MD & DO cGPA 3.69, MCAT 515. DO or MD.

[ploidy]

1. cGPA and sGPA as calculated by AMCAS or AACOMAS: cGPA: ~3.69 sGPA: ~3.62
2. MCAT score(s) and breakdown: 515 (130,129,129,127)
3. State of residence or country of citizenship (if non-US): Michigan
4. Ethnicity and/or race: White Male
5. Undergraduate institution or category: MSU
6. Clinical experience (volunteer and non-volunteer): ~100 hours volunteering in ER. ~120 hours as a home health technician for individuals with disabilities
7. Research experience and productivity: No research.
8. Shadowing experience and specialties represented: ~30 hours shadowing, cardiology, and internal medicine.
9. Non-clinical volunteering: ~80-100 hours red cross, ~80 hours nursing home while in high school (not sure if it applies).
10. Other extracurricular activities (including athletics, military service, gap year activities, leadership, teaching, etc): Nothing, have held at least 1 job during the entirety of college, had 2 jobs at multiple points.
11. Relevant honors or awards:
12. Anything else not listed you think might be important

I plan on applying at the very beginning of this cycle. I will update/post a new thread at another point before applying but I would like some advice on what I can do best to strengthen my app before/during the application cycle. I probably can get my cGPA above a 3.7 after this last semester, if that makes a difference. I would like to stay in Michigan for multiple reasons. If you guys can please help me with some advice on how I should spend my time during the application cycle and before, and some feedback on my chances at getting some interviews from Michigan schools. If needed I will gladly leave my state to go to medical school, but I would just prefer to stay.

Thank you for your time.

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[Someonewhowasborn]

Unless you are willing to apply to low tier schools, I would take a year to improve your extracurricular experiences. Your clinical hours are too low, and you may want to do some more non-clinical volunteering. Looking at your application, I don't see someone who has taken the time to delve into healthcare and show commitment and passion for medicine.

 

[ploidy]

Understood, I appreciate the feedback. Can you elaborate on what you mean by low tier schools, please? I would be perfectly content with going to any of my state schools. As far as expanding my EC's, what exactly do you suggest?

Edit: Also my degree is a BS in Human Biology

 

[Mr.Smile12]

1. cGPA and sGPA as calculated by AMCAS or AACOMAS: cGPA: ~3.69 sGPA: ~3.62
2. MCAT score(s) and breakdown: 515 (130,129,129,127)
3. State of residence or country of citizenship (if non-US): Michigan
4. Ethnicity and/or race: White Male
5. Undergraduate institution or category: MSU
6. Clinical experience (volunteer and non-volunteer): ~100 hours volunteering in ER. ~120 hours as a home health technician for individuals with disabilities
7. Research experience and productivity: No research.
8. Shadowing experience and specialties represented: ~30 hours shadowing, cardiology, and internal medicine.
9. Non-clinical volunteering: ~80-100 hours red cross, ~80 hours nursing home while in high school (not sure if it applies).
10. Other extracurricular activities (including athletics, military service, gap year activities, leadership, teaching, etc): Nothing, have held at least 1 job during the entirety of college, had 2 jobs at multiple points.
11. Relevant honors or awards:
12. Anything else not listed you think might be important

I plan on applying at the very beginning of this cycle. I will update/post a new thread at another point before applying but I would like some advice on what I can do best to strengthen my app before/during the application cycle. I probably can get my cGPA above a 3.7 after this last semester, if that makes a difference. I would like to stay in Michigan for multiple reasons. If you guys can please help me with some advice on how I should spend my time during the application cycle and before, and some feedback on my chances at getting some interviews from Michigan schools. If needed I will gladly leave my state to go to medical school, but I would just prefer to stay.

Thank you for your time.

I'll be specific and say the shadowing hours are low. Clinical experience otherwise seems okay, especially when it comes to interaction with vulnerable populations (disabled, elderly). Describe your non-clinical Red Cross volunteering and nursing home experience (though you can't really count it if it's in high school, but it could be disclosed in essays). Did you have to work full-time to afford going to university?

