Carribean Medical Schools and Residencies

[Lisa D]

Hey there,

I am trying to figure out if going to a Carribean Medical School (SABA Medical University in particular) is the best option for me. So far, everything checks out! I just need to know if anyone has had trouble finding a residency in the U.S. after going to a Carribean Medical School; this is really my only other concern in this matter.

I'm new to the idea of Carribean Med School so if anyone has had trouble or great success with them in the past I'd love to read about it. All opinions are appreciated!

Lisa D

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[Aphtalyfe]

Hey there,

I am trying to figure out if going to a Carribean Medical School (SABA Medical University in particular) is the best option for me. So far, everything checks out! I just need to know if anyone has had trouble finding a residency in the U.S. after going to a Carribean Medical School; this is really my only other concern in this matter.

I'm new to the idea of Carribean Med School so if anyone has had trouble or great success with them in the past I'd love to read about it. All opinions are appreciated!

Lisa D

Concerns you should have when going to the Caribbean for med school (big 4):

1) Finishing. Fairly high dropout rate with large proportions of each class deceling.

2) Step 1. Pass rates are usually about the same as US schools except... only people that pass the internal exam can take the step.

3) Matching. Match rate for US grads is over 95%. Match rate for the big 4 is usually under 90%. (including prematch and scramble)

4) Specialty. Most Caribbean grads will go into primary care. This is because most residency program directors will pick a US grad over a IMG. This is especially true for the more competitive specialities.


So to answer your question... there will be some people who have trouble matching. Especially those trying to match into something competitive.

 

[Lisa D]

Concerns you should have when going to the Caribbean for med school (big 4):

1) Finishing. Fairly high dropout rate with large proportions of each class deceling.

2) Step 1. Pass rates are usually about the same as US schools except... only people that pass the internal exam can take the step.

3) Matching. Match rate for US grads is over 95%. Match rate for the big 4 is usually under 90%. (including prematch and scramble)

4) Specialty. Most Caribbean grads will go into primary care. This is because most residency program directors will pick a US grad over a IMG. This is especially true for the more competitive specialities.


So to answer your question... there will be some people who have trouble matching. Especially those trying to match into something competitive.

Thanks for responding, that's what I've been reading in these threads recently...
My concern came about when a woman told me that the reason she had so much trouble matching a dermatology residency (which she said is very competative) is because she went to ROSS in the Caribbean. But, after speaking for over an hour I was disgusted by her. She was one of the rudest people I'd ever met. I could not help but think maybe THATS why no one wants to give you a residency...
Speaking of competative residencies, how competative is it to find a residency to become a fertility specialist, ob/gyn?
Also, what would you recommend to someone in regards to Caribbean medical schools if their interests in the medical feild are broad. I personally feel that I would never feel as though I was "settling" for a residency as I've read most Carib. grads have had to do (please correct me if I'm wrong) because I am interested in so many areas of medicine and specialties.
If passing and scoring well on the step exams were not an issue, how likely or unlikely is it for that carib. grad. to succeed in the US?
I am highly considering SABA medical univ (one of the "big 4")
I hope someone can answer all of my questions. Please, any and all opinions are needed and appreciated!

 

[LEVAMISOLE]

Thanks for responding, that's what I've been reading in these threads recently...
My concern came about when a woman told me that the reason she had so much trouble matching a dermatology residency (which she said is very competative) is because she went to ROSS in the Caribbean. But, after speaking for over an hour I was disgusted by her. She was one of the rudest people I'd ever met. I could not help but think maybe THATS why no one wants to give you a residency...
Speaking of competative residencies, how competative is it to find a residency to become a fertility specialist, ob/gyn?
Also, what would you recommend to someone in regards to Caribbean medical schools if their interests in the medical feild are broad. I personally feel that I would never feel as though I was "settling" for a residency as I've read most Carib. grads have had to do (please correct me if I'm wrong) because I am interested in so many areas of medicine and specialties.
If passing and scoring well on the step exams were not an issue, how likely or unlikely is it for that carib. grad. to succeed in the US?
I am highly considering SABA medical univ (one of the "big 4")
I hope someone can answer all of my questions. Please, any and all opinions are needed and appreciated!

