Chapman University School of Pharmacy gets Candidate Status

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
I didn't think it was legal for a school to give academic information out? Or perhaps "extremely well" is not considered specific enough to violate FERPA (which I do not pretend to be an expert on at all)?

No, no, you misunderstand, he wasn't talking about her academic work, he was talking about her promptness in remitting her tuition check. She did extremely well in remitting her tuition check as a pre-pharm, hence she was looked at favorably for admittance to the pharmacy program.

Members don't see this ad.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
Members don't see this ad :)
Chapman University (redirect)

School of Pharmacy- cost per academic year

Doctor of Pharmacy $69,750

Posted on their official website, everything would come out to around $300,000+ in loans after four years. Save yourselves the trouble.



That price went up to $75K+ lmao. How does the dean address question of how long it takes a student to pay off that amount of debt with a job that pays only 1/3 of that...? If they are lucky enough to find a job in this market.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
@ChapmanPharmacy I am curious as to your defense of a 68% NAPLEX passing rate

Hey most of the students passed. The school provides a world class education, they can’t help it if the students didn’t put in the effort. Also they are revamping the curriculum to address this issue so just give it 4-5 more years and you will definitely see the improvement.

Also with the more competitive tuition rates students will be even more motivated than ever to pass on the first attempt! It’s a win-win-win.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 9 users
Chapman University (redirect)

School of Pharmacy- cost per academic year

Doctor of Pharmacy $69,750

Posted on their official website, everything would come out to around $300,000+ in loans after four years. Save yourselves the trouble.


this is financial suicide. I'm seeing more and more cali grads leaving their state to get a cheap education then returning. How can cali students defend these obscene prices?

Very concerning TBH FAM.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
congratulations on the 68.75% 2018 NAPLEX pass rate Chapman!
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
Do not blame Chapman. Blame the institutions that accreditate them.
 
Do not blame Chapman. Blame the institutions that accreditate them.

I somewhat disagree, Chapman deserves quite a bit of blame for quality control as they have the power to admit, examine, retain, and dismiss students. A school that does not graduate candidates competent to practice is doing a major disservice to public health. We do not want marginal passes, we want quality practitioners.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 users
I don't think Dr. Brown is on SDN anymore for good reason. They would be shooting themselves in the foot to try to do so.
He's probably still here. Most pharmacy deans are.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
The good news about a Pharm.D is you can start working at CVS and lose your sanity and get on government aid after.
 
Do not blame Chapman. Blame the institutions that accreditate them.

I tend to disagree. Lawrence is not an average joe, he is the former APHA president; a position that is suppose carry certain amount of trust and honor. I truly believe that he knowingly mislead his own students and readers of this forum. He used his title to substantiate his statements that that he has inside knowledge that there will be a major shortage of pharmacists, emerging clinical roles, etc. He made false claims about the qualifications and performance of his inaugural class. Not to mention the nonsense and false justification that he spewed by saying his students would have gone out of state and came back to CA regardless, or that Orange County needed a pharmacy school.

In summary, I do believe that he has done certain things that has benefited the pharmacy practice for some. However, the negligence and dishonesty that he has displayed by endorsing a new school that had no business opening heavily outweighs any benefits that he has brought to the profession. I stand by what I said initially, he is a disgrace to the profession and a major sell out for joining a new school, like Chapman.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Members don't see this ad :)
Do not blame Chapman. Blame the institutions that accreditate them.

They deserve all the blame. They shouldn't have opened a pharmacy school in the first place. Cash grab.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
I’m actually livid and was pacing due to the Deans 2016 comment vs 2018 results:

Nearly 300k in LOANS (3 year program with housing and tuition) and 32% of the Chapman graduates failed.

When you log back in Mr. Brown (1 yr 40 wks and counting) I’d like your opinion on something...Is the failure rate due to premature accreditation, or low GPA matriculant pre-pharm students?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
^we all know the answer. Even him. But he won’t admit to it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
On the subject of school accreditation, we can place the blame on anyone we like; however, that is not going to change the state of our profession. Here are some possible culprits:

1. The stakeholders that fund the schools.
2. The educational administration that neglects training opportunities for students.
3. The low admissions standards for admission: GPA, PCAT, lack of sustained and recent pharmacy work experience in school or research experience within pharmacy school, etcetera.
4. The deans that support these schools through meaningless motivational speeches you can find on an iTunes podcast or in a wellness magazine.
5. Recruiting students that truly believe in the pharmacy profession and think this site and all others like it are simply a blog for venting. SDN is an information resource, not a venting platform.
6. The agencies and out-of-date job data used to justify the accreditation of these schools.
7. The educational policies and procedures that leave learning to the student alone among unprofessional peers.
8. Institutions catering to the traditional demographic of students (age 18-26).
9. Obscure and varied definitions of pharmacy quality; everyone has their own opinion on what quality is.
10. Lack of national pharmacist organization buy-in for too many pharmacists.

