Chance for SGU?

[Rypto]

Stats:

Overall and Science GPA: 3.4-3.5
MCAT: 23 (7/6/10)
Great extracurriculars (volunteering, research, publications)

I recently got my MCAT score back and scored lower than I had hoped, which prompted me to make this post. I reaaaalllyy want to get into SGU as it is my top choice school. I am applying for an August 2015 seat. I know my GPA is a little above average for SGU, but my MCAT is 4 points lower, which is a little worrisome. What are my chances at SGU? Should I retake the MCAT in January or just apply in December?

Thanks in advance.

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[deleted480308]

Are you american?

 

[Rypto]

Yes I'm a US citizen

 

[deleted480308]

Then don't go to sgu, off shore should not be a first choice. You have a shot at DO schools

 

[Rypto]

I have made the decision to go to the carib after hours of research and careful consideration. It was not an easy decision, but it's already made. But I would like help with the question I posed in my first post

 

[Medstart108]

Retake the MCAT, did you really do your best? You only got a 6 on the verbal, surely you could improve that score to an 8 at least? Same with the physics.

 

[BigEinstein]

I know a girl who got in 2 weeks ago with a 20 and 3.2 but for January class though.

 

[edgerock24]

I have made the decision to go to the carib after hours of research and careful consideration. It was not an easy decision, but it's already made. But I would like help with the question I posed in my first post

You've made a dumb decision. Shoot for DO schools instead.

 

[deleted480308]

I have made the decision to go to the carib after hours of research and careful consideration. It was not an easy decision, but it's already made. But I would like help with the question I posed in my first post

I know this is annoying, but you are wrong. We are trying to help you

 

[BigEinstein]

Y'all need to leave him alone! Like come on, he already made his decision and has done research. Believe it or not there will still be Carib students matching and that could be him. Am not going to respond to anyone who replies me

 

[bedevilled ben]

If you're not dead-set on SGU:
I'll echo what others are saying, with full disclosure that I am myself an SGU student. If you want to set yourself up for the best chance at getting a residency, take some time off to study hard, retake the MCAT, and reapply for DO. Your GPA is competitive and the MCAT is the easiest and fastest part of your application to improve. A few months of study could save you years of heartache and tens of thousands of dollars.

If you've already decided to go to SGU:
You should be fine with your current stats, I would go ahead and apply.

 

[Skip Intro]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...what-are-my-chances-thread-read-this.1086829/

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/what-category-are-you-in.1078237/

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...attending-a-caribbean-medical-school.1093828/

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/why-is-the-caribbean-is-a-good-decision.1082017/

There were also five similar threads that came up below with the exact same thread title.

Do your homework. If your mind is already made up, nothing anyone says here will persuade or dissuade you. So, just apply and be done with it. No need to waste a lot of well-intentioned people's time look for hollow and meaningless (and ultimately valueless) reassurances.

-Skip

 

[iliveinmyguitar]

Holy **** bro, I have the same exact stats as you. Even the Mcat breakdown. At first I thought I was reading one of my older posts accidentally and had to double check the name lol. Anyways, clearly im in the same boat as you. I took my mcat in september and got the 23 but since I scored 6 points lower than my average on the AAMC practice tests I decided to retake it and am scheduled for this saturday. If I improve on the mcat I'm going to try shooting for some of the DO schools in the US but my biggest issue with that is waiting a second year before starting med school. I would be getting my MCAT beginning of January and that would already be too late for this cycle. But it seems like staying in the country is more important than starting school asap. Im still trying to make up my mind and this re-take will probably settle it for me. If I don't improve on the MCAT, at least above a 25, I'm going to apply to SGU the second I get my score back.

I recently spoke with one of my friends from college who didnt take a gap year and started SGU right after college. He said he loves it and that it was the best decision he ever made as far as experience goes. He also stayed in touch with our other friend who is in a USMD school and he said that their curriculums are identical. But it all means nothing until you actually secure a residency.

Oh and another thing, I think youre too late to take the old MCAT :/ I was trying to reschedule mine from december 6th like a month ago and the only place open was Guam, Hawaii. As much as that would have been a great post mcat vacation some people just can't make that trip. lol Good luck brotha!

 

[Rypto]

Wow @iliveinmyguitar it's good to finally hear from someone who is in the same scenario I am in. I guess we are choosing different paths though, but I don't see either one as being right or wrong. It is just personal preference.

