Cheating in med school?

[razor]

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I love how accepted people change their status on sdn to "medical student" without having sit through one class in medical school, just sayin

Better get this guy a safety net in case he falls off his pedestal. It seems reasonable to change your status out of excitement once you once a school has accepted you. As long as you're not telling all your friends you're a doctor.

I'm sure that's just me being a pre-med (probably 10 years older than you), who has been accepted and very likely could be, or could not be, a much better doctor than you some day. Time will tell for us all. We all started somewhere.

 

[Textbookversion]

Better get this guy a safety net in case he falls off his pedestal. It seems reasonable to change your status out of excitement once you once a school has accepted you. As long as you're not telling all your friends you're a doctor.

I'm sure that's just me being a pre-med (probably 10 years older than you), who has been accepted and very likely could be, or could not be, a much better doctor than you some day. Time will tell for us all. We all started somewhere.

ok mr. giant chip on your shoulder.

 

[JuliusSeizure]

ok mr. giant chip on your shoulder.

In reality he's Jenny from the block

 

[loltopsy]

Why don't we all calm down to the smooth action of homoerotic CPR?

 

[survivordo]

Cheating in med school is high risk with low reward. You can end your professional career with cheating. But your grades in med school during the preclinical years really don't matter much -- residencies are going to focus on Step 1 and clinical evaluations to a far far far greater extent. It would be like robbing a bank at gunpoint to steal the pennies.

This is exactly right. I don't know why people would ever risk it. The ONLY reason I can even think of is if you were in serious jeopardy of failing.. I guess the thought of failing out of med school when being a doctor has been your life-long dream could drive people to do pretty crazy/dumb things.

Survivor DO

 

[Dreamstoo]

Getting ready to start med school in the fall and just curious how frequent people cheat (if at all) at your school?

I feel like it would take some big balls, but I know a ton of people in undergrad who did, although most got caught. =]

Most people do get caught for sure. However, at least at my school, in intro biology courses, it wasn't uncommon for students who knew each other sat next to each other and walked out at the same time, smirking. I saw it way too often. However, during a physics exam, almost each exam I've taken, I've seen people get caught cheating.

 

[MSTPlease]

Our tests are on-line and we take them at any point during a weekend long window.

I don't know of any examples of cheating. It's a p/f school so there's really no point except to avoid failing - and even if you do it for that, step 1 will tell all. That being said, I would bet that at least one person cheats on at least one question on every exam. It's just literally too easy to cheat if you want to, but that's medicine right? How easy would it be to give your buddy a script for opiates, to over bill an insurance company, to hide your kickbacks from some drug rep etc? Sure, you'll get caught eventually but until you do...

might as well learn to deal with/avoid the temptation now while the stakes for others are pretty low

 

[Wordead]

Actually cheating on a test? No.

Having people sign you in, asking upperclassmen what was on their test - yeah, sure.

 

[huskerdye]

First of all, I'm so sorry for offending anybody who really cares that I changed my SDN 'tag' to medical student. I guess I figured I was now and didn't think it was too big of a deal... Along the same lines, I rarely post on this board, mostly just use it to read advice and whatnot. I'm not here advising anybody on what it's like to be a medical student or talking about classes, etc.

I just have a couple friends in physical therapy school who say people in their class are consistently looking at others exams. Was just curious if anybody saw anything of the same sort at their school.

 

[Ismet]

I haven't heard of anyone cheating at my school, but I'm sure it's happened.

I have always wondered what other schools take block exams with. Paper exams? Scantrons?

Yep, paper exams and scantrons here! Still waiting on the grade from the scantron exam we took 3 weeks ago... 🙁

My school forbids us from leaving the classroom during an exam. If you walk out of the room, you fail. My buddy got ill during one exam and knew he had to vomit.

He stood up and walked toward the door and the proctors told him he wasn't allowed to leave, even to vomit. He busted out the doors anyways... and thankfully they didn't fail him.

That's crazy! They allot 3 hours for our exams and most of the class takes at least 1.5-2 hours...gotta get rid of that morning coffee at some point! We have to sign out and sign in to go to the bathroom, and leave our exams and phones at the front with one of the proctors.

 

[235009]

We had a mini-outbreak of gastroenteritis in my school last year the day before our big block exam. I believe the official count infected was 12. The source was not identified but it must have been something from a potluck luncheon we had. Most of them made it in for the exam but a few had to take it during remediation.

did anyone else catch this ingenious gunning?

