Changing name for URM advantage?

[Santana90]

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I guess I'm the only one going on a limb here. What if your friend were to say he's half Asian half Hispanic. That when he changes his last name that he lived with his parents got divorced and that he took his moms last name; who is the Hispanic one.

That way he has a story to tell them if asked. Let us know how it goes! OP please deliver!

No he's full Asian but he is often mistaken as being Hispanic. We live in a largely Hispanic community and I think he's mistaken for being of Hispanic descent not only for his looks, but also for his immersion in the Hispanic culture. I mean, he knows a lot of Spanish and probably eats more authentic Mexican food than I do (I'm Hispanic).

 

[Espadaleader]

So this guy has a 3.96, 32 MCAT (11,10,11), 2nd author pub, great ECs, LORs, no red flags? If he's not in a school (at least one) race wont help him. This is so wrong. So you're saying that just because he speaks some Spanish and eats Mexican food he can claim being Hispanic? SDN is getting out of hand. That's just like me saying because I speak a little Japanese and eat bento boxes I can claim that I am Asian. Like I said in that thread about liars, this is messed up. What makes this guy think he can appropriate and masquerade as somethings hes not. I hope he changes his name so get can get outed for the fake that he is.

 

[Santana90]

Please let "your friend" do this because he's clearly racist and idiotic. He'll get caught as he deserves. If not, we run the risk he'll get a real interview somewhere and get in. We don't need unethical jerk-offs like him.

I can tell you first-hand that my friend is not racist. And he's not and idiot. This cycle just rattled him to the core. He's not himself and he hasn't actually done anything unethical. Think of what he's going through before you start shredding him to pieces you jerko

 

[487806]

Well, this thread (expectedly) took quite a turn

 

[Santana90]

So this guy has a 3.96, 32 MCAT (11,10,11), 2nd author pub, great ECs, LORs, no red flags? If he's not in a school (at least one) race wont help him. This is so wrong. So you're saying that just because he speaks some Spanish and eats Mexican food he can claim being Hispanic? SDN is getting out of hand. That's just like me saying because I speak a little Japanese and eat bento boxes I can claim that I am Asian. Like I said in that thread about liars, this is messed up. What makes this guy think he can appropriate and masquerade as somethings hes not. I hope he changes his name so get can get outed for the fake that he is.

It's my fault for using that example. I was just trying to say that he's probably embraced the Hispanic culture and community more than some URM applicants claiming to have "deep connections with their community." He knows the problems in our community: the gangs, poverty, the underserved, etc because he has lived in this community.

 

[Santana90]

I think your friend should change his name to Running Deer Hernandez, claim Hispanic / Native American status, wear a sombrero/headdress hybrid at all of his interviews, and speak fluent Spanish and Cherokee.

Also, he should get everyone in his family to change their surname to Hernandez as well and teach them Spanish. Rosetta Stone works great!


...or he (you) could start taking all the time spent blaming ORM status and plotting to obtain URM status and go do something noteworthy to put on his (your) re-application.

I assure you "my friend" is not me. I, myself, am a successful URM applicant with similar ECs but lower stats than my friend. You joke about it now since you're not the one having a rough time.

Btw my friend is quite proficient in Spanish.

 

[SunsFun]

My friend is one of the nicest and hard working people I know, and it's really messed up that you hope he doesn't get in. The process has been really rough on him; he has worked so hard for the past four years and schools hasn't even given him a chance to prove himself in an interview. Yeah his idea seems unethical but it's not like he did it or even going to do it. Put yourself in his shoes. Talk about lack of sympathy sheesh

Why is it messed up that I hope that some who is going to blatantly lie about his race on the application doesn't get in? Obviously I have no problem with him getting in if he doesn't lie, but if he does then yeah I don't want him around. And I don't usually even care about premeds embellishing their ECs but this kind of stuff crosses the line.

And don't give me a sob story here. More than 50% of applicants don't get in at all. How many seriously consider lying about race to game the system? Some people apply 2,3, and even 4 times and I have yet to hear from a single person thinking about changing the race rather than trying to honestly improve. Plenty of us are nontraditional applicants and have years of experience on top of other adult obligations we face after college. I am not moved al all by your friend being lazy and entitled after he couldn't get into medical school straight after college.

 

[Chrissisissi]

Tell your friend to chill. I know a lot of people who were accepted in June.

