• SDN Site Updates

    Hey everyone! The site will be down for approximately 2 hours on Thursday, August 5th for site updates.

Iamnumber24

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Oct 20, 2007
55
0
Status (Visible)
  1. Pre-Medical
I'm only a college freshman and i've seen alot of my fellow pre-meds do alot of cheating. So my question is...Is cheating that common in your schools? and Is it really worth it? because my whole opinion on it is that eventually all the cheating will catch up 2 the person especially those who dont study or come to class and cheat and get really high grades. Oh a couple more questins.... Would you cheat your way into med school? and what are your thoughts/feelings/anything on the subject of cheating.
 

majik1213

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Jun 6, 2007
699
10
Status (Visible)
  1. Resident [Any Field]
in med school, i think your ability to cheat is downright truncated .. they keep a close eye on the examinees during exam time. Or so the syllabus I read suggests. I agree to your philosophy .. don't cheat .. you're simply cheating yourself
 

mongrel

Assoc. Prof. Dogsuit
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Mar 8, 2007
702
1
Curled up in my office under the desk.
Status (Visible)
  1. Medical Student
What kind of cheating have you seen? Straight up copying from non-publicly disclosed class files? Or collaborating among peers on assignments? Something else more or less? My point is that some might find the latter morally acceptable even though both are forms of dishonesty or academic plagiarism.
 
About the Ads

bodonid

Dr. Spaceman
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Jul 18, 2007
1,885
2
Status (Visible)
  1. Medical Student
I never saw a single instance of cheating at my school. Suprised me, too. How exactly do people cheat? Do they bring in notes or something?
 
1

135892

It's pretty common...

I don't cheat, but if a person cheats, gets high grades, and doesn't get caught, then yeah, it might be worth it for that person...
 

wizenedone

Indeed...
10+ Year Member
Apr 9, 2008
524
2
Status (Visible)
  1. Pre-Medical
Do you guys think studying from past exams in a given class is considered cheating?
 
1

186321

Sort of off topic but I've always thought one of the hardest interview questions is:

If you saw someone in your class cheating, what would you do?
 

cgbg

Eyes of Auslander
10+ Year Member
Jan 15, 2008
237
1
NY
Status (Visible)
  1. Pre-Medical
i never cheat on exams but i have seen or heard about in the premed classes at my university ppl doing the following 1) copying off others tests 2) bringing in cheat sheets 3) copying off an answer sheet the teacher was clever enough to leave on his desk during the exam!! 4) stealing a copy of teachers exam and making copies before class. 5) ppl paying others to write papers for them.

it disgusts me but cheating is rampant at my institution.
 

AKu2984

MD to be...
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Aug 23, 2007
289
1
Iowa
Status (Visible)
  1. Medical Student
IMO...once a cheater, always a cheater. When people get used to cheating, it gets easier and easier for them each time they do it...plus, they don't study because they just rip off of someone else for answers. Eventually, it'll catch up to them. You CAN'T cheat on the MCAT...and, I'm sure, in medical school, it'd be next to impossible. When you cheat, you're not learning anything...so it's like screwing yourself over, really.

Also...people who cheat in medical school could potentially cheat as actual physicians...when peoples lives are involved. Scarey, but true...

Basically, it's a really, really stupid thing to do...I've seen many people in my under-grad institution get caught. The outcome for them was not pretty.
 

JRjcu08

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Feb 11, 2008
283
25
Status (Visible)
  1. Resident [Any Field]
I'm a teaching assistant for a biochemistry lab (and I have to grade reports). One student copied most of their report directly from the 1st google result.... without changing formating (i.e., the whole report had different fonts, sizes, and spacing).

I never knew someone could be so blantant about cheating, especially as a college junior. This doesn't give me much hope that things get better as the coursework advances.
 

travoltage

Crank up the travoltage!
10+ Year Member
Oct 14, 2007
292
2
Status (Visible)
  1. Pre-Medical
i think this is a dumb question, lets be honest...if you've never heard of cheating or seen it, your obviously living a fictional world...this is life, deal with it
 

Alvarez13

PGEEE2 mediates FEEEVER
10+ Year Member
May 29, 2007
1,303
379
Status (Visible)
  1. Attending Physician
Are you kidding? I'm going to cheat every chance I get in med school:D! However, I want to be a surgeon, so I don't need to know anything about actual medicine anyways. As for the rest of you weinies, you'll only be hurting yourselves.
 
About the Ads

Bacchus

Full Member
Staff member
Administrator
Volunteer Staff
10+ Year Member
Apr 28, 2007
21,688
2,992
Status (Visible)
  1. Attending Physician
I do believe in Karma and feel that eventually everything will catch up to the cheater. However, if there is a group of people cheating in a class where your grade depends on the class distribution then you should say something. It is for the greater good of the class and majority of those not cheating.

