carribean vs. foreign school

[san2]

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http://medicine.tau.ac.il/english/index.php/ny/whysackler/residency-match-by-specialty-class-of-2011

 

[VisionaryTics]

this was the sackler match list for 2011 for sackler. seems comparable to yours visionary tics

Good list. Shame your nephew isn't applying there.

 

[Ravizzle]

I personally know a student with the same MCAT, and had a GPA similiar to his (actually higher to a 3.3), did a masters program at VCU and did not get into any allopathic schools. He moved himself down to the carrib when he was tired of it

I have 3.3, 33 mcat and applying this cycle (MD and DO). every person is more than just numbers, ECs and other things matter too. Obviously I'm at the lower end of the totem pole and it's an uphill battle compared to my better qualified peers, but by no means is it impossible. Apply broadly to lower and mid tier schools and maybe you get in.

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[OCDOCDOCD]

We're Jewish and have extensive ties to Israel. Tel Aviv is a great city with a great culture and a very high standard of living. And potential president, Mitt Romney, just on his recent trip applauded the Israeli healthcare system.

And now, even I know going to a US allopathic schools is better. But where did we actually come to that conclusion. Its because of the negative stigma against carribean grads. But put your yourself in the shoes of a residency PD. You see an Jewish American citizen, went to a good undergrad, majored in Chemical Engineering and Philosophy, went to BGU in collaboration with Columbia, know that its a competitive school to get into and admissions is much more competitive than any carrib school and prob more or equal to DO schools, does well there, gets good letters from Columbia faculty, and has a good step 1 score. Then why would a residency PD not take him? especially in IM programs where it is FMG dominated, or Carrib dominted.

And I think he is going in with a determination to do really well both in class and step 1, so thats why I cannot see him struggling to get a position despite all these forecasters saying residency slots will go to american grads, since they are not increasing residency slots but increasing US med school seats. if it becomes ever an issue, they will increase the residency slots. FMG's are a vital part to the US healthcare, especially those from other countries who bring medical expertise that they have learned in their home country. Yes carrib schools are different and horrible. But I think SDN fails to differentiate between carribean and a true international medical school, but I think residency PD's do differentiate

Let me spell this out for you: no one gives a **** about what your nephew did before medical school. Once he matriculates into medical school, his entire undergrad career (including his MCAT score) may as well have never happened. Claiming that residencies will care about what his major was or what undergrad school he went to is no different than claiming that medical schools will care what his SAT scores were or what high school he went to.

Furthermore, competitiveness is only a partial factor in the perceived quality and prestige of a school. The fact of the matter is that even the worst US med school is still viewed to be of higher quality and prestige than a foreign medical school. Again, going back to what I said in the first paragraph, no one is going to care how good of a student your nephew was when he applied to medical schools. They only care about how good a doctor he is when he graduates, and as far as US residencies are concerned the answer for most IMGs is "not very".

Finally, no, residency spots may not increase just to accommodate FMGs. You're kidding yourself when you say that this country views foreign doctors as important. The exact opposite is true. It's actually very common for foreign doctors to come to the US and find out that they can't work as a doctor in the US. For example, I've known a guy who was a practicing physician in India but could only find work as a taxi cab driver in the US. This story isn't uncommon either, a lot of students at my university whose parents were immigrants told the same story.

 

[san2]

Let me spell this out for you: no one gives a **** about what your nephew did before medical school. Once he matriculates into medical school, his entire undergrad career (including his MCAT score) may as well have never happened. Claiming that residencies will care about what his major was or what undergrad school he went to is no different than claiming that medical schools will care what his SAT scores were or what high school he went to.

Furthermore, competitiveness is only a partial factor in the perceived quality and prestige of a school. The fact of the matter is that even the worst US med school is still viewed to be of higher quality and prestige than a foreign medical school. Again, going back to what I said in the first paragraph, no one is going to care how good of a student your nephew was when he applied to medical schools. They only care about how good a doctor he is when he graduates, and as far as US residencies are concerned the answer for most IMGs is "not very".

Finally, no, residency spots may not increase just to accommodate FMGs. You're kidding yourself when you say that this country views foreign doctors as important. The exact opposite is true. It's actually very common for foreign doctors to come to the US and find out that they can't work as a doctor in the US. For example, I've known a guy who was a practicing physician in India but could only find work as a taxi cab driver in the US. This story isn't uncommon either, a lot of students at my university whose parents were immigrants told the same story.

those who work as a taxi driver, is because they cant pass step 1 and have given up. and this is older generations when they didnt have internet or kaplan and now they are too far removed from step 1 basic sciences and its hopeless. things have changed now, especially in Israel, where students have a very high pass rate for step 1

 

[OCDOCDOCD]

those who work as a taxi driver, is because they cant pass step 1 and have given up.

