Case vs Northwestern?

[dc5484]

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Hello,

I was recently admitted to both Case and Northwestern. Between the two, I am leaning towards Northwestern, but I wanted to hear what others might say out of curiosity's sake. How do the two compare in terms of quality of clinical training, research, and reputation? Any idea which one has better success with landing people into the more competitive residencies?

 

[Maxprime]

Definitely Northwestern - there are too many people on hold @ Case. 🙂

The higher ups all continue to tell us that where you go to med school doesn't affect residency options that much. If you really want to know, US News does a residency director rating IIRC.

 

[illixir]

My thoughts are that the reputation and academics are about equal although case has the edge on research(alot more NIH dollars) and maybe an edge on clinical resources since it doesn't have so many med schools in the same city like with chicago. Northwestern has a definate edge with its location though, really one of the best possible ones you could ask for, in a really nice area of chicago right by lake michigan. I'm pretty sure I'd choose Northwestern if I had the option, they're also my alma mater.

 

[illixir]

.

 

[se2131]

Hello,

I was recently admitted to both Case and Northwestern. Between the two, I am leaning towards Northwestern, but I wanted to hear what others might say out of curiosity's sake. How do the two compare in terms of quality of clinical training, research, and reputation? Any idea which one has better success with landing people into the more competitive residencies?

I was leaning more towards Northwestern too, until I found out that I'm probably waitlisted. Personally I felt like both schools offered very similar opportunities: hospital systems for both are great, emphasis on small-group sessions and organ-based curriculum, both are good for research and reputation is basically equal.

CWRU has their pre-clinical curriculum shortened to 1.5 years, and they're only in class 4 days a week for 4 hours each. All of that's a huge plus for me. They also have pure P/F w/ absolutely no internal rankings. Financial aid is supposedly a bit more generous than others, but that'll vary from person to person.

But Northwestern has one of the best locations out of any medical school in the country. A block from Michigan Avenue, but even then not an incredibly expensive cost-of-living (students were quoting a studio apartment for around $850/month w/ utilities included). Sure it's more expensive than most other places, but for living in a great part of a great city, it's a steal. P/F, but I'm not sure if they have internal rankings. Financial aid is historically stingy.

 

[dc5484]

My thoughts are that the reputation and academics are about equal although case has the edge on research(alot more NIH dollars) and maybe an edge on clinical resources since it doesn't have so many med schools in the same city like with chicago. Northwestern has a definate edge with its location though, really one of the best possible ones you could ask for, in a really nice area of chicago right by lake michigan. I'm pretty sure I'd choose Northwestern if I had the option, they're also my alma mater.

about the 'alot more NIH dollars' thing...I know that may affect how the institution ranks in terms of research as a whole, but how much will that really affect the life of a med student who wants to do research?

Also, I know that they are pretty similar in terms of cost, with Northwestern being slightly more expensive. That being said, when I visited both schools, I liked Northwestern a lot more (NU was one of my favorites of the 11 schools I interviewed at)...not to say that I didn't like Case though. A big part of that came down to location...as I quickly realized when I visited and as many have stated, NU has one of the best, if not THE best, locations of any med school in the US. Case's location on the other hand...I'm sure that with time I could convince myself to like Cleveland, but it completely pales in comparison to NU's location in chicago. in short, all other things being equal, I liked NU a lot more and between the two, I would most likely choose NU.

Now, assuming all other things not being equal, specifically money. I got invited to apply for Case Western's merit scholarships. In the event that I was awarded a scholarship at Case and none at NU, does anyone think that it would still be worth going to NU considering the fact that I liked it that much more? I would like to think that it does, but I'm curious what other people have to say. Is NU really that stingy with scholarships? Why would that be? Don't they have plenty of money?

 

[Maxprime]

about the 'alot more NIH dollars' thing...I know that may affect how the institution ranks in terms of research as a whole, but how much will that really affect the life of a med student who wants to do research?

Also, I know that they are pretty similar in terms of cost, with Northwestern being slightly more expensive. That being said, when I visited both schools, I liked Northwestern a lot more

All kidding aside, this is the most important thing. It's better to be poor and happy than miserable and relatively less poor. Go to the school where you think you will be happiest - if they offer you money, it's a huge bonus.