As far as my institution goes, cheating happens and people will get punished.
 

RapplixGmed

Looking for the Ether
10+ Year Member
Nov 27, 2007
710
17
Status (Visible)
  1. Medical Student
Obviously the only way to deal with a cheater is to scream out loud when you see it, point at them and scream wildly that they are a cheater and will never get into med school, become a bum, and go to hell. Make sure you keep on verbally abusing them until everybody else in class is staring at the person. Then, publicly apologize for your inconvenience and say that even though this scum cheater is a complete *******, he should not be persecuted this time out of mercy and the good of our hearts. Sit down quietly into your chair and continue your test.

I bet they'll never cheat again.

Too bad this never actually happens. If people got called out in public and embarrassed for their transgressions, it'd be a pretty big incentive to change. Remember that the common person is more worried about their peers' perception of them than whether they actually do well in school or not. Additionally, if their elementary school teachers trashed them when they caught them teaching when they were younger, this probably wouldn't have happened in college. Although I have developed my own sense of morals, I know that painful memories of embarrassment from my younger days also help keep me in line in this regard.
 

RySerr21

i aint kinda hot Im sauna
10+ Year Member
Dec 22, 2007
5,931
30
Status (Visible)
  1. Fellow [Any Field]
Do you guys think studying from past exams in a given class is considered cheating?

no not at all. is taking and studying a past MCAT exam cheating? of course not. you are using your resources, taking similar, older tests to see if you have the general knowledge down and are ready for test-like questions. its the professors responsibility to make up new questions each year, which really isn't that hard. i know professors who make old exams readily available.
 
1

135892

I'm a teaching assistant for a biochemistry lab (and I have to grade reports). One student copied most of their report directly from the 1st google result.... without changing formating (i.e., the whole report had different fonts, sizes, and spacing).

I never knew someone could be so blantant about cheating, especially as a college junior. This doesn't give me much hope that things get better as the coursework advances.

Haha, what an idiot. He could have at least tried not to get caught...
 

SaveThisLabRat

$700 Billion Dollar Woman
10+ Year Member
Mar 27, 2007
1,093
1
California *\o/*
Status (Visible)
  1. Pre-Pharmacy
Um, is this the part where I'm supposed to say I cheated? Because I have. Not in science classes, and don't think I ever would because I really enjoy them. But I did do it in my general education classes.

I did everything from have last year's test memorized, to googling my papers and citing other sources (I was very good at this). I actually remember a paper I had to do for western history. The only paragraph of the paper I DIDN'T copy the teacher thought was copied and docked points off, lol. Serves me right.
 

Iamnumber24

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Oct 20, 2007
55
0
Status (Visible)
  1. Pre-Medical
What kind of cheating have you seen? Straight up copying from non-publicly disclosed class files? Or collaborating among peers on assignments? Something else more or less? My point is that some might find the latter morally acceptable even though both are forms of dishonesty or academic plagiarism.

I've seen cheating where people have completed a test and then exchanges test with sum1 else and puts the right answers for them. then just hand in the test.
 

ChubbyChaser

Yummmy
10+ Year Member
Apr 14, 2007
13,168
7
Status (Visible)
  1. Medical Student
I have seen some premeds cheat, but most of them dont remain Premeds for long.

Most of the ppl I see cheating are like Mass communication, Psych, business etc. In fact, I remember in my english class One guy straight up pulled out his english book during an exam. Funny thing was he still made a 48.. lowest in the class.
 

pakbabydoll

Average student
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Jun 23, 2007
1,431
1
Status (Visible)
  1. Pre-Medical
My class is filled with cheaters. They ask each other answers specially in bio 2 lab where microscopes are set so close to each other. In chemistry they just store everything on the calculator. I swear even for easy things you would expect people to already know...
 

ChubbyChaser

Yummmy
10+ Year Member
Apr 14, 2007
13,168
7
Status (Visible)
  1. Medical Student
My class is filled with cheaters. They ask each other answers specially in bio 2 lab where microscopes are set so close to each other. In chemistry they just store everything on the calculator. I swear even for easy things you would expect people to already know...
hmmm, we were required to have a basic scientific calculator that wouldnt store anything.
 