 

[NontradCA]

It's my fault for using that example. I was just trying to say that he's probably embraced the Hispanic culture and community more than some URM applicants claiming to have "deep connections with their community." He knows the problems in our community: the gangs, poverty, the underserved, etc because he has lived in this community.

I get you. So, kinda like how Eminem is really black right? Bro, Do you even rationally think?

 

[Gauss44]

So I have this friend who applied this cycle and hasn't had any luck in landing any interviews. He doesn't have any red flags, has decent ECs and good enough stats. This friend of mine has grown increasingly restless and bitter in the past few weeks and has often blamed his ORM status for his situation as well as being a CA resident. He has lost all hope for this current cycle and is setting his sights on a huge comeback in the next cycle. However, he's not planning to do any new EC activities or boost his grades. Instead, he is seriously planning to change his legal name into something that sounds more URM (like Jose Lopez). He is Asian but is often mistaken as a Hispanic and so he is set on taking advantage of this in the next cycle.

What do you guys think? I know spinachdip will disapprove

Is he Hispanic and Asian? If so, a name change might arguably be a way of overcoming discrimination.

If he isn't Hispanic, it's clearly a dishonest method IMO. If he doesn't mark the URM box, and only changes his name, it might not violate any rules, and also might not help him. If he checks the box untruthfully and ever gets called on it, I think there are substantial penalties.

Asians from Hispanic countries (including the Philippines), I believe are legally "Hispanic," and I believe that they do fit both AAMC's and the US Census's definition - which are the only relevant definitions I'm aware of. I think that the notion that a person cannot be more than one race or ethnicity is ridiculous, and seen as ridiculous by most people these days.

 

[ChemEngMD]

Those are some serious stats! I have 3 friends with much lower stats who got multiple interviews and acceptances with way lower stats and very few ECs and they are totally convinced it's because they are URM. I hate to rehash the argument, but I feels for your friend. If he/she can't get in after this cycle I say screw it! Do the name change!

I have some Egyptian (1/8) in me so I'm going to be claiming URM as an African American!

I assure you "my friend" is not me. I, myself, am a successful URM applicant with similar ECs but lower stats than my friend. You joke about it now since you're not the one having a rough time.

Btw my friend is quite proficient in Spanish.

Slipperybutter, what you and Santana90's friend are failing to recognize is that this is NOT a one time lie. You will have to live this lie out for the rest of your professional life.

You better plan to have everybody at that university know that lie and for it to follow you forever if you are discovered. As soon as you are admitted or interview as a URM, you will begin getting immersed in the Multicultural Community:

• Invited to multicultural second look events or pre-interview events;
• Your name will be put on a registry with the school where all of the people in the multicultural center will know you and will know your "background";
• You may be asked to serve on panels and committees where you represent your ethnicity's interests and view point (there aren't that many of us in a school so it happens a lot);
• The president of SNMA (or LMSA) WILL know about you, because they get lists of all of the "multicultural" students and their ethnicity for recruiting and support reasons.

Trust me that if you do not get uncovered at the interview/admissions point, you WILL get uncovered by the multicultural students in a class. Medical school classes are VERY small, and the URM groups are even smaller. We're talking only 12 or 13 of us in a class of 150 - they know one another.

You may never get in trouble for intentionally lying about your ethnicity in order to garner some "URM advantage", but you will know inside that what you did was wrong, and those of us who truly represent our communities, and have been proud "URMs" long before medical school was even in the picture, will know what you did.

If you can live with that then great. Just understand all of the people you will be directly offending by your masquerade, and realize that some may take it extremely personal - and it may not end well for you.

BTW @SlipperyButter - I addressed this to you because you and I both know that the people of Northern Africa and the Middle East are considered "Caucasian" by the census bureau. You know that you are not African-American, and at only 1/8 Egyptian, your argument is even shakier. Are you prepared to look an older Black physician interviewer, who has gone through their fair share of trials and tribulations just by being a POC practicing medicine, in the face and tell him or her, "Yep, I'm African American! My great grand-dad was from Egypt!". It's a slippery slope towards leading a false identity.

 

[kyamh]

Personally, I would have a self esteem crisis if I got into medical school on a lie...constantly wondering whether I ought to be there....ugh, who needs that kind if insecurity?

 

[Shjanzey]

This thread and the Culture of Lies thread should get together and have a baby (URM of course).

