Change Paths or?

[nutripharma]

Currently a senior at a state school and I need some input on my journey. I started at my current school freshman year. I transferred out after the first semester to go to a school that actually had a pharmacy program. This ended up being a costly disaster and I returned home to go to community college the following fall. I graduated with my AS in Chemistry and returned to my current school. I managed to stay on track and continue with my degree. Even though I stayed on track, my GPA definitely suffered. I got an F in Pre-calc due to a miserable professor who failed 96% of the class. I fought the grade, along with many classmates, and it was removed from my GPA but not my transcript. I have tried to contact PharmCAS for how to proceed with this special case. I took Pre-calc again and got a D, at the time I was taking Physics, Organic Chemistry, and 2 other classes along with it. I had a full time job so I could pay for my school as my parents couldn't. My father had cancer at the time and it was very rough. I managed to pull a C- in orgo and a B in physics, but the D also tanked my gpa. I took pre-calc once again and was able to get an A in it. I took calculus and got a D+, same scenario as I was taking Orgo 2, Physics 2, and 2 other classes. I withdrew from orgo 2, got a C+ in Phyiscs 2, and my GPA went down the drain again. I retook Orgo 1 & 2 and did significantly better as I got an A- in one and B+ in the other. I am retaking physics 2 and calculus in my spring semester. I have many upper level biology courses under my belt and have done fairly well in them.

Cumulative GPA: 2.97 / 3.06 without F in Pre-Calc
Science GPA: 2.98
Current school GPA: 3.42

I can most definitely get both GPA's up to a 3.3 or 3.4 by the end of my senior year, but that's not what schools will see. I may be working in a pharmacy beginning in August. I have excellent leadership and extracurricular experiences being that I am on the executive board for two honor societies and apart of many other associations. I have been on dean's list numerous times, and I am in 2 honor societies (will be 4 by spring). I have been working in a medical setting for almost a year and I work at my school as well in a highly regarded position. This fall semester, I plan on getting at least 100+ hours of community service.

I want to apply to the 3 year programs at MCPHS, University of St. Joseph, LECOM, UMES, and then Creighton's distance pathway. I will be taking my PCAT after studying with Dr. Collin's material in October.

So I ask, what are my chances?

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[pms_testosterone]

I don't believe there is any harm in applying this year (assuming you score well on the PCAT), but your chances will be better next year, of course, with pharmacy experience and a competitive GPA. Consider this a 2-year (or 3, if you're unlucky) project.

Also, you have a lot of special circumstances, so it would not hurt to be in touch with admissions @ the schools you are interested in, to be sure you meet any minimum cut-offs, etc.

 

[nutripharma]

If I do not get in this year, I may not apply next year. I'm very straightforward when it comes to my career/school situation and if I don't succeed the first time I usually move on to the next option.

 

[pms_testosterone]

@nutripharma Up to you, but realize that's not a particularly rational strategy. Even people with competitive grades often need to apply twice to get into pharmacy school.

 

[MyRealNameIs]

Honestly, you will probably need to get at least 90% on PCAT to have a chance.
You have way too many failed classes. I read through a lot of pharmacy schools' websites and they are very cautious about taking students that fail even 1 of their courses. It is especially troubling that you retook your courses and still did not get an A.

I don't get what "highly regarded position" and "medical setting" is. You are being way too vague. I can't think of a single highly regarded position an undergraduate student can get but maybe you are awesome and got a job that a very select few can get.
Make sure you get a job in pharmacy to bolster your application.

Many students took Pre-Calculus and Calculus in High School and got an A. The fact that you took it in college, failed it, retook it to fail it again (PreCalc) is terrible. I am just being honest.

If you are struggling with undergraduate course so much, even if you get in, you will struggle in pharmacy school. By the time you graduate, the saturated market will not be kind to the bottom pharmacists.

Honestly, I would suggest you move on to the next option instead of wasting time. Pharmacy school is hard. I went to a top ranked undergraduate program with a full time job too and that is not an excuse to fail classes.

 

[nutripharma]

Honestly, you will probably need to get at least 90% on PCAT to have a chance.
You have way too many failed classes. I read through a lot of pharmacy schools' websites and they are very cautious about taking students that fail even 1 of their courses. It is especially troubling that you retook your courses and still did not get an A.

