Chances at MD

[Timetocrunch]

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Hey there SDN.

I am ORM in medicine non trad. I went to college back in 2012 and dropped out. I had three semesters with the final one having two F's and two W's. I left college before finishing the semester and never took finals which caused me to fail all but one class. Got three IA's and left with a 1.7 GPA....

I took a year off doing odd jobs, then moved cities to start a small business which ended up expanding and doing quite well. I sold off my half of the business when covid hit, took a year off to figure out what I wanted to do with my life and decided to go back to school in 2021. Since going back to school I gotten all but one A. I started at a CC then I transferred to a state school where I have taken all my science pre-reqs . I plan to apply in the next cycle and my cGPA should be at a 3.50 and my sGPA at a 3.78 at the time I apply with the last 100 hours being 3.97.

I just got back my MCAT and received a 520 (130/132/127/131)

With my past history and academic IA do I have a chance? I've got the strongest upward trend I could possibly get along with research EC's and I've worked in healthcare since 2020 mainly in roles which have direct patient contact roles. I'm doubting myself now after having put in tons of work, but it feels like my original academic issues may be insurmountable. What do you all think?

WAMC Form

1. cGPA and sGPA as calculated by AMCAS or AACOMAS: 3.49 cGPA and 3.74 sGPA (last 103 hours GPA is a 3.97, only A's except for Biochem (B))
2. MCAT score(s) and breakdown. Include all (non-voided) attempts.: 520 (130/132/127/131)
3. State of residence or country of citizenship (if non-US); IL
4. Ethnicity and/or race: White Male ORM
5. Undergraduate institution or category:State school in GA in 2013 where I failed 7 classes then in 2021 I went back to school starting with CC then a different State School not T20. All science pre-reqs done at 2nd state school.
6. Clinical experience (volunteer and non-volunteer): 5,000+ in direct patient contact. Worked as MRI assistant tech for 3 years then part time as a unit secretary for a year and briefly in patient transport for 4 months
7. Research experience and productivity: 3 abstracts, 1 oral presentation so far, 3rd and 4th author on 2 papers, working on a first author manuscript and have 1st author abstracts submitted to one large national conference and one large international conference. All biomechanics research working with disabled participants. Work in research lab as a paid employee now. A thousand hours? ( I also volunteered in some Psych labs but no pubs of any kind and probably not even going to include in activities list, although this would add another 150 or so hours)
8. Shadowing experience and specialties represented: IR shadowing 6 hours, PM&R shadowing 10 hours
9. Non-clinical volunteering: Special needs summer camp: 80 hours, State government sponsored healthcare oversight committee: 35 hours, Literacy focused non-profit working in Chicago in some of the poorest areas: 20 hours (Should have about 20 more by application), Meals on Wheels: 25 hours
10. Other extracurricular activities (including athletics, military service, gap year activities, leadership, teaching, etc): Started and ran a small business, built it from scratch to a profitable business. Hoping the uniqueness of my company will help make this my "X" factor. Tutoring, marathon/triathlon, disc golf at a competitive level, ran a YMCA leadership program,
11. Relevant honors or awards: Dean's List, Honor society, distinction in Neuroscience, full Latin honors, AHA Summer Research Grant (employed by the PI after grant ended.), several large scholarships for academic achievement
12. Anything else not listed you think might be important: Changed my whole life to pursue this. Got 5 F's and 3 W's back in 2014 along with 3 IA's all related to grades. Went back to school years later. Have also worked full time through most of this process only going part time in my last two semester.

 

[wysdoc]

I moved your question to the "what are my chances" forum for better replies.
You are proving that the mature "you" isn't the same kid who wasn't ready for college.
Good luck!

 

[Timetocrunch]

Thanks so much!

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Are you missing prereqs or upper-level science classes? If you are, you shouldn't take the MCAT until you are fully prepared. If you have taken all the prereqs, there's no way to assess your chances without an official result.

 

[Timetocrunch]

Are you missing prereqs or upper-level science classes? If you are, you shouldn't take the MCAT until you are fully prepared. If you have taken all the prereqs, there's no way to assess your chances without an official result.

I'm planning for a test date in Jan of 2025. I am missing a second semester of organic chemistry and biochemistry, but I will be taking both of these in the upcoming semester before my test date. I also need another semester of physics, one stats-based psych course, and have some upper-level Bios/Neuro labs.

I know without having taken the MCAT it's impossible to really say if I have good odds. I guess what I was most looking for was whether or not my IA and bad academic history would completely tank my application. I'm not sure why it hit me today, but I am very anxious that maybe all this work won't actually be worth it. I was hoping for validation that this all wasn't a waste. I choose this path over taking some more finically lucrative opportunities which never really bothered me until today for some reason.

I'm also worried that starting my own company won't have any real value to my application as it's not healthcare related and that my jobs in healthcare won't make much of a difference as they aren't scribing. Today everything is a worry. I probably need some exercise and a good night's sleep. After typing this out I've realized that I guess I was just really looking for validation.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

The IA for going on probation for a sub 2.0 GPA is just a fact of your past, and it won't impact your application review if your most recent coursework is much more successful.

I think by not taking the MCAT when you are prepared properly could be more damaging to your chances. You're trying to build a story where you aren't the student that went to college 10 years ago. The worst thing you can do is put a big ink spot on your painting. Lacking physics and stats before the MCAT could you into trouble. I guess you'll have to see how your practice exams go, but you need those 12x subscores up to 13x.

You also won't impress me for starting a company while you're doing all of this. If anything, that can serve as an unnecessary distraction that could also blow up in your face if you don't do well.