 

[stlrams22]

So I have this friend who applied this cycle and hasn't had any luck in landing any interviews. He doesn't have any red flags, has decent ECs and good enough stats. This friend of mine has grown increasingly restless and bitter in the past few weeks and has often blamed his ORM status for his situation as well as being a CA resident. He has lost all hope for this current cycle and is setting his sights on a huge comeback in the next cycle. However, he's not planning to do any new EC activities or boost his grades. Instead, he is seriously planning to change his legal name into something that sounds more URM (like Jose Lopez). He is Asian but is often mistaken as a Hispanic and so he is set on taking advantage of this in the next cycle.

What do you guys think? I know spinachdip will disapprove

Your friend is disgusting. Since this person doesn't have any character than its no surprise they haven't been accepted. Your friend doesn't deserve to be accepted and i hope never is accepted. It would be nice if the URM status would not be considered. Applicants should be considered only for their stats and other qualities, race and ethnicity should not play any role.

 

[Mornhavon]

I know this is making waves,

But I totally support what your friend is doing. The system is unjust- you shouldn't be able to get points for sucking c**** or having a different skin color (hey anyone ever hear of this cool thing called Apartheid?).

The question is can he pull it off? If he can, kudos.

 

[ninjaman22]

I know this is making waves,

But I totally support what your friend is doing. The system is unjust- you shouldn't be able to get points for sucking c**** or having a different skin color (hey anyone ever hear of this cool thing called Apartheid?).

The question is can he pull it off? If he can, kudos.

wow

 

[MDforMee]

I know this is making waves,

But I totally support what your friend is doing. The system is unjust- you shouldn't be able to get points for sucking c**** or having a different skin color (hey anyone ever hear of this cool thing called Apartheid?).

The question is can he pull it off? If he can, kudos.

I'm a little confused. You said that the system is unjust because it admits people based on skin color, and that this should not happen; but you're encouraging someone to lie about their skin color to get in? That's like, a double negative, man.

 

[midnight0il]

I know this is making waves,

But I totally support what your friend is doing. The system is unjust- you shouldn't be able to get points for sucking c**** or having a different skin color (hey anyone ever hear of this cool thing called Apartheid?).

The question is can he pull it off? If he can, kudos.

 

[baconshrimps]

My friend is one of the nicest and hard working people I know, and it's really messed up that you hope he doesn't get in. The process has been really rough on him; he has worked so hard for the past four years and schools hasn't even given him a chance to prove himself in an interview. Yeah his idea seems unethical but it's not like he did it or even going to do it. Put yourself in his shoes. Talk about lack of sympathy sheesh

There is absolutely no sympathy in med school admissions process, and to be frank, when someone talks about taking BS shortcuts to get in, it is offensive to those people who have also overcome adversity and busted their ass to secure an interview or an acceptance. Tell them to apply to DO if they can't get into MD school. If their numbers and EC's are as good as you suggest, then they shouldn't have a problem getting into DO school - and I apologize in advance to any DO students reading this, but the truth of the matter is that in the majority of cases, people are applying to DO as a backup to MD.

 

[Lucca]

I know this is making waves,

But I totally support what your friend is doing. The system is unjust- you shouldn't be able to get points for sucking c**** or having a different skin color (hey anyone ever hear of this cool thing called Apartheid?).

The question is can he pull it off? If he can, kudos.

You actually don't know anything about anything.

 

[baconshrimps]

I know this is making waves,

But I totally support what your friend is doing. The system is unjust- you shouldn't be able to get points for sucking c**** or having a different skin color (hey anyone ever hear of this cool thing called Apartheid?).

The question is can he pull it off? If he can, kudos.

ATTENTION EVERYONE:
THE U.S. MD ADMISSIONS
SYSTEM OPERATES LIKE
A P A R T H E I D.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

I can tell you first-hand that my friend is not racist. And he's not and idiot. This cycle just rattled him to the core. He's not himself and he hasn't actually done anything unethical. Think of what he's going through before you start shredding him to pieces you jerko

Calling me a jerk and telling me to re-think things is not going to make me condone the idea of unethical behavior. I've gone through a lot more than being rejected from school. One thing that never crossed my mind is to usurp surnames to exploit the system into accepting me. Seriously, I hope you try this. People like you don't deserve to be a part of this profession.

 

[ChemEngMD]

ATTENTION EVERYONE:
THE U.S. MD ADMISSIONS
SYSTEM OPERATES LIKE
A P A R T H E I D.

Don't forget that being a URM is tantamount to performing fellatio!

