chem 2 and organic 1 in same semester?

[CookDeRosa]

Does anyone think it's doable to take gen chem 2 and organic 1 in the same semester? I don't know anything about organic chem, but if the information isn't cumulative, it would really be a schedule saver. If the information IS cumulative, and it's going to be "well, as long as you study 24/7 you'll do fine" kind of situations, I'll pass lol. Just looking for guidance, I'm doing my prereqs independently. Thanks.

P.S. If I don't take organic 1 that semester, I'll be taking physics 2... which I fear is less useful for MCAT. My plan is to take the MCAT at the end of that semester, and take physics 2 in my gap. Really, it means waiting a cycle if I don't get organic 1 that semester, but I hesitate to say that because I don't want people to automatically assume that's a deal breaker for me. I'm just mentioning it as a factor.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Kool Dad]

It's doable. I'm taking Orgo right now. In my opinion, orgo is conceptual versus chem 2 which is more math based. It's the same amount of work you'd spend if you did chem 2 and physics 2. If you're studying for the mcats you might as well get the material really well... which means regardless of picking physics 2 and orgo.. you're going to spend about the same amount of time studying. I spend about 15 - 20 hours a week on orgo alone and did the same with chem 2.

In all honesty, if you're thinking can't handle chem 2 and orgo in one semester you're going to have a lot of trouble on the mcats, especially if you want to take it right after the semester you finish those classes.

 

[mspeedwagon]

Since I'm about to take Chem 2 after having taken 2 semester of oragnic, I definitely vote that is doable. That said, I wouldn't rush your courses since you need adequate time to prepare for the MCAT. Doing well in class doesn't automatically translate into doing well on the MCAT.

 

[sharmi]

Since I'm about to take Chem 2 after having taken 2 semester of oragnic, I definitely vote that is doable. That said, I wouldn't rush your courses since you need adequate time to prepare for the MCAT. Doing well in class doesn't automatically translate into doing well on the MCAT.

On a side note: are you taking chem 2 at UCB extn in the fall ?

 

[mspeedwagon]

If they offer chem 2 in the fall (fingers crossed). Historically they have not. I will definitely be taking Physics I there in the fall. I might be left with no choice but to take the UNE online chem 2 class otherwise. My travel schedule won't allow me to take it in the spring.

I'm hoping the fact that I have taken classes at a variety of institutions of different pedigrees and done relatively well overshadows the fact that I have to take one class online (assuming it comes down to this).

On a side note: are you taking chem 2 at UCB extn in the fall ?

 

[CookDeRosa]

Thanks! Off to register!

 

[ArkansasRanger]

Despite all the crap I've ever heard about organic chemistry I'm now beginning to think that it's going to be easier (for me) than general chemistry. Largely, I suck at applying math to a given problem. I can do arithmetic, and I can solve problems. However, putting the two together isn't something the Arkansan here does well. Organic, from what little exposure I've had to it, actually seems interesting (unlike general chem), and it seems to follow a logical progression (unlike the damned numbers of general chem).

Thoughts?

 

[mspeedwagon]

Definitely don't make any assumptions about o-chem. Go in expecting it to be the hardest class you will take (for many it is) and be prepared to work as such. While I didn't think o-chem was difficult, it definitely takes tons and tons of time to master the concepts. I think if you give o-chem the respect it deserves it is definitely something that can be conquered.

Despite all the crap I've ever heard about organic chemistry I'm now beginning to think that it's going to be easier (for me) than general chemistry. Largely, I suck at applying math to a given problem. I can do arithmetic, and I can solve problems. However, putting the two together isn't something the Arkansan here does well. Organic, from what little exposure I've had to it, actually seems interesting (unlike general chem), and it seems to follow a logical progression (unlike the damned numbers of general chem).

Thoughts?

 

[ArkansasRanger]

Definitely don't make any assumptions about o-chem. Go in expecting it to be the hardest class you will take (for many it is) and be prepared to work as such. While I didn't think o-chem was difficult, it definitely takes tons and tons of time to master the concepts. I think if you give o-chem the respect it deserves it is definitely something that can be conquered.

Oh, I expect it to be hard.

