Chance me Please

[NYCdude]

Hi, 3rd year US MD here with an interest in anesthesiology.

I was hoping to get some advice.

I didn't score too well on step 1 (210-215) and I had to repeat one course second year and conditional'd my OB rotation (repeating shelf exam.)

Is there a shot for me to match a decent academic program?

What would I need on step 2 for that to be a realistic possibility?

Thanks in advance!

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[Chip N Sawbones]

Hi, 3rd year US MD here with an interest in anesthesiology.

I was hoping to get some advice.

I didn't score too well on step 1 (210-215) and I had to repeat one course second year and conditional'd my OB rotation (repeating shelf exam.)

Is there a shot for me to match a decent academic program?

What would I need on step 2 for that to be a realistic possibility?

Thanks in advance!

I've got three interviews with nearly identical red flags as yours except that I failed Step 1 and didn't do all that well on the retake. My Step II was better but not great, 225-230. Do a bunch of away rotations at good but not ultra-competitive programs and treat them like month-long interviews. Work as hard as you can to help the residents, be nice to everyone from the department secretary on up, and basically show everyone that you're the kind of person they want to have on their team. You can show up 15 minutes before the residents to set up their rooms for them, stay until the last case, and you'll still be working less than you did on your surgery rotation.

 

[NYCdude]

I've got three interviews with nearly identical red flags as yours except that I failed Step 1 and didn't do all that well on the retake. My Step II was better but not great, 225-230. Do a bunch of away rotations at good but not ultra-competitive programs and treat them like month-long interviews. Work as hard as you can to help the residents, be nice to everyone from the department secretary on up, and basically show everyone that you're the kind of person they want to have on their team. You can show up 15 minutes before the residents to set up their rooms for them, stay until the last case, and you'll still be working less than you did on your surgery rotation.

Thanks for the reply. Do you mind me asking how many programs you applied to (how many reaches, safeties, etc?)

 

[Chip N Sawbones]

PM sent.

 

[anbuitachi]

Anes is like IM. Hard to get into top tiers but not hard to match. Anes residents are valuable. You'll match if you apply broadly

 

[AdmiralChz]

Anes is like IM. Hard to get into top tiers but not hard to match. Anes residents are valuable. You'll match if you apply broadly

Agree with this. The top academic places will screen you out with Step filters, but you may have a shot at mid-level academic places - yours is probably the rare situation where I’d recommend a couple of aways to get your name and work ethic out there.

Do you have a home program? If so, consider working that angle hard.

 

[NYCdude]

Agree with this. The top academic places will screen you out with Step filters, but you may have a shot at mid-level academic places - yours is probably the rare situation where I’d recommend a couple of aways to get your name and work ethic out there.

Do you have a home program? If so, consider working that angle hard.

Thanks so much for the advice. Do you have examples of what would constitute a "mid level program?"

And are there any academic programs that you would consider to be a good match (in terms of probability of landing a spot?)

 

[anbuitachi]

Thanks so much for the advice. Do you have examples of what would constitute a "mid level program?"

And are there any academic programs that you would consider to be a good match (in terms of probability of landing a spot?)

Not a big name hospital usually. If you are in NYC, not the big 4.

 

[NYCdude]

Not a big name hospital usually. If you are in NYC, not the big 4.

How about Einstein? Would that be a reasonable program to aim for?

 

[anbuitachi]

How about Einstein? Would that be a reasonable program to aim for?

all i know about Einstein is i had 250+ on step 1/2 and didn't even get an interview

 

[MedAnes2017]

all i know about Einstein is i had 250+ on step 1/2 and didn't even get an interview

They prob knew you wouldn't rank them high, and would go elsewhere. Would've been a waste of an interview spot from their perspective.

 

[MedAnes2017]

Hi, 3rd year US MD here with an interest in anesthesiology.

I was hoping to get some advice.

I didn't score too well on step 1 (210-215) and I had to repeat one course second year and conditional'd my OB rotation (repeating shelf exam.)

Is there a shot for me to match a decent academic program?

What would I need on step 2 for that to be a realistic possibility?

Thanks in advance!

Poor step score, repeating a pre-clinical course, conditional pass in 3rd year clerkship. That's 3 red flags for most programs (including mid-tier), and most will rank you low unless you have outstanding work ethics (I don't know how hard you work, but a conditional pass in 3rd year clerkship makes me think that you are not the hardest worker. Not saying I assume you are lazy, but the impression I get is that you don't have the best work ethic.) This is why I agree with AdmiralCHZ that you should do an away rotation to break that prejudice/assumption.

If you are set on staying in NYC, I would recommend taking a closer look at Montefiore (slight reach), Downstate, Maimo. SLR would be a reach.
Rutgers-NJ, NYMC-Westchester, Hofstra are good options as well. Close enough to NYC, and lower tier programs. Should be your target programs.
You may not get interviews from all these places, but if any of them appeals to you, try to schedule an away with them. I wouldn't even bother with big 4 in NYC.

Average step score for matching is 232, I believe, so 210-215 really puts you at a disadvantage. Although it is not entirely about the scores, you will be screened out by a lot of programs. Outside, NYC, your best bet would be lower mid-tier programs in less desirable locations, or lower tier programs in desirable locations, just being brutally honest. Try to really rock step 2. Like anbuitachi said, it's not difficult to match into anesthesiology as US grad, so I wouldn't worry about not matching as long as you apply broadly. Good luck.

