Chances of residency

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Toothy2536

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Hi all, so I’m a new grad interested in residency. My favorite is ortho however I like endo and Pedo as well. My gpa is 3.2, various ASDA activities/leadership, and research in undergrad & dental school. Since I was an average student I don’t know what my chances are for ortho residency or if I have a better chance to try Pedo or endo. I just don’t want to keep trying year after year after year for ortho and not get in. I’m open to any advice.Thanks!

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If you like all those things, what’s wrong with just being a GP? Continue doing CE and offer those procedures. Why waste money and time going to residency?
 
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Hi all, so I’m a new grad interested in residency. My favorite is ortho however I like endo and Pedo as well. My gpa is 3.2, various ASDA activities/leadership, and research in undergrad & dental school. Since I was an average student I don’t know what my chances are for ortho residency or if I have a better chance to try Pedo or endo. I just don’t want to keep trying year after year after year for ortho and not get in. I’m open to any advice.Thanks!

Work for a few years as a GP. See what you like and dislike. At that point, if you're not 100% sure you could stick to just one specialty for the rest of your career, may be better of being a GP and doing all the things you enjoy.
 
Start with answering the question of "Why do I want to specialize" and be honest with yourself, if the reason is "to make more money" I think you may be disappointed. I think its ok if that reason is "to have an easier job." The correct answer, in my opinion, is "because I love it"

I agree with others you should try being a quality GP for awhile and let the specialty choose you. That said if you really like all 3 PEDO will allow you to do some interceptive ortho and space maintenance while exposing you to endodontic procedures through pulpotomies. I personally wouldn't do pedo thats a tough gig.

yes you can get into all 3. difficulty level to get in probably orthodontics the hardest, then endodontics then pedatric. things are changing like someone mentioned above you can kind of buy yourself into a specialty now. also, i think most pediatric residency programs pay you but maybe i'm wrong

best of luck
 
Hi all, so I’m a new grad interested in residency. My favorite is ortho however I like endo and Pedo as well. My gpa is 3.2, various ASDA activities/leadership, and research in undergrad & dental school. Since I was an average student I don’t know what my chances are for ortho residency or if I have a better chance to try Pedo or endo. I just don’t want to keep trying year after year after year for ortho and not get in. I’m open to any advice.Thanks!
A GPA of 3.2 means different class ranks at different schools due to grade inflation/deflation. What's your class rank?
 
You have a chance at all of those specialties if you are prepared to pay $$$.
It's good to know that an applicant with an average stat can get into ortho. In case my kids don't have good enough grades and MCAT scores for med schools and have to go to dental schools, I'll definitely convince them to apply for ortho. Working as a GP is hard. Cost is not an issue for me.
 
Start with answering the question of "Why do I want to specialize" and be honest with yourself, if the reason is "to make more money" I think you may be disappointed. I think its ok if that reason is "to have an easier job." The correct answer, in my opinion, is "because I love it"

I agree with others you should try being a quality GP for awhile and let the specialty choose you. That said if you really like all 3 PEDO will allow you to do some interceptive ortho and space maintenance while exposing you to endodontic procedures through pulpotomies. I personally wouldn't do pedo thats a tough gig.

yes you can get into all 3. difficulty level to get in probably orthodontics the hardest, then endodontics then pedatric. things are changing like someone mentioned above you can kind of buy yourself into a specialty now. also, i think most pediatric residency programs pay you but maybe i'm wrong

best of luck

To be honest I really like the ortho lifestyle/treatment planning process and i'd like to earn about the same as a GP with less hours due to family reasons. My top two are ortho and pedo. Could i apply for both in a cycle or do i have to apply for ortho this year and apply for pedo next year?
 
Start with answering the question of "Why do I want to specialize" and be honest with yourself, if the reason is "to make more money" I think you may be disappointed. I think its ok if that reason is "to have an easier job." The correct answer, in my opinion, is "because I love it"

I agree with others you should try being a quality GP for awhile and let the specialty choose you. That said if you really like all 3 PEDO will allow you to do some interceptive ortho and space maintenance while exposing you to endodontic procedures through pulpotomies. I personally wouldn't do pedo thats a tough gig.

yes you can get into all 3. difficulty level to get in probably orthodontics the hardest, then endodontics then pedatric. things are changing like someone mentioned above you can kind of buy yourself into a specialty now. also, i think most pediatric residency programs pay you but maybe i'm wrong

best of luck

Not all pedo programs are made equally. Many (the stipend paying ones without tuition & a good work/life balance) are notoriously difficult to match into without spectacular life experience, connections, stats, or all of the above.
 