I <3 SDN

 

[Lucca]

I can tell you first-hand that my friend is not racist. And he's not and idiot. This cycle just rattled him to the core. He's not himself and he hasn't actually done anything unethical. Think of what he's going through before you start shredding him to pieces you jerko

Look, your friend is scared. I get it. We get it. Trying to perform at a high level, constantly, is very stressful and at times we all snap, have an anxiety attack, and lose all confidence in ourselves.

What your friend is doing right now is defending his ego and self image by transfer blame from controllables (his application) to uncontrollables (his race). Here's some advice for life: Control the controllables. What your feiend needs right now is a good friend who will honestly scrutinize his entire application and jnterview experiences and point out the red flag for him. Sure, there might be no red flag. At his stats I think he should have a 65% chance of admittance or something like that - or a 35% chance of rejection. Think about it, if you ran his application 10 times, he would be out of luck 3-4 times.

Build your friend's confidence back up. That's what he really needs. If it comes down to it, he should really be seeking opportunities to strengthen his application for the next cycle, maybe even get involved in the Hispanic community if he really cares about it so much.

If he were to change his name here's what would happen:

The second med school gets tough he's going to wonder if he was ever good enough to get in and if he deserves to be there, totally destroying his false confidence.

All other Asians at the school will shun him for rejecting his culture for another, more distant culture for the sole purpose of gaming admissions.

All hispanic people will shun him for the same reason.

Yup, white people too.

Black people.....

You get it. He will be unhappy, a liar, a fraud, unconfident, unwanted, friendless, and at peril of being discovered by the administration.

 

[MDforMee]

This thread sucks. We don't even know how many and/or which schools OP's friend applied to. Kind of reminds me of this guy I saw on here a little while ago that is a 2 time reapplicant that's an Arizona resident but applied to the same 8 schools each time, 7 of them being public out of state schools. Then, he comes here to bitch and blame other people, just like OP's friend.

Also, with this person's MCAT and GPA, he should have had no problem landing an interview at an MD school somewhere if he applied broadly enough.

We also don't know how late his application went in, or if his LORs have a red flag. His essays may be garbage. He may have a misdemeanor that he didn't say anything about. All sorts of things can screw this up.

But no, it's because of institutional racism that your friend didn't get any interviews. BOOOOOOOO

 

[Santana90]

Your friend is disgusting. Since this person doesn't have any character than its no surprise they haven't been accepted. Your friend doesn't deserve to be accepted and i hope never is accepted. It would be nice if the URM status would not be considered. Applicants should be considered only for their stats and other qualities, race and ethnicity should not play any role.

My friend is not accepted because he wasn't even given the chance to show his character during and interview. He worked hard for his stats and you don't have the right to say he doesn't deserve to get in; he didn't do anything wrong! Disgusting? St. Louis rams are disgusting.

 

[MDforMee]

My friend is not accepted because he wasn't even given the chance to show his character during and interview. He worked hard for his stats and you don't have the right to say he doesn't deserve to get in; he didn't do anything wrong! Disgusting? St. Louis rams are disgusting.

Okay, you need to stop posting, now.

This thread is snowballing into arguments and BS.

Read my last post, above.

 

[Santana90]

I know this is making waves,

But I totally support what your friend is doing. The system is unjust- you shouldn't be able to get points for sucking c**** or having a different skin color (hey anyone ever hear of this cool thing called Apartheid?).

The question is can he pull it off? If he can, kudos.

Even though I don't fully support my friend's idea, I do really feel for him. It's refreshing to see another person here understand. The system is very unfair :/

 

[Lucca]

Even though I don't fully support my friend's idea, I do really feel for him. It's refreshing to see another person here understand. The system is very unfair :/

Ooooohhhh I get it now.


By any chance, do you want to go into derm?

 

[SlipperyButter]

Slipperybutter, what you and Santana90's friend are failing to recognize is that this is NOT a one time lie. You will have to live this lie out for the rest of your professional life.

You better plan to have everybody at that university know that lie and for it to follow you forever if you are discovered. As soon as you are admitted or interview as a URM, you will begin getting immersed in the Multicultural Community:

• Invited to multicultural second look events or pre-interview events;
• Your name will be put on a registry with the school where all of the people in the multicultural center will know you and will know your "background";
• You may be asked to serve on panels and committees where you represent your ethnicity's interests and view point (there aren't that many of us in a school so it happens a lot);
• The president of SNMA (or LMSA) WILL know about you, because they get lists of all of the "multicultural" students and their ethnicity for recruiting and support reasons.

