Chances?

[amikhchi]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

I'm not sure if this is the right place for this but I keep reading about how EM is becoming more and more competitive as the years go by. I have tried looking into NRMP match data, and it provides me with some information as to how many spots there are, if there is ever any extra spots and average step 1 scores and all that jazz. I will be applying for the 2014 match as a US citizen FMG (SGU); The data isn't really stratified into US citizens vs true IMGs, or even by school or anything like that. I know i'm already at a disadvantage coming from a caribbean school. But I just want to know from your experiences, how difficult will it be landing an EM spot? Step 1 is 250, will be taking step 2 early enough to have the score before ERAS opens up, will have 1 SLOR, and more likely than not a LoR from surgery and IM. Where do I stand on the spectrum of likelihood of matching? Is there anything I can do from now to try and boost my chances?

Thanks.

 

[DreamingTheLive]

Carib is really going to hurt you. I heard rumblings from some of our school administrators that there will most likely be a "big push" to make sure less Allo AMGs don't match next year.

Step 1 is fine.

Can you do any/more EM aways? I'd say this is the BIGGEST thing you can do for yourself at this point. Go to a residency or two and impress and they won't care where you're from....and hopefully, they'll even write letters on your behalf stating as much.

Good luck, but I feel as though the road is going to get markedly tougher starting next match.

Hopefully RF or some other former US caribbs will chime in with some sound advice.

 

[Anonymous M4]

I'm only an M4 but I would say at least get another SLOR if you can. Can you do an audition rotation somewhere? I only had one SLOR until late in the game and it shut me out of some interviews because they filled up. So I got a few "we would love to interview you but policy says..." Also, a friend at another program said the PD said he wouldn't even look at apps without 2 SLORS. I would check out programs you are interested in and see what a "complete application" entails. Also, be prepared to apply more widely than an AMG with your stats.


Hope that helps

 

[RustedFox]

2009 SGU Grad here.

In a nutshell:

Carib status is going to hurt you. No two ways about it. Nobody cares if its SGU, Ross, or Wherever. Some programs (especially the "old" programs) are just going to "screen you out".

That being said, there were 25 SGU students that matched into EM this year.

https://apps.sgu.edu/ERD/2013/ResidPost.nsf/BYPGY?OpenView&RestrictToCategory=PGY1&Count=-1

(I tried to "insert link", but it wont work. No idea why.) EDIT: Looks like it works after all.

250 Step 1 score is solid. Strong work.

Do the same on Step 2.

You need to do another "away" rotation. It will be hard, but not impossible.

You need 2 SLORS. 3 might be better.

Apply broadly. Target those programs who have a history of taking SGU/Carib grads in the past. Look at the last several years of the "SGU Match List" (link above) to get an idea. Target "new" programs.

It can be done. It is becoming rarer every year, but it can be done.

PM me with questions.

 

[QuackaDO]

Just a question... how many people does SGU graduate from a class? Cuz if I read that link right it's somewhere around about 1784... give or take, lol! That list just kept going and going and going.... and going.

2009 SGU Grad here.

In a nutshell:

Carib status is going to hurt you. No two ways about it. Nobody cares if its SGU, Ross, or Wherever. Some programs (especially the "old" programs) are just going to "screen you out".

That being said, there were 25 SGU students that matched into EM this year.

https://apps.sgu.edu/ERD/2013/ResidPost.nsf/BYPGY?OpenView&RestrictToCategory=PGY1&Count=-1

(I tried to "insert link", but it wont work. No idea why.) EDIT: Looks like it works after all.

250 Step 1 score is solid. Strong work.

Do the same on Step 2.

You need to do another "away" rotation. It will be hard, but not impossible.

You need 2 SLORS. 3 might be better.

Apply broadly. Target those programs who have a history of taking SGU/Carib grads in the past. Look at the last several years of the "SGU Match List" (link above) to get an idea. Target "new" programs.

It can be done. It is becoming rarer every year, but it can be done.

PM me with questions.

 

[Apollyon]

Can you do any/more EM aways? I'd say this is the BIGGEST thing you can do for yourself at this point. Go to a residency or two and impress and they won't care where you're from....and hopefully, they'll even write letters on your behalf stating as much.

Not true. Granted, it is 10 years ago, now, but I impressed the hell out of them at Mt. Sinai - one of the attendings was all about me, until she asked me where I went to med school. I told her I was a Carib guy, and that shut the door just like that. Scott Weingart was a resident then, and he told his chair that he could work with me every day. Andy Jagoda wrote me a rec letter, and made a call for me. Still, Mt. Sinai didn't even rank me (even though, at my interview, one of 3 was with 2 chief residents, and they didn't even ask me any questions - Bill said to me, "Well, we know you already - there's nothing on this list that we have to ask. What do you want to know that you don't already?" - maybe that was a sign!).

I have a friend (Carib) that matched transitional after being ranked in the top 8 (the program has 8 TY spots). She was rotating in the ED, and the PD asked her why she wasn't doing EM instead of radiology (really?) - he asked her where she did med school, she told him, and, again, the door slammed shut without ceremony.

So, to say "no one will care" is (or, at least, was) not true. If there is going to be a push to match more allo AMGs, then that will become even more clear.

 

[amikhchi]

AFAIK, there are roughly 500-600 per entering class, and two classes per year, so I'd approximate around 1100 give/take go into the match every year. I don't think the number is as high as 1700 though. Thanks for the info guys. Unfortunately, the way our clinical rotations are structured, I will only have the chance to do 1 EM rotation before September; I am going to get a second rotation too so I can get a second SLOR (and try to get it for September or October at the latest), would it be better to submit the ERAS as early as possible with one SLOR and then update programs with the second SLOR once I have it, or wait until I have both to submit the applications?