 

[loltopsy]

did anyone else catch this ingenious gunning?

I'm already planning on switching out the brownies at the cafe with laxative brownies the morning of exams.

 

[Wordead]

I'm already planning on twitching out the brownies at the cafe with laxative brownies the morning of exams.

PCP would be way better.

 

[darkelven29]

There are probably a few isolated cases/people who cheat. Generally the culture is to be honorable. Administration will usually limit the temptation with certain policies and rules as described above. Your classmates will also report cheating/unethical behavior if they see you or if they know about it (Yes that includes if your friend signs you in a required class).

Most people who cheat on a test are usually not the ones on the top (usually average or on probation), so it's not like they are at a huge advantage. Punishment includes expulsion/dismissal (and that has happened in my school), so I would not recommend it, even for a short quiz. Unethical behavior may result in a meeting with the deans and repeating classes. Gross unprofessional behavior can result in repeating a year, especially in combination with borderline grades.

Don't do it. Almost everyone don't. Med school is not undergrad.

 

[D elegans]

did anyone else catch this ingenious gunning?

I am so naive

 

[Anastomoses]

I would report someone in one tenth of a heart beat if I saw cheating.

I would also never eat anything made by any other medical student. I barely trust hearsay from fellow students about what a professor said or if some rescheduling. I always text at least two others to make sure...eh - just in case. My only friends are other "gunners" and we're too busy showing off to one another or pretending we don't have a clue when we do.

 

[Bojack Horseman]

I would also never eat anything made by any other medical student.

Paranoid much?

 

[mvenus929]

My school makes it hard/almost impossible to cheat on our big exams during M1/M2. We took all of our exams on our own computers in a lecture hall together with some kind of "military grade" program that we were told was unhackable.

I have always wondered what other schools take block exams with. Paper exams? Scantrons?

We have computer exams (at least the first two years), which we take on our own computer, anytime from noon on Friday to noon on Sunday. Ample opportunity to cheat, but the price for getting caught was expulsion, so I don't think anyone actually risked it.

 

[tiedyeddog]

We have computer exams (at least the first two years), which we take on our own computer, anytime from noon on Friday to noon on Sunday. Ample opportunity to cheat, but the price for getting caught was expulsion, so I don't think anyone actually risked it.

not sure if srs...

could you take the exams at home or what?

 

[KnuxNole]

I would report someone in one tenth of a heart beat if I saw cheating.

I would also never eat anything made by any other medical student. I barely trust hearsay from fellow students about what a professor said or if some rescheduling. I always text at least two others to make sure...eh - just in case. My only friends are other "gunners" and we're too busy showing off to one another or pretending we don't have a clue when we do.

You shouldn't eat the stuff I make either. You'll get sick not because I'm trying to gun....but because the food is made so poorly 😛

 

[Anastomoses]

Paranoid much?

Better to be safe than sorry. You hear things.

 

[CATrtb]

Ritalin, adderall misuse is very common. One might consider this a form of cheating.

 

[deleted307836]

Our tests are on-line and we take them at any point during a weekend long window.

I don't know of any examples of cheating. It's a p/f school so there's really no point except to avoid failing - and even if you do it for that, step 1 will tell all. That being said, I would bet that at least one person cheats on at least one question on every exam. It's just literally too easy to cheat if you want to, but that's medicine right? How easy would it be to give your buddy a script for opiates, to over bill an insurance company, to hide your kickbacks from some drug rep etc? Sure, you'll get caught eventually but until you do...

might as well learn to deal with/avoid the temptation now while the stakes for others are pretty low

We have computer exams (at least the first two years), which we take on our own computer, anytime from noon on Friday to noon on Sunday. Ample opportunity to cheat, but the price for getting caught was expulsion, so I don't think anyone actually risked it.

That's an interesting method. How could a cheater possibly be caught this way? Assuming the tests could be taken at home, couldn't they just shut the blinds and complete the exam with whatever resources they want?

 

[link2swim06]

Ritalin, adderall misuse is very common. One might consider this a form of cheating.

Yep like drinking coffee and red bull. A definite form of cheating. 🙄

 

[KnuxNole]

Yep like drinking coffee and red bull. A definite form of cheating. 🙄

If coffee and red bull counted as cheating....

 

[Kaustikos]

Ritalin, adderall misuse is very common. One might consider this a form of cheating.

🙄

I'm not rolling my eyes, really, I just have to look up to see you from alllll the way down here.