 

[ploidy]

Red Cross was in college, I am still doing it here and there, I work both the blood drive donor registration and I drive the trucks with the blood to the warehouses. I worked about 30-40 hours a week most weeks during undergrad, but less during exam periods. Every summer I've worked 40+ in addition to getting clinical experience when I could and volunteering. I did have to work to afford basic living necessities.

I know shadowing is low, and I am currently working with multiple programs through my school and local hospitals to shadow more. That was my plan from now until May is to get as much shadowing and experience as I can. But, now I am a little afraid to apply in May, do you think that's still a good idea?

In addition, I should have added I have 2 science professors that said they would write me a LOR, one I had multiple classes with and went to her office hours multiple times I feel like that will be a really good letter. I am working on getting a doctor to write me a third LOR.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Red Cross was in college, I am still doing it here and there, I work both the blood drive donor registration and I drive the trucks with the blood to the warehouses. I worked about 30-40 hours a week most weeks during undergrad, but less during exam periods. Every summer I've worked 40+ in addition to getting clinical experience when I could and volunteering. I did have to work to afford basic living necessities.

I know shadowing is low, and I am currently working with multiple programs through my school and local hospitals to shadow more. That was my plan from now until May is to get as much shadowing and experience as I can. But, now I am a little afraid to apply in May, do you think that's still a good idea?

In addition, I should have added I have 2 science professors that said they would write me a LOR, one I had multiple classes with and went to her office hours multiple times I feel like that will be a really good letter. I am working on getting a doctor to write me a third LOR.

I'll let others who have resources advise you about a school list. I think your GPA/MCAT puts you in a good position to apply near the start of the application cycle. All in-state Michigan schools should be in play so -- provided the COVID-19 situation doesn't prevent health professions recruitment fairs from being scheduled this month -- reach out to the admissions recruiters at all the schools to get a better insight and more confidence on applying. I would be consistent in adding more shadowing opportunities, but if I surmise your experiences from what you've disclosed, you have had patient-facing opportunities that should help you. Make sure everything else is in order and ready to go with your letters.

 

[ploidy]

I'll let others who have resources advise you about a school list. I think your GPA/MCAT puts you in a good position to apply near the start of the application cycle. All in-state Michigan schools should be in play so -- provided the COVID-19 situation doesn't prevent health professions recruitment fairs from being scheduled this month -- reach out to the admissions recruiters at all the schools to get a better insight and more confidence on applying. I would be consistent in adding more shadowing opportunities, but if I surmise your experiences from what you've disclosed, you have had patient-facing opportunities that should help you. Make sure everything else is in order and ready to go with your letters.

Thank you. That is exactly the issue I am having right now, I had multiple shadowing opportunities lined up but they were canceled due to the COVID-19 situation. If the worst-case scenario I cannot get more shadowing experience between now and May should I still apply?

If I apply in May and continue to do shadowing and other volunteer opportunities can I continuously add that to the application?

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Thank you. That is exactly the issue I am having right now, I had multiple shadowing opportunities lined up but they were canceled due to the COVID-19 situation. If the worst-case scenario I cannot get more shadowing experience between now and May should I still apply?

If I apply in May and continue to do shadowing and other volunteer opportunities can I continuously add that to the application?

Unfortunately there's probably nothing you can do other than be mindful that the health care system and safety net are going to be tested and stressed. You can apply and try to add during the application process, but keep in mind there is no known timeline to return to any normalcy. There may be a new process for hospital or clinic volunteering in the near future as a result of this crisis, so keep connected with the physicians you intend to shadow.