Trust me that if you do not get uncovered at the interview/admissions point, you WILL get uncovered by the multicultural students in a class. Medical school classes are VERY small, and the URM groups are even smaller. We're talking only 12 or 13 of us in a class of 150 - they know one another.

You may never get in trouble for intentionally lying about your ethnicity in order to garner some "URM advantage", but you will know inside that what you did was wrong, and those of us who truly represent our communities, and have been proud "URMs" long before medical school was even in the picture, will know what you did.

If you can live with that then great. Just understand all of the people you will be directly offending by your masquerade, and realize that some may take it extremely personal - and it may not end well for you.

BTW @SlipperyButter - I addressed this to you because you and I both know that the people of Northern Africa and the Middle East are considered "Caucasian" by the census bureau. You know that you are not African-American, and at only 1/8 Egyptian, your argument is even shakier. Are you prepared to look an older Black physician interviewer, who has gone through their fair share of trials and tribulations just by being a POC practicing medicine, in the face and tell him or her, "Yep, I'm African American! My great grand-dad was from Egypt!". It's a slippery slope towards leading a false identity.

First and foremost, just because the "system" says "Middle Easterners" are Caucasian doesn't mean we aren't an underrepresented minority group and to assume that as a person of color that I haven't gone through trials and tribulations associated with it. Second, there are a fistful of African countries and millions of African born people who aren't "black."
If the term African American meant black then it should just say so. However it doesn't, it says African American; american (check), African ancestors (check). It's kind of a racist thing to assume that I'm not African American or partially because my skin happens to be two shades lighter then what you would normally associate with African American!

In today's society, middle easterners are one judged and scrutinized by other members of society for appearance and beliefs. If you think that I or other middle easterners have nothing in common with an "older Black physician" (apparently your criteria for being African American ) then you're extremely wrong. Extra bonus points because I have Egyptian heritage, culture , and ancestry!

Egypt is Africa btw

 

[Santana90]

This thread sucks. We don't even know how many and/or which schools OP's friend applied to. Kind of reminds me of this guy I saw on here a little while ago that is a 2 time reapplicant that's an Arizona resident but applied to the same 8 schools each time, 7 of them being public out of state schools. Then, he comes here to bitch and blame other people, just like OP's friend.

Also, with this person's MCAT and GPA, he should have had no problem landing an interview at an MD school somewhere if he applied broadly enough.

We also don't know how late his application went in, or if his LORs have a red flag. His essays may be garbage. He may have a misdemeanor that he didn't say anything about. All sorts of things can screw this up.

But no, it's because of institutional racism that your friend didn't get any interviews. BOOOOOOOO

My friend applied to about 25 schools (all of CA, a lot on the east coast, Midwest and even some Texas schools). He applied broadly and he has a clean record. No red flags as far as I know. We got 2 of our LORs from the same people except for one.

 

[MDforMee]

My friend applied to about 25 schools (all of CA, a lot on the east coast, Midwest and even some Texas schools). He applied broadly and he has a clean record. No red flags as far as I know. We got 2 of our LORs from the same people except for one.

You should tell us this before speculating about racist intent.

Okay, so 25 schools; California isn't fair (I'm a CA resident, believe me when I say that I know what I'm talking about) so taking 8 schools off of the top leaves 17. He should not have applied to Texas schools, and there are a lot of schools in Texas. How many Texas schools did he apply to?

And, which schools did he apply to -- specifically -- back East and in the Midwest?

 

[Santana90]

Look, your friend is scared. I get it. We get it. Trying to perform at a high level, constantly, is very stressful and at times we all snap, have an anxiety attack, and lose all confidence in ourselves.

What your friend is doing right now is defending his ego and self image by transfer blame from controllables (his application) to uncontrollables (his race). Here's some advice for life: Control the controllables. What your feiend needs right now is a good friend who will honestly scrutinize his entire application and jnterview experiences and point out the red flag for him. Sure, there might be no red flag. At his stats I think he should have a 65% chance of admittance or something like that - or a 35% chance of rejection. Think about it, if you ran his application 10 times, he would be out of luck 3-4 times.

Build your friend's confidence back up. That's what he really needs. If it comes down to it, he should really be seeking opportunities to strengthen his application for the next cycle, maybe even get involved in the Hispanic community if he really cares about it so much.

If he were to change his name here's what would happen:

The second med school gets tough he's going to wonder if he was ever good enough to get in and if he deserves to be there, totally destroying his false confidence.