 

[sharmi]

If they offer chem 2 in the fall (fingers crossed). Historically they have not. I will definitely be taking Physics I there in the fall. I might be left with no choice but to take the UNE online chem 2 class otherwise. My travel schedule won't allow me to take it in the spring.

I'm hoping the fact that I have taken classes at a variety of institutions of different pedigrees and done relatively well overshadows the fact that I have to take one class online (assuming it comes down to this).

They are - only in the Redwood City center. I will be taking Physics 2 and Chem 2 both there.

 

[brdmadgrl82]

Hmmm, my schools requires we complete full year of inorganic both 101 and 102 prior to Organic Chem (professor said it helps and builds on what we learned- we did a Carbon chapter in Chem 1). This is why I am losing a year in the post-bac, because I cannot take at the same time.

 

[mspeedwagon]

I live in Redwood City... so that would be great for me. Do you know what day it'll be offered on? I actually just noticed they offered G-Chem I in Redwood City on Mondays and it was taught by Diane Wakeham. I love that woman and if the class is on Mondays and she is teaching it, I'm so in.

Need to check with work to make sure it isn't a problem and talk to the prof. about the potential of missing a class or two when I need to travel.

They are - only in the Redwood City center. I will be taking Physics 2 and Chem 2 both there.

 

[Dartmouth2005]

Does anyone think it's doable to take gen chem 2 and organic 1 in the same semester? I don't know anything about organic chem, but if the information isn't cumulative, it would really be a schedule saver. If the information IS cumulative, and it's going to be "well, as long as you study 24/7 you'll do fine" kind of situations, I'll pass lol. Just looking for guidance, I'm doing my prereqs independently. Thanks.

P.S. If I don't take organic 1 that semester, I'll be taking physics 2... which I fear is less useful for MCAT. My plan is to take the MCAT at the end of that semester, and take physics 2 in my gap. Really, it means waiting a cycle if I don't get organic 1 that semester, but I hesitate to say that because I don't want people to automatically assume that's a deal breaker for me. I'm just mentioning it as a factor.

Definitely doable.

 

[CookDeRosa]

Hmmm, my schools requires we complete full year of inorganic both 101 and 102 prior to Organic Chem (professor said it helps and builds on what we learned- we did a Carbon chapter in Chem 1). This is why I am losing a year in the post-bac, because I cannot take at the same time.

>>

I'm getting off on a technicality, I'm taking it at a different school than my other courses.

 

[CookDeRosa]

Definitely doable.

>>


Thanks. I wasn't worried about work load, I was worried about it being cumulative knowledge- like learning the alphabet before learning to read 🙂

 

[Dartmouth2005]

>>


Thanks. I wasn't worried about work load, I was worried about it being cumulative knowledge- like learning the alphabet before learning to read 🙂

Orgo was pretty easy for me. I found that memorization and practice problems were the key to my success. There is virtually no math here which is the biggest difference that I noticed between orgo and gen chem II. I think you can do orgo before you do gen chem II. At Wayne State, I know those kids have orgo in their sequence before gen chem II.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

Everything from gen chem that you need to know is covered in 1-2 class periods. They aren't cumulative. Know intermolecular forces, basic information about acids and bases and solubility and you will be more than fine. They are completely different beasts.

 

[sharmi]

I live in Redwood City... so that would be great for me. Do you know what day it'll be offered on? I actually just noticed they offered G-Chem I in Redwood City on Mondays and it was taught by Diane Wakeham. I love that woman and if the class is on Mondays and she is teaching it, I'm so in.

Yes they did. I took it. She will be teaching (at least thats what she said) GChem 2 in the Fall at RWC. The lecture will be on Thursdays, though.

 

[mspeedwagon]

Not good... If Physics I and G-Chem II are both offered on Thurs, I would likely opt to take Physics. I realistically can only take classes on Mon/Thurs/Fri/Sat. I took G-Chem I at Canada College and they switched they did a similar thing switching their schedule to no longer make it feasible for me to take the second half of the course. Thanks for the heads-up.

Yes they did. I took it. She will be teaching (at least thats what she said) GChem 2 in the Fall at RWC. The lecture will be on Thursdays, though.