I'm a Saba grad and got residency. 1st off you arent going get Derm, Id take that bet any day of the week and win. 2nd you will be lucky to get OB, id also take that bet. Hell you will be lucky to finish and get anything even a prelim surg like I did. Of my starting class very few made it. The rest either dropped out, failed out, couldnt pass the boards or just didnt match because scores and their record sucked. Saba doesnt want you to know how many actually make it. They show the step 1 stats and the match list which is crap because they have multiple matches for the same person, like if you matched into prelim surg then going to PM&R. They count that 2x! This last match class composed of 3 classes and a lot of people I have never seen in my whole time with Saba. I spoke with a guy at graduation would took 3 years to match because he had to boost his record with research. Now that being said Im grateful that Saba gave me a chance and I'm a doctor so you can do it but you have to work hard and stay focused. Is this match success rate normal for the Big 4, yes.

 

[Lisa D]

I'm a Saba grad and got residency. 1st off you arent going get Derm, Id take that bet any day of the week and win. 2nd you will be lucky to get OB, id also take that bet. Hell you will be lucky to finish and get anything even a prelim surg like I did. Of my starting class very few made it. The rest either dropped out, failed out, couldnt pass the boards or just didnt match because scores and their record sucked. Saba doesnt want you to know how many actually make it. They show the step 1 stats and the match list which is crap because they have multiple matches for the same person, like if you matched into prelim surg then going to PM&R. They count that 2x! This last match class composed of 3 classes and a lot of people I have never seen in my whole time with Saba. I spoke with a guy at graduation would took 3 years to match because he had to boost his record with research. Now that being said Im grateful that Saba gave me a chance and I'm a doctor so you can do it but you have to work hard and stay focused. Is this match success rate normal for the Big 4, yes.

Hey there, you are one of the first from the actual university to respond so thank you for that. I want to know if it's ignorant to think that my chances of success are greater for the following reasons:
1. I want to go for financial reasons and time factors, not low grades.
2. My interests in the medical feild are broad so any residency that will eventually allow me to open my own practice will make me happy.
3. I am not stuck in one state of the US; I will look for residencies in any state with only a few exceptions of course.
4. My plan after residency is to open my own practice. I imagine that at this point, I will no longer be haunted by the stigma associated with Caribbean Medical Schools because I will not be applying to hospitals and competing anymore.

Please point out any and all flaws in my plan, I am young and understand there is still plenty out there for me to learn.

Oh, and when I say "time factors" I mean that I would be more content settling into my life as it should be at a younger age. As a woman, I worry about the age at which I will be in a place to start a family. This is almost as important to me as becoming a doctor. Saba's program seems to have the potential of shaving about 3 years for me at this point though it is more condensed and very difficult.

 

[LEVAMISOLE]

Hey there, you are one of the first from the actual university to respond so thank you for that. I want to know if it's ignorant to think that my chances of success are greater for the following reasons:
1. I want to go for financial reasons and time factors, not low grades.
2. My interests in the medical feild are broad so any residency that will eventually allow me to open my own practice will make me happy.
3. I am not stuck in one state of the US; I will look for residencies in any state with only a few exceptions of course.
4. My plan after residency is to open my own practice. I imagine that at this point, I will no longer be haunted by the stigma associated with Caribbean Medical Schools because I will not be applying to hospitals and competing anymore.

Please point out any and all flaws in my plan, I am young and understand there is still plenty out there for me to learn.

Oh, and when I say "time factors" I mean that I would be more content settling into my life as it should be at a younger age. As a woman, I worry about the age at which I will be in a place to start a family. This is almost as important to me as becoming a doctor. Saba's program seems to have the potential of shaving about 3 years for me at this point though it is more condensed and very difficult.