As for research, if research is really important to you then it's going to come down to people - which school has the PI you want to work with? If you just want to do a little research, I would see which school is better funded in your field of interest. Although both schools are huge, departments usually have a bias towards one group of diseases or particular area. I work in a tiny lab that doesn't have infinite funding, but we work on my very specific area of interest so I don't mind it one bit. If nothing else, NIH dollars are a good survey of research volume - look into where the money is going to see if that figure will benefit you any.

 

[dc5484]

bump

 

[littlealex]

What's the point of bumping it? No one can really make this decision for you. It's intensely personal.

 

[Nookular]

What's the point of bumping it? No one can really make this decision for you. It's intensely personal.

Um.. maybe so they could get more input??? Yes its personal, but it is good to hear other people's reasons for why they love their school/top choice.

I had to cancel my first Case interview due to my flight never leaving the ground, and by the time they rescheduled I was so burnt out that I took myself out of the applicant pool, so I can't speak to Case much.

One thing that bugged me about NW was the people I talked to seemed to only be going there because they didn't get into other places. NW is a great school, and the best location (imo) possible, so i was really surprised by the 'ho-hum' attitude of the students I talked to, but I'm sure that was just a fluke. I bring this up because the people I know at Case rave about how great it is constantly. This is all pretty useless info though... I say let second look weekend be your judge.

One concern about case, their newly revamped (and still being revamped) curriculum has lowered their mean Step 1 score, and these new changes for the 08 class may lower it even more, so if you are interested in something highly competitive this may be something to consider.

 

[1956Goldtop]

NU is in a great area! It's a seriously sick school. I'm having a hard time with my decision because I loved it so much, but I got into a few NYC schools.

 

[dc5484]

NU is in a great area! It's a seriously sick school. I'm having a hard time with my decision because I loved it so much, but I got into a few NYC schools.

Which schools in NYC, and which ones would you take over NU? I loved NU when I was there, but I find the cost a little scary, especially since I hear they aren't especially generous with their financial aid...hmm.

 

[nu2004]

One concern about case, their newly revamped (and still being revamped) curriculum has lowered their mean Step 1 score, and these new changes for the 08 class may lower it even more, so if you are interested in something highly competitive this may be something to consider.

source?

 

[bears123]

Northwestern!!! Northwestern is in the second most interesting city in the country vs. "the mistake on the lake." Beyond that, Northwestern is a much more respected name than Case.

 

[crazy4clana]

No brainer, Northwestern all the way! More reputable, research intensive, and in an awesome city.

 

[BigRedPremed]

I don't think Feinberg is more respected than CWRU. In terms of education, quality of student body, research, reputation, etc. the difference is probably negligible. Feinberg has the edge in location but could potentially be more expensive. Go to the one YOU like the best.

 

[crazy4clana]

I believe it is, of course both schools are very good but most people recognize Northwestern as one of the best med schools and will probably not know as much about Case. Northwestern is definately more recognizable. But that shouldn't matter, go where you want to. 🙂

 

[TarHeel55]

I believe it is, of course both schools are very good but most people recognize Northwestern as one of the best med schools and will probably not know as much about Case. Northwestern is definately more recognizable.

Huh?!? By "most people," do you mean clinicians? patients? PIs? And your evidence that "most people" think this way is..........?

 

[Chaz Michaels]

No brainer, Northwestern all the way! More reputable, research intensive, and in an awesome city.

Those who live/work/know academic medicine know that Case Western Reserve is one of the most well-respected, well-established institutions in the U.S.

In addition to practically defining the way that the U.S. educates medical students, they have one of the most well-rounded clinical training programs, and are among the top schools in regard to basic and clinical research.

Do a little research about the history of Case Western, you'll find Nobel prize winners. Do a little research into the backgrounds of the leaders of many top medical schools, many trained at Case Western. They were among the first to have a MSTP program.

NW has a good name because it has solid programs in many other fields and Feinberg is a great place. Many appreciate face value and location, and hat's off to NW.

No brainier? Not quite.

They are both great schools.

 

[crazy4clana]

Those who live/work/know academic medicine know that Case Western Reserve is one of the most well-respected, well-established institutions in the U.S.

In addition to practically defining the way that the U.S. educates medical students, they have one of the most well-rounded clinical training programs, and are among the top schools in regard to basic and clinical research.