 

[NYCdude]

Poor step score, repeating a pre-clinical course, conditional pass in 3rd year clerkship. That's 3 red flags for most programs (including mid-tier), and most will rank you low unless you have outstanding work ethics (I don't know how hard you work, but a conditional pass in 3rd year clerkship makes me think that you are not the hardest worker. Not saying I assume you are lazy, but the impression I get is that you don't have the best work ethic.) This is why I agree with AdmiralCHZ that you should do an away rotation to break that prejudice/assumption.

If you are set on staying in NYC, I would recommend taking a closer look at Montefiore (slight reach), Downstate, Maimo. SLR would be a reach.
Rutgers-NJ, NYMC-Westchester, Hofstra are good options as well. Close enough to NYC, and lower tier programs. Should be your target programs.
You may not get interviews from all these places, but if any of them appeals to you, try to schedule an away with them. I wouldn't even bother with big 4 in NYC.

Average step score for matching is 232, I believe, so 210-215 really puts you at a disadvantage. Although it is not entirely about the scores, you will be screened out by a lot of programs. Outside, NYC, your best bet would be lower mid-tier programs in less desirable locations, or lower tier programs in desirable locations, just being brutally honest. Try to really rock step 2. Like anbuitachi said, it's not difficult to match into anesthesiology as US grad, so I wouldn't worry about not matching as long as you apply broadly. Good luck.

Thanks a lot for the feedback! Just to be clear I'm not locking myself into the NYC area which would be dumb given my low step and other issues.

Would you mind giving me an example of what a low mid-tier program would be?

I've been trying to research programs but don't really know how to gauge these things.

Thanks again.

 

[MedAnes2017]

Thanks a lot for the feedback! Just to be clear I'm not locking myself into the NYC area which would be dumb given my low step and other issues.

Would you mind giving me an example of what a low mid-tier program would be?

I've been trying to research programs but don't really know how to gauge these things.

Thanks again.

PMed you.

 

[Chip N Sawbones]

Don't get too hung up about what programs to apply to. This isn't like applying to med school where you have to pay a $100 fee and write a dozen secondary essays for each school, which drastically limits the number of schools you can apply to. All you have to do is check boxes in ERAS, at $10-26 a check. Save up some money before September 15th. By the time you select all the non-super competitive programs in the geographic areas you'd like to be in you'll be most of the way there. Add a few more programs in places where people who like smog and traffic jams don't want to live, and you'll be set.

 

[Chip N Sawbones]

Poor step score, repeating a pre-clinical course, conditional pass in 3rd year clerkship. That's 3 red flags for most programs (including mid-tier), and most will rank you low unless you have outstanding work ethics (I don't know how hard you work, but a conditional pass in 3rd year clerkship makes me think that you are not the hardest worker.

Conditional pass most likely means the OP did okay in the rotation but failed the shelf exam. I've got a conditional pass of my own from that. The swell thing about medical school is that you can be the hardest worker in the world but if you are bad at memorizing large chunks of potentially useless information you'll almost certainly get terrible grades.

 

[parcus]

Conditional pass most likely means the OP did okay in the rotation but failed the shelf exam. I've got a conditional pass of my own from that. The swell thing about medical school is that you can be the hardest worker in the world but if you are bad at memorizing large chunks of potentially useless information you'll almost certainly get terrible grades.

The point of rotations is learning as much as possible and developing skills, not “working” per si (though working hard helps developing skills). Of note, it’s the “potentially useless” information that differentiates us from mere technicians CRNAs etc.

 

[MedAnes2017]

Conditional pass most likely means the OP did okay in the rotation but failed the shelf exam. I've got a conditional pass of my own from that. The swell thing about medical school is that you can be the hardest worker in the world but if you are bad at memorizing large chunks of potentially useless information you'll almost certainly get terrible grades.

Shelf exams are not hard to pass at all. I am sure each med school is different, but where I went, in addition to clinical evals, you had to get 80th percentile on the shelf to honor, and failing was I think 5th percentile (maybe 10th, I forget). If you finished the corresponding section on UWORLD during the rotation and read a short review book, there's no way you should be scoring in the 5th percentile to fail the shelf. Studying daily during 3rd year is hard, but people with good work ethics will make the effort to pick themselves up at the end of a tough day, and persist.

It is usually the people that do not study every day (aka, the "poor work ethic"), and push off the studying to the last week of their rotation, and try to cram everything in that end up failing the shelves.

 

[vector2]

Conditional pass most likely means the OP did okay in the rotation but failed the shelf exam. I've got a conditional pass of my own from that. The swell thing about medical school is that you can be the hardest worker in the world but if you are bad at memorizing large chunks of potentially useless information you'll almost certainly get terrible grades.

Memorizing large chunks of (potentially useless) information doesn't stop in training or post-training, not to mention you actually have busy hours with a real job in residency. PDs don't want to worry about having residents who are going to have to remediate basic, advanced, and applied. It looks bad and it's a horrible PITA for everyone involved.

 

[nimbus]

It is usually the people that do not study every day (aka, the "poor work ethic"), and push off the studying to the last week of their rotation, and try to cram everything in that end up failing the shelves.

Reality is that the vast majority of these people also pass and some do extremely well. Cramming is a tried and true practice because it works well for a lot of people.

 

[anbuitachi]

Reality is that the vast majority of these people also pass and some do extremely well. Cramming is a tried and true practice because it works well for a lot of people.

Thats how i got thru med school. A ton of cramming. It's tiring to study daily when you are in the hospital for long hours, even when i tried id just fall asleep after like reading 1 paragraph.