#1 You shouldnt go to Saba because of money.. Id go to a state school even if I had to pay 3X more. Coming from the carb you gonna have a more difficult time landing the residency of your choosing just because of the stigma. That being said, Saba is dirt cheap compared to others and I owe 1/4 what others do.

So...My advice is exhaust all attempts at staying in the US or Canada even DO schools. THEN consider the top 4 carb schools only. THEN pick from there. I would choose SGU>AUC>SABA>Ross. Reason why Ross is lower than Saba is they are too large and Ive heard of horror stories coming out of there. I woulda went to SGU over Saba but I didnt get accepted my Mcat was below 23. They have better clinicals and a ton of grads out there that can help when it comes to residency.

 

[Lisa D]

#1 You shouldnt go to Saba because of money.. Id go to a state school even if I had to pay 3X more. Coming from the carb you gonna have a more difficult time landing the residency of your choosing just because of the stigma. That being said, Saba is dirt cheap compared to others and I owe 1/4 what others do.

So...My advice is exhaust all attempts at staying in the US or Canada even DO schools. THEN consider the top 4 carb schools only. THEN pick from there. I would choose SGU>AUC>SABA>Ross. Reason why Ross is lower than Saba is they are too large and Ive heard of horror stories coming out of there. I woulda went to SGU over Saba but I didnt get accepted my Mcat was below 23. They have better clinicals and a ton of grads out there that can help when it comes to residency.

Thank you for your advice, you're a great help! May I ask what residency you have obtained?

 

[DrCaboVerde]

My cousin's wife is an SGU grad, who had no troubles matching for a residency in Mich, and then getting a fellowship in Conn...however, she was the TOP of her class coming out of SGU...I guess my point is that if you put in the work, you will see results...

 

[Javad]

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[Javad]

Concerns you should have when going to the Caribbean for med school (big 4):

1) Finishing. Fairly high dropout rate with large proportions of each class deceling.

2) Step 1. Pass rates are usually about the same as US schools except... only people that pass the internal exam can take the step.

3) Matching. Match rate for US grads is over 95%. Match rate for the big 4 is usually under 90%. (including prematch and scramble)

4) Specialty. Most Caribbean grads will go into primary care. This is because most residency program directors will pick a US grad over a IMG. This is especially true for the more competitive specialities.


So to answer your question... there will be some people who have trouble matching. Especially those trying to match into something competitive.

There seems to be a myth out here on the internet that there is somehow a "Big Four" and SGU is part of that Big Four. If we look at this chart on the SGU website, it seems pretty clear that there is no big four. That SGU is in a class by itself. Please Read the following information in this Link:

http://www.sgu.edu/pdf/sgu-facts-are-clear.pdf

 

[dragonfly99]

Lisa,
I would be very wary of going to any Caribbean school.
I would apply at least once to US MD or DO schools, and probably twice, before I would even consider any Caribbean school. I would only go to St George U, or perhaps SABA, if I was going to go (probably only SGU). However, if you can get into SGU you can probably find yourself a US DO spot.

Don't run to the Caribbean because you are worried about marriage and child bearing issues. There are a lot of US med students and residents who have a baby @some point during training. It's not super easy, but it's possible to do, especially if there is good family support nearby (such as parents or in-laws). Going to the Caribbean could shoot you in the foot because you may not get a residency at all, or you might have to spend 1-2 years doing research or something just to boost your resume at the end to get any kind of residency.