So is Northwestern, but IMO it is more highly regarded. You're entitled to you opinion, I don't agree with it.

Do a little research about the history of Case Western, you'll find Nobel prize winners. Do a little research into the backgrounds of the leaders of many top medical schools, many trained at Case Western. They were among the first to have a MSTP program.

So does Northwestern? So? They're both comparable med schools with great medical education.

 

[nu2004]

Those who live/work/know academic medicine know that Case Western Reserve is one of the most well-respected, well-established institutions in the U.S.

In addition to practically defining the way that the U.S. educates medical students, they have one of the most well-rounded clinical training programs, and are among the top schools in regard to basic and clinical research.

Do a little research about the history of Case Western, you'll find Nobel prize winners. Do a little research into the backgrounds of the leaders of many top medical schools, many trained at Case Western. They were among the first to have a MSTP program.

NW has a good name because it has solid programs in many other fields and Feinberg is a great place. Many appreciate face value and location, and hat's off to NW.

No brainier? Not quite.

They are both great schools.

this is the definitive post in this thread.

i did my undergrad at Northwestern and loved it. i'm going to Case this year and anticipate that I will love it.

 

[pparikh]

You will be able to rotate at the cleveland clinic, make connections there..and if you are at all interested in cardiology or oncology you should be picking case...

 

[Pegsie]

I am a 4th year at Case, so I did not go through the new basic science curriculum, can't attest to that.

In terms of reputation, Case easily matches Northwestern in name recognition, at least within the medical field. I think where Case falls behind in recognition is as an undergraduate university.

The university has been a leader in medical education. They organ system-based curriculum that many schools use was pioneered in the 1950s at Case...of course, that was 50 years ago, which is why the administration thinks a revamping is in order. The 2008 entering class will be the 3rd class to go through the new curriculum, so likely glaring problems will be fixed...however, it will still be a new system, up to you to decide whether you want to be "guinea pig" or not (some see it as an opportunity to help shape medical education - our committees always have student representation).

One last benefit to Case that I didn't realize when I was applying to medical school...we have a ton of hospitals to rotate through. There are three main hospitals (University, Cleveland Clinic, and MetroHealth - the county hospital), along with two VA sites and numerous community hospitals (5 that I can name off the top of my head). As we are the only medical school in the city, we have a lot of freedom to rotate where we want, especially for electives. Each hospital has its own little niche and own little atmosphere.

As for city life...I admit you can't compare cleveland vs. chicago. However, if you are not interested in night life available 24 hours a day, I think you'll find that Cleveland can hold its own. I'm won't comment on the clubs, but there's quite a music scene (for quite cheap, I am reluctant to spend $30 on a concert anymore), an surprising diversity of restaurants (the newest Iron Chef has his two main restaurants here, one of which has a $5 happy-hour menu), and plenty of art (museums, plays, etc.).

But come see for yourself...I imagine second look weekend will be well-populated by all classes but the third years. 🙂

 

[GalaxySystem]

Tell 100 people that you got accepted to both Case Western Medical School, and Northwestern Medical School, and 99 will then ask "Case Western? Where's that?"

I speak from experience. Enough said.

BTW, anyone considering a surgical specialty would be wise to pick Northwestern over Case. Ask any residency director in a surgical specialty. I have (neurosurgeons).

 

[TheRealMD]

Tell 100 people that you got accepted to both Case Western Medical School, and Northwestern Medical School, and 99 will then ask "Case Western? Where's that?"

I speak from experience. Enough said.

BTW, anyone considering a surgical specialty would be wise to pick Northwestern over Case. Ask any residency director in a surgical specialty. I have (neurosurgeons).

Making decisions based on a choice that is likely to change isn't the greatest idea.

 

[whoisthedrizzle]

This wasn't a criterion of yours, but I think it's significant:

Chicago >>>>>>> Cleveland

 

[nu2004]

This wasn't a criterion of yours, but I think it's significant:

Chicago >>>>>>> Cleveland

i totally agree, but do medical students really have time to take advantage of what a city like Chicago has to offer? i didn't even have time as an undergrad. one of the reasons i specifically chose Case, after some initial hesitation about Cleveland, was that there is relatively little going on. that is to say, there will be fewer opportunities when i am torn between going and seeing a band or studying.

personally, i have LOVED my 8 years of living (on the periphery) of Chicago, and have taken advantage of much of what the city has to offer. but i know myself, too. if there are too many times when i have to choose between doing something awesome in the city and studying, i'll either a) study less and thus fail to achieve my full potential as a medical student and possibly as a physician, or b) get depressed that i'm not taking advantage of all the wonderful things happening around me.