It's good to know that an applicant with an average stat can get into ortho. In case my kids don't have good enough grades and MCAT scores for med schools and have to go to dental schools, I'll definitely convince them to apply for ortho. Working as a GP is hard. Cost is not an issue for me.

Even for almost 800K in combined tuition?
 
It's good to know that an applicant with an average stat can get into ortho. In case my kids don't have good enough grades and MCAT scores for med schools and have to go to dental schools, I'll definitely convince them to apply for ortho. Working as a GP is hard. Cost is not an issue for me.
Make sure to tell your kids to tell adcoms that dentistry was a backup in case they didn't get into medicine. I've heard they love to hear that 🤣
 
To be honest I really like the ortho lifestyle/treatment planning process and i'd like to earn about the same as a GP with less hours due to family reasons. My top two are ortho and pedo. Could i apply for both in a cycle or do i have to apply for ortho this year and apply for pedo next year?

Not sure if you can apply to both (I'm sure you can but this sounds really difficult with paperwork and separate letters of recommendation, etc) but in my opinion it's not a good idea as you're admitting to yourself you don't care which one you get into. From a superficial level it sounds like you may need some more time to make a leap into a specialty, if at all. I hope you don't take that the wrong way and this is an opinion through an internet forum so its hard to know a lot about you but you seem a little indecisive. With lower stats I believe it's possible to get in but you will have to be very passionate about xyz specialty and grind (network, attend xyz specialty annual meetings, take the ADAT, etc) which if you're applying to a completely different field at the same time Id bet a director and interview committee could see right through you on interview day should you get one. If you do it, don't tell ANYONE you're applying to both. I think you should apply to the one you think you will "love" and if that doesn't work out try for another specialty another year.

Also, read this thread before you invest a lot of time, $, and energy applying for Orthodontics.


I wouldn't let it scare you as much as it should inform you of a new reality. Orthodontics may be a different ball game now but it's still the easiest profession under the Dental Profession Umbrella, again, this is my opinion. You may not accomplish your goal of working less than a GP while earning the same, especially considering opportunity cost and paying significant $ to become an orthodontist, however, I bet you practice longer and will enjoy your profession more


Not all pedo programs are made equally. Many (the stipend paying ones without tuition & a good work/life balance) are notoriously difficult to match into without spectacular life experience, connections, stats, or all of the above.

I agree completely. If you put the same requirements to an orthodontics or endodontics residency the same thing happens (need to be top 10-15% class rank, great letters, in endodontics you may need a GPR/AEGD or practice experience, etc). I was casting a broad net on loose assumptions on the overall difficulty to get in. I know a lot about the endo residency world and theres just not as many programs. less seats= harder to get in. pretty rudimentary but I think overall accurate. I could be wrong. these are just internet opinions at the end of the day so take it with large grains of salt.
 
Not all pedo programs are made equally. Many (the stipend paying ones without tuition & a good work/life balance) are notoriously difficult to match into without spectacular life experience, connections, stats, or all of the above.
What are some of the best pedo programs in this regard?
 
Even for almost 800K in combined tuition?
Yes, at any cost. The more financially successful my kids will be, the less I will have to worry about them. I can't live forever to support them. A few of my older friends still have to support their adult kids because of their kids' bad career choices.

I am very ok with my kids making $200k/year working 3 days/week as an associate ortho like this ortho in this thread Another New Orthodontist Graduates with $1M+ in Student Loans. Except that my kids won't have $1M student loan debt.

For me, the hard part is not the money.....1 extra saturday of work every week should be more than enough to cover this. The hard part is my kids' willingness to go through 10+ years of education. Will they have good enough grades and class rank for ortho? That's another hard part.
 
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Make sure to tell your kids to tell adcoms that dentistry was a backup in case they didn't get into medicine. I've heard they love to hear that 🤣
I was a premed before. Took the the MCAT twice and did poorly on both. Took the DAT, which was 100x easier, and did very well.....and got accepted to a cheap state dental school. Many of my dental classmates were also premed students like me. As long as you have good GPA and DAT score, you'll get in somewhere. Even at the most expensive medical school in the US, it is extremely hard to get in there. $$$ cannot buy anything.

I know you are going to say things are different now and that dental schools and medical school are equally hard to get in. This is not true. I have nieces and nephews who are currently dental and medical students. And I know what their stats are.
 