I don't get what "highly regarded position" and "medical setting" is. You are being way too vague. I can't think of a single highly regarded position an undergraduate student can get but maybe you are awesome and got a job that a very select few can get.
Make sure you get a job in pharmacy to bolster your application.

Many students took Pre-Calculus and Calculus in High School and got an A. The fact that you took it in college, failed it, retook it to fail it again (PreCalc) is terrible. I am just being honest.

If you are struggling with undergraduate course so much, even if you get in, you will struggle in pharmacy school. By the time you graduate, the saturated market will not be kind to the bottom pharmacists.

Honestly, I would suggest you move on to the next option instead of wasting time. Pharmacy school is hard. I went to a top ranked undergraduate program with a full time job too and that is not an excuse to fail classes.

Hi... I failed the first class because the professor failed almost all of his students. We fought the school over it and the provost decided to remove the class from our gpa. The second time I couldn't keep up with pre-calculus because of my course load and work. I took Pre-calc and calc in highschool as well, but those don't count when it comes to pharmacy school reqs so I don't understand your point. If they did, I would be elated because they were honors and I got an A in both.

 

[MyRealNameIs]

Pre Calculus is not a pre-req. I also retook calculus in college and got an easy A. The point I was trying to make is that the courses are not hard. Calculus 1,2 is something high school students can get an A on. If you took them in high school, I really don't get how you failed it. First time ok, your professor sucked. Second time? You took Calculus. How do you fail pre calculus? Honestly, I didn't even go to my Calculus class in college. I just showed up to class on test dates since it was my second time taking it.

Sorry I am really not trying to be harsh. If you look in the forum, there are students that get kicked out of pharmacy school because they couldn't handle the difficulty of the curriculum. They are in 80k debt and wasted 2 years. If you can't even handle easy classes, how do you expect to succeed? Many people, including myself worked during school. It is not an excuse that good schools will take.

Maybe you will get into pharmacy school. Maybe, you will even get through pharmacy school. But my level of intelligence is probably about average or slightly above average in pharmacy school. With how saturated the job market is, there is a good chance the bottom of the class will not have a easy time finding a job. If you are confident you can do well in a significantly tougher curriculum despite your past failure, competing against other smart people go ahead. I know some people do terrible in undergraduate and succeed later because they had terrible study habits that they fixed. But I just wanted to give you an honest opinion instead of "I am sure if you try hard, you will do well" which is bull****.

Also, the reason why I asked you to change is because you said "if I don't succeed the first time I usually move on to the next option."
You are obviously not that set on the profession. Some people talk about how there is nothing else besides pharmacy that they really want to be. They are desperate and willing to do anything and everything. You don't seem that way. You are fine moving on so I encouraged you to move on.

If you really like the profession, I guess wasting few months isn't bad. Study hard for your PCAT. See if you can score at least an 85.

 

[nutripharma]

Pre Calculus is not a pre-req. I also retook calculus in college and got an easy A. The point I was trying to make is that the courses are not hard. Calculus 1,2 is something high school students can get an A on. If you took them in high school, I really don't get how you failed it. First time ok, your professor sucked. Second time? You took Calculus. How do you fail pre calculus? Honestly, I didn't even go to my Calculus class in college. I just showed up to class on test dates since it was my second time taking it.

Sorry I am really not trying to be harsh. If you look in the forum, there are students that get kicked out of pharmacy school because they couldn't handle the difficulty of the curriculum. They are in 80k debt and wasted 2 years. If you can't even handle easy classes, how do you expect to succeed? Many people, including myself worked during school. It is not an excuse that good schools will take.

Maybe you will get into pharmacy school. Maybe, you will even get through pharmacy school. But my level of intelligence is probably about average or slightly above average in pharmacy school. With how saturated the job market is, there is a good chance the bottom of the class will not have a easy time finding a job. If you are confident you can do well in a significantly tougher curriculum despite your past failure, competing against other smart people go ahead. I know some people do terrible in undergraduate and succeed later because they had terrible study habits that they fixed. But I just wanted to give you an honest opinion instead of "I am sure if you try hard, you will do well" which is bull****.