Go back and re-read that. I said "practicing physician", not "med school graduate". We're talking about people who not only got their degrees, but their training as well, and who had already been working as full fledged physicians before they came to this country. They're way past step 1.

The only reason IMGs even get residency slots right now is because there's still enough slots left over each year after the US grads have all gotten their picks. At that point the IMGs get to fight over the table scraps. Once those new medical schools open up though that's no longer going to be the case, and no, the US does not care about training foreign doctors when we don't even want to hire doctors that have already been trained in other countries.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

We're Jewish and have extensive ties to Israel. Tel Aviv is a great city with a great culture and a very high standard of living. And potential president, Mitt Romney, just on his recent trip applauded the Israeli healthcare system.

And now, even I know going to a US allopathic schools is better. But where did we actually come to that conclusion. Its because of the negative stigma against carribean grads. But put your yourself in the shoes of a residency PD. You see an Jewish American citizen, went to a good undergrad, majored in Chemical Engineering and Philosophy, went to BGU in collaboration with Columbia, know that its a competitive school to get into and admissions is much more competitive than any carrib school and prob more or equal to DO schools, does well there, gets good letters from Columbia faculty, and has a good step 1 score. Then why would a residency PD not take him? especially in IM programs where it is FMG dominated, or Carrib dominted.

And I think he is going in with a determination to do really well both in class and step 1, so thats why I cannot see him struggling to get a position despite all these forecasters saying residency slots will go to american grads, since they are not increasing residency slots but increasing US med school seats. if it becomes ever an issue, they will increase the residency slots. FMG's are a vital part to the US healthcare, especially those from other countries who bring medical expertise that they have learned in their home country. Yes carrib schools are different and horrible. But I think SDN fails to differentiate between carribean and a true international medical school, but I think residency PD's do differentiate

Yeah my question was completely honest, I didn't know whether you had ties to Israel or not. If he does want to possibly practice in Israel then BGU might give him some in's there that he'll want. You seem pretty set on BGU anyway so I doubt anyone is gonna change your mind.

Anyway, in your last paragraph you seem a little misguided. They are increasing US medical schools seats. They are not increasing residency slots and to think that somehow Medicare is going to increase funding for more residency spots when we think they "need" to is not correct at all. In fact, during the most recent budget discussions there were ideas floated to CUT residency funding. We're not going to see an increase in residency spots anytime soon and you can bet that the more US med students we graduate, the more IMG/FMGs are going to get pushed out of spots. There's just no reason to take them if we have enough US graduates.

I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that FMGs are "vital" to US healthcare. An intern from a foreign medical school doesn't have anymore expertise than any other intern.

 

[Law2Doc]

I personally know a student with the same MCAT, and had a GPA similiar to his (actually higher to a 3.3), did a masters program at VCU and did not get into any allopathic schools. He moved himself down to the carrib when he was tired of it

There are no guarantees in life and there are folks who screw up their chances at various points along the way. That doesn't mean trying the masters was the wrong move. In fact you could argue that his worst case scenario still put him where he otherwise would have been without the masters, so there was really only upside to at least trying.

Bottom line is that many many residencies and most of the competitive fields won't even look at foreign educated folks. The masters gives you a shot to keep all these doors open. And that's assuming you get a residency at all going this route -- it gets worse for IZmGs each year, and the increases in US med students, lack of prematch and implementation of SOAP are going to hit the foreign grads hard.

 

[san2]

Go back and re-read that. I said "practicing physician", not "med school graduate". We're talking about people who not only got their degrees, but their training as well, and who had already been working as full fledged physicians before they came to this country. They're way past step 1.

The only reason IMGs even get residency slots right now is because there's still enough slots left over each year after the US grads have all gotten their picks. At that point the IMGs get to fight over the table scraps. Once those new medical schools open up though that's no longer going to be the case, and no, the US does not care about training foreign doctors when we don't even want to hire doctors that have already been trained in other countries.

exactly. when you start practicing, how are you gonna remember the tiny enzymes in biochemical pathways that step 1 asks. and a lot of them are in their mid 50s. to go back and study basic sciences for step 1 is hopeless for these poor folks

 

[Law2Doc]

exactly. when you start practicing, how are you gonna remember the tiny enzymes in biochemical pathways that step 1 asks. and a lot of them are in their mid 50s. to go back and study basic sciences for step 1 is hopeless for these poor folks

Hate to break it to you but foreign grads are passed over in droves regardless of what the Step scores are. If you want to practice in the US your first choice should be to attend med school in the US, even if it takes an extra year. Period. No ifs, ands or buts.

