CASPer thoughts

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DrDwayneJohnson

DrDwayneJohnson

Maester of the Citadel in training
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I just finished my test and I just wanted to share some thoughts for those who may be taking it in the future.

1. Don't waste your time by prepping for this. It is absolutely important to know current topics in medical ethics, but research these after you type your secondary essays. I mistakingly "prepped" by looking at bioethics sites for this instead of writing responses.

2. Practice typing. Luckily, I'm a scribe and AOL was my life in middle school so I can type quickly. With that being said, I still ran out of time on a lot of my responses. That can be credited to me trying to be pretty in depth, though.

3. Balance your time during the test. No brainer here, but don't spend 4.25/5 min answering the first prompt so you only have time to type a generic answer for the third question. I did this on the first one and it was quite foolish.

4. Recognize it for what it is. I'm sure that it can help admissions committees at least a bit by removing even 1-2 sociopaths (even though a sociopath might fake their way through this test), but I imagine most people score pretty much around the same ballpark. Feel free to prep all you want, but I'm not sure it will help you.

So, for those of you who may resemble pre-test me: Don't stress. Just learn how to type fast. I guess I should say to take that with a grain of salt though, since I won't ever know my score.
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Yeah I was given some poor guidance that there likely would be. They also suggested looking up stuff of Canadian or American Medical Ethics. The only thing remotely medical was a mental health bit.
 
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+1
I messed up by writing an excellent response to questions 1 and 2 and would get cut off mid sentence on number 3
 
DrDwayneJohnson said:
I just finished my test and I just wanted to share some thoughts for those who may be taking it in the future.

1. Don't waste your time by prepping for this. It is absolutely important to know current topics in medical ethics, but research these after you type your secondary essays. I mistakingly "prepped" by looking at bioethics sites for this instead of writing responses.

2. Practice typing. Luckily, I'm a scribe and AOL was my life in middle school so I can type quickly. With that being said, I still ran out of time on a lot of my responses. That can be credited to me trying to be pretty in depth, though.

3. Balance your time during the test. No brainer here, but don't spend 4.25/5 min answering the first prompt so you only have time to type a generic answer for the third question. I did this on the first one and it was quite foolish.

4. Recognize it for what it is. I'm sure that it can help admissions committees at least a bit by removing even 1-2 sociopaths (even though a sociopath might fake their way through this test), but I imagine most people score pretty much around the same ballpark. Feel free to prep all you want, but I'm not sure it will help you.

So, for those of you who may resemble pre-test me: Don't stress. Just learn how to type fast. I guess I should say to take that with a grain of salt though, since I won't ever know my score.
Click to expand...

I agree that "prepping for ethics" for CASPer wouldn't have helped on my version of the test. However, I think doing practice CASPer tests in hindsight would have made a difference at least in managing my time.
 
Want to hear a Casper trick? You can almost use the same generic responses to answer all the questions, regardless of the question/senario. I have an arsenal of 10-20 pre set answers. For the test today I had 4-6 sentences per question. Good luck though. Ps Casper is dumb.
 
Mr Donald Mouse said:
Want to hear a Casper trick? You can almost use the same generic responses to answer all the questions, regardless of the question/senario. I have an arsenal of 10-20 pre set answers. For the test today I had 4-6 sentences per question. Good luck though. Ps Casper is dumb.
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Could you PM me with more info on this and/or a pdf/doc of your responses?
 
There's no need to use prepared responses. Every question is basically "Here's scenario, do you agree? Would you bend the rules or follow them? Explain your reasoning etc" Just answer honestly. It's not hard, they aren't trying to trick you. I don't know how it's scored but after taking it today I feel that using the same or similar generic responses would result in a lower score.

If you want to prepare just practice typing faster.
 
I had a great time answering all those questions, for all those studying just don't do it. I didn't prep at all except for the practice test which I would probably recommend just to get used to the format, but to be honest I think CASPer is the dumbest thing I've ever had to take in the entirety of my life. I feel like everyone is of course going to be rational in their answers and thoughtful in those types of situations of other peoples thoughts etc etc etc. I think med schools should do a "what would you do?" type scenario on interview day and really see how people act when ethical dilemmas come up.
 
I spent the week looking over bioethics topics. This is completely unnecessary. Just practice your timing with the different practice CASPer exams out there and you should be good to go.
 