We need pharmacists, but not this many. I agree with BMBiology: the focus should be on what can we do about the oversaturation so it does not happen to future students.
 
Last edited:
Yes, all of these factors are detrimental to pharmacy. Has blaming ever changed anything?

Identifying a problem is generally a start to a solution.
Not sure what the above statement means. Let me answer your question with another question. Can a school open without a dean who is in some way associated with the field of pharmacy?
Is it ethical for a former APhA president to knowingly mislead students and do acts (open a school, accept unqualified students, etc) that are detrimental to the profession?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Identifying a problem is generally a start to a solution.
Not sure what the above statement means. Let me answer your question with another question. Can a school open without a dean who is in some way associated with the field of pharmacy?
Is it ethical for a former APhA president to knowingly mislead students and do acts (open a school, accept unqualified students, etc) that are detrimental to the profession?

You quoted my post before I changed the phrase. I am not sure why.
 
Identifying a problem is generally a start to a solution.
Not sure what the above statement means. Let me answer your question with another question. Can a school open without a dean who is in some way associated with the field of pharmacy?
Is it ethical for a former APhA president to knowingly mislead students and do acts (open a school, accept unqualified students, etc) that are detrimental to the profession?

Then go ahead and file a complaint with the ACPE, send an email to the OC Register reporter who has written articles about Chapman SOP.

Words without action is pointless. Are you going to actually do something about it?

I don’t feel bad for any students who still choose to go into pharmacy. Everybody knows there is a saturation so you have to ask yourself as to why people are still applying? The last time I checked...pharmacy is still better than washing test tubes for $15 an hour.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Then go ahead and file a complaint with the ACPE, send an email to the OC Register reporter who has written articles about Chapman SOP.

Words without action is pointless. Are you going to actually do something about it?

I don’t feel bad for any students who still choose to go into pharmacy. Everybody knows there is a saturation so you have to ask yourself as to why people are still applying? The last time I checked...pharmacy is still better than washing test tubes for $15 an hour.

I actually called acpe several years ago, I don’t quite remember their exact wording but the response that I received was something to the effect that it is not Legal for them to deny accreditation based on perception of saturation and as they go off their creteria for approval.

As far OC Register goes, I haven’t done so. I do recall they published several articles about the approval of the school and white coat ceremony etc. Chapman is a very popular/reputable university in OC.

I don’t feel bad for the students either, I do feel insulted as a pharmacist and it’s shameful for the profession to be represented by deans, like Lawrence.

From what I recall, when he was posting here, you questioned him on more than one occasion. So apparently, you cared enough to challenge his views before, just like me.
 
I actually called acpe several years ago, I don’t quite remember their exact wording but the response that I received was something to the effect that it is not Legal for them to deny accreditation based on perception of saturation and as they go off their creteria for approval.

As far OC Register goes, I haven’t done so. I do recall they published several articles about the approval of the school and white coat ceremony etc. Chapman is a very popular/reputable university in OC.

I don’t feel bad for the students either, I do feel insulted as a pharmacist and it’s shameful for the profession to be represented by deans, like Lawrence.

From what I recall, when he was posting here, you questioned him on more than one occasion. So apparently, you cared enough to challenge his views before, just like me.

You are not telling the ACPE to deny accreditation.

You are telling them Mr. Lawrence has acted in an unethical manner by making wild claims and using his status as former APhA president to boost his claims just to recruit gullible pre pharmacy students.
 
You are not telling the ACPE to deny accreditation.

You are telling them Mr. Lawrence has acted in an unethical manner by making wild claims and using his status as former APhA president to boost his claims just to recruit gullible pre pharmacy students.

that's pretty hard to prove... and also basically everyone that holds a high position of power are making the same claims
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
that's pretty hard to prove... and also basically everyone that holds a high position of power are making the same claims

You got his posts and so what if it is difficult? If you think it is unethical, then do something about it. Complaining on here is not going to make a damn difference. Everyone and their mother knows there is a saturation. It is like telling everyone water is wet.
 