 

[ldiaz29]

We are straying off the question. I encouraged him to go to BGU because of the competitiveness to get in, and it opens doors if ever he wants to practice medicine in Israel. And yes obviously, UIC will have a better match list than BGU, but sometimes students, like my nephew, cant get into allopathic US schools.

My original question again. Is it worth going to SGU over BGU just because SGU has US clinical rotations and BGU does not? SGU MCAT is like a 26 and GPA is like a 3.3. Far less competitive student body than BGU. Also all the faculty hold joint appointments at Columbia Medical Center. He has decided, and Im supporting him, of not going the masters route or the osteopathic route, and now for him to focus on doing well at BGU and doing well on Step 1. I think with these two combinations, I really cannot see him struggling to get a residency in the US. And he is aiming for IM anyways, so thats not to difficult either.

The only thing I want to know is how important is having US rotations, and can several observerships compensate slightly for the damage if it is a big problem?

See this is what I don't understand. You come to these forums with a question on whether or not having US clinical rotations will harm your nephews chances at getting a US residency. Then everyone tells you they are both bad options. You then acknowledge that SGU is a bad choice even though it has US clinical rotations and BGU does not. Who cares about the matriculating class's stats.

I am not a med student yet but I have friends/acquaintances that have gone the Caribbean route and they are struggling now because even to get a so-so competitive residency they have to go above and beyond whats expected from the US med students. As I said I am not a med student yet, but I don't see how it won't hurt your nephews chances if he didn't do rotations in the US (I really have no idea though). It seems like a double negative to me.

(Sorry for the bad grammar I am ESL)

 

[Law2Doc]

See this is what I don't understand. You come to these forums with a question on whether or not having US clinical rotations will harm your nephews chances at getting a US residency. Then everyone tells you they are both bad options. You then acknowledge that SGU is a bad choice even though it has US clinical rotations and BGU does not. Who cares about the matriculating class's stats.

I am not a med student yet but I have friends/acquaintances that have gone the Caribbean route and they are struggling now because even to get a so-so competitive residency they have to go above and beyond whats expected from the US med students. As I said I am not a med student yet, but I don't see how it won't hurt your nephews chances if he didn't do rotations in the US (I really have no idea though). It seems like a double negative to me.

(Sorry for the bad grammar I am ESL)

Again, the OP wants to weigh a negative against a double negative, yet there's a completely viable positive that's inexplicably being rejected.

 

[yellowbird12]

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[Morsetlis]

Tell your nephew to sack up and do the work to get into a US allopathic/osteopathic school. There are very few shortcuts in medicine. Going IMG to "save time" is probably the stupidest decision he can make.

This.

 

[moneytree]

those who work as a taxi driver, is because they cant pass step 1 and have given up. and this is older generations when they didnt have internet or kaplan and now they are too far removed from step 1 basic sciences and its hopeless. things have changed now, especially in Israel, where students have a very high pass rate for step 1

Bro, you obviously get a huge boner from talking about everything Israel, Torahs, and BGU, and you just came here to get some anonymous dudes on the internet to confirm your crappy decision. So... just let your nephew go to BGU. No one really cares.

Come back in 4 years and either tell us we're all ******s because your nephew matched Mayo derm or (more likely) come back and tell us he's doing FM/IM/Peds in northern Montana.

 

[Mokthraka]

Bro, you obviously get a huge boner from talking about everything Israel, Torahs, and BGU, and you just came here to get some anonymous dudes on the internet to confirm your crappy decision. So... just let your nephew go to BGU. No one really cares.

Come back in 4 years and either tell us we're all ******s because your nephew matched Mayo derm or (more likely) come back and tell us he's doing FM/IM/Peds in northern Montana.

everyone makes fun of Peds 🙁

 

[moneytree]

everyone makes fun of Peds 🙁

Less competitive != less important.

Israel bro over there is obviously a prestige ***** though. Talking up the Columbia relationship, chemE, good undergrad, etc. So I'm just saying BGUbro is probably a ROAD or die kind of guy.