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I could have totally used it too. I was drained towards the end.
 
If you took CASPer and thought that it is easy, would you mind sharing some of the questions you had and how you answered them? I'm sure it would help those of us who still have to do the test a lot.
 
DrDwayneJohnson said:
Yeah I was given some poor guidance that there likely would be. They also suggested looking up stuff of Canadian or American Medical Ethics. The only thing remotely medical was a mental health bit.
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I hope you did well.

CASPer is a new test, so it makes sense why there's so much misinformation surrounding the test from premeds. Also doesn't help that the people who run the test are not open about the test. They're super secretive about the test because they don't want anyone to study for it in advance. Otherwise, why not share a blueprint like all the other tests if they truly believed that their test was not affected by coaching.
 
SO - I only need CASPer for two schools and I am signed up to take it tonight, but I'm in the middle of secondaries, an intensive writing class, research, and work. Would it be better for me to reschedule for the August 10 date or would that put me too far behind in being complete at those two schools? I have done two practice "tests" (But really, they're only three prompts long). I'm torn as I would like to put SOME time into prepping for it. On the other hand, I don't want to be late on being complete.

(Two schools = NYMC and Rosy Franklin)

EDIT: FWIW, I can move forward through the review process at NYMC without results in, but Rosy Franklin will not mark me complete until the results are in. If I take tonight, that should coincide with when I'm actually able to finish the secondary. If I take August 10, they may get the results by Labor Day. I'm feeling like I'd rather have good results two weeks later than bad results before?
 
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DBC03 said:
SO - I only need CASPer for two schools and I am signed up to take it tonight, but I'm in the middle of secondaries, an intensive writing class, research, and work. Would it be better for me to reschedule for the August 10 date or would that put me too far behind in being complete at those two schools? I have done two practice "tests" (But really, they're only three prompts long). I'm torn as I would like to put SOME time into prepping for it. On the other hand, I don't want to be late on being complete.

(Two schools = NYMC and Rosy Franklin)
Click to expand...

Do the Casper ASAP. There is no telling if the august reschedule will go off without a hitch. If you voluntarily skip this one and the august on e has technical difficulty, you'll be still waiting for it in September.


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21Rush12 said:
Do the Casper ASAP. There is no telling if the august reschedule will go off without a hitch. If you voluntarily skip this one and the august on e has technical difficulty, you'll be still waiting for it in September.


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Click to expand...

So there's really no point in trying to prepare (even mentally) before taking it? I did try a practice exam or two. I just wonder if feeling somewhat flustered will throw me off. On the other hand, I tend to do better with a little extra adrenaline.
 
Watch videos of MMI practice and ask yourself if you can come up with that kind of thing. Present a point, the reasoning behind it, and how you can see both sides but your side is the best answer for x reason. Then move on. Get warmed up typing, don't worry about spelling and grammar (as it says in the instructions) and give it a go, IMO. Delaying your application doesn't seem like the best idea, and they are so unreliable that I wouldn't bet on them to be able to coherently administer a whole cycle's worth of CASPer tests without a screwup.


Sent from my iPad using SDN mobile
 
21Rush12 said:
Watch videos of MMI practice and ask yourself if you can come up with that kind of thing. Present a point, the reasoning behind it, and how you can see both sides but your side is the best answer for x reason. Then move on. Get warmed up typing, don't worry about spelling and grammar (as it says in the instructions) and give it a go, IMO. Delaying your application doesn't seem like the best idea, and they are so unreliable that I wouldn't bet on them to be able to coherently administer a whole cycle's worth of CASPer tests without a screwup.


Sent from my iPad using SDN mobile
Click to expand...

Thanks! I keep reminding myself that this is a small part of an application to just two schools who are still getting used to these types of tests. so maybe it's just not that big of deal. If I was just applying to NYMC, I would definitely postpone since they will send interviews without the score in. But Rosy Franklin does not - if I'm honest with myself, that's probably one of the few schools I'm actually somewhat competitive for.
 
You should let the company know. You are definitely meant to get a 15 min optional break after the first 6 scenarios.
 
21Rush12 said:
@DBC03 I hope it's going well and that you're not stuck in the tech mess


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Click to expand...

