SGU, and then apply to the US (I sincerely hope not)?Does anyone know students who have been accepted to St. George, or Ross Med Schools with taking some of their science prerequisites online and at a junior college?
Medicine is a study of population statistics. Yet, people still like to parade their anecdotes.
So...
On a population basis, at least with regards to the established and credible schools, your statement is wrong. The odds are that a matriculant will succeed at these schools, beyond a coin toss, and end up in primary care. That is meted out by decades of data.
Anecdotes? There are always horror and success stories... that ultimately prove nothing. In the end, statistics speak to the group, but individual stories seem to somehow provide more meaning to people. Why? I don’t know. But, they seem to.
As such, your statements don’t actually elucidate and inform to the experience of the majority who go this route. So, the next inclination is to talk about individual horror stories. How about a success story? Myself, I’m tracking to make $470k this year.
How does that factor into your warning? Am I the rare exception? I don’t think so. Just another story/anecdote/individual who succeeded going the Caribbean route in spite of admonitions from people like yourself. My post is as valid as yours, and the data are furthermore not on your side.
Everyone else? Do your own homework. And... Caveat emptor.
-Skip
Medicine is a study of population statistics. Yet, people still like to parade their anecdotes.
So...
On a population basis, at least with regards to the established and credible schools, your statement is wrong. The odds are that a matriculant will succeed at these schools, beyond a coin toss, and end up in primary care. That is meted out by decades of data.
Anecdotes? There are always horror and success stories... that ultimately prove nothing. In the end, statistics speak to the group, but individual stories seem to somehow provide more meaning to people. Why? I don’t know. But, they seem to.
As such, your statements don’t actually elucidate and inform to the experience of the majority who go this route. So, the next inclination is to talk about individual horror stories. How about a success story? Myself, I’m tracking to make $470k this year.
How does that factor into your warning? Am I the rare exception? I don’t think so. Just another story/anecdote/individual who succeeded going the Caribbean route in spite of admonitions from people like yourself. My post is as valid as yours, and the data are furthermore not on your side.
Everyone else? Do your own homework. And... Caveat emptor.
-Skip
Let's be honest: many of the people who are interested in going to Caribbean medical school are impulsive, naïve, and lacking in critical thinking skills, so telling them to "do their homework" isn't doing them any favors. Tell them to boost their stats and try for DO, or to choose a different career altogether. Going to the Caribbean simply isn't worth it, especially since new schools are constantly opening up across the US.
I'm glad it worked out for you, but contrary to you touting your "470K" salary and your success story (defensive much?), there is more than ample amount of evidence not based on just SDN about the trap of Caribbean medical schools. I feel it is justified to let prospective candidates know the risks so they can themselves make an informed decision. It's difficult to get a true idea of the attrition rates and match rates because SGU and any other carib med school can try and spin the data in their favor to attract applicants, but anecdotally, residency match rates for a place like SGU are around 40-50% pre-SOAP and maybe up to ~60% afterwards, which is abysmal compared to US DO and MD schools which are generally somewhere in the mid to upper 90s and if you don't match, have fun getting out of that mountain of debt. Federal student aid also works differently, if at all, and the school's eligibility can be revoked at any time if they don't meet US standards.
In short, for the OP, and any others considering the Caribbean...do your own thorough research before deciding. This is not something to take lightly.
You are almost completely factually wrong in this post. Doing your own homework should involve avoiding and ignoring garbage, throw-away posts like this one.
Which factual claims in that post are incorrect? Please be specific and offer evidence.
You are almost completely factually wrong in this post. Doing your own homework should involve avoiding and ignoring garbage, throw-away posts like this one.
-Skip
P.S. I might make more than $470K this year. Who knows? We have a new neurosurgical team at our hospital that is bringing a lot of new business here. I work hard for every penny I make. The stakes are high; so should be the reward. That's not being defensive. That's simply the truth. None of this would have happened if I'd listened to the naysayers and said "no" 17 years ago because I believed your type of ginned-up assertions and fear-mongering disguised as "trying to help".
I wasn't addressing you. And, I don't take orders from you either. For the record.
Also for the record, "Dr.Elliott" quoted the match rates for SGU. My position is that she completely made that up. Nonetheless, she made the assertion. She can back them up. If she wants to. It's not my job to go on a fools errand to prove (or disprove) her point. It's hers. That's how this works.
-Skip
This is most certainly from "doing my own homework". I considered going to med school at SGU (interviewed and was accepted) after not receiving any US acceptances the first time I applied to medical school and was freaking out, naive and compulsive because of it. Luckily, after doing my own research, decided against it and am 110% glad I did not end up going to the Caribbean. We all work hard, no one said you didn't. In all honesty, based on your attitude alone I wouldn't listen to you no matter how potentially "right" you could be. You are clearly defensive, but hey, deny it all you want. I have nothing else to say because there's no sense in.