 

[m1redsox]

I actually think you’d be fine this cycle. I only had ~50 clinical hours and have gotten into multiple MD and DO programs (ORM 3.82/515). I’d focus most on your non-clinical volunteering and shadowing. You should be fine for In-state places like MSU, Wayne State, Oakland, and CMU because of your higher MCAT (in comparison to the schools). I’d also add some low-stat, OOS-friendly schools like Wake, Drexel, Temple, Quinnipiac, Toledo-type schools. If you want to take a year to beef up your app, go for it, but I would apply this cycle and then continue building those clinical (and shadow) hours over the next year as well as non-clinical volunteering hours in case I didn’t get in and needed to reapply. Keep in mind, if you simply take a gap year to improve your app, you might make yourself a lot more competitive for the better schools in MI, whereas if you apply this cycle and get in outside MI, you’re prettymuch obligated to go, even if you are not as excited about the school or leaving the state. If you want to make it sure fire this cycle, I don’t think you’ll have any problems with the in-state DO schools.

 

[ploidy]

I actually think you’d be fine this cycle. I only had ~50 clinical hours and have gotten into multiple MD and DO programs (ORM 3.82/515). I’d focus most on your non-clinical volunteering and shadowing. You should be fine for In-state places like MSU, Wayne State, Oakland, and CMU because of your higher MCAT (in comparison to the schools). I’d also add some low-stat, OOS-friendly schools like Wake, Drexel, Temple, Quinnipiac, Toledo-type schools. If you want to take a year to beef up your app, go for it, but I would apply this cycle and then continue building those clinical (and shadow) hours over the next year as well as non-clinical volunteering hours in case I didn’t get in and needed to reapply. Keep in mind, if you simply take a gap year to improve your app, you might make yourself a lot more competitive for the better schools in MI, whereas if you apply this cycle and get in outside MI, you’re prettymuch obligated to go, even if you are not as excited about the school or leaving the state. If you want to make it sure fire this cycle, I don’t think you’ll have any problems with the in-state DO schools.

Thanks for the advice. Can I add hours and experience to the application as I go, or is it a one time only no changes type application? I would love to go to the DO school in MI so that's not a problem, and I do not want to take a year off at all. If I get some sort of clinical job or shadowing experience in June/July would that be relevant to this application?

Thanks for all the help.

 

[m1redsox]

Thanks for the advice. Can I add hours and experience to the application as I go, or is it a one time only no changes type application? I would love to go to the DO school in MI so that's not a problem, and I do not want to take a year off at all. If I get some sort of clinical job or shadowing experience in June/July would that be relevant to this application?

Thanks for all the help.

No, you can't change the essays or hours after the application has been verified and submitted. You can send an update, but many schools just take those with a grain of salt (if they even look at them-- many of my in-state CA schools don't). On top of that, most schools only want updates for really significant changes like a publication or prestigious award of some kind. So, in essence, it really is kind of a "one time only no changes type application". Getting shadowing or clinical exp in June/July probably won't help much either because you should have already submitted your total hours in your primary at the beginning of June and should begin writing secondaries in July. Potentially you could speak about your new experiences in your secondaries, but I think a lot of schools just look at the numbers reported in your primary. If you don't want to take a year off at all, apply early (June primary, July secondaries), apply widely (25+ MD, 5ish DO), and apply correctly (only realistic schools -- I wouldn't even apply to U MI if I were you considering your low GPA, below avg MCAT, and lack of research, which are all crucial for a T10 like Michigan). Since you have already taken the MCAT, go crazy during March, April, and May to find more shadowing (20+ hours), non-clinical volunteering (50+ hours -- high school stuff doesn't count), and continue with your clinical experiences if you can (no specific hour quota as you've already met the general 150-hour guideline, but more hours never hurt).

 

[ploidy]

No, you can't change the essays or hours after the application has been verified and submitted. You can send an update, but many schools just take those with a grain of salt (if they even look at them-- many of my in-state CA schools don't). On top of that, most schools only want updates for really significant changes like a publication or prestigious award of some kind. So, in essence, it really is kind of a "one time only no changes type application". Getting shadowing or clinical exp in June/July probably won't help much either because you should have already submitted your total hours in your primary at the beginning of June and should begin writing secondaries in July. Potentially you could speak about your new experiences in your secondaries, but I think a lot of schools just look at the numbers reported in your primary. If you don't want to take a year off at all, apply early (June primary, July secondaries), apply widely (25+ MD, 5ish DO), and apply correctly (only realistic schools -- I wouldn't even apply to U MI if I were you considering your low GPA, below avg MCAT, and lack of research, which are all crucial for a T10 like Michigan). Since you have already taken the MCAT, go crazy during March, April, and May to find more shadowing (20+ hours), non-clinical volunteering (50+ hours -- high school stuff doesn't count), and continue with your clinical experiences if you can (no specific hour quota as you've already met the general 150-hour guideline, but more hours never hurt).