Tell 100 people that you got accepted to both Case Western Medical School, and Northwestern Medical School, and 99 will then ask "Case Western? Where's that?"

I speak from experience. Enough said.

enough said about... what?

both are great medical schools with great reputations. just because the public at large happens to know about one university (because of its well-known undergraduate programs) should mean absolutely zero to someone trying to decide where to attend medical school. there are distinct differences between the two schools in terms of curriculum, hospital resources, and location. the OP - and anyone trying to choose a medical school - should pick based on those types of criteria, imo.

 

[jbrice1639]

i totally agree, but do medical students really have time to take advantage of what a city like Chicago has to offer?

absolutely. especially during first year, when a lot of us seemed to have even more free time than in undergrad.

 

[Et2O]

Just Adding my 2 cents. I was accepted to both NU and Case (and CCLCM) (but I don't think I go to either :-/)

Anyway:

NU: Pros: Great city, beautiful facilities, recognizable name
Cons: Expensive city, an asthetically pretty, but very private hospital.

Case Pros: Strong research, good hospital system
Cons: City not as fun, less name recognition.

One more thing about Cleveland. I not from there but I don't think its as bad as its cracked up to be. While it is no chicago, it does have 3 professional sports teams, a nice district around the Q, and cheap living. Consider an apartment that cost you ~500 in cleveland, will be more like 800-900 in the NW area.

Personally I liked Case better, but like I said probably won't attend either.

 

[BrainBuff]

I am glad that Case has such a fan club here, but come on!

-Northwestern has a much greater name recognition than Case (at any level ). Research wise they are pretty comparable and ranked the same in the dubious US News rankings.
- Chicago is one of the best cities in the US: Galleries, Museums, Symphony, Theater plus clubs, restaurants, etc. No wonder it is a main tourist destination ( I do not believe that travel agents are overwhelmed planning tourist packages to Cleveland ! )
-Northwestern medical School is located in the middle of everything that's happening in the city. ( unlike most top med schools in the country ) You have a view of Lake Michigan ( seems like an ocean view ) from most buildings downtown.
-Northwestern students are really well taken care off by the school ( access, curriculum, schedules, time off )
- Wheather- I do not think is much different

Of course, if someone does not prefer the city life, and what it can offer then you can make a different argument. Name wise though, Northwestern beats Case every time.

 

[nu2004]

( I do not believe that travel agents are overwhelmed planning tourist packages to Cleveland ! )

i lolled 😀

 

[searun]

There is a reason why Chicago is called the "Second City". Because it is not New York City, the "First City." But I doubt that Cleveland is the "Third City."

 

[nu2004]

There is a reason why Chicago is called the "Second City". Because it is not New York City, the "First City." But I doubt that Cleveland is the "Third City."

yeah, i'm not sure Cleveland would even make US News' rankings 😉

 

[astrocreep96]

Ack! Pre-meds with feigned experience/knowledge leading other pre-meds through life-changing decisions.

Where's Peris Hilton? We have another reality show in the making...

 

[BullsOnParade]

-Northwestern has a much greater name recognition than Case (at any level ).

Patently false. Take cards and heart surgery. Case recruited some of the biggest names in cardiology from Harvard: Mukesh Jain, James Fang, and Dan Simon. Cleveland Clinic does more heart surgeries than any other hospital in the world. Northwestern doesn't even come close in name recognition when it comes to hearts.

Name one department at NW that would have greater recognition than one affiliated with Case.

 

[BullsOnParade]

Tell 100 people that you got accepted to both Case Western Medical School, and Northwestern Medical School, and 99 will then ask "Case Western? Where's that?"

I speak from experience. Enough said.

BTW, anyone considering a surgical specialty would be wise to pick Northwestern over Case. Ask any residency director in a surgical specialty. I have (neurosurgeons).

So this accounts for evidence in pre-allo. Wow.