.... but anecdotally, residency match rates for a place like SGU are around 40-50% pre-SOAP and maybe up to ~60% afterwards, which is abysmal ...
Like i said, the information is anectodal which is not the best or most reliable, but it's what's out there given, and i'll quote Osminog "Caribbean schools are known for their lack of transparency and their manipulation of data". I do not feel the need to post sources that are quite easily found by doing a google search. My job is also not to prove you wrong. I have my opinions and thoughts and you clearly have yours.
and you, a self proclaimed "caribpro" who added absolutely nothing to the conversationTo our left: Some random person who has never been to a Carib school (and likely never to the Caribbean at all)
To our right: a middle aged man who graduated from Ross 10+ years ago
2 completely useless "sources" of info on the Caribbean having a pissing contest in an anonymous forum.![]()
My position is that she completely made that up.
They can't manipulate the Match data.
Some real questions for EVERYBODY posting on the Caribbean forum...
Do your homework. It's all out there. And, has been posted and discussed on this forum for the past several years, Johnny-Come-Lately's.
Your posts contain made-up data you whipped out of your noggin' and based only on your belief, not reality. They are not instructive. They should be ignored.
-Skip
SGU total four-year MD student population: View attachment 237805
For the sake of approximation: 5,536/4 = ~1400 four-year MD students per class
SGU total US residency placements by year:
View attachment 237808
Let's use the average... ~900. Let's also add on the ~10 people who match into spots outside of the USA:
910/1400 = 65% student success rate.
Note that this figure is almost certainly inflated because (1) the match # includes students in the >4-year program that SGU offers, who aren't included in the total enrollment number I used, and (2) the current enrollment figure I used doesn't include those who would be in MS2-4 but who dropped/flunked out; SGU doesn't publicize its attrition rate.
So if we're being overly generous, over one-third of the students who enroll the best Caribbean medical school don't end up entering a residency program.
Here's the reality, Skip: The outcomes at SGU are absolutely abysmal -- so abysmal that SGU would be shut down in a matter of days if it were running inside the United States. Given what you now know about SGU, you can start to imagine the sort of outcomes you'd find at the "lesser" Caribbean schools.
Are we talking “attrition”? Or are we talking “Match rates”?
You and “Dr.Elliott” need to agree on your terminology and what you’re hyperventilating about first before we can continue. Because, you’re not talking about the same things.
If you’re talking about attrition, first off you are making a lot of assumptions about enrollment. But, yes, overall attrition rates are higher at the Caribbean schools. I challenge you to go back over my nearly 16 year posting history - including this very post - where I’ve ever said otherwise. Again, most drop outs/fail outs/quitters happen early in the program.
If you’re instead talking about Match rates, which are the students who have made it past Step I and are eligible through the school to enter the Match, you’re just wrong. Again, the Match data don’t lie.
You two need to get your arguments straight.
No, we don't. Again, my post stands on its own terms.
I'm comparing the number of people who enroll at SGU to the number of people who ultimately end up matching. Call that whatever you want. <snip> You can't just accept the match rate statistic at face value without considering the fact that one-third of students never make it to the match in the first place.
If you were to (wrongfully) insinuate that 1/3 of students were allowed to make it to graduation and then not get into residency, you may have a point. Likewise, if the majority of students were racked with $300k+ of debt and nothing to show for it, you’d have a stronger position for your outrage.
This isn’t what routinely happens.
The majority of students who enroll will end up with a degree and in residency. The majority of those who don’t make it wash out early in the program, often well before they’ve amassed a lot of school debt. That’s the reality. As I said above, any potential student should know this going in. You can’t “fake” or “sweet talk” your way into a medical degree. The only fault of the school in that regard is giving the bull****ers a chance in the first place. It’s a hardcore weeding-out process that occurs after you get your spot. If you can’t do the work, don’t take the seat. In other words, don’t bull*** yourself.
And, I’ve been saying that for well over a decade.
-Skip
you never ask people for their stats; you never recommend people delay a year and then apply DO; you never suggest the option of podiatry school; etc.
But please don't be the guy who jumps down the Niagara Falls in a barrel, miraculously survives, and then tells others that they can pull it off too. I'm not sure if you say the things you say out of ignorance or out of sheer maliciousness, but you're not doing anybody any favors. Your posts fuel the naivety and overconfidence of desperate, confused people.
What I take serious issue with is your approach: you never ask people for their stats; you never recommend people delay a year and then apply DO; you never suggest the option of podiatry school; etc.
If you're thinking about going to the Caribbean for medical school, I highly suggest you re-consider. A quick search of this forum will show you many, many reasons why this is a terrible idea. Any positive/success stories are usually rare and accomplished after an ungodly amount of hard work.
I will admit to being biased, but I honestly feel like these institutions should not exist, they take your money and give you false hope. If becoming a doctor is a strong desire for you, I would urge you to take a look at what you can do in an extra year or 2 to make your application better and apply to both US MD and DO schools. My two cents FWIW.