All other Asians at the school will shun him for rejecting his culture for another, more distant culture for the sole purpose of gaming admissions.

All hispanic people will shun him for the same reason.

Yup, white people too.

Black people.....

You get it. He will be unhappy, a liar, a fraud, unconfident, unwanted, friendless, and at peril of being discovered by the administration.

Believe me, I'm trying my best to lift his confidence while staying as honest as possible. And honestly, I can't really find anything wrong in his application. I know it's easy for you guys to just slam him for this idea but you gotta see it from his shoes. Sure throw in your statistics but applying isn't something that is easily done 3-4 times.

Btw, fallacy alert. You're sounding like that direct tv commercial with your last statements.

 

[MDforMee]

First and foremost, just because the "system" says "Middle Easterners" are Caucasian doesn't mean we aren't an underrepresented minority group and to assume that as a person of color that I haven't gone through trials and tribulations associated with it. Second, there are a fistful of African countries and millions of African born people who aren't "black."
If the term African American meant black then it should just say so. However it doesn't, it says African American; american (check), African ancestors (check). It's kind of a racist thing to assume that I'm not African American or partially because my skin happens to be two shades lighter then what you would normally associate with African American!

In today's society, middle easterners are one judged and scrutinized by other members of society for appearance and beliefs. If you think that I or other middle easterners have nothing in common with an "older Black physician" (apparently your criteria for being African American ) then you're extremely wrong. Extra bonus points because I have Egyptian heritage, culture , and ancestry!

Egypt is Africa btw

Do you really believe that because you're 1/8th Egyptian and have no black ancestry that you can use the term "African American" on racial checkboxes for medical school admissions?

 

[Santana90]

You should tell us this before speculating about racist intent.

Okay, so 25 schools; California isn't fair (I'm a CA resident, believe me when I say that I know what I'm talking about) so taking 8 schools off of the top leaves 17. He should not have applied to Texas schools, and there are a lot of schools in Texas. How many Texas schools did he apply to?

And, which schools did he apply to -- specifically -- back East and in the Midwest?

In Texas: I think he applied to SA, Houston, Baylor, southwestern and another one I can't remember.

He applied to Dartmouth, Gtown, GW, NYMC, Hofstra, Brown, Maryland, BU, Rosalind Franklin (small pooled), MCW (small pooled), rush, creighton

I don't remember if that's all but I think I named most of the schools he applied to

 

[Santana90]

Ooooohhhh I get it now.


By any chance, do you want to go into derm?

IM or pediatrics actually.

 

[stlrams22]

My friend is not accepted because he wasn't even given the chance to show his character during and interview. He worked hard for his stats and you don't have the right to say he doesn't deserve to get in; he didn't do anything wrong! Disgusting? St. Louis rams are disgusting.

Anyone who would change their name to gain an unfair advantage has no integrity and should not be allowed to practice medicine. I don't possibly see how a name change would make much of a difference anyways, but it sounds like your friend just wants a shortcut.

 

[SlipperyButter]

Do you really believe that because you're 1/8th Egyptian and have no black ancestry that you can use the term "African American" on racial checkboxes for medical school admissions?

Is there a percentage cutoff I'm not aware of?
Or are you trying to claim that Egypt is exempt from being in Africa?

I'm not trying to pull a Ronnie and claim I'm Native American when I'm just a Hienz 57.

 

[Jimsy]

Is he Hispanic and Asian? If so, a name change might arguably be a way of overcoming discrimination.

If he isn't Hispanic, it's clearly a dishonest method IMO. If he doesn't mark the URM box, and only changes his name, it might not violate any rules, and also might not help him. If he checks the box untruthfully and ever gets called on it, I think there are substantial penalties.

Asians from Hispanic countries (including the Philippines), I believe are legally "Hispanic," and I believe that they do fit both AAMC's and the US Census's definition - which are the only relevant definitions I'm aware of. I think that the notion that a person cannot be more than one race or ethnicity is ridiculous, and seen as ridiculous by most people these days.

Filipinos are under the Asian tab on AMCAS.

 

[487806]

I know this is making waves,

But I totally support what your friend is doing. The system is unjust- you shouldn't be able to get points for sucking c**** or having a different skin color (hey anyone ever hear of this cool thing called Apartheid?).

The question is can he pull it off? If he can, kudos.

Lol this post 🤣

ATTENTION EVERYONE:
THE U.S. MD ADMISSIONS
SYSTEM OPERATES LIKE
A P A R T H E I D.