GophurIt

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Apr 12, 2007
46
0
Status (Visible)
  1. Pre-Medical
I never really felt the urge to cheat, being more stressed out about whether i knew the stuff or not before exams.

but i know that a lot of people do and i guess i feel sort of a leveling effect twds the different kinds


Some junk assignment that was just busy work, i dont really care if people share answers

explaining answers to homework, that seems more like teaching than cheating


but getting secret access to the test key or previous exams that arent public

i hate that.
that sucks you know, and some people try to do that regularly, spend time actively seeking that info when they could be doing something else.

now i happen to like it when tests are published for everyone to learn the answers and how to defeat the exams but some tests are not built like that

I knew a girl who had a serious cheater/gunner spirit.
I thought a lot less of her when i found out about the cheater part, I really did.

So what wrong with me doc? I dunno I cheated on that section.
 
About the Ads

BMBPSU2008

Full Member
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Sep 17, 2007
329
0
New Jersey
Status (Visible)
  1. Medical Student
My class is filled with cheaters. They ask each other answers specially in bio 2 lab where microscopes are set so close to each other. In chemistry they just store everything on the calculator. I swear even for easy things you would expect people to already know...

What undergraduate Chemistry class allows you to bring programmable calculators to the exams?
 

wisconsindoctor

Membership Revoked
Removed
10+ Year Member
Dec 11, 2007
306
0
Status (Visible)
I have a classmate that cheats on exams. I could easily tell the professor what this student does, but I don't care. If she needs to cheat her way to an "A" on an exam, that is her problem. It doesn't matter anyway. If she is smart enough to do good in medical school then that is what matters. If she had to cheat to get great grades in college and can't hack it in medical school, I won't care.
 

GophurIt

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Apr 12, 2007
46
0
Status (Visible)
  1. Pre-Medical
What kind of cheating have you seen? Straight up copying from non-publicly disclosed class files? Or collaborating among peers on assignments? Something else more or less? My point is that some might find the latter morally acceptable even though both are forms of dishonesty or academic plagiarism.


yeah thats sort of something i was thinking about jsut now too
 

RySerr21

i aint kinda hot Im sauna
10+ Year Member
Dec 22, 2007
5,931
30
Status (Visible)
  1. Fellow [Any Field]
there will be cheaters in all walks of life. everyewhere. all the time.
 

Bacchus

Full Member
Staff member
Administrator
Volunteer Staff
10+ Year Member
Apr 28, 2007
21,688
2,992
Status (Visible)
  1. Attending Physician
What undergraduate Chemistry class allows you to bring programmable calculators to the exams?
At my university only the chemistry department majors may bring a TI83+/89/etc. to exams. The general chemistry calculator requirement for the PharmD's, bio degrees, etc. must use only a scientific calculator.

There are a lot less of us so we are watched and sometimes have the calculators checked.
 

TexasTriathlete

HTFU
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Aug 19, 2007
6,211
29
The ATL
www.myspace.com
Status (Visible)
  1. Medical Student
There is nothing stupider you can do than copy off someone.

1. You could get caught. If you do, you're in serious deep ****.
2. Whoever you're copying off of is probably wrong too. If they have some stupid answer down, and you copy it, the TA or whoever grades the papers could make the connection. If so, again, you're in serious deep ****.

If you're not prepared for an exam or something, just bite the ****ing bullet, do your best, and get a bad grade. Then work harder to make it up on the next exam. A lot of profs will give you the benefit of the doubt if you have good grades, but bomb one exam. Even if it pulls you down a letter grade, they will bump you back up if they feel it was an anomaly. Particularly if the prof knows you, and you don't miss much class.

IMO, the risk far outweighs the reward. I worked in athletics, and I didn't even know athletes who cheated. In the program I worked in (basketball), Coach Barnes would have absolutely dropped the ****ing hammer on a guy if he got caught cheating. That's why all our kids are good students. We even ran a guy off because he wasn't going to class. He ended up going to Wyoming and averaging 20 ppg, so its not like he couldn't play either.

But I digress...
 

ColKurtz

Big Member
10+ Year Member
Jan 19, 2008
167
0
Status (Visible)
  1. Medical Student
A few years ago at my school a couple of Physics grad students got kicked out because they were getting paid to take Engineering Physics for undergrads. Supposedly they had been doing it for a few semesters, so they had the whole course down packed. A couple hunderd dollars got you an A. Now in most of my classes they require you to show ID when you hand your test in.
 

copingmethods

Full Member
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Dec 10, 2006
807
1
Status (Visible)
  1. Medical Student
no not at all. is taking and studying a past MCAT exam cheating? of course not. you are using your resources, taking similar, older tests to see if you have the general knowledge down and are ready for test-like questions. its the professors responsibility to make up new questions each year, which really isn't that hard. i know professors who make old exams readily available.