 

[loltopsy]

Abusing prescription drugs for studying totally isn't cheating at all. Because everyone has equal access to ritalin and is willing to risk taking it for a better grade.


Caffeine is a drug, but everyone has equal access to it in many forms.

 

[Kaustikos]

Abusing prescription drugs for studying totally isn't cheating at all. Because everyone has equal access to ritalin and is willing to risk taking it for a better grade.


Caffeine is a drug, but everyone has equal access to it in many forms.

 

[mimelim]

I saw people cheating during tests maybe once or twice in medical school. A lot less than undergrad for sure.

 

[KnuxNole]

nice

 

[Kaustikos]

Paranoid much?

Yeah, I still don't understand that.

My class had people cook/bake things at least once a week and I loved it. The first years were even more awesome by having potluck events in the lounge. There were a lot of potential wife-materials... (jk)

But seriously - being paranoid about that means you'd be paranoid coming over to my condo when I held parties and made drinks.

The ONLY complaint I've ever gotten during my events is a non-med student guy saying I made his white russian too strong. I couldn't help but respond -

"I'm sorry, I forgot you didn't bring your balls with you tonight. Would you like a light beer?"

 

[Ismet]

Yeah, I still don't understand that.

My class had people cook/bake things at least once a week and I loved it. The first years were even more awesome by having potluck events in the lounge. There were a lot of potential wife-materials... (jk)

But seriously - being paranoid about that means you'd be paranoid coming over to my condo when I held parties and made drinks.

The ONLY complaint I've ever gotten during my events is a non-med student guy saying I made his white russian too strong. I couldn't help but respond -

"I'm sorry, I forgot you didn't bring your balls with you tonight. Would you like a light beer?"

+1. What med student in their right mind turns down free food (and drinks)? People are always bringing food to PBL and the MS2 mentors give treats to all the MS1's after every exam. So far the only report of tainted food was a few years ago when someone was stealing all the MS1 treats out of their mailboxes, the MS2's put a bit of Exlax in some of the food to give the thief a little surprise. XD

 

[D elegans]

I would report someone in one tenth of a heart beat if I saw cheating.

I would also never eat anything made by any other medical student. I barely trust hearsay from fellow students about what a professor said or if some rescheduling. I always text at least two others to make sure...eh - just in case. My only friends are other "gunners" and we're too busy showing off to one another or pretending we don't have a clue when we do.

Man, your school sounds really malignant

 

[loveoforganic2]

Man, your school sounds really malignant

Might just be projection

 

[Kaustikos]

I'm curious - can we count the number of pre-meds who change their status to medical student on SDN before they start med school as cheating? 😕

 

[tiedyeddog]

Might just be projection

Lol.

DAE step 1????

 

[Kahreek]

i cant think how asking older people how some exam was is considered cheating. All it could be is lazyness of the professor not diversifing the question pool.

 

[Wordead]

i cant think how asking older people how some exam was is considered cheating. All it could be is lazyness of the professor not diversifing the question pool.

Does this apply to step 1 in your mind?

 

[NeuroLAX]

I'm curious - can we count the number of pre-meds who change their status to medical student on SDN before they start med school as cheating? 😕

Cheating? No, I don't see how. Taboo-ish? Maybe to some people on here. I think it's more of a faux pas.

 

[Anastomoses]

Man, your school sounds really malignant

It's not everybody. I guess I could make friends with some of the more...chilled people. But they're just not obsessive enough.

 

[siliso]

In the instances I knew about, it seemed that the people involved somehow did not know that their behavior constituted cheating and would be considered unethical. Signing absent friends into mandatory events in full view of the professor, for instance (I don't like mandatory events either, but there is no way on earth that I would jeopardize myself or compromise my personal integrity so that you didn't have to go). Or, sharing questions and answers for a quiz that group A took on Tuesday and group B took on Thursday.

 

[quechua]

There was a student who took his/her exams earlier for an accommodation. S/he then shared the exams with another group of students.

Originally resulted in dismissals, but because there were so many students involved, the appeals committee reversed the dismissals. I never found out what the alternative decisions of dean was.

-this was not at my school-

 

[Kaustikos]

It's not everybody. I guess I could make friends with some of the more...chilled people. But they're just not obsessive enough.

Gunning in med school is just the dumbest thing ever. Not everyone is trying to get the highest grades anymore in med school. If you want to do that, fine, but there are only a few percentage of people who have that mentality and it's laughable. Why? Because you think it's a competition nowadays. It's not.