You got his posts and so what if it is difficult? If you think it is unethical, then do something about it. Complaining on here is not going to make a damn difference. Everyone and their mother knows there is a saturation. It is like telling everyone water is wet.

pretty sure you have complained about numerous **** on different topics over the years on here. when did you become so self righteous and started telling people what they should and shouldn't complain about? lol
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
pretty sure you have complained about numerous **** on different topics over the years on here. when did you become so self righteous and started telling people what they should and shouldn't complain about? lol

Years ago, I posted about the upcoming saturation because it wasn’t obvious back then.

You are certainly not telling people what they don’t already know and more importantly, without action, isn’t it pointless now? B*tch all you want. It is not going to change a damn thing. You got time to complain but you don’t have time to take action.
 
If you would like to file a complaint with the The Accreditation Council for Pharmacy Education (ACPE), their website is below on how to do this. As of today's posting date, a link to their complaint form is available on their website:

Complaints
 
Identifying a problem is generally a start to a solution.
Not sure what the above statement means. Let me answer your question with another question. Can a school open without a dean who is in some way associated with the field of pharmacy?
Is it ethical for a former APhA president to knowingly mislead students and do acts (open a school, accept unqualified students, etc) that are detrimental to the profession?

Here are the ACPE standards that pertain to the Dean position.
5.3. Dean’s leadership – The college or school is led by a dean, who serves as the
chief administrative and academic officer of the college or school and is responsible for
ensuring that all accreditation requirements of ACPE are met.

8.2. Qualified dean – The dean is qualified to provide leadership in pharmacy
professional education and practice, research and scholarship, and professional and
community service.

8.3. Qualified administrative team – The dean and other college or school
administrative leaders have credentials and experience that have prepared them for their
respective roles and collectively have the needed backgrounds to effectively manage the
educational program.

Dean Jordan would be the first person that ACPE would contact about any question and the executive team would help him formulate the strategy. Students carry the most weight when contacting ACPE and I have seen quick action on their part when they feel that a college's actions are gross and/or negligent.

We need some inside information from students on how the school is interacting with them and obviously not preparing them for a career in pharmacy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Years ago, I posted about the upcoming saturation because it wasn’t obvious back then.

You are certainly not telling people what they don’t already know and more importantly, without action, isn’t it pointless now? B*tch all you want. It is not going to change a damn thing. You got time to complain but you don’t have time to take action.

that wasn't the point lol but nvm, continue on your self righteous ways
 
I'm sure it can be confusing as to how a 15 year old could get into the program. Like many other pharmacy schools, and like all pharmacy schools that have a pre-pharmacy program we do not require a BS degree. This 15 year old student did extremely well in our pre-pharmacy program, and she continues to do extremely well in our pharmacy program.

The student was 15 when they applied, but they are now 16.

how do you sleep at night?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
The way pharmacy education is, it's all about "I got mine, **** you" or "I'm gonna ****, **** yourself" which is consistent with politics and human nature.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Accreditation Process for the Doctor of Pharmacy Program*

"Chapman University School of Pharmacy’s Doctor of Pharmacy program has been granted Candidate status by the Accreditation Council for Pharmacy Education, 135 South LaSalle Street, Suite 4100, Chicago, IL 60603, 312/644-3575; FAX 312/664-4652, web site www.acpe-accredit.org.”

The Doctor of Pharmacy program of the Chapman University School of Pharmacy was awarded Candidate accreditation status during the June 23-26, 2016, meeting of the ACPE Board of Directors based upon an on-site evaluation conducted April 5-7, 2016, and discussion with University and School officials.

With Candidate status, the program continues to develop as planned. Graduates of a class designated as having Candidate status have the same rights and privileges of those graduates from a fully accredited program. Full accreditation status of the Doctor of Pharmacy program would be considered by the Board following the graduation of students from the program in spring 2018.

To learn more go to Accreditation | School of Pharmacy | Chapman University

only $53K per year - $200k for a $90K salary if your lucky
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Yeah, I really miss that guy! he makes me laugh....never let facts get in the way of a profitable opinion !!! A lesson well-learned by accreditation boards

Loved this post:
William Carey opens pharmacy school: 'Maybe we can end the shortage'

"....This first class of students will be looking for jobs in two years, 10 months. Carey has an accelerated program....." (William Carey opens pharmacy school: 'Maybe we can end the shortage')
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I don't understand some of the posts here. The school just graduated their first class, do you all expect a brand new pharmacy school to have a 90+ pass rate? I'm curious as to what the first graduating pass rates for all schools were, it would be interesting to compare those numbers. Also theirs and along with many of the new California schools had smaller class sizes ~50-60 and also couldn't pick and choose the most excelling students into their first cohorts. That makes each student that doesn't pass to lower about 2%. I think its fair to see how the school and other new ones in California do in the next couple of years. Now, if the pass rate is in this range after about 5 years that would be concerning, which probably won't be the case.