I think that this actually is considered cheating if the old test wasn't given out by the professor. I believe it often says something about "unauthorized materials" in school honor codes, and this extends to past exams. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
 
About the Ads

RySerr21

i aint kinda hot Im sauna
10+ Year Member
Dec 22, 2007
5,931
30
Status (Visible)
  1. Fellow [Any Field]
I think that this actually is considered cheating if the old test wasn't given out by the professor. I believe it often says something about "unauthorized materials" in school honor codes, and this extends to past exams. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

i guess it depends where you go to school. there will different "rules" at different schools. at my school, with 1800 students, professors would be fooling themselves if they thought that old tests woould not be available to other students. but they know this......so its not a big deal.
 

knuck000

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Sep 5, 2007
65
0
Status (Visible)
  1. Medical Student
People who cheat are those who are unwilling to put in the work that is needed to succeed. There will not always be people to cheat off of or shortcuts around obstacles. I have found that it is best to ignore cheaters and know that it will eventually catch up with them. Yes, it is unfortunate that cheating can skew exams and grades, but take solace in the fact that there is no cheating on the MCAT. It's best to look at the bigger picture and deal with just another of life's minor injustices, while focusing on our success and ignoring the poor traits of others.
 

seraph524

M0
10+ Year Member
Sep 19, 2006
1,588
1
Status (Visible)
  1. MD/PhD Student
As a TA for several pre-med classes, my opinion is that if cheaters want to cheat, let them. There is only so much you can do to protect and deter against that, e.g. seats apart, no hats, different forms, no water bottles, etc. If a student really wants to cheat, they will most certainly find a way to do so. The latest example being writing answers in tattoos.

If cheaters want to lie to themselves at the pre-med level, they are only setting themselves up for failure. Like the previous posters mentioned, the MCAT, medical school exams, and the 3 board exams are basically insurmountable obstacles for an individual who has never worked hard.
 

Salsa45

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Nov 7, 2007
62
0
Status (Visible)
  1. Pre-Medical
I cheated for most of high school. Then eventually I just stopped caring about grades (this was long before I decided I wanted to do pre-med) and I also stopped cheating, because I didn't care about grades. Ironically enough, my grades went up.

My theory is that if you need to cheat, you don`t know the stuff well enough to get an A even with cheating, and that the act of cheating is stressful enough (you`re always scared of getting caught while writing the tests, exams, whatever) that it will actually debilitate your performance on things you know. Thus, with the exception of huge cheating where you cheat the entire course or exam, cheating bites itself in the *** in the end.
 

Wylde

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Sep 24, 2007
693
1
Status (Visible)
  1. Pre-Medical
A few years ago at my school a couple of Physics grad students got kicked out because they were getting paid to take Engineering Physics for undergrads. Supposedly they had been doing it for a few semesters, so they had the whole course down packed. A couple hunderd dollars got you an A. Now in most of my classes they require you to show ID when you hand your test in.

that is kind of funny haha.

Some of my finals require IDs, I don't really see too many people cheating but I'm sure it's not to hard with a cheatsheet behind your calculator or something like that :(
 

ChubbyChaser

Yummmy
10+ Year Member
Apr 14, 2007
13,168
7
Status (Visible)
  1. Medical Student
that is kind of funny haha.

Some of my finals require IDs, I don't really see too many people cheating but I'm sure it's not to hard with a cheatsheet behind your calculator or something like that :(
My school flunked pretty much a 1/3 of a general chemistry class because of this.
 

Zakaqel

Membership Revoked
Removed
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Apr 12, 2008
159
0
Status (Visible)
There is a difference between one kind of cheating and another. For example, if you tell your friend from a later section what’s going to be on the next test that is a form of cheating. But, who cares everyone does it. There are more serious cases of cheating where you screw everyone by screwing up the curve. That usually happens when you have the test/questions bank from previous year and you are getting 100’s while your fellow classmates are scoring in the fifties (this kind of cheating pisses me off). Even more serious than that is when you abuse your connections with the person in charge. I personally knew this kid who worked at a pharmacy and gave a drug-addicted-TA controlled substances(which he stole from the pharmacy) so he can get himself an A.
 

ShipsDr

Full Member
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Feb 22, 2008
61
0
Status (Visible)
  1. Pre-Medical
What undergraduate Chemistry class allows you to bring programmable calculators to the exams?

At UF we could bring graphing calcs (TI-89, etc) to the exams... all the way from Gen Chem 1 through Orgo 2. The only classes where they weren't allowed was Calculus and Physics.
 

SStorm

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Sep 25, 2006
210
0
Status (Visible)
  1. Pre-Medical
At UF we could bring graphing calcs (TI-89, etc) to the exams... all the way from Gen Chem 1 through Orgo 2. The only classes where they weren't allowed was Calculus and Physics.

