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[Ice-1]

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Last night in the ER I overheard a PA telling a 4th year medical student on rotation there that their 4 hour certifying exam taken at the end of PA school was the equivalent of our 16 hours of Step 2 and 3.

For all of those taking these I just thought you would want to know that.

 

[bigfrank]

Isn't Step III a 2-day exam, making the Step II + III total 24 hours?

That's what I LOVE about most assistants (PAs), many meet DSM-IV criteria for Delusional Disorder, seriously.

 

[PickyBicky]

Last night in the ER I overheard a PA telling a 4th year medical student on rotation there that their 4 hour certifying exam taken at the end of PA school was the equivalent of our 16 hours of Step 2 and 3.

For all of those taking these I just thought you would want to know that.

This, at least for the PA students I've had contact with, seems to be a recurring theme: claims of "equivalency" or "extreme similarities" in curriculum, testing, clinical experience, etc. One of my favorite quotes for the pre-clinical curriculum was something to the effect of, "all our classes are the same, except we don't take embryology." I'm not a PA-hater, but a dose of reality is appropriate from time to time. The PAs in practice are generally very pleasant people, though.

-PB

 

[Ice-1]

Don't they also have a course entitiled "I'm really the same as a doctor 101" when they first enroll?

 

[FarEastGrapplr2]

Last night in the ER I overheard a PA telling a 4th year medical student on rotation there that their 4 hour certifying exam taken at the end of PA school was the equivalent of our 16 hours of Step 2 and 3.

For all of those taking these I just thought you would want to know that.

damn, where can i sign up for this 4 hour exam? my step 2 is in like 10 days, and i need to cancel 😉

 

[close2dr]

OK here is my rant.

At my school we have nurse practitioner students working with us periodically. So, on one of my ‘rougher’ rotations, we had a NP student who was extremely full of herself (and I think she had a slight complex).

She kept telling me and my classmate that she could teach us how to start IVs and how to draw blood b/c she was an ‘expert’ at it. Too bad I was a phlebotomist for five years before coming to med school and could draw blood better then her (should have seen her face when she missed a stick twice on an IVDA and had to watch me get it the first time).

She kept saying that NPs are almost equivalent to doctors and that getting her masters was as hard as obtaining a doctorate (maybe it is but, come on the last thing I wanted to hear about after 14 hours of working is how brilliant she is). She then went on to tell us that she is going to make $100,000 and not have to work weekends, pay malpractice insurance or be on call.

Finally after the first two weeks of the rotation, I got sick of it – and even though I dropped several hints that I really wasn’t interested in what she was saying she continued to keep it up. One night she made a comment that NPs now practice on their own at those stupid ‘minute clinics’ at Target and that she was thinking about doing that since she would be able to treat “common diseases” on her own (since apparently they can write scripts for antibiotics). I said, great – why don’t you do that … too bad you still will have to answer to an MD when you want to treat real diseases. I know this was probably wrong and made me look like a pompous jerk but, it got to the point that I thought I was going to have to plug my ears when I was around her.

And to top it off, they wear the longer white coats (even though they are students too) so some of the patients thought she was a doctor (since she had the stereoscope slung over her neck and the pockets full of papers like most of the residents on the team). One of the patients asked for some more pain meds and she told them that she would write for it after rounds were over. I couldn’t believe it!

OK … sorry for ranting.

 

[DeLaughterDO]

OK here is my rant.

At my school we have nurse practitioner students working with us periodically. So, on one of my ‘rougher’ rotations, we had a NP student who was extremely full of herself (and I think she had a slight complex).

She kept telling me and my classmate that she could teach us how to start IVs and how to draw blood b/c she was an ‘expert’ at it. Too bad I was a phlebotomist for five years before coming to med school and could draw blood better then her (should have seen her face when she missed a stick twice on an IVDA and had to watch me get it the first time).

She kept saying that NPs are almost equivalent to doctors and that getting her masters was as hard as obtaining a doctorate (maybe it is but, come on the last thing I wanted to hear about after 14 hours of working is how brilliant she is). She then went on to tell us that she is going to make $100,000 and not have to work weekends, pay malpractice insurance or be on call.

Finally after the first two weeks of the rotation, I got sick of it – and even though I dropped several hints that I really wasn’t interested in what she was saying she continued to keep it up. One night she made a comment that NPs now practice on their own at those stupid ‘minute clinics’ at Target and that she was thinking about doing that since she would be able to treat “common diseases” on her own (since apparently they can write scripts for antibiotics). I said, great – why don’t you do that … too bad you still will have to answer to an MD when you want to treat real diseases. I know this was probably wrong and made me look like a pompous jerk but, it got to the point that I thought I was going to have to plug my ears when I was around her.

And to top it off, they wear the longer white coats (even though they are students too) so some of the patients thought she was a doctor (since she had the stereoscope slung over her neck and the pockets full of papers like most of the residents on the team). One of the patients asked for some more pain meds and she told them that she would write for it after rounds were over. I couldn’t believe it!

OK … sorry for ranting.

Ok, I don't know exactly where she plans on working (I guess a "minute clinic..."), but most nurses carry malpractice insurance - this just goes to show she never bothered to step out into the real world and actually work in a hospital. I (and all the nurses I've known) always had malpractice insurance when I was working... just prudent, in my opinion. Also, will these 'minute clinics' not be open on weekends? Who does she think will be working them? Maybe no call at the minute clinic, but if she actually works with a physician, she will more than likely take ALL of his call. That's part of the reason why physicians hire midlevels - to take their call so they can sleep.

best of luck to her... if she wanted to practice medicine, she should have gone to medical school.

 

[Ice-1]

Yes, I too am definitely sick of the short white coat while even the janitors are wearing the longer ones. Just 3 more months and I can burn the thing!

 

[crazyjoedavola]

Last night in the ER I overheard a PA telling a 4th year medical student on rotation there that their 4 hour certifying exam taken at the end of PA school was the equivalent of our 16 hours of Step 2 and 3.

For all of those taking these I just thought you would want to know that.

As a former PA who has now taken the NCCPA exam, COMLEX I and II, and USMLE I and II, I feel I am an expert in not only taking standardized tests, but also to the point mentioned above.

The NCCPA exam (for newly graduating PA's) tests a basic understanding of subjects most likely to be encountered in a primary care setting. Think of it as a less intense Step II exam. Relatively no Step I type material. It was challenging in that, when taken, the test taker had only 1 1/2 years of "book" material and 11-12 months of clinical training. (This is of course a curriculum at a Master's level of training.)

Most PA's and PA students are "normal"/"easygoing" people (I even married one), but of course you will encounter all types of personalities.

 

[scrappy]

that is a very fair response.

i've really liked almost all the PA students i've come in contact with, and though they were often busting their butts, they realized we had to bust our butts harder and for a year and a half longer. when asked, most of them said they picked PA school over med school primarily because of the length of training and the fact that they didn't mind taking over the less complicated cases and that they didn't mind that they weren't in charge (you'd have to get over that aspect to get a job officially called someone's "assistant.") maybe we all got along because each side respected where the other was coming from. i knew they got a lot more physical exam training than us and often asked them to teach me stuff. they were aware we got more training in esoterica and pathophys and would ask me about that stuff.

that being said, i did run into one of those insecure PA-types. constantly harped on about how MDs over-order tests and got off on crossing out my orders instead of cosigning them; this led to a pretty serious pt complication that i felt completely awful about. anyway, he also loved to talk about how PA students were held to a much higher standard than med students (bc medical schools will just pass anybody). i really had to bite my tongue here.