group not paying me

[addoncase]

For those seasoned folks out there,

i work for a group im not a partner. When i was hired it was written in my contract that i would be paid x amount of dollars to cover call on the weekends at said hospital. Its been months now and i have done multiple shifts, so far they have only paid me half what they said they would per shift. After asking for months where or when is the rest of my money coming i was told in person a few weeks ago oh so casually thats all you are getting per shift.

I know i can get a laywer etc, leave etc but what im really asking is is this sort of shady business common ? Or what does it speak of the group ?

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[coffeebythelake]

This place seems shady as ****. Is thr agreement for pay in writing?

 

[serraveex]

If it’s in writing, you can complain to the department of labor, blast them to anyone you know and I would just leave.

As for is it common, if it’s a shady group very common

 

[addoncase]

This place seems shady as ****. Is thr agreement for pay in writing?

its very much in the contract

 

[addoncase]

i contacted the attorney i used to review the contact initially, he says there isnt much to do other than sent a letter to them demanding payment or accept it for what it is,...

 

[FatKid]

@addoncase , depending on what state you are located in, you may have to take your group to small claims court. Different states have different cut-offs for small claims court ($10k, $15k etc.)

Also, I think it goes without saying, do NOT cover any more weekends until they pay you what they owe you and apologize for being unprofessional.

 

[addoncase]

@addoncase , depending on what state you are located in, you may have to take your group to small claims court. Different states have different cut-offs for small claims court ($10k, $15k etc.)

Also, I think it goes without saying, do NOT cover any more weekends until they pay you what they owe you and apologize for being unprofessional.

currently im owed about 12K. I could do what you say, but what if they retaliate against me somehow? They have threatened to report prior people to the NPDB who caused them "problems"

 

[coffeebythelake]

Demand payment with written notification

Plan to sue them in small claims court

Name and shame the group and individuals so everyone knows. Anesthesia is a small world.

They would report you to NPDB for causing problems but have no issue with you working and taking calls? Hmm seems like anyone would see through that as blatant retaliation. It would make them more of a target for investigation

 

[FatKid]

currently im owed about 12K. I could do what you say, but what if they retaliate against me somehow? They have threatened to report prior people to the NPDB who caused them "problems"

If they report you to the NPDB for suing them for non-payment, the NPDB would say, "we don't get involved in contract disputes."

Realistically, it sounds like it's time for you to look for another job....

 

[addoncase]

not for contract disputes, but to make a false claim that you are unsafe at work or something or some claim about you that would be warranted to the NPDB. Get some statements from some OR nurses, some surgeons you dont want to cater to. It happened to the last person at this group. I dont know the exact details but it was something along those lines. This said person was not unsafe at all, they were maybe quirky in some ways but definitely not what the group was going to portray them to the NPDB.

they threatened to report them if they didn't leave

 

[deleted1183938]

@addoncase , depending on what state you are located in, you may have to take your group to small claims court. Different states have different cut-offs for small claims court ($10k, $15k etc.)

Also, I think it goes without saying, do NOT cover any more weekends until they pay you what they owe you and apologize for being unprofessional.

Yeah. Bad idea to ever work for them at all ever again. You got all the warning you already need.

 

[serraveex]

All you can is document the timeline. Say that I asked for back pay at this date and this report “suddenly” appeared X days later. Any decent attorney would be able to sue for retaliation

 

[MirrorTodd]

not for contract disputes, but to make a false claim that you are unsafe at work or something or some claim about you that would be warranted to the NPDB. Get some statements from some OR nurses, some surgeons you dont want to cater to. It happened to the last person at this group. I dont know the exact details but it was something along those lines. This said person was not unsafe at all, they were maybe quirky in some ways but definitely not what the group was going to portray them to the NPDB.

they threatened to report them if they didn't leave

Did they put that in writing?

 

[addoncase]

Did they put that in writing?

put what in writing?

that they would have reported the person to the NPDB for being unsafe if they didn't leave?

as far as i know nothing was in writing but all in person conversations and phone calls.

the NPDB is not regarding me, it was someone else with the group prior. Want to make that clear.

my concern is they MAY go that route with me if i were to complain about this pay.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

For those seasoned folks out there,

i work for a group im not a partner. When i was hired it was written in my contract that i would be paid x amount of dollars to cover call on the weekends at said hospital. Its been months now and i have done multiple shifts, so far they have only paid me half what they said they would per shift. After asking for months where or when is the rest of my money coming i was told in person a few weeks ago oh so casually thats all you are getting per shift.