Also, the reason why I asked you to change is because you said "if I don't succeed the first time I usually move on to the next option."
You are obviously not that set on the profession. Some people talk about how there is nothing else besides pharmacy that they really want to be. They are desperate and willing to do anything and everything. You don't seem that way. You are fine moving on so I encouraged you to move on.

If you really like the profession, I guess wasting few months isn't bad. Study hard for your PCAT. See if you can score at least an 85.

So Pre-cal is definitely a pre-req for the schools I want to apply to. When I asked for advice, I was looking for the counsel to come from someone who has had the experience. Thank you for your input, good luck in school. I see you're applying as well.
Have a nice day.

 

[toidalente]

So Pre-cal is definitely a pre-req for the schools I want to apply to. When I asked for advice, I was looking for the counsel to come from someone who has had the experience. Thank you for your input, good luck in school. I see you're applying as well.
Have a nice day.

No, you asked what are your chances of getting in. While you have a decent chance of getting into A pharmacy school, you don't sound committed. Don't bother, save your money, time, and effort.

 

[nutripharma]

No, you asked what are your chances of getting in. While you have a decent chance of getting into A pharmacy school, you don't sound committed. Don't bother, save your money, time, and effort.

Nice edit.

 

[toidalente]

What is the reason for only 3 year programs?

 

[nutripharma]

What is the reason for only 3 year programs?

I want to finish as soon as possible. I am applying to a 4 year school as well. My cousin and aunt were the one's who told me 3 year schools exist. All awhile, I was looking at these sames schools not knowing they had 3 year programs. Both of them are pharmacists, but they dreaded doing the full 8 years. Also, my family's financial situation is tough and I want to minimize the debt. I'm in the gray area where I do not qualify for financial aid and my profile does not show financial need so my school will not give me scholarships. Even though my parents have gone through extremely tough times financially, I've never received a free dime from anywhere.

 

[toidalente]

I want to finish as soon as possible. I am applying to a 4 year school as well. My cousin and aunt were the one's who told me 3 year schools exist. All awhile, I was looking at these sames schools not knowing they had 3 year programs. Both of them are pharmacists, but they dreaded doing the full 8 years. Also, my family's financial situation is tough and I want to minimize the debt. I'm in the gray area where I do not qualify for financial aid and my profile does not show financial need so my school will not give me scholarships. Even though my parents have gone through extremely tough times financially, I've never received a free dime from anywhere.

Good idea to factor in financing/cost, just remember that there are some 4 year programs that are cheaper than 3 year especially with in-state residency depending on where you live.

 

[nutripharma]

Good idea to factor in financing/cost, just remember that there are some 4 year programs that are cheaper than 3 year especially with in-state residency depending on where you live.

The 4 year school I would like to attend is the cheapest pharmacy school I've seen so far. 16k per year is like heaven.

 

[SClENCE]

If you are failing classes in undergrad why should I believe that you can handle pharmacy school? This is what every pharmacy school will say when they see your grades so you better nail the PCAT and come up with some good pharmacy experience.

 

[nutripharma]

If you are failing classes in undergrad why should I believe that you can handle pharmacy school? This is what every pharmacy school will say when they see your grades so you better nail the PCAT and come up with some good pharmacy experience.

My coursework from the last year will show I can efficiently handle anything that comes my way. Like I said, I did infinitely better this past year and I'm still dealing with the same issues that I had before. I've just learned better time management and organization skills. Should I prepare a statement to respond to this question if I was asked in an interview?

 

[Jbrl]

My coursework from the last year will show I can efficiently handle anything that comes my way. Like I said, I did infinitely better this past year and I'm still dealing with the same issues that I had before. I've just learned better time management and organization skills. Should I prepare a statement to respond to this question if I was asked in an interview?

Yes. It's a clear red flag in your apps. Lots of retakes. Lots of justification, which is understandable, but it's the main message I took from your OP.

My father got diagnosed with cancer in my P1 year. I worked 20h a week, was taking 18+ creds, and was conducting research, all while coming to visit him at the hospital and at home when I was free. Point is, we all have our crosses to bear. Take care in how you explain your situation. The goal isn't to garner sympathy or pity, though a little of each wouldn't hurt. Just be sure you are communicating something along the framework of "A and B aren't a reflection of my aptitude and preparedness because of Y and Z, which affected my performance greatly. I have made steps to improve, as shown by my recent track record and evidenced by C, D and E." Demonstrate that you have the emotional fortitude and perseverence to power through the misfortunes that have befallen you.