 

[LaughingMan]

Yeah OP--kinda pointless to ask for advice and then shoot down everything everyone says and defend your own wishes.

It seems as if you were looking for us to confirm your own ideas you have for your nephew.

Bottom Line--Go to medical school in the country you want to practice in.

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

So your nephew was trying to save money by just applying to a few allopathic schools and is now willing to spends tens of thousands of dollars on tuition for foreign medical schools?

Honestly, he should use his efforts to get into a US medical school. Preferably allopathic but even osteopathic. Going the foreign route can get you into trouble.

Sad but true.

 

[Mosa]

Lol I hope OP knows that approx. 7,000 med school graduates were passed up for residency. I would say most were US medical graduates. What a lost cause for OP. IMO if this nephew cared as much as he should if medicine really is his passion, he would be on this forum asking questions, not this aunt/uncle of his. Yes yes, excuses excuses OP he couldn't be on sdn asking for XYZ reason. I know.

 

[Jamie561]

In the interest of staying on topic, I would say that BGU > SGU for your nephew. However, please do not think that your nephew will sit at the same table as US MD/DOs when it comes to residency applications. Also, do not let BGU's selectiveness or affiliation go to your head. It seems like you're trying to find a preftigiouf school despite your nephew's poor qualifications.

Truly a fool's dilemma.

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[link2swim06]

Its simple. If you want to become a US physician go DO or get the GPA up to apply US allo. Hands down the best two options.

If you want to become an Israel doctor then go to med school/residency over there.


The elephant in the room is IMG are quickly getting pushed out of medicine. While in the past carribean and some foreign schools had decent match list....shortly there will only be enough spots for MD/DO students. Therefore, entering a foreign/carrib school now with the intention of matching isn't sane.


He clearly should just work on getting that GPA up and reapply US allo if he really doesn't want to do DO.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

OP: My nephew is trying to decide between shooting himself in the left foot or in the right foot. Which one would you choose?

SDN: Why doesn't he just not shoot himself in the foot at all?

OP: THAT WASN'T THE QUESTION!



Seriously though, either tell him to apply DO, take a year to bump his numbers/ECs, or do an SMP. There is no shame in waiting another year.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

OP: My nephew is trying to decide between shooting himself in the left foot or in the right foot. Which one would you choose?

SDN: Why doesn't he just not shoot himself in the foot at all?

OP: THAT WASN'T THE QUESTION!



Seriously though, either tell him to apply DO, take a year to bump his numbers/ECs, or do an SMP. There is no shame in waiting another year.

What really kills me about it is that the kid has a very nice MCAT (34). It's not like he has a 2.8 and a 24 MCAT so the Carib is the only way he can go to med school. All the dumb guy needs to do is take a couple more classes to bump his GPA up and he'll be competitive for MDs and a shoe in for a DO.

 

[moneytree]

What really kills me about it is that the kid has a very nice MCAT (34). It's not like he has a 2.8 and a 24 MCAT so the Carib is the only way he can go to med school. All the dumb guy needs to do is take a couple more classes to bump his GPA up and he'll be competitive for MDs and a shoe in for a DO.

BUT ISRAEL BRO!

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[Mokthraka]

​

Less competitive != less important.

Israel bro over there is obviously a prestige ***** though. Talking up the Columbia relationship, chemE, good undergrad, etc. So I'm just saying BGUbro is probably a ROAD or die kind of guy.

any idea how hard it is to get into peds residencies?

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

​

any idea how hard it is to get into peds residencies?

In general? Not very. Peds is one of the less competitive specialties overall meaning you'll likely match somewhere (as a US grad). Specific programs are a different matter but that's the case for all residencies.

 

[Mokthraka]

In general? Not very. Peds is one of the less competitive specialties overall meaning you'll likely match somewhere (as a US grad). Specific programs are a different matter but that's the case for all residencies.

😀! I will be a US grad, possibly D.O. but eh, same damn thing to me, just one letter different. but who knows, I might end up hating peds(though I cant see it being that likely.

 

[911 Turbo]

What really kills me about it is that the kid has a very nice MCAT (34). It's not like he has a 2.8 and a 24 MCAT so the Carib is the only way he can go to med school. All the dumb guy needs to do is take a couple more classes to bump his GPA up and he'll be competitive for MDs and a shoe in for a DO.

YES... this is one of the best things your nephew can do OP....

 

[Law2Doc]

​

any idea how hard it is to get into peds residencies?