DONE. I have no idea how I did. I thought some were pretty straight forward and didn't really require an explanation. Then some could go any way you wanted. I'm just glad I didn't have any crazy ideas like I did during the practice exam. And while i thought 5 minutes was enough during the practice exam, my typing definitely gets worse with nervousness... Thanks for the advice about taking it! I don't think it will keep me from getting in.
 
Good for you! I'm sure did fine. They're common sense and really you never get to see your score so we will never know how it affected your admissions.


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21Rush12 said:
Good for you! I'm sure did fine. They're common sense and really you never get to see your score so we will never know how it affected your admissions.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
Click to expand...

Thanks for encouraging me to take it. It did waste a large portion of my day, but at least now it's over!
 
Alright, just finished my typing speed test...err...objective personality assessment. I'm now wondering if they have someone monitoring my video feed to catch all of my sarcastic comments about the acting.
 
Mr Donald Mouse said:
Want to hear a Casper trick? You can almost use the same generic responses to answer all the questions, regardless of the question/senario. I have an arsenal of 10-20 pre set answers. For the test today I had 4-6 sentences per question. Good luck though. Ps Casper is dumb.
Click to expand...
Could you please PM me with those pre-set answers?
 
21Rush12 said:
Do the Casper ASAP. There is no telling if the august reschedule will go off without a hitch. If you voluntarily skip this one and the august on e has technical difficulty, you'll be still waiting for it in September.


Sent from my iPad using SDN mobile
Click to expand...

What do you mean by this? Has CASPer been prone to technical difficulties in the past? We can only take it once right, so if there is a technical difficulty, what happens? It's also online so there would be no one to help out in such a case. I hope that doesn't mean we can't retake until the next year...
 
mariposas905 said:
What do you mean by this? Has CASPer been prone to technical difficulties in the past? We can only take it once right, so if there is a technical difficulty, what happens? It's also online so there would be no one to help out in such a case. I hope that doesn't mean we can't retake until the next year...
Click to expand...
There is customer support online if things go wrong
 
I took it on the 8th. It is really stupid and a giant waste of time. I will echo the advice to not waste any more of your time preparing for this. There was not a single scenario that a person without a personality disorder couldn’t answer ethically.

In fact, the only prep I would do is the system check to make sure you won’t have issues and possibly an online typing test to see how fast you type so you know how to manage your time between the three questions per prompt. That should take no longer than a minute (and however long the system requirements test takes).
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
I took it on the 8th. It is really stupid and a giant waste of time. I will echo the advice to not waste any more of your time preparing for this. There was not a single scenario that a person without a personality disorder couldn’t answer ethically.

In fact, the only prep I would do is the system check to make sure you won’t have issues and possibly an online typing test to see how fast you type so you know how to manage your time between the three questions per prompt. That should take no longer than a minute (and however long the system requirements test takes).
Click to expand...
Which really makes me wonder how on Earth they're scoring this thing.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
I took it on the 8th. It is really stupid and a giant waste of time. I will echo the advice to not waste any more of your time preparing for this. There was not a single scenario that a person without a personality disorder couldn’t answer ethically.

In fact, the only prep I would do is the system check to make sure you won’t have issues and possibly an online typing test to see how fast you type so you know how to manage your time between the three questions per prompt. That should take no longer than a minute (and however long the system requirements test takes).
Click to expand...

Sagebrush said:
Which really makes me wonder how on Earth they're scoring this thing.
Click to expand...

I wonder why some people think CASPer results denied them admission if this test is not that hard 😕
 
mariposas905 said:
I wonder why some people think CASPer results denied them admission if this test is not that hard 😕
Click to expand...

There are certain unknown metrics you are judged against, and apparently your score is curved to everyone who tested with you. So even if you answer like a normal human being, you can still get a lower score. It’s an extremely stupid, bull**** test.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
There are certain unknown metrics you are judged against, and apparently your score is curved to everyone who tested with you. So even if you answer like a normal human being, you can still get a lower score. It’s an extremely stupid, bull**** test.
Click to expand...

honestly, that's so stupid. I wish med schools just required it prior to matriculation or something. It sucks to need to have that in for completion status :annoyed:
 
How to Become Rich:
1. Make a test examining one’s willingness to be a narc.
2. Don’t tell anyone how it’s scored
3. Insist that the test is resistant to training and practice unlike every other test that exists which is scored using curves and a rubric
4. Charge people money for the test
5. Correlate the test with a random subjective measure that itself correlates with most other vaguely positive things like interview performance
6. Also run a consultancy firm that gets paid money to help the people who are receiving your test interpret the results which you insist on not explaining or sharing with anyone
7. Charge people taking the test even more money for bs practice courses, exams, and materials.
 