Thank you for the response. As far as U of M I thought the average applicant that gets accepted has a 513 on the MCAT, but given the other points you brought up do you still feel as if it would be a waste to apply there? Also, do you think I should apply in May, or take the year off and beef up my application? Given the situation with COVID-19 it's been really hard to find any shadowing opportunities.

 

[m1redsox]

Thank you for the response. As far as U of M I thought the average applicant that gets accepted has a 513 on the MCAT, but given the other points you brought up do you still feel as if it would be a waste to apply there? Also, do you think I should apply in May, or take the year off and beef up my application? Given the situation with COVID-19 it's been really hard to find any shadowing opportunities.

U of M has an average MCAT of 518. You should buy access to MSAR. It's only $28, and it has the most accurate average MCAT and GPAs by school. It's very useful for deciding which schools to apply to. There's nothing wrong with applying to a reach school, but I would've saved time and money if I hadn't applied to UCLA and UCSF (my in-state UMichigan equivalents).
As far as applying this cycle, I think you could still do it if you tried really hard. I don't think it should be too hard to find 20 shadowing hours. When I applied, I got over 70 hours just in the month of May and hospitals don't close for corona virus. Anyways, I don't think it hurts to apply this cycle unless you are going to be bummed about going to a low-tier school. I still think you have a decent shot at schools like MSU, Wayne State, and Oakland. Just be sure you have over 150 non-clinical volunteer hours before applying.

 

[ploidy]

U of M has an average MCAT of 518. You should buy access to MSAR. It's only $28, and it has the most accurate average MCAT and GPAs by school. It's very useful for deciding which schools to apply to. There's nothing wrong with applying to a reach school, but I would've saved time and money if I hadn't applied to UCLA and UCSF (my in-state UMichigan equivalents).
As far as applying this cycle, I think you could still do it if you tried really hard. I don't think it should be too hard to find 20 shadowing hours. When I applied, I got over 70 hours just in the month of May and hospitals don't close for corona virus. Anyways, I don't think it hurts to apply this cycle unless you are going to be bummed about going to a low-tier school. I still think you have a decent shot at schools like MSU, Wayne State, and Oakland. Just be sure you have over 150 non-clinical volunteer hours before applying.

Okay, that's good advice thank you. I will do whatever will be the best for the application, so it sounds like shadowing and non-clinical volunteering now until June is the best path. Also, does the MSAR have statistics not available elsewhere, or more accurate statistics? From the U of M website: https://medicine.umich.edu/medschoo...chool/files/assets/Incoming Class of 2019.pdf it says average MCAT to be 90% and I thought that roughly translates to a ~513.

 

[m1redsox]

Okay, that's good advice thank you. I will do whatever will be the best for the application, so it sounds like shadowing and non-clinical volunteering now until June is the best path. Also, does the MSAR have statistics not available elsewhere, or more accurate statistics? From the U of M website: https://medicine.umich.edu/medschool/sites/medicine.umich.edu.medschool/files/assets/Incoming Class of 2019.pdf it says average MCAT to be 90% and I thought that roughly translates to a ~513.

Those are just the matriculants' averages, which is always lower than the accepted average because people with higher MCATs will go somewhere better like UPenn, Stanford, JHU, etc. MSAR has the official AAMC data so it's the most accurate. But like I said, if you want to apply there, go for it! You might as well! I just didn't think the rest of your app was very competitive.