From a US med school it's not particularly competitive, however not all peds is equal, so unless you don't care about geography or fellowship potential, you still want to make yourself more competitive than the next guy. Coming from offshore really takes all your choices off the table -- you are generally interviewing for the less desirable slots the US grads don't want, if any.

 

[serendipity007]

BUT ISRAEL BRO!

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Less competitive != less important.

Israel bro over there is obviously a prestige ***** though. Talking up the Columbia relationship, chemE, good undergrad, etc. So I'm just saying BGUbro is probably a ROAD or die kind of guy.

Bro, you obviously get a huge boner from talking about everything Israel, Torahs, and BGU, and you just came here to get some anonymous dudes on the internet to confirm your crappy decision. So... just let your nephew go to BGU. No one really cares.

Come back in 4 years and either tell us we're all ******s because your nephew matched Mayo derm or (more likely) come back and tell us he's doing FM/IM/Peds in northern Montana.

🤣 hahahah thanks for the laugh man

 

[An0MalY]

fact: Residency spots are capped.
fact: medical schools are opening up in the US like crazy, especially DO schools
fact: programs pick US students MD or DO over FMG

do the math.

 

[deleted103644]

fact: Residency spots are capped.
fact: medical schools are opening up in the US like crazy, especially DO schools
fact: programs pick US students MD or DO over FMG

do the math.

#2 isn't really a fact, especially with the new DO schools.

I think many people here aren't that familiar with BGU (Columbia affil) or Sackler (Cornell affil).

They both have decent reputations particularly in NYC (thanks to ties) and in general do well placing people in the Northeast (although other regions probably throw those apps into the general FMG pile).

BGU vs SGU is a no-brainer - BGU.

I've heard more about Sackler than BGU, but the former is definitely treated as better than most DO and Caribbean schools by PDs familiar with the program.

Considering the expansion of the DO brand by some very sketchy individuals, I don't think the crunch for spots in the future will shut out grads from programs like BGU and Sackler before, say, Rocky Vista.

 

[link2swim06]

#2 isn't really a fact, especially with the new DO schools.

I think many people here aren't that familiar with BGU (Columbia affil) or Sackler (Cornell affil).

They both have decent reputations particularly in NYC (thanks to ties) and in general do well placing people in the Northeast (although other regions probably throw those apps into the general FMG pile).

BGU vs SGU is a no-brainer - BGU.

I've heard more about Sackler than BGU, but the former is definitely treated as better than most DO and Caribbean schools by PDs familiar with the program.

Considering the expansion of the DO brand by some very sketchy individuals, I don't think the crunch for spots in the future will shut out grads from programs like BGU and Sackler before, say, Rocky Vista.

The previous poster was correct...I need to pull up the AAMC graphs but it clearly shows the increase of med school spots will make the # of US MD/DO students = # of residency spots. This increase is coming from new med schools opening and existing ones expanding their class sizes. This will affect anyone applying right now.

The "DO brand" as you call it always was much better respected than being an IMG. Plus DO students have their entire own match which they can participate in. When there are no extra residency spots I don't think BGU will have the same match list you are seeing today.

 

[san2]

#2 isn't really a fact, especially with the new DO schools.

I think many people here aren't that familiar with BGU (Columbia affil) or Sackler (Cornell affil).

They both have decent reputations particularly in NYC (thanks to ties) and in general do well placing people in the Northeast (although other regions probably throw those apps into the general FMG pile).

BGU vs SGU is a no-brainer - BGU.

I've heard more about Sackler than BGU, but the former is definitely treated as better than most DO and Caribbean schools by PDs familiar with the program.

Considering the expansion of the DO brand by some very sketchy individuals, I don't think the crunch for spots in the future will shut out grads from programs like BGU and Sackler before, say, Rocky Vista.

Finally someone who is talking the same language as I am. BGU and sackler are in a different boat as compared to other international schools, and they will be regarded higher than DO and Carrib grads. Looks like US rotations are not that important thankfully.

 

[deleted103644]

The previous poster was correct...I need to pull up the AAMC graphs but it clearly shows the increase of med school spots will make the # of US MD/DO students = # of residency spots. This increase is coming from new med schools opening and existing ones expanding their class sizes. This will affect anyone applying right now.

The "DO brand" as you call it always was much better respected than being an IMG. Plus DO students have their entire own match which they can participate in. When there are no extra residency spots I don't think BGU will have the same match list you are seeing today.

Saying someone is better off at RVU than Sackler is just stupid, frankly.