I know i can get a laywer etc, leave etc but what im really asking is is this sort of shady business common ? Or what does it speak of the group ?

I’m not an anesthesiologist, but I did work in a PP in the past (as a rheumatologist) that didn’t pay me the bonuses I was due.

In terms of rectifying this, you basically have two options: 1) get a lawyer to send a demand letter => sue the practice if they don’t pay up or 2) leave.

In practice, the most likely endpoint here is that you will need to leave. Suing the practice is going to take forever to work its way through the courts, and it’s unlikely to be worth doing unless there is a lot of money on the table (like at least $100k, if not more. Even if you win, a lot of what you win is going to get consumed in lawyers fees, and many attorneys aren’t even going to want to bring such a case unless they stand a chance for a big payout). Also, suing your current employer is likely to lead to you getting harassed or otherwise pushed out of the job sooner or later. Suing the practice for owed compensation is often best done after you leave the job. You also probably don’t want to keep working for a practice that has already demonstrated that they’re going to lie to you, and short your pay.

You can absolutely try to work with the department of labor on this…but don’t hold your breath. I tried to do this with my previous job, but the state/federal labor agencies in that state (AL) were overloaded and not very helpful at all.

Bottom line: you probably need to start looking for another job. Sorry that this is happening to you. Unfortunately, a lot of PPs out there are dishonest.

 

[kidthor]

If they’re threatening you and not paying you then you should 100% leave. I would definitely get a lawyer on retainer - it will cost you 3-5K and will be worth it, even if you don’t get into it with your employer, just to know that you’re protected.

I don’t see why anyone would work with any group that threatens to report you to NPDB as a retaliation measure. No job at any amount is worth it when interfacing with toxic individuals like that.

I once had an employer that behaved like this. I stuck around too long and learned the hard way that it’s never worth it. I did lawyer up and escaped unscathed. But really it’s never worth the stress.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

currently im owed about 12K. I could do what you say, but what if they retaliate against me somehow? They have threatened to report prior people to the NPDB who caused them "problems"

This is ridiculous and they are bluffing. NPDB is for malpractice and stuff. I would sue their pants off.

 

[addoncase]

If they’re threatening you and not paying you then you should 100% leave. I would definitely get a lawyer on retainer - it will cost you 3-5K and will be worth it, even if you don’t get into it with your employer, just to know that you’re protected.

I don’t see why anyone would work with any group that threatens to report you to NPDB as a retaliation measure. No job at any amount is worth it when interfacing with toxic individuals like that.

I once had an employer that behaved like this. I stuck around too long and learned the hard way that it’s never worth it. I did lawyer up and escaped unscathed. But really it’s never worth the stress.

they have made no mention or threat to the NPDB regarding me (that was someone else that was with the group and that person issues were not regarding call compensation but they wanted them out and they threatened them with the NPDB).

I havent even really pushed further to be paid what im owed so far. Just exploring my options. Im new, naive and need to hear from you experienced folk first before i do anything.

Can i really just tell them im not working those weekend compensated shifts anymore until you pay me what im owed for the shifts i worked?

 

[chessknt]

You can probably quit without notice for their failure to perform on their end of the contract and file a lawsuit. Check your contract termination clause--usually it has a for cause/immediate section on their end and yours. Get another job lined up first.

 

[addoncase]

are non competes still valid if they breach their contract because they wont pay me?

 

[MirrorTodd]

Did they put that in writing?

Yes I was referring to the previous person. If they truly did something as stupid as put that in writing and then one's career is negatively affected, then one could def sue for a lot more than just lost wages.

 

[addoncase]

Yes I was referring to the previous person. If they truly did something as stupid as put that in writing and then one's career is negatively affected, then one could def sue for a lot more than just lost wages.

No they didnt as far as I know
I don’t think the group is that stupid to implicate themselves

 

[MirrorTodd]

No they didnt as far as I know
I don’t think the group is that stupid to implicate themselves

If you are in a one party state then I would start recording ALL of your interactions with the group and get as much as you can in writing from them. Even if it means you just sending follow up emails after oral communications.

 

[IlDestriero]

If you are in a one party state then I would start recording ALL of your interactions with the group and get as much as you can in writing from them. Even if it means you just sending follow up emails after oral communications.

All this, and leave ASAP. This place is a threat to your career.