Sagebrush said:
Which really makes me wonder how on Earth they're scoring this thing.
Click to expand...

Okay, snark aside, the original paper describing the exam in Academic Medicine claims the exam uses a 10 point Likert scale-esque system with 2 independent reviewers rating each response.

Extending the Interview to All Medical School... : Academic Medicine

Paper says on average people took 2 minutes to review each answer. That said, it’s unclear how strongly factors like typing speed or training play into the exam.

One has to ask the question: if this is a professionalism test then the scenarios must have ostensibly correct answers, or at least a narrow range of most correct possibilities. However, how is that range determined? I suspect that it is measured by one’s ability to follow rules and regulations while demonstrating concern for human beings, but who decided that was the most appropriate way to do it? Healthcare professionals? If the healthcare professionals aren’t doing a good job at that already, why should they be in a position to decide how to grade the test? What if it was scored by ethicists? By only doctors? By only nurses? People with a lot of experience as patients in healthcare systems? People of color only? Lower SES vs high SES? A robust exam shouldn’t be sensitive to the composition of the rater pool, and if you are only using two judges per question then you need to ensure you at least have a random judge pool. Couldn’t you try the same exam with many different scoring systems and attempt to measure whether or not the correlations with metrics of interest change? Couldn’t you take professionals who have extremely good, good, average, poor, very poor professional reviews/interpersonal skills and make them take the test without prep and see how they fare as well? Does speaking English as a foreign language affect the result? Does social class affect the result? Aren’t working class people less likely to narc on their fellow workers but more likely to be relatable to those same people, the majority of people, in the clinic? What about neurally diverse people who take just a minute longer to process information? Does unconscious bias affect the response and/or rating based on what ethnicity, gender presentation the people in the video represent? I’ve thought about this for 30 minutes and come up with at least 5 more experiments I’d want to do before I would even think of publishing on this, much less implement a nationwide admissions scheme. Does anyone actually care?

Utterly bizarre admissions trend based on moderate correlations. The authors justify the exam by saying medical schools are making a concerted effort to focus more on non academic, personal characteristics of candidates, but once again it seems that med schools have totally missed the point. Instead of thinking harder about why their existing metrics aren’t doing a good job of finding sociable, empathetic students, they’ve just unthinkingly implemented another, gameable metric into the constellation of gameable metrics they already use.

Maybe medical schools aren’t training empathetic physicians because medical school and training are a pressure cooker that forces most students to trade in their human interests and youth for proficiency at standardized testing. Maybe it’s because the best possible applicants will know this and decided to make that trade even earlier to be the most competitive they could be.

I think of Paul Farmer talking about stealing supplies from the Brigham as a resident to bring to his clinic in Haiti. Sounds like Dr. Farmer might have done poorly on CASPER but if someone said he shouldn’t be a physician they would get laughed out of the room.

If schools are interested in an exam that measures one’s ability to compose a rhetorically pleasing response that conforms to social norms in a short amount of time because it moderately correlates with another instance of composing rhetorically pleasing responses that conform to social norms in a short amount of time, then CASPeR might just be the answer they were looking for. If they want more humane and well rounded physicians, I remain unimpressed.
 
Last edited:
Lucca said:
Okay, snark aside, the original paper describing the exam in Academic Medicine claims the exam uses a 10 point Likert scale-esque system with 2 independent reviewers rating each response.

Extending the Interview to All Medical School... : Academic Medicine

Paper says on average people took 2 minutes to review each answer. That said, it’s unclear how strongly factors like typing speed or training play into the exam.