I was a premed before. Took the the MCAT twice and did poorly on both. Took the DAT, which was 100x easier, and did very well.....and got accepted to a cheap state dental school. Many of my dental classmates were also premed students like me. As long as you have good GPA and DAT score, you'll get in somewhere. Even at the most expensive medical school in the US, it is extremely hard to get in there. $$$ cannot buy anything.

I know you are going to say things are different now and that dental schools and medical school are equally hard to get in. This is not true. I have nieces and nephews who are currently dental and medical students. And I know what their stats are.

Charles, I appreciate the perspective you bring to this forum and I actively seek out your posts. However, I've seen you bring this up before with the same anecdotes and it's disappointing to me to see a dentist so ardently defend the difficulty of medicine vs dentistry. Your experiences decades ago and with a small number of relatives do not come close to accurately describing the current landscape. Yes, MD schools, on average, have about +0.1 GPA difference with DDS programs. However, consider the numerous alternate pathways to medical school (e.g. DO programs, Caribbean MD, etc.) which are all substantially easier than getting into dental school.

A few of my HS classmates just gained admittance to MD schools within the last two years with extremely easy degrees from low-ranked universities with grades below the average of any DDS program. If I were to base my opinions off of them, I'd think medical school was less competitive than any other health profession.... But it's a limited anecdote that I know isn't reflective of the bigger picture.

There's not a single person in my dental class that wanted to be a physician, failed, and then ended up in dentistry. People favored it due to the perceived lifestyle, ownership opportunities, family business, etc. Now, there ARE a few that wish they had gone the medical route after having experienced the hellscape that is dental school... But there are just as many, if not more, physicians on the other side of that same fence.

Since I don't want to derail the thread, to the OP: your activities and research experience will be very beneficial for your hypothetical ortho app. Your GPA seems low, but GPA doesn't matter - class rank does. Apply broadly. Every year you're out of school, your chances diminish as there's not many ways to improve your application in private practice.
 
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But there are just as many, if not more, physicians on the other side of that same fence.
Agree with everything on your post, except maybe this part. I don't think that many physicians or med students want to jump ship to dental school.
 
Charles, I appreciate the perspective you bring to this forum and I actively seek out your posts. However, I've seen you bring this up before with the same anecdotes and it's disappointing to me to see a dentist so ardently defend the difficulty of medicine vs dentistry. Your experiences decades ago and with a small number of relatives do not come close to accurately describing the current landscape. Yes, MD schools, on average, have about +0.1 GPA difference with DDS programs. However, consider the numerous alternate pathways to medical school (e.g. DO programs, Caribbean MD, etc.) which are all substantially easier than getting into dental school.

A few of my HS classmates just gained admittance to MD schools within the last two years with extremely easy degrees from low-ranked universities with grades below the average of any DDS program. If I were to base my opinions off of them, I'd think medical school was less competitive than any other health profession.... But it's a limited anecdote that I know isn't reflective of the bigger picture.

There's not a single person in my dental class that wanted to be a physician, failed, and then ended up in dentistry. People favored it due to the perceived lifestyle, ownership opportunities, family business, etc. Now, there ARE a few that wish they had gone the medical route after having experienced the hellscape that is dental school... But there are just as many, if not more, physicians on the other side of that same fence.

Since I don't want to derail the thread, to the OP: your activities and research experience will be very beneficial for your hypothetical ortho app. Your GPA seems low, but GPA doesn't matter - class rank does. Apply broadly. Every year you're out of school, your chances diminish as there's not many ways to improve your application in private practice.
Using the undergrad GPAs to compare med and dental students is not very accurate. Med schools don't just accept students based on the undegrad GPAs alone. They also look at the MCAT score, which is extremely hard to do well at a national level. Med schools also favor the applicants who have double majors (or minor in another field), who volunteer, who do researches, who have leadership experience etc. And these extra stuff require a lot of time and efforts. For example, my niece who, is in medical school now, minored in English during her college years. She took a lot more classes every quarter than the students, who only had 1 major...and yet she was still able to maintain a very high GPA. Unfortunately, none of the med school in CA accepted her despite her very impressive academic accomplishments. She has to attend an out- of-state med school. Her older brother had a much lower stat than hers and got accepted to UCLA dental school.

Perhaps, I have a different perspective because all my nieces and nephews are Asians. Each school can only accept a certain percentage of Asian students every year. But the number of Asian applicants is very high every year....and all of them have great stats. If I think the process of getting into med schools is just as easy as dental schools, I wouldn't push my kids to work this hard. I would just let them take things easy.....go to a cheap 2-yr community college and then transfer to a 4-yr university like some of their cousins, who are now in dental schools.
 
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