There is no law saying that all spots must go to US grads. DOs will be squeezed just like the FMGs.

Top SGU students and students from places like BGU and Sackler will still be fine, or at least as fine as the typical DO.

Aside from the built in options in the AOA match, SDN has a habit of vastly overrating the value of a low tier DO. And the assumption that DOs automatically trump all IMGs is complete fantasy (sure, the diploma mills will be in trouble, but some DO schools are on the path to being diploma mills as well).

And no, I'm not a US IMG trying to rationalize my choice - I'm a US MD.

 

[link2swim06]

Saying someone is better off at RVU than Sackler is just stupid, frankly.

There is no law saying that all spots must go to US grads. DOs will be squeezed just like the FMGs.

Top SGU students and students from places like BGU and Sackler will still be fine, or at least as fine as the typical DO.

Aside from the built in options in the AOA match, SDN has a habit of vastly overrating the value of a low tier DO. And the assumption that DOs automatically trump all IMGs is complete fantasy (sure, the diploma mills will be in trouble, but some DO schools are on the path to being diploma mills as well).

And no, I'm not a US IMG trying to rationalize my choice - I'm a US MD.

Ya I am in US allo...so no vested interest for me either.

We could argue the merits of select IMG vs. DO schools but frankly I dont have the time.

Here is the point...the OP is setting himself up for a bad situation when the easy solution is to (1) go DO and do the AOA match or (2) get his grades up and apply US allo.

Going IMG (or arguably DO in the future) and doing allo match is going to be difficult and a very risky financial/time investment. The above two options I listed are much safer for the OP.

It seems the OP doesn't want to become a DO anyhow...the obvious solution is to get his grades up and apply US allo.

 

[deleted103644]

I agree US MD (hate the word allopathic) is generally better, but in specific regions (particularly NY), graduates of Sackler and BGU might arguably be better situated than grads of some low tier MD programs.

Lumping all IMG programs together is the wrong way to look at this question. Unless you have heard of these particular programs before, you really shouldn't comment on them.

 

[link2swim06]

I agree US MD (hate the word allopathic) is generally better, but in specific regions (particularly NY), graduates of Sackler and BGU might arguably be better situated than grads of some low tier MD programs.

Lumping all IMG programs together is the wrong way to look at this question. Unless you have heard of these particular programs before, you really shouldn't comment on them.

But unfortunately many residencies screen applications based on low step score, IMG status, etc on a pretty regular basis. As competition thickens with more US students I suspect we will see more screening. It is entering a scary time for IMGs for this reason alone.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

I agree US MD (hate the word allopathic) is generally better, but in specific regions (particularly NY), graduates of Sackler and BGU might arguably be better situated than grads of some low tier MD programs.

Lumping all IMG programs together is the wrong way to look at this question. Unless you have heard of these particular programs before, you really shouldn't comment on them.

But my point is this "nephew" could EASILY get into a high end DO or be competitive for an MD school based on his 34 MCAT (as long as he's done some volunteering and whatnot). All he has to do is pull his GPA above screen out level and he'll get looks. Hell, he was already waitlisted at one of his in-state schools THIS year with such a crappy GPA...so he's already gotten interviews. So he could make his life way easier by just taking a year to retake some classes. I think that's the kicker in this case but old san2 has such a boner for BGU that he's not willing to be honest.

 

[san2]

He is fixed on allopathic. And I agree with his decision. DO is not an option.

We were talking last night, and he is following this forum as well and saw all the advice. He thought would it be okay to go to BGU, enroll there as a first year and apply to US MD schools this year as well. He will take the flight out of Israel for interviews wherever he gets them. If he gets into a US school, he will leave BGU and start in 2013 as a first year in a US Allopathic School. If he doesnt get in, he will forget it and go onto second year at BGU, and focus on Step 1 at that point.

Any ideas on how that would work out?

 

[san2]

and he has seen some US MD schools, such as Drexel and few others that accept transfer applications into 3rd year regardless of what school, as long as you go to a school based on an American medical curriculum. He believes if he does really well his first two years at BGU which has a curriculum identical as Columbia, and does well on the boards, along with his undergrad record, he thinks he would be a competitive applicant for transfer to schools such as Drexel if he doesnt get in this application cycle

 

[RogueUnicorn]

this was the sackler match list for 2011 for sackler. seems comparable to yours visionary tics
I copied this of one of the posts

"Had my interview today, went very well. The doctor straight up said he would recommend me to the school so that's very encouraging. Follow the advice of the sababa guy and you'll do fine.