 

[coralfangs]

Well, every major city DOES have the stuff ones look for, you just have to know where to find.
For a guy who knows the ins and outs of Manhattan/Brooklyn (particularly LES and Williamsburg), I do not think Cleveland is inferior. It's just more compact. Take local live music for instance, I spend a lot of time at Mercury Lounge, Bowery Ballroom, Cakeshop, Studio B, etc. Instead of going to different places for live shows in Cleveland, one might find most of the good shows in a few dedicated venues such as Grog Shop (ie they have Crystal Castles playing there next week before they head to NYC).
In terms of arts scene, University Circle has quite a few decent museums/theatres as well. I've been painting and going to arts schools since I was 10 and I don't find the art scene there lacking.
Sure you have less museums, music venues, etc, but do you really think you would be constantly visiting those places.
I live a couple blocks away from the MET and I don't even visit it often.



Just my two cents.
Just don't judge a city based on its tourism if you are going to live there for a couple of years.

 

[bozz]

Northwestern > Case ... for undergrad

Med school.. it's a lil' more even I feel.

Have you looked into Case's almost 100% PBL curriculum?

The organ based system in the 50s seemed amazing.. I'm surprised they changed it.

I don't know about Northwestern's curriculum but assuming it isn't as PBL-focused might help you make the decision.

 

[nu2004]

Northwestern > Case ... for undergrad

Med school.. it's a lil' more even I feel.

Have you looked into Case's almost 100% PBL curriculum?

The organ based system in the 50s seemed amazing.. I'm surprised they changed it.

I don't know about Northwestern's curriculum but assuming it isn't as PBL-focused might help you make the decision.

the new CCLCM (Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine) curriculum is almost 100% PBL. the University Program (usually what people refer to when they say "Case Western School of Medicine") has some PBL, but it is not the majority of the curriculum style.

 

[bozz]

the new CCLCM (Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine) curriculum is almost 100% PBL. the University Program (usually what people refer to when they say "Case Western School of Medicine") has some PBL, but it is not the majority of the curriculum style.

really? someone who goes there right now told me it was 2 hours of lecture/week.. and that's it. The rest is PBL.... hmm..

 

[illixir]

The University program is 50 percent lecture 50 percent PBL. The weekly schedule is as follows: 4 days a week(M,T,W,F) have 4 hours of class from 8-12, 2 hours are lecture, 2 hours are PBL. Almost all afternoons are free(some weeks you have something one or two days) and Thursdays are off. It is completely pass/fail and no internal ranking is kept. The curriculum is still organ-based, and is moreso than any other school focusing on different systems of the body at once. There is also not a formal anatomy lab like there is at other school, though some students do take an additional anatomy course and all of the resources are used by students in self-directed learning. The curriculum also has a required research component with a mandatory 4 month block dedicated to it in the clinical years, and rotations start early in march of the second year to accomodate it.

This info is on their website I'm pretty sure and I also have their info from the Interview day.

 

[bozz]

The University program is 50 percent lecture 50 percent PBL. The weekly schedule is as follows: 4 days a week(M,T,W,F) have 4 hours of class from 8-12, 2 hours are lecture, 2 hours are PBL. Almost all afternoons are free(some weeks you have something one or two days) and Thursdays are off. It is completely pass/fail and no internal ranking is kept. The curriculum is still organ-based, and is moreso than any other school focusing on different systems of the body at once. There is also not a formal anatomy lab like there is at other school, though some students do take an additional anatomy course and all of the resources are used by students in self-directed learning. The curriculum also has a required research component with a mandatory 4 month block dedicated to it in the clinical years, and rotations start early in march of the second year to accomodate it.

This info is on their website I'm pretty sure and I also have their info from the Interview day.

Thanks a lot for the info 👍
Did not know that

 

[CCLCMer]

the new CCLCM (Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine) curriculum is almost 100% PBL. the University Program (usually what people refer to when they say "Case Western School of Medicine") has some PBL, but it is not the majority of the curriculum style.

really? someone who goes there right now told me it was 2 hours of lecture/week.. and that's it. The rest is PBL.... hmm..