 

[sharmi]

Not good... If Physics I and G-Chem II are both offered on Thurs, I would likely opt to take Physics. I realistically can only take classes on Mon/Thurs/Fri/Sat. I took G-Chem I at Canada College and they switched they did a similar thing switching their schedule to no longer make it feasible for me to take the second half of the course. Thanks for the heads-up.

I think that RWC is offering the 1st course for Phys and GChem in the Spring and the 2nd course in the Fall. For GChem 2 the lab is on Monday and the lecture is on Thursday. Phys 2 lecture is on Tuesday and lab is on Saturday. They will offer GChem 1 and Phys 1 in the Spring again, Together with OChem 1. They only offer both Bio 1 and Bio 2 together in both the Fall and the Spring. This is only about the classes at the RWC campus. Good luck with your classes !

 

[EdLongshanks]

Does anyone think it's doable to take gen chem 2 and organic 1 in the same semester? I don't know anything about organic chem, but if the information isn't cumulative, it would really be a schedule saver. If the information IS cumulative, and it's going to be "well, as long as you study 24/7 you'll do fine" kind of situations, I'll pass lol. Just looking for guidance, I'm doing my prereqs independently. Thanks.

P.S. If I don't take organic 1 that semester, I'll be taking physics 2... which I fear is less useful for MCAT. My plan is to take the MCAT at the end of that semester, and take physics 2 in my gap. Really, it means waiting a cycle if I don't get organic 1 that semester, but I hesitate to say that because I don't want people to automatically assume that's a deal breaker for me. I'm just mentioning it as a factor.

There is no way that I could have gotten a good grade in OChem without having finished Chem II. OChem assumes a knowledge of acid-base reactions. It assumes a knowledge of Lewis vs Bronsted acids, it assumes that you know a little about functional groups (OH, and CO). You'll have about 1 week to memorize everything from Ethers, to Esters, to Aldehydes and if you've never seen them before you will be in trouble. You have to already know that Ka is higher for stronger acids and pKa is lower for strong acids. It assumes you know about polar versus non-polar bonds.

I'm a good student, but trying to take CHem II and OChem together would have got me a B in both classes.

 

[mspeedwagon]

I saw that the were offering the sequences in reverse in RWC. I'm assuming Prof. Wakeham told you that the lecture was going to be offered on Thurs instead of Mon?

I guess I'll have to wait for the official catalogues to come out to make a decision on what I'm going to do. I've been considering dropping work to finish this properly. Granted, my practice MCATs may dictate this (if I were to drop work, I'd be absolutely committed to having to get into med school to start in 2012). I'm also considering putting med school off a year to potentially get married in 2012. Since my gf graduates med school in 2012 that would allow me to know where she starts residency and where I should apply.

If you see a person in sporting a Brazil (or Argentina) t-shirt or jersey in one of your classes, say hi. I'm hopeful that Brazil or Argentina will win the World Cup.

I think that RWC is offering the 1st course for Phys and GChem in the Spring and the 2nd course in the Fall. For GChem 2 the lab is on Monday and the lecture is on Thursday. Phys 2 lecture is on Tuesday and lab is on Saturday. They will offer GChem 1 and Phys 1 in the Spring again, Together with OChem 1. They only offer both Bio 1 and Bio 2 together in both the Fall and the Spring. This is only about the classes at the RWC campus. Good luck with your classes !

 

[mspeedwagon]

I don't disagree that you have to know all the things listed below. However they are re-taught in o-chem. Memorizing functional groups is pretty straight forward. Guys like electrons... Lewis is a guy so Lewis acids accept electrons. Brownsted acids donate hydrogens. Probably doesn't take too long to learn this either. The Pka stuff is more tricky. They do spend time teaching you how to identify strong acids in organic chemistry though.

My suggestion is to get the "Oragnic Chemistry as a 2nd language" book and read through it. Familiarize yourself with a lot of the basics. If you do a few searches on sdn there are a few threads that talk about G-Chem II you need to know in order to do well in O-chem I.

Classes are taught somewhat differently at different places. Quite a few of the topics mentioned below I learned in the first semester of g-chem. They are mostly straightforward to learn, but do require time. There is no way of getting around the fact that o-chem takes a lot of time to master.