1) First of all, SDN is filled with these premeds and first year med students bashing on international schools just from what they hear from others. There is little truth to half the things these people post on here. I have talked to so many doctors and medical students from both USMD, USDO, and Carib and they all have said the same thing. Yes, it is a little harder to get a residency when in the Carib. But it is totally doable with hard work. And you're telling me that you're not going to be working hard in a US med school? Just put in time and it'll happen. SGU has a 90% residency match rate for a reason. It is because they train you well and provide an environment in which you can work hard and succeed. I am so sick of people on this forum blindly discouraging people without any first hand experience themselves (as you can clearly see from the first few posts above).

2) Another big reason for me is to save a gap year. This is partly because of the MD/DO merger taking place in 2020 and largely because of personal reasons. Starting med school in 2015 versus in 2016 prevents me from being affected by the merger (as nobody really knows how it will end up affecting international students and DO students). Also, I'm trying to graduate medical school and become a doctor sooner than later. I don't know about others, but the sooner I can finish medical school, the sooner I can get on with other things in my life (starting a family, other hobbies, whatever). It doesn't make sense for me to waste a year for a slightly higher chance at a residency. Just work hard and it will happen regardless. I know it's not a big deal to waste a year for most people, but it is for me.

3) The reason why I am simply applying without the retake is exactly what you said. I checked and there are no seats left for the January MCAT in the US except for Hawaii. And I am not about to spend over a thousand dollars for a retake which I have little time to prepare for anyways. The other option is to take the new MCAT, which I know basically nothing about other than it is quite different and much longer. So for me it makes sense to just apply now with my current MCAT, and in the case I do not get accepted by SGU, I will consider taking the new MCAT and applying next cycle.

I know I am probably upsetting a lot of people who live in this small bubble where the only acceptable thing to do is attend a US medical school, but sorry I'm not sorry. This is just my mentality and we will see where it gets me. All I know is I will be working my butt off regardless of where I attend medical school and hopefully I will be rewarded with a residency. Hope this helps with your situation also and good luck to you.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Wow @iliveinmyguitar it's good to finally hear from someone who is in the same scenario I am in. I guess we are choosing different paths though, but I don't see either one as being right or wrong. It is just personal preference.

1) First of all, SDN is filled with these premeds and first year med students bashing on international schools just from what they hear from others. There is little truth to half the things these people post on here. I have talked to so many doctors and medical students from both USMD, USDO, and Carib and they all have said the same thing. Yes, it is a little harder to get a residency when in the Carib. But it is totally doable with hard work. And you're telling me that you're not going to be working hard in a US med school? Just put in time and it'll happen. SGU has a 90% residency match rate for a reason. It is because they train you well and provide an environment in which you can work hard and succeed. I am so sick of people on this forum blindly discouraging people without any first hand experience themselves (as you can clearly see from the first few posts above).

2) Another big reason for me is to save a gap year. This is partly because of the MD/DO merger taking place in 2020 and largely because of personal reasons. Starting med school in 2015 versus in 2016 prevents me from being affected by the merger (as nobody really knows how it will end up affecting international students and DO students). Also, I'm trying to graduate medical school and become a doctor sooner than later. I don't know about others, but the sooner I can finish medical school, the sooner I can get on with other things in my life (starting a family, other hobbies, whatever). It doesn't make sense for me to waste a year for a slightly higher chance at a residency. Just work hard and it will happen regardless. I know it's not a big deal to waste a year for most people, but it is for me.

3) The reason why I am simply applying without the retake is exactly what you said. I checked and there are no seats left for the January MCAT in the US except for Hawaii. And I am not about to spend over a thousand dollars for a retake which I have little time to prepare for anyways. The other option is to take the new MCAT, which I know basically nothing about other than it is quite different and much longer. So for me it makes sense to just apply now with my current MCAT, and in the case I do not get accepted by SGU, I will consider taking the new MCAT and applying next cycle.

I know I am probably upsetting a lot of people who live in this small bubble where the only acceptable thing to do is attend a US medical school, but sorry I'm not sorry. This is just my mentality and we will see where it gets me. All I know is I will be working my butt off regardless of where I attend medical school and hopefully I will be rewarded with a residency. Hope this helps with your situation also and good luck to you.

1. I don't think SGU has a 90% match rate... What you should look at is how many students that are enrolled in the first year of medical school end up matching after their fourth year of medical school. For USMD and USDO schools, that number is around 97%. Can you make it from the Caribbean and SGU? Yes. Will it be harder? Much. Will your choices of residencies be limited? Absolutely. Would you have more choices from a USMD/USDO school? Absolutely.

