chiropractor calling himself a physican????

[244869]

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stop reeditting your posts. Stick to what you say and let the discussion flow. Just because ppl are flamming your boorish posts doesn't mean you should redact your statements. Some of them are valid- most are not. Either way, it makes for an interesting thread.

Very well...

Original post...

As there seems to be a lot of confusion about a podiatric physician's current education, I have asked that this thread be posted at the top of our forum. I am hoping that this post will save us the trouble of endlessly explaining our education, as well as educate those that are unaware of our training. Thanks to ItsGavinC!

A Podiatric Physician's education consists of:
-4 years college (med school pre-reqs)
-4 years podiatric medical school
-3 years podiatric surgical residency

The most erroneous statement made is that podiatrists only know/need to know about the foot and ankle. While this is our specialty, we are also taught a great deal about general medicine. This is because we must medically manage our ER patients/surgical patients/inpatients. When called into the ER or managing our inpatients, we must have the ability to order a plethra of tests, read those tests, consult if necessary, and treat the patient accordingly.

So where do we get this medical education? Besides our first two years consisting of basic science and systems (as an MD/DO curriculum, some podiatry programs being fully integrated with MD/DO programs), and various general medical rotations 3-4 year (depending on the program), our residency allows us to rotate through many different medical specialties (ER, general surgery, path, IM, etc). And along with medically managing our own patients during residency, we are well educated by the time we finish residency.

Podiatric medicine is an extremely challenging and rewarding area of medicine. As stated before, make SURE this is what you want to do because, unlike MD/DO, you can't just change your mind on specialties!

Below is an example of a podiatric medical school curriculum (which vary slightly from school to school) and an example of a 3-year surgical residency (PM&S-36).

Podiatric Medical School Curriculum

-First-Year Academic Program

Introduction to Podiatric Medicine
Basic Life Support
Biochemistry
Honors Problem-Based Learning Biochemistry (elective)
Anatomy
Histology
Immunology
Physiology
Microbiology
Honors Problem-Based Learning Microbiology (elective)
Physical Diagnosis
Pathology
Neuroanatomy
Pharmacology I

-Second-Year Academic Program

Pharmacology
Endocrinology
Cardiovascular/Respiratory
Hematology
Lower Extremity Biomechanics
Neurology
Gastrointestinal/Nutrition
Renal
Lower Limb Anatomy
Behavioral Medicine
Clinical Podiatric Medicine & Diagnostics (includes Radiology)
Clinical Podiatric Biomechanics & Surgery
Medical Research and Writing
During the summer at the end of the second year, you are introduced to the University ambulatory care clinics, where you begin acquiring clinical skills.

-Third-Year Academic Program

Basic Life Support Re-certification
Operating Room Protocol
Dermatology
Trauma/Emergency Medicine
Public Health Issues
Advanced Cardiac Life Support
Clinical Rotations
Principles & Practices of Evidence-Based Podiatric Medicine (Problem-Based Learning)

-Fourth-Year Academic Program

Senior Independent Readings
Clinical Rotations

PM&S-36 Residency Curriculum (varies between programs)

-PGY 1

Podiatric Medicine and Surgery* - 2 month
Medical Imaging - 1 month
Pathology - 1 month
Medicine - 1 month
Emergency Medicine - 1 month
Infectious Diseases - 1 month
Anesthesia - 1 month
General Surgery - 1 month
Orthopaedic Surgery - 1 month
Psychiatry - 2 weeks
Electives (3)** - 1 month each

*Concurrent with other rotations
**Vascular surgery, family medicine, neurology, rheumatology, rehabilitative medicine, geriatrics, other rotations available

-PGY 2&3

Podiatric Surgery - 3 months
Orthopaedic Surgery - 3 months
Orthopaedic Trauma - 3 months
Orthopaedic Foot & Ankle - 3 months
Sports Medicine - 3 months
Pediatric Orthopaedics- 3 months

 

[87138]

Here's simple logic.

You "shared countless" classes with DPM therefore DPM education is < yours???? flawed ain't it.

I don't believe Schrute ever questioned the quality of the DPM preclinical curriculum, nor did he state that his preclinical curriculum was superior.