OChem assumes a knowledge of acid-base reactions. It assumes a knowledge of Lewis vs Bronsted acids, it assumes that you know a little about functional groups (OH, and CO). You'll have about 1 week to memorize everything from Ethers, to Esters, to Aldehydes and if you've never seen them before you will be in trouble. You have to already know that Ka is higher for stronger acids and pKa is lower for strong acids. It assumes you know about polar versus non-polar bonds.

 

[sharmi]

I saw that the were offering the sequences in reverse in RWC. I'm assuming Prof. Wakeham told you that the lecture was going to be offered on Thurs instead of Mon?

I am in their post bacc program and we get a preview of the classes offered in the upcoming semester way ahead of time. That helps me plan my schedule ahead of time. I am planning an international 3-4 week long trip in Dec - Jan so I know exactly what my last date of class will be for the fall.

BTW - I want Brazil to win as well.

 

[mspeedwagon]

Super helpful to know. I sent you a pm. I would love to see what dates G-Chem II lecture is offered in RWC in the fall (less concerned about the lab since I plan to take all labs while I'm applying... have yet to take the o-chem labs). And, also what dates is Physics I lecture being offered in the fall. If they are on different days and they start in mid-Sep, I think I can make a case at work to do extensive traveling through mid-Sep in order to cut travel for Oct-Dec. Planning my schedule now would make convincing work much easier.

I am in their post bacc program and we get a preview of the classes offered in the upcoming semester way ahead of time. That helps me plan my schedule ahead of time. I am planning an international 3-4 week long trip in Dec - Jan so I know exactly what my last date of class will be for the fall.

BTW - I want Brazil to win as well.

 

[aza]

I know a handful of people who did this. They all did well in both courses, but they were a very self-selecting group (confident in their abilities, focused, hard workers). Heck, I even know a guy who skipped gen chem completely and just took o-chem and he got As both semesters (he was bright but not a genius or anything. He was, however, an incredibly hard worker. He was also a non-trad who hadn't seen any chem since high school 20 years earlier).

In my o-chem classes, there was a small amount of gen chem that was truly necessary (I'll list the topics for you below). The prof reviewed them in the first lecture but he flew through them quickly and if the topics had been brand-new to someone, s/he probably would've been screwed - it was more of a review than an attempt to teach someone who was seeing them for the first time. But, if I remember correctly, the topics were all covered to some extent in 1st semester gen chem (although your mileage may vary depending on how your school structures its gen chem classes).

Topics to know for o-chem:
1. Lewis structures, formal charge
2. Resonance (important) - be able to draw resonance structures and determine their relative importance/contributions (i.e. which ones are 'best')
3. VSEPR - you've got to know (up to an atom w/ 4 bonds or lone pairs) the hybridization, shape, and bond angle (e.g. NH3 = sp3, trigonal pyramidal, 107 degrees)
4. basics of molecular orbital theory. Familiarity with the MO diagrams (but you don't need to remember the specific ones they made you memorize in gen chem - just be comfortable with them and know what you're looking at), familiarity with words/concepts like 'orbital', 'node', 'phase'
5. remember the essence of solubility ('like dissolves like')
6. very basics of acids/bases (you don't need the math, ICE charts, etc. Most of what you DO need will be reviewed again and it will certainly be in the textbook, but it would be good if you've got some familiarity with Bronsted-Lowry and Lewis definitions)
7. Periodic table trends in electronegativity, effective nuclear charge & size will be helpful in understanding certain concepts
8. (not INCREDIBLY important but it certainly came up in my o-chem course) - definitions of G, H, S (gibbs free energy, the measure of spontaneity; enthalpy; entropy). Some familiarity with equations: deltaG = deltaH - TdeltaS; enthalpy of reaction = enthalpy of bonds broken minus bonds formed (minor importance but still helpful). You definitely need to know what 'endothermic' and 'exothermic' mean.
9. types of bonds and intermolecular forces (H bonds, permanent dipoles, London)

If you're good on all of those things then IMO you're fully prepared for the cumulative aspects of o-chem.