Can you do it? Darn right you can (Goro's Guide to Reinvention). But do it the right way, and you can avoid additional trouble and setbacks.

 

[Timetocrunch]

Thats good to hear that upward trend does really matter and that a high MCAT can make up for old mistakes!

I don't want to dox myself too much, but I didn't start a company while doing this. I built a company and sold it before I ever even thought about going back to school. It basically gave me the chance to afford a second chance at an education and gave me financial space and security to really take the time to decide what I wanted to do with my life. I had on average 12 employees and was hoping it would show leadership, professionalism etc. on an app but also, I'm a bit worried that it'll be glossed over when it's probably what makes me different than the typical non trad.


I really like your painting analogy and how you talk about building a story. I think my PS and secondaries will have to really show that off. Thanks for the motivation and honest opinions! I'm hoping in about 6 months I'll be back with a 52X score! and asking for help crafting a more specific school list.

 

[LunaOri]

I think starting and running a successful company shows leadership and maturity, which are desirable characteristics in an applicant.
I agree with the advice not to take the MCAT until you have completed all of the applicable prerequisites.
Your clinical exposure is good—scribing is not necessary!
Try to do a little primary care shadowing if you can, and nonclinical volunteering with the underserved.
You have potential to be a successful applicant, in my opinion.

 

[Timetocrunch]

I think starting and running a successful company shows leadership and maturity, which are desirable characteristics in an applicant.
I agree with the advice not to take the MCAT until you have completed all of the applicable prerequisites.
Your clinical exposure is good—scribing is not necessary!
Try to do a little primary care shadowing if you can, and nonclinical volunteering with the underserved.
You have potential to be a successful applicant, in my opinion.

Hey thanks so much for the response. Are med schools a little more understanding when non trads don't have the same spread of hours?

It's very hard to find time in my schedule between work, school, research, and mcat prep. I have old volunteer hours from 5-7 years ago but I'm shooting for 200ish current volunteer hours because I read somewhere on reddit that old hours dont count. I also have no way to prove thoose hours as I didn't even keep track. I might not make 200 and I know some schools want thousands(?). I've seen conflicting information about this across the internet so any guidance or advice would be super helpful.

 

[LunaOri]

I think 200 volunteer hours would suffice. Research is less important, in my opinion, than showing that you have a desire to serve/help people.

 

[Timetocrunch]

I think 200 volunteer hours would suffice. Research is less important, in my opinion, than showing that you have a desire to serve/help people.

Thanks so much!

 

[Timetocrunch]

Bumping this as I got back my MCAT and was hoping to get some school list advice. I've also updated the WAMC of the original post. I'm in Chicago and would like to stay in Chicago but also want to potentially shoot my shot at some top schools? I was thinking of applying to roughly 30 schools with 5 being top schools, and all schools in Chicago.


5 Top/Reach schools-
UChicago
Northwestern
Stanford
Mayo (maybe Lerner)
Yale (maybe Penn instead b/c I have family in Philly)

Chicago Schools-
UIC
Rush
Midwestern
Rosalind Franklin
Loyola

The Rest in no particular order-
Emory
Dartmouth
Penn State
SUNY Downstate
Buffalo
Case Western/Lerner (this should be one of my 5 reaches?)
Wake Forest
Albert Einstein
Virginia Tech
Drexel
Grossman
Kaiser
New UGA school (I'm from GA but not sure if its worth the risk)
Wisconsin
Western Michigan
Tufts
SUNY Downstate


That's about all I've got for my list right now. Any help, advice feedback would be awesome. Thanks so much!

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Great! How much have you improved on the non-clinical community service profile? Have you gotten to 200 hours yet?

 

[Timetocrunch]

Great! How much have you improved on the non-clinical community service profile? Have you gotten to 200 hours yet?

I have not. I'm at about 150ish. I need to add them all up to get an exact number but realistically I don't think I'll be getting to 200 by the time I apply. I should have started earlier.

 

[Faha]

I suggest these schools with your stats:
UIC
Rush
Loyola
Rosalind Franklin
U Chicago
Northwestern
Iowa
Indiana
Medical College Wisconsin
Western Michigan
Oakland Beaumont
Wayne State
St. Louis
Creighton
TCU
Tulane
Emory
Wake Forest
Virginia Commonwealth
Georgetown
George Washington
Pittsburgh
Drexel
Temple
Jefferson
Penn State
Cincinnati
Case Western
Hackensack
Hofstra
Einstein
Mount Sinai
Rochester
New York Medical College
Vermont
Tufts
Boston University
Dartmouth
Brown
UMass

 

[Timetocrunch]

I suggest these schools with your stats:
UIC
Rush
Loyola
Rosalind Franklin
U Chicago
Northwestern
Iowa
Indiana
Medical College Wisconsin
Western Michigan
Oakland Beaumont
Wayne State
St. Louis
Creighton
TCU
Tulane
Emory
Wake Forest
Virginia Commonwealth
Georgetown
George Washington
Pittsburgh
Drexel
Temple
Jefferson
Penn State
Cincinnati
Case Western
Hackensack
Hofstra
Einstein
Mount Sinai
Rochester
New York Medical College
Vermont
Tufts
Boston University
Dartmouth
Brown
UMass

Awesome! Thank you so much! Do you think its even worth taking a shot at Stanford/Mayo and on the flip side should I be applying DO too?

 

[Faha]

Awesome! Thank you so much! Do you think its even worth taking a shot at Stanford/Mayo and on the flip side should I be applying DO too?

You could try Stanford and Mayo but they have small class sizes and are very competitive.You do not need to apply to DO schools.