Isn't it obvious?

Don't forget that being a URM is tantamount to performing fellatio!

I <3 SDN

The next best thing for hypercompetitive premeds after the poop hotdog.

 

[MDforMee]

In Texas: I think he applied to SA, Houston, Baylor, southwestern and another one I can't remember.

He applied to Dartmouth, Gtown, GW, NYMC, Hofstra, Brown, Maryland, BU, Rosalind Franklin (small pooled), MCW (small pooled), rush, creighton

I don't remember if that's all but I think I named most of the schools he applied to

Any school in Texas should not be applied to if you're not a Texas resident. 17- 5 = 12.

Dartmouth and Brown are reaches, Gtown, RF, BU, Rush, and Creighton all have terrible odds because they're the most applied to schools in the country. 12 - 7 = 5.

Maryland is a state school, I don't know what MCW is. 4/3.

Forget about UCSF, UCLA, Stanford, and UCSD. USC, too.

Your friend had a decent shot at maybe 7-8 schools, and we still don't know when he applied. The interview rate for most medical schools is what, less than 10%? Doesn't sound like your friend was smart with his apps, to me. We also don't know his major or which undergrad he attended. He may have gone to CSU Fresno and done an easy major. Where'd he go, and for what?

Is there a percentage cutoff I'm not aware of?
Or are you trying to claim that Egypt is exempt from being in Africa?

I'm not trying to pull a Ronnie and claim I'm Native American when I'm just a Hienz 57.

Uhh, the Middle Eastern and North African students in the UC system believe otherwise. They're pushing for a new racial designation for those of Southwest Asian and North African descent to be implemented into application systems for undergrad, grad, and professional schools. The new designation is called SWANA.

The term "African American" is not intended for Egyptians (North Africans) that aren't black. Further, being 1/8th Egyptian doesn't even qualify as being North African for this purpose, as far as I'm aware. Your great grandparent being Egyptian is irrelevant to your medical school racial designation status.

 

[chenzt]

In Texas: I think he applied to SA, Houston, Baylor, southwestern and another one I can't remember.

He applied to Dartmouth, Gtown, GW, NYMC, Hofstra, Brown, Maryland, BU, Rosalind Franklin (small pooled), MCW (small pooled), rush, creighton

I don't remember if that's all but I think I named most of the schools he applied to

Off of the top of my head I know NYMC, Rosy, Gtown, GW, and BU has 10k+ applicants. Brown is pretty much equivalent to applying to a school with 10k app because how many seats are already reserved for BS/MD. Dartmouth is a crapshoot. Maryland is mostly in state. Rush is also 50/50 with IS/OOS. Creighton is huge on non-clinical volunteering.

EDIT: @MDforMee got there first

 

[SunsFun]

First and foremost, just because the "system" says "Middle Easterners" are Caucasian doesn't mean we aren't an underrepresented minority group and to assume that as a person of color that I haven't gone through trials and tribulations associated with it. Second, there are a fistful of African countries and millions of African born people who aren't "black."
If the term African American meant black then it should just say so. However it doesn't, it says African American; american (check), African ancestors (check). It's kind of a racist thing to assume that I'm not African American or partially because my skin happens to be two shades lighter then what you would normally associate with African American!

In today's society, middle easterners are one judged and scrutinized by other members of society for appearance and beliefs. If you think that I or other middle easterners have nothing in common with an "older Black physician" (apparently your criteria for being African American ) then you're extremely wrong. Extra bonus points because I have Egyptian heritage, culture , and ancestry!

Egypt is Africa btw

Thiis all sounds nice to you on the paper until those of us 100% middle eastern (born and and raised there) put Caucasian on the application. All of my friends who are middle eastern and premeds did. Even guys I knew from Lybia and Morocco. Think about how the adcoms will view you being 1/8 Egyptian and claiming that you're Aftican American alongside the other applicants from the Middle East putting Caucasian.

 

[Espadaleader]

First and foremost, just because the "system" says "Middle Easterners" are Caucasian doesn't mean we aren't an underrepresented minority group and to assume that as a person of color that I haven't gone through trials and tribulations associated with it. Second, there are a fistful of African countries and millions of African born people who aren't "black."
If the term African American meant black then it should just say so. However it doesn't, it says African American; american (check), African ancestors (check). It's kind of a racist thing to assume that I'm not African American or partially because my skin happens to be two shades lighter then what you would normally associate with African American!