 

[ArkansasRanger]

Ah ****.

I hate resonance. 😡

 

[aza]

Hi Arkansas Ranger,
If you hate resonance, it probably wouldn't hurt to practice it a bit before o-chem starts. I wouldn't worry TOO much though if resonance isn't your strongest point right now b/c it's often covered somewhat weakly in gen chem (my o-chem class had students who'd taken gen chem at a huge variety of schools and according to our o-chem prof, only 10% of the class received full credit for the resonance question on the first quiz. By the end of the first semester, most of the students could draw resonance structures with their eyes closed!)
Still, if you know it's a weak point, a bit of practice beforehand can't hurt!

As for your earlier question, plenty of people who struggled in gen chem do fabulously in o-chem. My o-chem prof actually maintained that students who did poorly in gen chem tended to get the highest grades in his course. In fact, he became an organic chemist b/c he himself struggled so much with the mathematical parts of gen chem the first time he took it!
If your major problem with gen chem is difficulty with the algebra, there's a very good chance that o-chem will play better to your strengths. I'm not sure that o-chem is more interesting than gen chem (there are interesting parts and a good teacher can make it all SEEM interesting, but the majority of the course is just reaction mechanism after reaction mechanism and that's pretty tedious for a lot of people), but it's definitely more visual and less mathematical.

But you should still go in with the expectation that you'll have to work your tail off b/c that's true for 90% of the students who do well (reference: The Journal of Statistics that I Pulled out of My Ass). There are plenty of students who struggle in both courses!
At the same time, I think it's very good that you realize that gen chem and o-chem are very different courses. I've seen students who struggled in gen chem come into o-chem with a sense of defeat/failure (i.e. they start with the attitude "I suck at chemistry. I did poorly in gen chem and I'll do poorly here too") and that usually turns into a self-fulfilling prophecy. So long as you're OK with the topics I listed above, there is NO REASON that your difficulties in gen chem need to carry over into o-chem. You don't want to be OVER-confident, but confidence that you can succeed often turns into a self-fulfilling prophecy too!

 

[ArkansasRanger]

Hi Arkansas Ranger,
If you hate resonance, it probably wouldn't hurt to practice it a bit before o-chem starts. I wouldn't worry TOO much though if resonance isn't your strongest point right now b/c it's often covered somewhat weakly in gen chem (my o-chem class had students who'd taken gen chem at a huge variety of schools and according to our o-chem prof, only 10% of the class received full credit for the resonance question on the first quiz. By the end of the first semester, most of the students could draw resonance structures with their eyes closed!)
Still, if you know it's a weak point, a bit of practice beforehand can't hurt!

As for your earlier question, plenty of people who struggled in gen chem do fabulously in o-chem. My o-chem prof actually maintained that students who did poorly in gen chem tended to get the highest grades in his course. In fact, he became an organic chemist b/c he himself struggled so much with the mathematical parts of gen chem the first time he took it!
If your major problem with gen chem is difficulty with the algebra, there's a very good chance that o-chem will play better to your strengths. I'm not sure that o-chem is more interesting than gen chem (there are interesting parts and a good teacher can make it all SEEM interesting, but the majority of the course is just reaction mechanism after reaction mechanism and that's pretty tedious for a lot of people), but it's definitely more visual and less mathematical.

But you should still go in with the expectation that you'll have to work your tail off b/c that's true for 90% of the students who do well (reference: The Journal of Statistics that I Pulled out of My Ass). There are plenty of students who struggle in both courses!
At the same time, I think it's very good that you realize that gen chem and o-chem are very different courses. I've seen students who struggled in gen chem come into o-chem with a sense of defeat/failure (i.e. they start with the attitude "I suck at chemistry. I did poorly in gen chem and I'll do poorly here too") and that usually turns into a self-fulfilling prophecy. So long as you're OK with the topics I listed above, there is NO REASON that your difficulties in gen chem need to carry over into o-chem. You don't want to be OVER-confident, but confidence that you can succeed often turns into a self-fulfilling prophecy too!

Thanks for the motivating words. That's got to be the most positive reply to anything I've ever seen on SDN. 🙂 👍