 

[deleted1133676]

#1. Give written notice ASAP as specified in your contract
#2. Fulfill your duties as specified in your contract. DO NOT GIVE THEM A REASON TO FIRE YOU FOR CAUSE.
#3. Have attorney contact them to handle back pay issue and any other contract issues
#4. Do not disparage them, especially not on social media etc. Keep your mouth shut.
#5. Start looking for a new job, but first seek out advice from others so that you don’t fall into same trap again. Take your time. Do locums for a bit till you sort things out.
#6. You may discover that you may need to walk away from this job and leave money on the table. Consider it tuition for the University of Life. I would only do so if you have a written agreement from them that includes a non-disparagement clause and a release from any non-compete clause. Your attorney can best advise.
#7. They are not going to report you to the NPDB.

All that being said, I would be tempted to file in Small Claims and represent myself, just to be a PITA. Alternatively, if you are well acquainted with two guys named Moose and Rocco you can let them handle the matter.

Good luck

 

[deleted1133676]

If you are in a one party state then I would start recording ALL of your interactions with the group and get as much as you can in writing from them. Even if it means you just sending follow up emails after oral communications.

IANAL but I would tread carefully. One party doesn’t mean that you can record whatever you want without repercussion, notably if there is a reasonable expectation of privacy.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

are non competes still valid if they breach their contract because they wont pay me?

Usually, no.

If you hold them in breach of the contract the noncompete usually is voided. But I would discuss with your lawyer.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

#1. Give written notice ASAP as specified in your contract
#2. Fulfill your duties as specified in your contract. DO NOT GIVE THEM A REASON TO FIRE YOU FOR CAUSE.
#3. Have attorney contact them to handle back pay issue and any other contract issues
#4. Do not disparage them, especially not on social media etc. Keep your mouth shut.
#5. Start looking for a new job, but first seek out advice from others so that you don’t fall into same trap again. Take your time. Do locums for a bit till you sort things out.
#6. You may discover that you may need to walk away from this job and leave money on the table. Consider it tuition for the University of Life. I would only do so if you have a written agreement from them that includes a non-disparagement clause and a release from any non-compete clause. Your attorney can best advise.
#7. They are not going to report you to the NPDB.

All that being said, I would be tempted to file in Small Claims and represent myself, just to be a PITA. Alternatively, if you are well acquainted with two guys named Moose and Rocco you can let them handle the matter.

Good luck

I agree with all this, especially #6. Speaking from experience - you will almost certainly be leaving money behind here. At some point, it’s about limiting the losses. Just get yourself and your career away from this place before they can rip you off further, and file false reports (and yes, these false reports to NPDB, medical boards, PHPs etc DO happen from employers).

Also, in many states, small claims court is only for individuals suing other individuals.

 

[anonperson]

For those seasoned folks out there,

i work for a group im not a partner. When i was hired it was written in my contract that i would be paid x amount of dollars to cover call on the weekends at said hospital. Its been months now and i have done multiple shifts, so far they have only paid me half what they said they would per shift. After asking for months where or when is the rest of my money coming i was told in person a few weeks ago oh so casually thats all you are getting per shift.

I know i can get a laywer etc, leave etc but what im really asking is is this sort of shady business common ? Or what does it speak of the group ?

When you say half, did they pay half the agreed rate for all of the calls or for just half the calls?

Who told you that was all you are getting? A senior partner?

Your options may be limited. I am assuming you are a 1099. For example, in California, the Labor Commission will not get involved in pay disputes for independent contractors. If you are a W2, then they will and they can impose penalties on the employer for wage theft up to an extra months worth of pay.

You will have to check your states labor board for specific rules.

I would formally talk with whoever the super partner is in a calm and non confrontational manner.

Small claims court is usually limited in the amount you can get depending on your location.

Does your contract state when they have to pay you? 60 days/90 days etc?

Sorry you are in a bind. Garbage situation. Sad that unscrupulous groups are doing this to fellow physicians. The greed some people get is amazing sometimes. Sad but amazing.

Edit:
Read through and saw it was $12k. A decent amount of cash for you but may not be enough to pursue legally.

 

[Status Sciaticus]

IANAL but I would tread carefully. One party doesn’t mean that you can record whatever you want without repercussion, notably if there is a reasonable expectation of privacy.

Actually thats exactly what one party states allow you to do. So long as you are not violating any doctor-patient, spousal immunity, or attorney-client privilege, everything else is fair game.

 

[addoncase]

If you are in a one party state then I would start recording ALL of your interactions with the group and get as much as you can in writing from them. Even if it means you just sending follow up emails after oral communication

Ji

When you say half, did they pay half the agreed rate for all of the calls or for just half the calls?