OB/Gyn is fairly hard to get just because there aren't that many spots. It wouldn't be hard to get coming from a US school. derm you will not get coming from the Caribbean.

p.s. Opening up your own practice is very hard these days, especially if you want to be solo. It costs a lot of money from what I hear, and the insurance company billing is very complicated so that it may be hard to stay afloat as a solo or 2 doc practice (because of the cost of running your practice). Most people are employed by hospitals or part of large practice groups with many doctors. I think if there is more downward pressure on insurance company reimbursements in the next few years (likely, due to gov't trying to decrease health care costs) it may get even hard to have a solo or small group practice. I have seen some docs in derm and endocrine, allergists, etc. who still do this, but it's kind of rare now.

 

[Aphtalyfe]

There seems to be a myth out here on the internet that there is somehow a "Big Four" and SGU is part of that Big Four. If we look at this chart on the SGU website, it seems pretty clear that there is no big four. That SGU is in a class by itself. Please Read the following information in this Link:

http://www.sgu.edu/pdf/sgu-facts-are-clear.pdf

lol, very clever marketing.

SGU and Ross were grandfathered into being able to do clinicals in NJ. AUC and Saba can do rotations in the other 3 that SGU subtly grouped into 1 category.

CAAM-HP is the accrediting body for Grenada, Dominca and a few other Caribbean island schools... however St. Maarten (the island AUC is on) does not fall under that umbrella. It would be like saying oh well Harvard isn't accredited by CAAM-HP either... so SGU must be better than Harvard. Harvard is accredited by a different agency because of where they are. Same as AUC. http://www.accredmed.org/

The reason SGU and Ross have more graduates practicing in the US than other schools is because SGU and Ross graduate like 2-3x more students than AUC. SGU has more graduates than UCF... I guess people should go to SGU over UCF?

Grenada the ISLAND has the highest Step 1 pass rate. The statistics that the report drew from was for each ISLAND. Not for each school. There are several schools grouped with AUC and this brings down the average. AUC current 1st time pass rate is >94%.
Same for Step 2.

Highest ECFMG certification is again just a clever way of marketing the fact that SGU has huge classes, which is considered a detriment to most students.

Most campus based faculty... again... you need more faculty if you have more students. It doesn't say faculty:student ratio which would be a good thing.

Highest GPA and MCAT. Ok I'll give you that one. 3.4/27 vs 3.23/25

Full University... who cares? Who wants to get a undergraduate degree from a Caribbean school? People already look down on MDs from the Caribbean.

Largest and most prestigious. Largest yes... because they have the most students... but prestigious? If you look at their "reference" for that statement... it says "Just ask anyone who has been to all four campuses." I have asked people who have been to all 4 and they disagree.

 

[millepora]

I'm a Saba grad and got residency. 1st off you arent going get Derm, Id take that bet any day of the week and win. 2nd you will be lucky to get OB, id also take that bet. Hell you will be lucky to finish and get anything even a prelim surg like I did. Of my starting class very few made it. The rest either dropped out, failed out, couldnt pass the boards or just didnt match because scores and their record sucked. Saba doesnt want you to know how many actually make it. They show the step 1 stats and the match list which is crap because they have multiple matches for the same person, like if you matched into prelim surg then going to PM&R. They count that 2x! This last match class composed of 3 classes and a lot of people I have never seen in my whole time with Saba. I spoke with a guy at graduation would took 3 years to match because he had to boost his record with research. Now that being said Im grateful that Saba gave me a chance and I'm a doctor so you can do it but you have to work hard and stay focused. Is this match success rate normal for the Big 4, yes.

Awesome post, very informative. Thanks for sharing!

I guess that explains why there are no names on these match lists...lol

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=9675454#post9675454

 

[aa62]

Originally Posted by Javad
There seems to be a myth out here on the internet that there is somehow a "Big Four" and SGU is part of that Big Four. If we look at this chart on the SGU website, it seems pretty clear that there is no big four. That SGU is in a class by itself. Please Read the following information in this Link:

http://www.sgu.edu/pdf/sgu-facts-are-clear.pdf

nice plug .
honestly, among the big four, no one school has a distinct advantage over the another when it comes to residency. It all comes down to the student.