Here's the list, its the first thing that comes up when you type in sackler 2011 match list I don't know how you couldn't find it.
CLASS OF 2011 RESIDENCY POSITIONS:


​

ANESTHESIOLOGY
Boston University Medical Center, Boston Massachusetts
Albert Einstein College of Medicine, Monteifore Medical Center, Bronx, New York
University of California San Francisco Program, San Francisco, California
University of Rochester/Strong Memorial Hosp., Rochester, New York

FAMILY MEDICINE
Jackson Memorial Hospital Program, Miami, Florida
Kaiser Permanente Orange County, California
University of Connecticut Health Center, Farmington, Connecticut

INTERNAL MEDICINE
George Washington University, Washington, DC
Albert Einstein College of Medicine, Jacobi Medical Center, Bronx, New York
Cedars Sinai Medical Center, Los Angeles, California
Drexel University COM/Hahnemann University Hosp., Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Johns Hopkins University/Sinai Hospital, Baltimore, Maryland
Lenox Hill Hospital Program, New York, New York
Maimonides Medical Center, Brooklyn, New York
Mount Sinai School of Medicine Program, New York, New York
Oregon Health & Science University Program, Portland, Oregon
SUNY Health Science Center, Brooklyn, New York
Winthrop University Hospital Program, Mineola, New York
Staten Island University Hospital, Staten Island, New York

MEDICINE PRELIMINARY
Albert Einstein College of Medicine, Monteifore Medical Center, Bronx, New York
Louisiana State University/Ochsner Clinic Foundation Prgm., New Orleans, Louisiana
Maimonides Medical Center, Brooklyn, New York
University of Missouri at Kansas City Program, Kansas City, Missouri

EMERGENCY MEDICINE
Rhode Island Hospital/Brown University Program, Providence, Rhode Island
SUNY Health Science Center, Brooklyn, New York
University of Massachusetts Medical School, Worcester, Massachusetts

OBSTETRICS & GYNECOLOGY
Albert Einstein Medical Center, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Emory University Program, Atlanta, Georgia
Lenox Hill Hospital Program, New York, New York
Lutheran Medical Center, Brooklyn, New York
St. Barnabas Medical Center Program, Livingston, New Jersey

OPHTHALMOLOGY
Louisiana State University/Ochsner Clinic Foundation Prgm., New Orleans, Louisiana
George Washington University, Washington, DC


OTOLARYNGOLOGY
University of Pennsylvania Program, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania


PEDIATRICS
Albert Einstein College of Medicine, Jacobi Medical Center, Bronx, New York
Childrens National Medical Center/George Washington U. Program, Washington, DC
Harbor-UCLA Medical Center, Los Angeles, California
North Shore-Long Island Jewish Health System, New Hyde Park, New York
St. Louis Childrens Hospital, St. Louis, Missouri
SUNY Health Science Center, Brooklyn, New York
University of Connecticut Health Center, Farmington, Connecticut
University of New Mexico Program, Albuquerque, New Mexico

PEDIATRICS PRELIMINARY
SUNY Health Science Center, Brooklyn New York

PSYCHIATRY
Georgetown University Hospital Program, Washington, DC
University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

PHYSICIAL MEDICINE & REHABILATION
Boston University Medical Center, Boston, Massachusetts
Mount. Sinai School of Medicine Program, New York, New York
SUNY Health Science Center, Brooklyn, New York

RADIOLOGY DIAGNOSTIC
Albert Einstein College of Medicine/Jacobi Medical Center, Bronx, New York
Bronx Lebanon Hospital Center Program, Bronx, New York
Mount. Sinai School of Medicine Program, New York, New York

SURGERY
Albert Einstein College of Medicine/Monteifore Medical Center, Bronx, New York
Drexel University COM/Hahnemann University Hosp., Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Maimonides Medical Center, Brooklyn, New York
Santa Barbara Cottage Hospital, Santa Barbara, California

SURGERY PRELIMINARY
Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, Boston, Massachusetts
Lenox Hill Hospital Program, New York, New York


TRANSITIONAL
Maryland General Hospital, Baltimore Maryland
St. Mary's Mercy Hospital, Livonia, Michigan


Urology
Wayne State University/Detroit Medical Center, Detroit, Michigan"

you talk about how we're going off track trying to talk you off a ledge but then bring in a 3rd school with no relevance to your situation.

you also keep mentioning the columbia thing as if it's going to impress anyone, but nobody is dumb enough to be blind to the fact that your nephew couldn't get into any md school here and had to ship off there. and PDs are not going to impressed because the letters come from someone who holds a columbia appointment in name only. hell they're not going to be impressed from faculty actually AT columbia unless s/he is a respected figure on her/his own right

 

[tiedyeddog]

He is fixed on allopathic. And I agree with his decision. DO is not an option.