And to the people claiming that tuition is close to 300k. How lavishly do you need to live to accrue 300k in debt going to any pharmacy school. I just haven't personally heard of that, especially in accelerated programs. I do know that USC has the highest tuition in California which I could see a student's debt getting closer to 300k.
 
I don't understand some of the posts here. The school just graduated their first class, do you all expect a brand new pharmacy school to have a 90+ pass rate? I'm curious as to what the first graduating pass rates for all schools were, it would be interesting to compare those numbers. Also theirs and along with many of the new California schools had smaller class sizes ~50-60 and also couldn't pick and choose the most excelling students into their first cohorts. That makes each student that doesn't pass to lower about 2%. I think its fair to see how the school and other new ones in California do in the next couple of years. Now, if the pass rate is in this range after about 5 years that would be concerning, which probably won't be the case.

And to the people claiming that tuition is close to 300k. How lavishly do you need to live to accrue 300k in debt going to any pharmacy school. I just haven't personally heard of that, especially in accelerated programs. I do know that USC has the highest tuition in California which I could see a student's debt getting closer to 300k.
An assistant Dean (the one posting here) spent several posts bragging about how great Chapman was and how he would put it up against the best schools in the nation. He is not a nobody dean either but a former APhA president. Then Chapman graduates a class that had an overall pass rate of <70% putting them as the 4th worst school in the country. That doesn't really match his promises, does it?

For comparison - Old first time pass rates for first classes (2009-2012)
Appalachian College of Pharmacy (2009) - 94.9%
Belmont University (2012) - 89.4% (98.5% the very next year)
California Northstate University (2012) - 98.7%
Chicago State University(2012) - 89.3%
East Tennessee State University (2010) - 95.4%
Harding University (2012) - 90.9%
Lipscomb University (2012) - 94.2%
Northeast Ohio Medical University (2011) - 98.4%
Southern Illinois University (2009) - 97.4%
St. John Fisher College (2010) - 96.2%
Sullivan University (2011) - 89.6%
Texas A&M (2010) - 93.3%
Thomas Jefferson University (2012) - 100%
Touro (2012) - 82%
Union University (2012) - 85.4%

--- You get the point.

As for loans - For 8 Trimesters (the full program), tuition alone is $209,360. Chapman estimates that for on or off housing (i.e. not with parents) will cost $76544 for room and board alone for the same time frame. 300k doesn't seem too far fetched...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 8 users
I don't understand some of the posts here. The school just graduated their first class, do you all expect a brand new pharmacy school to have a 90+ pass rate? I'm curious as to what the first graduating pass rates for all schools were, it would be interesting to compare those numbers. Also theirs and along with many of the new California schools had smaller class sizes ~50-60 and also couldn't pick and choose the most excelling students into their first cohorts. That makes each student that doesn't pass to lower about 2%. I think its fair to see how the school and other new ones in California do in the next couple of years. Now, if the pass rate is in this range after about 5 years that would be concerning, which probably won't be the case.

And to the people claiming that tuition is close to 300k. How lavishly do you need to live to accrue 300k in debt going to any pharmacy school. I just haven't personally heard of that, especially in accelerated programs. I do know that USC has the highest tuition in California which I could see a student's debt getting closer to 300k.

Read what the Dean stated with his promissory about the institute in comparison to the stats.

At that, I’d never expect a first-year-anything-program to have stats this terrible. Can you imagine if people expected this from an MD program? Supply and demand may be one-sided in this profession, but preparation in passing a professional licensure test should reflect the academia highly not an experiment for students to see how many fail (Regional Accreditation should be the voucher).

**Edit** KidPharmD beat me to the punch with his explanation...
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
I don't understand some of the posts here. The school just graduated their first class, do you all expect a brand new pharmacy school to have a 90+ pass rate? I'm curious as to what the first graduating pass rates for all schools were, it would be interesting to compare those numbers. Also theirs and along with many of the new California schools had smaller class sizes ~50-60 and also couldn't pick and choose the most excelling students into their first cohorts. That makes each student that doesn't pass to lower about 2%. I think its fair to see how the school and other new ones in California do in the next couple of years. Now, if the pass rate is in this range after about 5 years that would be concerning, which probably won't be the case.