One question I would have is why you've needed to take your pre-calc and calc courses so many times. It's not quite enough to say that you had an F the first time in pre-calc because of a particular professor - especially if your next time taking the course only nets you a D+. If your ECs are jeopardizing your academic performance + full time job, drop them.

Of the schools you listed, you will get into at least one with good execution and decent PCAT. Just look at their websites for admission averages.

 

[MyRealNameIs]

Like I said, if you get a good PCAT score, you may get into some low tier pharmacy school

But pharmacy jobs are limited and many people struggle to find jobs. You can see current pharmacists talking about it in the forum. Just be sure you are passionate about pharmacy before you choose this path. Because it is not easy. Just felt like you didn't really care and if so, I would not recommend it.

You may be unemployed after you spend so much time and money because they would hire someone from reputable pharmacy school over you.

 

[nutripharma]

Yes. It's a clear red flag in your apps. Lots of retakes. Lots of justification, which is understandable, but it's the main message I took from your OP.

My father got diagnosed with cancer in my P1 year. I worked 20h a week, was taking 18+ creds, and was conducting research, all while coming to visit him at the hospital and at home when I was free. Point is, we all have our crosses to bear. Take care in how you explain your situation. The goal isn't to garner sympathy or pity, though a little of each wouldn't hurt. Just be sure you are communicating something along the framework of "A and B aren't a reflection of my aptitude and preparedness because of Y and Z, which affected my performance greatly. I have made steps to improve, as shown by my recent track record and evidenced by C, D and E." Demonstrate that you have the emotional fortitude and perseverence to power through the misfortunes that have befallen you.

One question I would have is why you've needed to take your pre-calc and calc courses so many times. It's not quite enough to say that you had an F the first time in pre-calc because of a particular professor - especially if your next time taking the course only nets you a D+. If your ECs are jeopardizing your academic performance + full time job, drop them.

Of the schools you listed, you will get into at least one with good execution and decent PCAT. Just look at their websites for admission averages.

Great advice. I cannot drop my jobs because I will be out of school and most likely homeless. I am working to pay for school and pay some of my parents' bills. I've been able to handle a heavy courseload while doing everything else for the past year. My family situation has only gotten worse but my grades have gotten better. I'm getting mostly A's and a few B+'s. Should any of this be discussed in my personal statement?

 

[nutripharma]

Also, when my Fall 2015 grades are posted, can I upload them to pharmcas? If so, will the schools I apply to look at them. I want to have my apps done by mid-October to early-November.

 

[Jbrl]

Great advice. I cannot drop my jobs because I will be out of school and most likely homeless. I am working to pay for school and pay some of my parents' bills. I've been able to handle a heavy courseload while doing everything else for the past year. My family situation has only gotten worse but my grades have gotten better. I'm getting mostly A's and a few B+'s. Should any of this be discussed in my personal statement?

Yup. I assumed you wouldn't be able to drop your job, so I suggested you drop your ECs. You don't have to have a lot of ECs if there is a veritable reason for the lack of it (which you have enough of, really, at least as far as admission goes). During pharmacy school, just choose ECs you can't see yourself doing without and drop everything one at a time until you've reached your personal homeostasis. Can even be just one activity or organization. Employers and adcoms will understand.

What you need to ask yourself is - if your family situation is getting worse, not better, and school will only get harder, not easier, how will you manage? You need to convince the adcoms (and yourself) that you will be able to balance your private and professional life. Therefore, leave out any mention of your family situation getting worse. As for your upward trend, I would discuss it briefly, but not overly focus on it due to character limit. They may very well choose to ask you to expound upon your academic record in-person, and that's the time that you can elaborate fully - without pulling the pity/sympathy card. Keep your narrative centered not on what has happened, but how you rose above it all and gained valuable experience/skills/qualities you will carry with you to pharmacy school.

I don't know if pharmacy schools give substantial scholarships based on need (I assume not), but it doesn't hurt to ask once you have been accepted. Regardless, I'm sure there are many need-based 3rd party scholarships out there. Be resourceful. You are a perfect candidate for those because you are clearly in need of financial assistance.