2. The merger will only help DO students. This shouldn't really be a reason for when to start medical school. Yes, I understand you don't want to wait. Many people have been in your shoes and many of them wished they could take it all back and wait that year. If you're worried about a gap year. A gap year before med school is much better than a gap year after med school...

3. Yes, the MCAT will be different. Schools will also have a bit of trouble on interpreting the new results. I see this as a wash.

So no, you aren't upsetting people, its your life. Do whatever you feel is best for you. You are ignoring alot of experience of people who have been in your shoes on here. This is not a small bubble. This is people who have experienced it. But you assume you'll just be the one to prove everyone wrong. You'll do it. Maybe you will. Maybe you'll rack up huge debts with nothing to show for it. Maybe you'll end up trying for residency spots for 3 or 4 years in a row. The chances of this happening at a US school is low. The chances of this happening at SGU is much higher.

Best of luck...

 

[deleted480308]

Of students who entered St. George’s program in fall 2009, 10 percent dropped out, 1 percent transferred and 65 percent made it to graduation in four years. Twenty percent more took five years and an additional 4 percent took six or more years.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/03/education/edlife/second-chance-med-school.html?_r=0

We're trying to help you, do what you want but don't say no one told you

 

[Skip Intro]

I know I am probably upsetting a lot of people who live in this small bubble where the only acceptable thing to do is attend a US medical school, but sorry I'm not sorry. This is just my mentality and we will see where it gets me.

So, I guess some of us are trying to understand why you posted here in the first place? Just apply. There is nothing to lose. No need to wait. No need to re-take the MCAT. Just apply. What's the worst that can happen?

What was the purpose of your post? None of us knows you IRL, so it's not possible to upset us. We're not emotionally invested in your decision. Just hoping to help you (and others who might be reading this) see the whole picture.

-Skip

 

[Rypto]

So, I guess some of us are trying to understand why you posted here in the first place? Just apply. There is nothing to lose. No need to wait. No need to re-take the MCAT. Just apply. What's the worst that can happen?

What was the purpose of your post? None of us knows you IRL, so it's not possible to upset us. We're not emotionally invested in your decision. Just hoping to help you (and others who might be reading this) see the whole picture.

-Skip

I did not see any SGU-specific admission stats, just averages, which led to make this post. But it seems that it is possible to get in with a 23 MCAT so thank you all for your advice. My goal with the second post was to simply provide more insight to @iliveinmyguitar and others who are in our situation. It is difficult to find people who are in my complicated scenario so this forum is the best way to reach out to them.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

I did not see any SGU-specific admission stats, just averages, which led to make this post. But it seems that it is possible to get in with a 23 MCAT so thank you all for your advice. My goal with the second post was to simply provide more insight to @iliveinmyguitar and others who are in our situation. It is difficult to find people who are in my complicated scenario so this forum is the best way to reach out to them.

Based on your posts, I'm not quite sure how your situation is that complicated. Like Skip said, perhaps its your own life stuff that you haven't talked about, but the story you have shown here is actually pretty common.

 

[iliveinmyguitar]

Why do you guys think these kids are dropping out?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the reason some kids are dropping out has to do with their attitude about becoming a doctor in general. If they haven't gone through the appropriate rigors of pre-med life chances are they are deluding them selves into thinking they will succeed in med school unless they seriously undergo some serious mental re-framing as far as what real work looks, smells, and tastes like. For example, kids that spent no more than a couple of hours in the library to pass a cell molec exam, in med school, will be realizing that its not as easy as they originally thought. I know I'm probably over exaggerating but I find it hard to believe that kids that are putting in the work and are intelligent will drop out.

At the ER where I work I've spoken to a lot of SGU students doing their rotations and for some reason the most common advise I've gotten from them was. "Make sure you really REALLY want to be a doctor". As if they were expecting it to be different/easier when they were initially setting out for medicine.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

Once you fail step1 once as carib student, you are done kiddo!

 

[darklabel]

Wow @iliveinmyguitar it's good to finally hear from someone who is in the same scenario I am in. I guess we are choosing different paths though, but I don't see either one as being right or wrong. It is just personal preference.