In today's society, middle easterners are one judged and scrutinized by other members of society for appearance and beliefs. If you think that I or other middle easterners have nothing in common with an "older Black physician" (apparently your criteria for being African American ) then you're extremely wrong. Extra bonus points because I have Egyptian heritage, culture , and ancestry!

Egypt is Africa btw

People always try to claim "African-American". "Oh, I am from Africa (And Indian or White or Arab etc.) and I am American, so I am African-American. Look, as far as the census goes "African-American" is what this country calls its Black Americans that have ancestry here. I don't like the term, I personally am an "American" and I would like to be referred to as such.

The census should be:

Black American
Black African
Black Caribbean
Black Other

I am so tired of ppl claiming they are African American. Like last week there was an Indian guy from South Africa that wanted to apply as African American.

 

[SunsFun]

In Texas: I think he applied to SA, Houston, Baylor, southwestern and another one I can't remember.

He applied to Dartmouth, Gtown, GW, NYMC, Hofstra, Brown, Maryland, BU, Rosalind Franklin (small pooled), MCW (small pooled), rush, creighton

I don't remember if that's all but I think I named most of the schools he applied to

So now because he didn't get in the first time, he is going to change his name and lie to the ADCOM instead of working more on his application and applying again to more MD and DO schools? Why should anyone feel sympathetic for him? Go to nontraditional or reapplicant forum if you want to see what real dedication and struggle looks like.

 

[Espadaleader]

Most Blacks really dislike the term African-American.

 

[Womb Raider]

Just think - if we removed "race" from the application process this whole thread could have been avoided!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ChemEngMD]

First and foremost, just because the "system" says "Middle Easterners" are Caucasian doesn't mean we aren't an underrepresented minority group and to assume that as a person of color that I haven't gone through trials and tribulations associated with it. Second, there are a fistful of African countries and millions of African born people who aren't "black."
If the term African American meant black then it should just say so. However it doesn't, it says African American; american (check), African ancestors (check). It's kind of a racist thing to assume that I'm not African American or partially because my skin happens to be two shades lighter then what you would normally associate with African American!

In today's society, middle easterners are one judged and scrutinized by other members of society for appearance and beliefs. If you think that I or other middle easterners have nothing in common with an "older Black physician" (apparently your criteria for being African American ) then you're extremely wrong. Extra bonus points because I have Egyptian heritage, culture , and ancestry!

Egypt is Africa btw

Really Egypt is in Africa?

You haven't filled out AMCAS so let me enlighten you:

It says Black/African-American not Black OR African-American...by checking that box you are saying that you identify as both.

This is reality. Be prepared to defend being "Black" if you check that box.

As an aside, when you applied to college did you also identify as Black/African-American?

 

[asebasp]

It's my fault for using that example. I was just trying to say that he's probably embraced the Hispanic culture and community more than some URM applicants claiming to have "deep connections with their community." He knows the problems in our community: the gangs, poverty, the underserved, etc because he has lived in this community.

Um....

 

[Santana90]

Any school in Texas should not be applied to if you're not a Texas resident. 17- 5 = 12.

Dartmouth and Brown are reaches, Gtown, RF, BU, Rush, and Creighton all have terrible odds because they're the most applied to schools in the country. 12 - 7 = 5.

Maryland is a state school, I don't know what MCW is. 4/3.

Forget about UCSF, UCLA, Stanford, and UCSD. USC, too.

Your friend had a decent shot at maybe 7-8 schools, and we still don't know when he applied. The interview rate for most medical schools is what, less than 10%? Doesn't sound like your friend was smart with his apps, to me. We also don't know his major or which undergrad he attended. He may have gone to CSU Fresno and done an easy major. Where'd he go, and for what?




Uhh, the Middle Eastern and North African students in the UC system believe otherwise. They're pushing for a new racial designation for those of Southwest Asian and North African descent to be implemented into application systems for undergrad, grad, and professional schools. The new designation is called SWANA.

The term "African American" is not intended for Egyptians (North Africans) that aren't black. Further, being 1/8th Egyptian doesn't even qualify as being North African for this purpose, as far as I'm aware. Your great grandparent being Egyptian is irrelevant to your medical school racial designation status.

MCW - medical college of Wisconsin

He had great stats and ECs. I think my friend shouldn't be called stupid for thinking he had a chance of landing an interview at at least one of these places with 10% interview rates. Also what's wrong with CSU Fresno?? Please don't be an elitist douche.

My friend and I went to CSU Stanislaus and both majored in chemistry.