And to the people claiming that tuition is close to 300k. How lavishly do you need to live to accrue 300k in debt going to any pharmacy school. I just haven't personally heard of that, especially in accelerated programs. I do know that USC has the highest tuition in California which I could see a student's debt getting closer to 300k.

Haha I bet this kid went to Chapman..
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
I don't understand some of the posts here. The school just graduated their first class, do you all expect a brand new pharmacy school to have a 90+ pass rate? I'm curious as to what the first graduating pass rates for all schools were, it would be interesting to compare those numbers. Also theirs and along with many of the new California schools had smaller class sizes ~50-60 and also couldn't pick and choose the most excelling students into their first cohorts. That makes each student that doesn't pass to lower about 2%. I think its fair to see how the school and other new ones in California do in the next couple of years. Now, if the pass rate is in this range after about 5 years that would be concerning, which probably won't be the case.

Whether it's a new school or old school is no excuse for 1/3 of the students to not pass the NAPLEX, a minimal competency exam. Yes, we do expect them to have a 90%+ pass rate because peoples' health and lives will depend on these graduates.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 7 users
I don't understand some of the posts here. The school just graduated their first class, do you all expect a brand new pharmacy school to have a 90+ pass rate? I'm curious as to what the first graduating pass rates for all schools were, it would be interesting to compare those numbers. Also theirs and along with many of the new California schools had smaller class sizes ~50-60 and also couldn't pick and choose the most excelling students into their first cohorts. That makes each student that doesn't pass to lower about 2%. I think its fair to see how the school and other new ones in California do in the next couple of years. Now, if the pass rate is in this range after about 5 years that would be concerning, which probably won't be the case.

And to the people claiming that tuition is close to 300k. How lavishly do you need to live to accrue 300k in debt going to any pharmacy school. I just haven't personally heard of that, especially in accelerated programs. I do know that USC has the highest tuition in California which I could see a student's debt getting closer to 300k.
What do you think makes preparing a bunch of people to pass the NAPLEX so difficult when you have the smallest number of students in the school’s lifespan? Do you think the professors are waiting for the first set of students to take the exam and report back what was on it?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Read what the Dean stated with his promissory about the institute in comparison to the stats.

At that, I’d never expect a first-year-anything-program to have stats this terrible. Can you imagine if people expected this from an MD program? Supply and demand may be one-sided in this profession, but preparation in passing a professional licensure test should reflect the academia highly not an experiment for students to see how many fail (Regional Accreditation should be the voucher).

**Edit** KidPharmD beat me to the punch with his explanation...

Just to add to your excellent point, anytime you graduate this quantity of Pharm.D. who were deemed to be ineligible/unqualified to practice, i think it's embarrassing for the school, faculty, and the profession. Also, a waste of loan money. I am ok with ignoring the supply/demand argument; I don't think you can ignore the shortage of qualified faculty necessary to train students quality rotations which reflected on the passing rates.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Whether it's a new school or old school is no excuse for 1/3 of the students to not pass the NAPLEX, a minimal competency exam. Yes, we do expect them to have a 90%+ pass rate because peoples' health and lives will depend on these graduates.
Even 90% is too low. People who are not competent to pass should NOT be passing every class required to graduate. The only people who should be failing should be doing so for medical reasons, psychological emergencies or poor test taking strategies. Knowledge based failures are unacceptable.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I wasn't aware that the dean said his school will be on par with the top schools in the nation. I was just dropping a comment because of all the hate that was being posted here about their pass rate despite it being the first year. On a side note, I didn't know all those schools got such high pass rates on their first years, good for them

And on the comment on student loans, 75k for 2.5 years seems a bit much for room and board. That's a little over 2k a month for a room
 
I wasn't aware that the dean said his school will be on par with the top schools in the nation. I was just dropping a comment because of all the hate that was being posted here about their pass rate despite it being the first year. On a side note, I didn't know all those schools got such high pass rates on their first years, good for them

And on the comment on student loans, 75k for 2.5 years seems a bit much for room and board. That's a little over 2k a month for a room

The cheapest on campus housing at at chapman is ~13k/year which is sharing a studio with another student. It only goes up from there. Also the "Board" part includes other basic living expenses like food. 75k is using the estimate provided by the school. Some students will surely be able to live on less, while others will likely spend more (needing a private room for example).
 
Are Chapman students eligible to take out federal loans or are they private loans only like Cal Northstate?
 
Top