 

[ploidy]

Those are just the matriculants' averages, which is always lower than the accepted average because people with higher MCATs will go somewhere better like UPenn, Stanford, JHU, etc. MSAR has the official AAMC data so it's the most accurate. But like I said, if you want to apply there, go for it! You might as well! I just didn't think the rest of your app was very competitive.

So the statistics they publish are for the entering class, not including everyone who was offered acceptance? I apologize if this information can be found elsewhere, but does the MSAR have the acceptance/matriculate statistics separate?

 

[m1redsox]

So the statistics they publish are for the entering class, not including everyone who was offered acceptance? I apologize if this information can be found elsewhere, but does the MSAR have the acceptance/matriculate statistics separate?

Yes, you can separate the two on MSAR.

 

[ploidy]

Yes, you can separate the two on MSAR.

Thank you very much for your time and help, I'll purchase MSAR now.

If possible, @Goro can I have your insight on my application?

 

[imbesrs]

I would get 20-30 more shadowing hrs in primary care. Build your EC's by the time app cylce comes and full send

 

[Goro]

1. cGPA and sGPA as calculated by AMCAS or AACOMAS: cGPA: ~3.69 sGPA: ~3.62
2. MCAT score(s) and breakdown: 515 (130,129,129,127)
3. State of residence or country of citizenship (if non-US): Michigan
4. Ethnicity and/or race: White Male
5. Undergraduate institution or category: MSU
6. Clinical experience (volunteer and non-volunteer): ~100 hours volunteering in ER. ~120 hours as a home health technician for individuals with disabilities
7. Research experience and productivity: No research.
8. Shadowing experience and specialties represented: ~30 hours shadowing, cardiology, and internal medicine.
9. Non-clinical volunteering: ~80-100 hours red cross, ~80 hours nursing home while in high school (not sure if it applies).
10. Other extracurricular activities (including athletics, military service, gap year activities, leadership, teaching, etc): Nothing, have held at least 1 job during the entirety of college, had 2 jobs at multiple points.
11. Relevant honors or awards:
12. Anything else not listed you think might be important

I plan on applying at the very beginning of this cycle. I will update/post a new thread at another point before applying but I would like some advice on what I can do best to strengthen my app before/during the application cycle. I probably can get my cGPA above a 3.7 after this last semester, if that makes a difference. I would like to stay in Michigan for multiple reasons. If you guys can please help me with some advice on how I should spend my time during the application cycle and before, and some feedback on my chances at getting some interviews from Michigan schools. If needed I will gladly leave my state to go to medical school, but I would just prefer to stay.

Thank you for your time.

Your ECs are lethally weak. What happened in high school stays in high school.

 

[ploidy]

Your ECs are lethally weak. What happened in high school stays in high school.

Understood, do you agree with the above that the best use of my time is to get more shadowing experience and non-clinical volunteering? If I do that do you recommend I apply at the start of the next cycle (May)? That gives roughly 2 months to boost EC's, is that enough time in your eyes to get where I need to? I am not looking to only get into top schools or anything like that, even though I'd like to, I would be ecstatic to attend any US medical school, but preferably my in-state Michigan schools.

Thank you for your response.

 

[ploidy]

@Faha Could I get your feedback, please?

 

[Faha]

@Faha Could I get your feedback, please?

Add another 20 hours of physician shadowing. More non clinical volunteering hours would also help. I suggest these schools:
Michigan State
Central Michigan
Wayne State
U Michigan
Western Michigan
Oakland Beaumont
Toledo
Medical College Wisconsin
Rosalind Franklin
TCU-UNT
NOVA MD
George Washington
Drexel
Temple
Jefferson
Penn State
New York Medical College
Hofstra
Albany
Vermont
Quinnipiac
Tufts

 

[ploidy]

Thank you @Faha for the list! I do plan on applying to all Michigan schools, with my stats will applying to 22 schools be enough you think?

 

[Faha]

Thank you @Faha for the list! I do plan on applying to all Michigan schools, with my stats will applying to 22 schools be enough you think?

Yes.