I'm not sure of the whole ERAS process, I don't know if we can add letters once submitted.

Thanks,

 

[RustedFox]

You CAN add letters once submitted.

and you CAN do more than 1 EM rotation before September. I did mine in the summer. You just have to be a pain in the ass and insist on lining one up yourself.

 

[amikhchi]

No I meant the way my cores are scheduled i only had 4 weeks free before september and have already got a spot for one EM rotation, so the next one will have to be after I already submit. If I had another open block I would've definitely tried to get another EM rotation.

 

[DreamingTheLive]

Not true. Granted, it is 10 years ago, now, but I impressed the hell out of them at Mt. Sinai - one of the attendings was all about me, until she asked me where I went to med school. I told her I was a Carib guy, and that shut the door just like that. Scott Weingart was a resident then, and he told his chair that he could work with me every day. Andy Jagoda wrote me a rec letter, and made a call for me. Still, Mt. Sinai didn't even rank me (even though, at my interview, one of 3 was with 2 chief residents, and they didn't even ask me any questions - Bill said to me, "Well, we know you already - there's nothing on this list that we have to ask. What do you want to know that you don't already?" - maybe that was a sign!).

I have a friend (Carib) that matched transitional after being ranked in the top 8 (the program has 8 TY spots). She was rotating in the ED, and the PD asked her why she wasn't doing EM instead of radiology (really?) - he asked her where she did med school, she told him, and, again, the door slammed shut without ceremony.

So, to say "no one will care" is (or, at least, was) not true. If there is going to be a push to match more allo AMGs, then that will become even more clear.

Sure, you're probably right. Even though I always like to give the individual the benefit of the doubt.

Sidetracking a bit, but would former Caribb grads advocate pre-meds of TODAY to pursue the US FMG/Caribb route knowing the current/future crunch on residency spots?

 

[DreamingTheLive]

AFAIK, there are roughly 500-600 per entering class, and two classes per year, so I'd approximate around 1100 give/take go into the match every year. I don't think the number is as high as 1700 though. Thanks for the info guys. Unfortunately, the way our clinical rotations are structured, I will only have the chance to do 1 EM rotation before September; I am going to get a second rotation too so I can get a second SLOR (and try to get it for September or October at the latest), would it be better to submit the ERAS as early as possible with one SLOR and then update programs with the second SLOR once I have it, or wait until I have both to submit the applications?

I'm not sure of the whole ERAS process, I don't know if we can add letters once submitted.

Thanks,

500+ person classes x 2 per year!!!!???? Holy Christ, they have to be making boatloads of cash off physician hopefuls!

Screw opening up an Urgent Care, Med School has become big business. You can charge through the roof, no guarantees and they'll line up in droves to give you their (as of yet) hard hard and unearned cash (for most).

 

[JShephard]

500+ person classes x 2 per year!!!!???? Holy Christ, they have to be making boatloads of cash off physician hopefuls!

Screw opening up an Urgent Care, Med School has become big business. You can charge through the roof, no guarantees and they'll line up in droves to give you their (as of yet) hard hard and unearned cash (for most).

We all need to start a new Caribbean med school. We can have 5 teachers and online courses. 2000 grads a semester with 50k tuition.

I'm 100% in.

 

[gro2001]

We all need to start a new Caribbean med school. We can have 5 teachers and online courses. 2000 grads a semester with 50k tuition.

I'm 100% in.

Better yet, a Caribbean DNP program!

 

[DreamingTheLive]

Better yet, a Caribbean DNP program!

STOP right there!

 

[RustedFox]

As I remember, I had ~350 in my class. A number of them "just didn't come back" after first term. Those who did make it thru, made it thru, and matched well.

You can be foolish enough to throw money away on anything; its HOW you spend it and WHAT you do with that (time/money) that makes all the difference.

Now, I wanna go back and look at my class' rank list... see where folks ended up. Been a while.

 

[sylvanthus]

STOP right there!

Lol

 

[BADMD]

I'd also add that you should practice interviewing. Video tape yourself answering questions and watch them. Have others critique you. You want to smooth rough edges and be extremely likable. You are going to be up against other carib grad who have great scores too.

 

[DreamingTheLive]

Lol

Hey man, congrats on the EM/IM!

 

[sylvanthus]

Thanks man, congrats to you as well. It is good to be able to relax for a few months.

 

[QuackaDO]

Exactly my thoughts and the reason I asked... I really hoped I was wrong that they were accepting that many people but I guess it's true. Now I understand why so many people are bothered by the whole "RVU/for profit" thing considering it was one of the Carib guys that opened RVU. I don't know... just can't see how 500-600 people per class TWICE a year can even remotely be a good idea... it's like advertising you don't give a damn about who comes or what their chances are once they are in... you're just interested in filling seats. Sorry it's like that but such is life and such is the state of the world. If enough people want something and will pay for it I guess this is what happens even when there are not adequate resources (rotations and residency slots that will actually take Carib grads) to offer to the students. Sad IMO...

500+ person classes x 2 per year!!!!???? Holy Christ, they have to be making boatloads of cash off physician hopefuls!

Screw opening up an Urgent Care, Med School has become big business. You can charge through the roof, no guarantees and they'll line up in droves to give you their (as of yet) hard hard and unearned cash (for most).