My physics prof let us bring graphing calculators into class. And he also let us bring in "cheat sheets" with formulas/notes on them. The only problem was that he knew everyone would have everything on their sheets/calculators. So he made the exams impossible. And very few people got A's even with the sheets/calculators. That's one way of dealing with cheating.
 

Perrotfish

Has an MD in Horribleness
10+ Year Member
May 26, 2007
8,223
4,538
Status (Visible)
  1. Attending Physician
I´ve generally found that the amount of cheating was directly proportional to how easy it was to cheat. The OChem class where 100% of the class grade was based on procotred exams, one desk between you and the next person, no hats or programable calculators? 100% honest, and I did very well in the class. The synth class where the class was graded entirely based on lab reports that the senile teacher never looked at too closely? More than half the class just coppied old reports. When I finally asked to see an old report (not to copy it, just to see what I kept doing wrong) I was handed a stack of identical reports going back 4 years. For 4 years a student had just erased the last name and added theirs. I wrote that report on my own too, and got another 70%. Barely got a C in the class.
 
4

45408

Do you guys think studying from past exams in a given class is considered cheating?
Sometimes they're forbidden or frowned upon, but unless you stole them from a professor's office, they're usually not considered cheating. If they don't want you to have access to old exams, they shouldn't give the exams back to previous classes. A lot of my professors had old exams posted on their website.
 
4

45408

What undergraduate Chemistry class allows you to bring programmable calculators to the exams?
Mine did. You had to show that the memory had been cleared though, but if you're really good with one (I'm not), you can write a program to say it had been cleared even when it hadn't. I think it's just easier to learn the material.

Supposedly they had been doing it for a few semesters, so they had the whole course down packed.
Huh? What's down packed?
 

DoctorDreamer

In a far away land...
10+ Year Member
Dec 10, 2007
813
0
Never-Never-Land
Status (Visible)
  1. Medical Student
It's not cheating if you are using resources allowed by the teacher. I, however, had to take my OChem 1 final a couple of days late (business meeting out of town), and another guy who was taking it late told me he got the test questions from another student and offered them to me.

I didn't know what to do (obviously I didn't take them), but I saved his e-mail. I asked the professor if he would consider it cheating for me to use that information, and he said yes. When the other student scored considerably higher on the final than on his other tests, the teacher approached me and asked for a copy of the e-mail, which I gave him.

I hate being a snitch, but I still feel like it was the right thing to do.
 

HanginInThere

Full Member
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
May 24, 2007
492
1
the library
Status (Visible)
  1. Medical Student
As a TA for several pre-med classes, my opinion is that if cheaters want to cheat, let them. There is only so much you can do to protect and deter against that, e.g. seats apart, no hats, different forms, no water bottles, etc. If a student really wants to cheat, they will most certainly find a way to do so. The latest example being writing answers in tattoos.

I give up - how do you cheat with a water bottle?
 

thoffen

Member
10+ Year Member
Aug 14, 2006
1,326
662
Status (Visible)
  1. Attending Physician
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E07EFD81138F934A25752C0A9649C8B63

I was a TA for one of these classes at the time the cheat finder was being programmed that caught 186 students (that was probably of about 1000 students) for cheating. 20% is a pretty huge number, don't you think?

Bottom line is that people in a competitive environment will look to get ahead in any way they think they can get away with. Usually, it catches up to them, but there are still many frauds out there in every profession.
 

Sparda29

En Taro Adun
10+ Year Member
Mar 25, 2008
9,551
1,565
34
New York, New York
Status (Visible)
  1. Pharmacist
I see cheating as copying someone else's work because who knows if they are right. If I didn't know something on a test, I would make something up, try to get some "think outside the box" points.

But, for classes like Chemistry, Math, and Physics that require you to learn a lot of formulas in a short amount of time, then I don't really see that big of a deal in having formulas programmed.

The main thing is not if you remember the formula but if you understand what the formula does. Just because you understand it, doesn't mean you are going to remember it.
 
About the Ads
This thread is more than 13 years old.

Your message may be considered spam for the following reasons:

  1. Your new thread title is very short, and likely is unhelpful.
  2. Your reply is very short and likely does not add anything to the thread.
  3. Your reply is very long and likely does not add anything to the thread.
  4. It is very likely that it does not need any further discussion and thus bumping it serves no purpose.
  5. Your message is mostly quotes or spoilers.
  6. Your reply has occurred very quickly after a previous reply and likely does not add anything to the thread.
  7. This thread is locked.