1) First of all, SDN is filled with these premeds and first year med students bashing on international schools just from what they hear from others. There is little truth to half the things these people post on here. I have talked to so many doctors and medical students from both USMD, USDO, and Carib and they all have said the same thing. Yes, it is a little harder to get a residency when in the Carib. But it is totally doable with hard work. And you're telling me that you're not going to be working hard in a US med school? Just put in time and it'll happen. SGU has a 90% residency match rate for a reason. It is because they train you well and provide an environment in which you can work hard and succeed. I am so sick of people on this forum blindly discouraging people without any first hand experience themselves (as you can clearly see from the first few posts above).

If you did your research then you read over this document: http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uplo...tional-Medical-Graduates-Revised.PDF-File.pdf and then read the AAMC latest post about Class of 2018 and how there are more students erolled than ever before and since 2006 16 new medical schools have opened up in MD alone: https://www.aamc.org/newsroom/newsreleases/411636/10282014.html

You won't just have it "a little harder in the carrib" but it will be a lot more difficult. You scored a 23 on the MCAT, what if you scored below average or just average on Step 1? While for a USMD and DO there are tons of options available, you're stuck with the very real possibility of not being able to match at all and scrambling for anything. I'm not trying to dissuade you but you're just throwing fake stats up like "90% matched" and I don't want others reading to be misinformed.

2) Another big reason for me is to save a gap year. This is partly because of the MD/DO merger taking place in 2020 and largely because of personal reasons. Starting med school in 2015 versus in 2016 prevents me from being affected by the merger (as nobody really knows how it will end up affecting international students and DO students). Also, I'm trying to graduate medical school and become a doctor sooner than later. I don't know about others, but the sooner I can finish medical school, the sooner I can get on with other things in my life (starting a family, other hobbies, whatever). It doesn't make sense for me to waste a year for a slightly higher chance at a residency. Just work hard and it will happen regardless. I know it's not a big deal to waste a year for most people, but it is for me.

You have a 3.45 GPA, which isn't bad and all you have holding you back is the MCAT. If you buckle down and do really well, then you can increase your chances of getting into a USMD school, which give you much more possibilities on a variety of specialties. And its just not "slightly higher chance at residency". Compare the match lists of your state schools and lower tier schools with that of SGU and you'll notice a difference.

3) The reason why I am simply applying without the retake is exactly what you said. I checked and there are no seats left for the January MCAT in the US except for Hawaii. And I am not about to spend over a thousand dollars for a retake which I have little time to prepare for anyways. The other option is to take the new MCAT, which I know basically nothing about other than it is quite different and much longer. So for me it makes sense to just apply now with my current MCAT, and in the case I do not get accepted by SGU, I will consider taking the new MCAT and applying next cycle.

$1,000 is better than ~200k in nondischargable debt.

In depth article about Carrib schools which seems pretty unbiased: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/03/education/edlife/second-chance-med-school.html?_r=0

Bloomberg about a guy with over 400k debt, unmatched and basically screwed: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...al-school-rejects-as-taxpayers-fund-debt.html

I know I am probably upsetting a lot of people who live in this small bubble where the only acceptable thing to do is attend a US medical school, but sorry I'm not sorry. This is just my mentality and we will see where it gets me. All I know is I will be working my butt off regardless of where I attend medical school and hopefully I will be rewarded with a residency. Hope this helps with your situation also and good luck to you.

[/QUOTE]

No one is upset; frankly no one personally cares. People can succeed the Carrib but I only recommend go Carrib if you have an irredeemable GPA (<2.8) and/or taken multiple MCATs and still can't get above 28+. People here just trying to help since you're close enough to be competitive for a US school that a year or two is trivial when it can help you open the door to nearly any specialty you want. I talked to an anesthesiology resident at a good university program who told me to do whatever it takes to get into a US school because with the amount of work he put in and his high board scores, he could've gone a lot further as a US grad. It's ultimately up to you and no one here will be affected by your decision or anyone else going to the Carrib.


To answer your original question, your stats are fine for SGU and I know people who have gotten in with an 18 MCAT and similar GPA.

 

[bedevilled ben]

Why do you guys think these kids are dropping out?

Lots of reasons, some good and some bad. We lost a few people the first few days, because either Grenada or medical school is not what they expected. Living there is hard. Living to study is hard. Not having any social support, having to make new friends, learning to navigate a new culture, not having the amenities you're used to, having to find new things to do for relaxation, not being able to buy the food that you're used to. It's not easy. And that's not even including the normal medical school problems like dealing with the workload, managing your time, etc. In Grenada, you are completely surrounded by medical school, 24 hours a day 7 days a week. There is nowhere to escape it.