One has to ask the question: if this is a professionalism test then the scenarios must have ostensibly correct answers, or at least a narrow range of most correct possibilities. However, how is that range determined? I suspect that it is measured by one’s ability to follow rules and regulations while demonstrating concern for human beings, but who decided that was the most appropriate way to do it? Healthcare professionals? If the healthcare professionals aren’t doing a good job at that already, why should they be in a position to decide how to grade the test? What if it was scored by ethicists? By only doctors? By only nurses? People with a lot of experience as patients in healthcare systems? People of color only? Lower SES vs high SES? A robust exam shouldn’t be sensitive to the composition of the rater pool, and if you are only using two judges per question then you need to ensure you at least have a random judge pool. Couldn’t you try the same exam with many different scoring systems and attempt to measure whether or not the correlations with metrics of interest change? Couldn’t you take professionals who have extremely good, good, average, poor, very poor professional reviews/interpersonal skills and make them take the test without prep and see how they fare as well? Does speaking English as a foreign language affect the result? Does social class affect the result? Aren’t working class people less likely to narc on their fellow workers but more likely to be relatable to those same people, the majority of people, in the clinic? What about neurally diverse people who take just a minute longer to process information? Does unconscious bias affect the response and/or rating based on what ethnicity, gender presentation the people in the video represent? I’ve thought about this for 30 minutes and come up with at least 5 more experiments I’d want to do before I would even think of publishing on this, much less implement a nationwide admissions scheme. Does anyone actually care?

Utterly bizarre admissions trend based on moderate correlations. The authors justify the exam by saying medical schools are making a concerted effort to focus more on non academic, personal characteristics of candidates, but once again it seems that med schools have totally missed the point. Instead of thinking harder about why their existing metrics aren’t doing a good job of finding sociable, empathetic students, they’ve just unthinkingly implemented another, gameable metric into the constellation of gameable metrics they already use.

Maybe medical schools aren’t training empathetic physicians because medical school and training are a pressure cooker that forces most students to trade in their human interests and youth for proficiency at standardized testing. Maybe it’s because the best possible applicants will know this and decided to make that trade even earlier to be the most competitive they could be.

I think of Paul Farmer talking about stealing supplies from the Brigham as a resident to bring to his clinic in Haiti. Sounds like Dr. Farmer might have done poorly on CASPER but if someone said he shouldn’t be a physician they would get laughed out of the room.

If schools are interested in an exam that measures one’s ability to compose a rhetorically pleasing response that conforms to social norms in a short amount of time because it moderately correlates with another instance of composing rhetorically pleasing responses that conform to social norms in a short amount of time, then CASPeR might just be the answer they were looking for. If they want more humane and well rounded physicians, I remain unimpressed.
Click to expand...

This really deserves a standing ovation.

Also, the bolded part is what really concerns me about this test, for the reasons you went on to explain. Clearly they feel that there is a "right" way to respond to these questions, however the overwhelming majority of people who take this test state that they felt the "right" answer was obvious (for the most part, be sympathetic, but also be a narc, maybe offer some creative solutions to solve the problem once you've narc'd on them). Which begs the question... they must be differentiating between all of those "right" answers somehow, and I really worry that it's some nitpicky, overall worthless criteria - did they present two rather than three solutions? Did their sympathy seem sincere? Did they seem hesitant about being a narc? - I just don't see how there could really be enough variation between the majority of the answers that people provide to truly differentiate them into substantially meaningful categories.
 
Sagebrush said:
This really deserves a standing ovation.

Also, the bolded part is what really concerns me about this test, for the reasons you went on to explain. Clearly they feel that there is a "right" way to respond to these questions, however the overwhelming majority of people who take this test state that they felt the "right" answer was obvious (for the most part, be sympathetic, but also be a narc, maybe offer some creative solutions to solve the problem once you've narc'd on them). Which begs the question... they must be differentiating between all of those "right" answers somehow, and I really worry that it's some nitpicky, overall worthless criteria - did they present two rather than three solutions? Did their sympathy seem sincere? Did they seem hesitant about being a narc? - I just don't see how there could really be enough variation between the majority of the answers that people provide to truly differentiate them into substantially meaningful categories.
Click to expand...

I'm sure that is part of it. There is a different rater for every one of your prompts, and they are rating based on a metric. I am sure that they have a list of boxes they check as they read your answers. Did you address both sides? Did you demonstrate empathy while being firm? Did you follow the rules? Etc.

So the range of differences between most people's scores are probably not very large, but the whole thing is curved. So you could get a few points lower than the dude who took it in the library next to you, but he gets the top score and you're a scrub.

This is just conjecture based on what they say on their site.
 
DBC03 said:
So there's really no point in trying to prepare (even mentally) before taking it? I did try a practice exam or two. I just wonder if feeling somewhat flustered will throw me off. On the other hand, I tend to do better with a little extra adrenaline.
Click to expand...
Where did you find the practice tests please?
 
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