Actually, both of the people who told you guys this are wrong. The CCLCM curriculum is about 1/4 PBL, 1/3 seminar, and the rest is clinical and other. Year 1, we have 6 hours of PBL, 8 hours of seminar, 1.5 hours of FCM (medicine and society), 4 hours of clinic/clinical skills/communications, and 1 hour of research seminar per week (6 hours of PBL out of 20.5 hours total per week). Second year is almost the same except we have 8 hours of clinic/clinical skills/communications per week (6 hours of PBL out of 24.5 hours total per week). Here's the link to the CCLCM academics web page if you want to read more about the specifics of the curriculum.

I haven't read through all the responses in the thread, but to dc5484, my advice is to go to both second looks if you can and see what your financial aid packages are like. Both schools are excellent, so just go wherever you like the best or wherever gives you the most financial aid. You're not going to be hurting your chances of getting a good residency or a good education by choosing either one of these schools. I know you feel right now like you could be making a huge mistake by picking the wrong one, but there isn't any wrong choice. Good luck with your decision.

 

[tulip08]

I am making essentially the exact same decision but in addition to Northwestern and Case, I also got into Emory. As it looks right now, I think I'll choose Emory (mostly because I CANNOT stand cold weather and can't wait to get away from it..).

If Emory wasn't in the mix, I'd probably choose Case Western. One, it has freaking awesome affiliated hospitals. Two, Case med school is it in Cleveland so like someone pointed out earlier, all doors are open to you. Three, Case sees a more diverse demographic of patients unlike Northwestern (at least that's the feel I got). Four, the people there just seemed much more down-to-earth to me but I guess this varies from class to class.

Tough choice.. hopefully the financial aid package will make it easier for me..

 

[The Buff]

NU: Pros: Great city, beautiful facilities, recognizable name
Cons: Expensive city, an asthetically pretty, but very private hospital.

r.

As a third year at NU, this is my favorite myth to dispel about Northwestern Memorial. Literally half my patients on any given service are homeless, have HIV, do drugs, or all of the above. NMH takes all patients that come to the ER from the middle of the city (EMTALA, anyone?) and thus the floors are filled with all levels of society.

Probably doesn't help your pick much, but I just wanted to point that out.

 

[BrainBuff]

Patently false. Take cards and heart surgery. Case recruited some of the biggest names in cardiology from Harvard: Mukesh Jain, James Fang, and Dan Simon. Cleveland Clinic does more heart surgeries than any other hospital in the world. Northwestern doesn't even come close in name recognition when it comes to hearts.

Name one department at NW that would have greater recognition than one affiliated with Case.

Your argument is only valid for RESIDENCY Programs. We are talking about medical school over here. Northwestern Medical School is a lot more prestigious and is more of brand name than Case. Most people have never heard of Case!

 

[se2131]

Your argument is only valid for RESIDENCY Programs. We are talking about medical school over here. Northwestern Medical School is a lot more prestigious and is more of brand name than Case. Most people have never heard of Case!

Seriously, who cares which is more prestigious to pre-meds (who are basically idiotic, myself included, when it comes to actually evaluating medical schools)? And to the people who matter (residency directors, etc.), there is no way that either school has significantly more "prestige" than the other.

I had never even heard of Mt. Sinai as a medical school (I just thought it was a good hospital) until I started researching schools. But that school is just as prestigious to people who actually matter.

Pre-meds don't matter. Period.

 

[jackson123]

I can't speak for Northwestern, but I was really freaked out by the people at case western when I interviewed there. I think they are way too obsessed with "curriculum". All that matters is whether the professors who teach are relatively engaging.

 

[nu2004]

Northwestern Medical School is a lot more prestigious

false.

and is more of brand name than Case. Most people have never heard of Case!

true.

seriously, put these weakass arguments away.

 

[nu2004]

I can't speak for Northwestern, but I was really freaked out by the people at case western when I interviewed there. I think they are way too obsessed with "curriculum". All that matters is whether the professors who teach are relatively engaging.

I'll admit, it's a little funny the way that they emphasize the curriculum. I think that there are a few things that make Case unique (only med school+CCLCM in Cleveland, curriculum, sort of) and they really emphasize these to try to obscure some of the downsides to the school, like... being in Cleveland, and having no windows in the med school.

Also, I think they have high hopes for this new curriculum given the success of their last curriculum, which as another poster said re-shaped the way that this country teaches its medical students when it was introduced back in the 50s.
http://bmccg.com/case/WR2Curriculum.pdf