The only competition is AOA. Or boards scores. But that's is relative to the competition of the entire united states. People are happy with getting a 225 or something like that and aren't pushing for a 260 step 1. And that's because the majority aren't gunning for ortho/rads.

 

[Kaustikos]

There was a student who took his/her exams earlier for an accommodation. S/he then shared the exams with another group of students.

Originally resulted in dismissals, but because there were so many students involved, the appeals committee reversed the dismissals. I never found out what the alternative decisions of dean was.

-this was not at my school-

The dental school in my state was NOTORIOUS for cheating. Every year at least 30% of the class would cheat on exams. This continued on until a couple years back when they got caught. The thing that sucks is that only 8 people got kicked out instead of the 30% that cheated. Which is also why dental grads in my state have the worst time finding jobs; people know they did this and don't trust their educational abilities.

 

[Anastomoses]

Gunning in med school is just the dumbest thing ever. Not everyone is trying to get the highest grades anymore in med school. If you want to do that, fine, but there are only a few percentage of people who have that mentality and it's laughable. Why? Because you think it's a competition nowadays. It's not.

The only competition is AOA. Or boards scores. But that's is relative to the competition of the entire united states. People are happy with getting a 225 or something like that and aren't pushing for a 260 step 1. And that's because the majority aren't gunning for ortho/rads.

Oh. You're under the impression this is about something other than just our competitive natures? Yeah...I'd be one of those people who gets my dream score and still applies to a non-competitive residency. I still want that damn score.

 

[Trastuz]

We had an optional cardiology final that contained the same questions from the first two exams. The professor found out that a group of students were planning on going to the second test review session to memorize all the answers for the final. The professor got super mad and sent out an email to the class threatening to cancel the exam review and ask for those students to be turned in. I dont beleive they were ever caught, but they did end up holding the exam review because she felt it would be a disservice to the honest students if she cancelled.

What are you supposed to do? Attend the review but plug your ears when the correct answers are disussed? This sounds a lot like.... studying... as a group. Am I the only one that thinks if the professor gives the answers to the exams you'd be an idiot for not memorizing them?

I can understand how memorizing 1: C, 2: B, 3: C, etc. would be frowned upon (and the profrssor would be an imbecile for administering the EXACT same test) but if remembering the answers to questions is cheating anyone who used a Qbank for step 1 should be dismissed.

 

[quechua]

What are you supposed to do? Attend the review but plug your ears when the correct answers are disussed? This sounds a lot like.... studying... as a group. Am I the only one that thinks if the professor gives the answers to the exams you'd be an idiot for not memorizing them?

I can understand how memorizing 1: C, 2: B, 3: C, etc. would be frowned upon (and the profrssor would be an imbecile for administering the EXACT same test) but if remembering the answers to questions is cheating anyone who used a Qbank for step 1 should be dismissed.

Haha - I know I'd have a hard time not remembering. My brain has been trained to pay extra attention to anything that's definitely going to be tested. It's so sadly automatic I don't fight it.

 

[siliso]

I don't get how it is possibly unethical or dishonest to attend a review session and remember what was said there, and I have a hypersensitive ethical barometer., Most of our classes had previous exams freely and openly available, distributed by the course directors. If they chose to repeat questions after openly publishing them, well, that was their choice - and led to very high mean scores. A secret copy foam exam that was supposed to be protected is a different matter.

And addressing another thread of discussion, I also have a high level of internal motivation to do as well as I can possibly do. It's never been competitive in the sense of throwing banana peels on the road for others, though. That is just shady, 100% unnecessary when you know your ****, and reflects poorly on one's character. Not to mention that poisoning other people crosses over into the frankly criminal and i cant believe that it is in any way common. I do dislike grading schemes that do not allow for everyone who achieves excellent performance to be honored for excellent performance, though.

People who are really academically top shelf are not competitive because they don't need to be. We just got it like that. /douche

 

[evilbooyaa]

Wow true SDN mentality about gunners is coming out in this thread. I have never had an issue with poisoned food or people changing the answers on public study guides to incorrect ones. Both of those crimes would get public mental castration and abandonment without a chance for parole.

 

[Kaustikos]

Oh. You're under the impression this is about something other than just our competitive natures? Yeah...I'd be one of those people who gets my dream score and still applies to a non-competitive residency. I still want that damn score.

Yes, good for you. Wait until you get to my point and realize that getting that score has no connection/correlation to being this obsessive or paranoid.