We were talking last night, and he is following this forum as well and saw all the advice. He thought would it be okay to go to BGU, enroll there as a first year and apply to US MD schools this year as well. He will take the flight out of Israel for interviews wherever he gets them. If he gets into a US school, he will leave BGU and start in 2013 as a first year in a US Allopathic School. If he doesnt get in, he will forget it and go onto second year at BGU, and focus on Step 1 at that point.

Any ideas on how that would work out?

This is terrible advice.

I know you're pretty terrible at listening to advice, but his chance of being accepted while a current student of an IMG school are very slim. Tell him to go to BGU, keep his head down and study very hard, then do well on boards and do as many US aways as possible.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

He is fixed on allopathic. And I agree with his decision. DO is not an option.

We were talking last night, and he is following this forum as well and saw all the advice. He thought would it be okay to go to BGU, enroll there as a first year and apply to US MD schools this year as well. He will take the flight out of Israel for interviews wherever he gets them. If he gets into a US school, he will leave BGU and start in 2013 as a first year in a US Allopathic School. If he doesnt get in, he will forget it and go onto second year at BGU, and focus on Step 1 at that point.

Any ideas on how that would work out?

Probably not well.

Straight from someone who sits on an adcom:

School don't like to poach students from existing programs. Let's say you apply in June and matriculate in August so there is nothing on your AMCAS saying that you are currently enrolled in DO school. Then you get an interview and when the question comes up "what are you doing now" you say you are enrolled in DO
school. 😱 What kind of clown are you? Why are you applying here (wasting our time with an interview) if you are already enrolled in medical school? I'd show you the door
so fast your head would spin.

 

[moneytree]

and he has seen some US MD schools, such as Drexel and few others that accept transfer applications into 3rd year regardless of what school, as long as you go to a school based on an American medical curriculum. He believes if he does really well his first two years at BGU which has a curriculum identical as Columbia, and does well on the boards, along with his undergrad record, he thinks he would be a competitive applicant for transfer to schools such as Drexel if he doesnt get in this application cycle

Hey bro, it's a good thing you mentioned Columbia because I almost forgot about Columbia from the 20 other times you mentioned Columbia. How is your Columbia Columboner fantasy working out?

Expecting to transfer is a fool's game. Transfers are rare. Drexel is not even accepting transfers this year.

Now, let's get back to talking about BGU and Columbia, shall we?

 

[link2swim06]

and he has seen some US MD schools, such as Drexel and few others that accept transfer applications into 3rd year regardless of what school, as long as you go to a school based on an American medical curriculum. He believes if he does really well his first two years at BGU which has a curriculum identical as Columbia, and does well on the boards, along with his undergrad record, he thinks he would be a competitive applicant for transfer to schools such as Drexel if he doesnt get in this application cycle

Thats not going to happen. People get transfers so rarely its not even an option to consider.

I dont get why its a big deal to take a year or two off to improve the GPA. Nearly half of my class took a year off. Him getting a 34 MCAT clearly shows he is smart enough to get the GPA up fast.

I have this feeling 4 or 5 years from now I will be responding to a thread why he didn't match and you are now in debt 200K with 4 years of your life lost. I wouldn't wish that on anyone...but here is a my warning to you.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

People who go to BGU do match. Just not very well

 

[deleted103644]

.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

and he has seen some US MD schools, such as Drexel and few others that accept transfer applications into 3rd year regardless of what school, as long as you go to a school based on an American medical curriculum. He believes if he does really well his first two years at BGU which has a curriculum identical as Columbia, and does well on the boards, along with his undergrad record, he thinks he would be a competitive applicant for transfer to schools such as Drexel if he doesnt get in this application cycle

Let's just think about this for a minute. Drexel's average admitted MCAT is around a 30 and the average admitted GPA is like a 3.5-3.6. So instead of trying to transfer in (nearly impossible) he could just take a year to volunteer and bump his GPA up to 3.5ish range, be a very competitive applicant, get directly admitted and have the option of going into a residency in any field depending on how he does in school. Are you guys really this dense?