They have paid me only half of the compensation per calls that i have completed, and recently told me that this new rate which is half of what is in my contract is the new rate for the compensation for these shifts going forward

Who told you that was all you are getting? A senior partner?
Yes

Your options may be limited. I am assuming you are a 1099. For example, in California, the Labor Commission will not get involved in pay disputes for independent contractors. If you are a W2, then they will and they can impose penalties on the employer for wage theft up to an extra months worth of
Im W2, not in CA.

You will have to check your states labor board for specific rules.

I would formally talk with whoever the super partner is in a calm and non confrontational manner.

Small claims court is usually limited in the amount you can get depending on your location.

Does your contract state when they have to pay you? 60 days/90 days etc?

It doesn't say exactly, just that the weekend compensation is adjusted every X months. So what happens is you can work a shift and that shift may not be payed out for 4 weeks, while another shift maybe paid out in two weeks etc.

All that they have paid me for the completed shifts is HALF whats in my contract. I did ask them many times over and over again if the other half was coming later because of that "adjusted every X months thing" Its been way past the adjustment period for me to get the remaining money.

Sorry you are in a bind. Garbage situation. Sad that unscrupulous groups are doing this to fellow physicians. The greed some people get is amazing sometimes. Sad but amazing.

Edit:
Read through and saw it was $12k. A decent amount of cash for you but may not be enough to pursue legally.

 

[addoncase]

can i request extra vacation that correlates to the amount of money they owe me?

 

[deleted1133676]

Actually thats exactly what one party states allow you to do. So long as you are not violating any doctor-patient, spousal immunity, or attorney-client privilege, everything else is fair game.

You are correct.

 

[aneftp]

The bigger red flag is if the group is solvent for much longer.

It’s only 12k. So they were suppose to pay the OP say 18k (6k per weekend call?). But only paid 2/3 or it?

 

[deleted1133676]

can i request extra vacation that correlates to the amount of money they owe me?

Don’t complicate things. Talk to your attorney first.

 

[kidthor]

You are correct.

Actually thats exactly what one party states allow you to do. So long as you are not violating any doctor-patient, spousal immunity, or attorney-client privilege, everything else is fair game.

There’s almost certainly a hospital policy that prevents recording without authorization. So I would be careful with that…

 

[Hoya11]

For those seasoned folks out there,

i work for a group im not a partner. When i was hired it was written in my contract that i would be paid x amount of dollars to cover call on the weekends at said hospital. Its been months now and i have done multiple shifts, so far they have only paid me half what they said they would per shift. After asking for months where or when is the rest of my money coming i was told in person a few weeks ago oh so casually thats all you are getting per shift.

I know i can get a laywer etc, leave etc but what im really asking is is this sort of shady business common ? Or what does it speak of the group ?

its not common, but its out there in the more extremely shady groups

was it a miscommunication about the rate? did you ask for a special higher rate than they pay everyone else? has everything else in your contract been honored?

 

[abolt18]

I don't see why you wouldn't just say "I'm not going to work anymore of these call shifts until I am paid the amount we agreed upon, exactly as described in my contract. I am owed $xx,xxx.xx." Otherwise they're just learning with every passing day that they can screw you over and it won't stop unless you put your foot down. It doesn't have to be confrontational, but you can 100% stand up for yourself.

And as others said, just start looking for another job ASAP. Non-compete likely irrelevant if they're not holding up their end of the contract, but a good attorney would be exceptionally useful in this process.

 

[2buckchuck]

There’s almost certainly a hospital policy that prevents recording without authorization. So I would be careful with that…

You may get in trouble with the hospital (if they ever found out), but any discipline would be limited to whatever the hospital can levy internally.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

This is ridiculous and they are bluffing. NPDB is for malpractice and stuff. I would sue their pants off.

The problem is that if they *do* report you to the NPDB, they don’t have to present much (or any) evidence to do so - and once the report is made, my understanding is that there is very little recourse for the reported doctor. Even if the report is completely bogus, it is very hard (if not impossible) to get an NPDB report removed. Iirc the best you can do in most cases is file a letter “contesting” the report, but the report still stays.

An NPDB report is one of the most damaging things that can happen to you as a doc, and it’s not worth messing with. If you’re working at a place crazy enough to threaten to do it, the only correct move is to GTFO.

 

[addoncase]

its not common, but its out there in the more extremely shady groups

was it a miscommunication about the rate? did you ask for a special higher rate than they pay everyone else? has everything else in your contract been honored?

zero miscommunication about the rate. It's in my contract. I also asked about it several times via email and it's also in multiple emails. Although emails don't matter that much.