 

[ploidy]

Another question:

Does the fact that I had 3 jobs for half of my undergrad, and 2 jobs off and on for the rest make an impact on my lacking EC's? I worked at least 60 hours a week in my first year, and 30-40 hours every year after that.

 

[ploidy]

Also additional update:

While filling out the application I realized I underestimated my hours for non-clinical volunteering and overestimated my clinical. I have about 160 hours of non-clinical volunteering, 150 hours of clinical volunteering, 192 hours of clinical (healthcare) paid work. I also have about ~14,000 hours of non-healthcare employment, 8000 of that from a leadership role where I was a manager (not sure if relevant). I have also been working on shadowing and should be able to complete another ~30 hours by the end the July.

@Faha @Goro : Does that change your perspective on my application at all? Do you still think my EC's are lethally weak, and by that do you mean weak for all schools, my in-state or the average? Also, does that change the schools you think I should apply to this cycle? I am not concerned with going to a prestigious school, I just want to be a doctor MD or DO.

Thank you for your time.

 

[Faha]

Your ECs are fine for the schools I listed. You can apply this cycle but do so no later than July and complete your secondaries by August.

 

[Goro]

1. cGPA and sGPA as calculated by AMCAS or AACOMAS: cGPA: ~3.69 sGPA: ~3.62
2. MCAT score(s) and breakdown: 515 (130,129,129,127)
3. State of residence or country of citizenship (if non-US): Michigan
4. Ethnicity and/or race: White Male
5. Undergraduate institution or category: MSU
6. Clinical experience (volunteer and non-volunteer): ~100 hours volunteering in ER. ~120 hours as a home health technician for individuals with disabilities
7. Research experience and productivity: No research.
8. Shadowing experience and specialties represented: ~30 hours shadowing, cardiology, and internal medicine.
9. Non-clinical volunteering: ~80-100 hours red cross, ~80 hours nursing home while in high school (not sure if it applies).
10. Other extracurricular activities (including athletics, military service, gap year activities, leadership, teaching, etc): Nothing, have held at least 1 job during the entirety of college, had 2 jobs at multiple points.
11. Relevant honors or awards:
12. Anything else not listed you think might be important

I plan on applying at the very beginning of this cycle. I will update/post a new thread at another point before applying but I would like some advice on what I can do best to strengthen my app before/during the application cycle. I probably can get my cGPA above a 3.7 after this last semester, if that makes a difference. I would like to stay in Michigan for multiple reasons. If you guys can please help me with some advice on how I should spend my time during the application cycle and before, and some feedback on my chances at getting some interviews from Michigan schools. If needed I will gladly leave my state to go to medical school, but I would just prefer to stay.

Thank you for your time.

Get in some more nonclinical volunteering. Meals on Wheels is doable, and we always need election poll workers, because that was a thing normally done by retirees.

With your app, I don't see a need for DO.

I suggest:
ALL MI schools
USF Morsani (maybe)
U IA
U ILL
U MA
Mayo (maybe)
Case (maybe)
NYU-LI
U WI
U Cincy
U CO
U VM
OH State
UCF
Miami
St. Louis
Albany
Rochester
Rosy Franklin
NYMC
EVMS
Wake Forest
Jefferson
Creighton
Tulane
Seton Hall
MCW
Loyola
Hofstra
Tufts
Uniformed Services University/Hebert (just be aware of the military service commitment)
Nova MD

 

[ploidy]

@Faha : I plan on submitting my primary AMCAS application next week, and my AACOMAS today because MSUCOM starts to receive applications mid June. Given the verification timeline, that's fine for both right?

@Goro : Thank you for the list and the suggestions. I just applied to my local meals on wheels, but how do you think I should add this to my applications? Like someone on this thread already pointed out, schools take updates 'with a grain of salt. Because I was going to submit my primaries today and early next week, will that be an issue to add experiences? Or would the applications be stronger if I waited to submit until I received an approval from them to volunteer and have an idea of how many hours I will be doing it per week?

Again thank you both for all the help it's priceless.

 

[Faha]

A June application is early for all MD and DO schools.