I hate saying things like this, but there really is no way to describe it, you just have to experience it. It takes a lot of mental fortitude and willpower to get through the failures and defeats, and there will be many of both. Everybody thinks they are great at handling failure just like they think they're an above average driver. It's hard to feel so stupid, day in and day out, for so long, after spending so much time trying to learn. You are constantly being pushed just ever so slightly beyond what you thought was your breaking point. Combine that with long hours, lack of sleep, and little access to stress relief, and I hope you can see why a fair number of students aren't willing to suffer through it.

 

[DocBlin]

GREAT post bedevilled... That is a reason why in 2006 I felt only 2 schools in Caribbean were more like being in US - AUC and SMU. But even at those nicer islands (especially Grand Cayman) if you get through just the island time you have accomplished a lot. But than clinical years are very trying with all the moving and waiting for slots. Than comes the residency matching, even in 2010 when there were many many more slots available to US-IMGs, it was another test. Besides passing the Step tests, all in all if you accomplished that and became a US licensed MD you can survive most anything. BUT today has to be even tougher, much less matching slots. In the May 2006 SMU class started with 88 and at the May 2010 graduation less than 35 +/- made it that far. Now after another 4 years I would venture to say only 25 are actively practicing licensed US MDs. Thus the attrition is >than 50%. Just my observations from an old MD. Good Luck to all on your adventure..

 

[KCMDF87]

Wow @iliveinmyguitar it's good to finally hear from someone who is in the same scenario I am in. I guess we are choosing different paths though, but I don't see either one as being right or wrong. It is just personal preference.

1) First of all, SDN is filled with these premeds and first year med students bashing on international schools just from what they hear from others. There is little truth to half the things these people post on here. I have talked to so many doctors and medical students from both USMD, USDO, and Carib and they all have said the same thing. Yes, it is a little harder to get a residency when in the Carib. But it is totally doable with hard work. And you're telling me that you're not going to be working hard in a US med school? Just put in time and it'll happen. SGU has a 90% residency match rate for a reason. It is because they train you well and provide an environment in which you can work hard and succeed. I am so sick of people on this forum blindly discouraging people without any first hand experience themselves (as you can clearly see from the first few posts above).

2) Another big reason for me is to save a gap year. This is partly because of the MD/DO merger taking place in 2020 and largely because of personal reasons. Starting med school in 2015 versus in 2016 prevents me from being affected by the merger (as nobody really knows how it will end up affecting international students and DO students). Also, I'm trying to graduate medical school and become a doctor sooner than later. I don't know about others, but the sooner I can finish medical school, the sooner I can get on with other things in my life (starting a family, other hobbies, whatever). It doesn't make sense for me to waste a year for a slightly higher chance at a residency. Just work hard and it will happen regardless. I know it's not a big deal to waste a year for most people, but it is for me.

3) The reason why I am simply applying without the retake is exactly what you said. I checked and there are no seats left for the January MCAT in the US except for Hawaii. And I am not about to spend over a thousand dollars for a retake which I have little time to prepare for anyways. The other option is to take the new MCAT, which I know basically nothing about other than it is quite different and much longer. So for me it makes sense to just apply now with my current MCAT, and in the case I do not get accepted by SGU, I will consider taking the new MCAT and applying next cycle.

I know I am probably upsetting a lot of people who live in this small bubble where the only acceptable thing to do is attend a US medical school, but sorry I'm not sorry. This is just my mentality and we will see where it gets me. All I know is I will be working my butt off regardless of where I attend medical school and hopefully I will be rewarded with a residency. Hope this helps with your situation also and good luck to you.

Thank you for saying what's on my mind as well!! I work at St Lukes Hospital and there are a ton of IMG students doing clinical 3rd and 4th years and also placing in residency spots with UMKC and KU. Work hard, score well on boards, make bridges with people instead of burning them, become cultured, be open minded, be kind. These are keys to success as a future doctor. Your MCAT DOESN'T define you.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Thank you for saying what's on my mind as well!! I work at St Lukes Hospital and there are a ton of IMG students doing clinical 3rd and 4th years and also placing in residency spots with UMKC and KU. Work hard, score well on boards, make bridges with people instead of burning them, become cultured, be open minded, be kind. These are keys to success as a future doctor. Your MCAT DOESN'T define you.

 

[KCMDF87]

I'm bringing it back. Like Fetch. I'm also making fetch happen, Regina!