As far as everything else in the contract being honored, No. I'm also supposed to get a certain number of these weekend compensated shifts a year. I have gotten less than was said in the contract. I was also asking about this too but no one replied. I think they cut down on the shifts because they werent going to pay me the actual rate. Ofcourse no one tells me anything even when i ask....and have been asking for months.

But this lack of pay after i did the work is at the top of the list.

Who knows maybe they hospital paid them already and get are just keeping some of my portion. What do i know....

 

[addoncase]

The problem is that if they *do* report you to the NPDB, they don’t have to present much (or any) evidence to do so - and once the report is made, my understanding is that there is very little recourse for the reported doctor. Even if the report is completely bogus, it is very hard (if not impossible) to get an NPDB report removed. Iirc the best you can do in most cases is file a letter “contesting” the report, but the report still stays.

An NPDB report is one of the most damaging things that can happen to you as a doc, and it’s not worth messing with. If you’re working at a place crazy enough to threaten to do it, the only correct move is to GTFO.

What you are saying is also my understanding and thats my concern.

 

[aneftp]

The problem is that if they *do* report you to the NPDB, they don’t have to present much (or any) evidence to do so - and once the report is made, my understanding is that there is very little recourse for the reported doctor. Even if the report is completely bogus, it is very hard (if not impossible) to get an NPDB report removed. Iirc the best you can do in most cases is file a letter “contesting” the report, but the report still stays.

An NPDB report is one of the most damaging things that can happen to you as a doc, and it’s not worth messing with. If you’re working at a place crazy enough to threaten to do it, the only correct move is to GTFO.

Very simple to combat this. U file the same thing about them.

It can get ugly. Eye for an eye.

One of my former colleagues has this similar situation when separating from his private group.

Amazing when you fight fire with fire. People back off

It’s actually more damaging to the group than the individual.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

The bigger red flag is if the group is solvent for much longer.

It’s only 12k. So they were suppose to pay the OP say 18k (6k per weekend call?). But only paid 2/3 or it?

Agreed. Usually when PPs start doing this stuff, it means their finances are falling apart. (At least it did when my PP refused to pay bonuses.)

 

[addoncase]

aneftp im trying to direct message you...

 

[addoncase]

Agreed. Usually when PPs start doing this stuff, it means their finances are falling apart. (At least it did when my PP refused to pay bonuses.)

they have the money, what they owe me is nothing compared to what they have. Im sure they are taking in a lot more than me. I dont care, its the principal of the matter that bothers me the most....is this not theft of some sort?

im sure there are other cases out there with much bigger dollar values?

 

[dozitgetchahi]

Very simple to combat this. U file the same thing about them.

It can get ugly. Eye for an eye.

One of my former colleagues has this similar situation when separating from his private group.

Amazing when you fight fire with fire. People back off

It’s actually more damaging to the group than the individual.

I agree (and I did this in one previous employment situation), but the fact of the matter is that they can do a lot more damage to you this way than you can to them.

JACHO reports, OSHA complaints, etc etc can be filed against an employer, but most of these don’t do much to them and are relatively easy for them to evade. (The biggest exception is to file an OIG complaint regarding their billing to CMS - if they get audited, the OIG has real teeth - but for that to actually work you need to have evidence that they are billing CMS fraudulently.)

 

[kidthor]

know any good attorneys for this?

should i use the guy i used for contract reviews? he knows about this issue options are to send a letter to them or just let it be.... :-/

It depends on what state you’re in.

 

[thinkorswim]

can i request extra vacation that correlates to the amount of money they owe me?

Why bother negotiating with a party that has already acted in bad faith?

I agree with others that you should look for a new job and tell your current group that you won’t be taking any more call until they back pay what is owed in your contract.

But I personally wouldn’t pursue any legal action over $12k. It’s just not worth the hassle and the money isn’t significant in the grand scheme of things. Lawyers are expensive and even if you win on your own in small claims court, you’re still on your own when comes to collecting. Just chalk it up to an expensive life lesson and move on.

 

[addoncase]

Why bother negotiating with a party that has already acted in bad faith?

I agree with others that you should look for a new job and tell your current group that you won’t be taking any more call until they back pay what is owed in your contract.

But I personally wouldn’t pursue any legal action over $12k. It’s just not worth the hassle and the money isn’t significant in the grand scheme of things. Lawyers are expensive and even if you win on your own in small claims court, you’re still on your own when comes to collecting. Just chalk it up to an expensive life lesson and move on.

waiting to hear from my contract attorney, maybe its better they dont pay me so i can use it as a breech of contract and have the non compete be void?