 

[244869]

Dude you're a space man. I seriously can't argue with someone so illogical. Sorry. Go sell this argument to a dermatology resident who got into a top 10 med school with a 36/4.0 and landed a derm residency with a 260+ step 1. Then sell it to the vascular surgeon who spent 7 years in residency post med school. Also, one last point, try doing anything above the ankle. Won't work. My FP could fix in ingrown toenail and do a mammogram (just an example, please don't be nerdy and tell me x specialty handles this) in the same half hour at work, I can't say a pod could do the same. Listen, no one is trying to bash pods, or say they have no place in healthcare, but you saying they are the dermatologist, orthopedic surgeon, vascular surgeon of the foot and ankle just screams insecurity.

Derm requires high stats because it is a saught after field...not because it is extremely difficult. Simple supply and demand.

 

[244869]

I don't believe Schrute ever questioned the quality of the DPM preclinical curriculum, no did he state that his preclinical curriculum was superior.

So he questioned post clinical...residency??

A 1st year pod resident in a good program will have performed between 400-500 surgeries by the end of the first year. A pod who has undergone a 3 year residency has the training to do forefoot and rearfoot reconstructive surgery, administer proper diabetic wound care, fix biomechanical issues of the feet...oh and clip toe nails.

 

[Peptoboy]

So he questioned post clinical...residency??

A 1st year pod resident in a good program will have performed between 400-500 surgeries by the end of the first year. A pod who has undergone a 3 year residency has the training to do forefoot and rearfoot reconstructive surgery, administer proper diabetic wound care, fix biomechanical issues of the feet...oh and clip toe nails.

👍 Thats great! Look, I did not want to waste my time arguing with a Pre-Pod student in an Osteopathic forum and I explained to you that I think that Podiatrists are very much needed. I think you are a little upset and missunderstanding me. I did not say that a Podiatrist was not fully qualified, I just simply have a problem with your ignorance in stating that somehow an optometrist and podiatrist are more qualified than an MD/DO out of residency. That is totally bogus and false! Please help me to understand which qualifications the pod or optometrist will have that qualify them at a higher level.

 

[244869]

👍 Thats great! Look, I did not want to waste my time arguing with a Pre-Pod student in an Osteopathic forum and I explained to you that I think that Podiatrists are very much needed. I think you are a little upset and missunderstanding me. I did not say that a Podiatrist was not fully qualified, I just simply have a problem with your ignorance in stating that somehow an optometrist and podiatrist are more qualified than an MD/DO out of residency. That is totally bogus and false! Please help me to understand which qualifications the pod or optometrist will have that qualify them at a higher level.

Did you not read my previous post where I answered your question directly? Post residency pod > post fellowship foot and ankle ortho...in terms of foot and ankle surgery and care. BUT 5 years down the line...it all depends on the practice they are in.

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

or a 3 year ortho residency,

This is a joke right? You get to do 5 years ortho and THEN you can do a hand fellowship

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

I REALLY wish people would stop using "fail" as a noun. It'll go the way of the Macarena soon, I'm hoping.

Anyway, what he/she was saying was simply a reiteration of "supply and demand" which you apparently unwittingly supported with your comments. If people with 4.0/35 stats were furiously applying to podiatry school, a lot less of those 3.0/20 students would be getting in (obviously this would dilute the MD/DO application pool some, but that's not pertinent here). The number of spots in podiatry school (which is an extension of the number of podiatry schools) nationwide is MORE than accommodating to qualified applicants, to the point where seemingly "unqualified' (I hesitate to use that word) students are accepted to fill the spots that would otherwise go unfilled.

You even agreed that with Vet school, it's competitive because there are so few schools (and thus so few spots). It has the opposite problem Pod schools do.

Uh, so you agreed with me. He tried to make an analogy of Vet school and Pod school. Totally different. One is hard to get into, one isn't. He basically, in not as blunt a manner said that Podiatry is not popular.

Anyways, fail for you and your reading comprehension for the day.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Derm requires high stats because it is a saught after field...not because it is extremely difficult. Simple supply and demand.

Honestly you could not misinterpret things more. You don't know **** about med school, residency, and life post that. Quit talking out of your ass in an attempt to defend pods.

 

[244869]

Honestly you could not misinterpret things more. You don't know **** about med school, residency, and life post that. Quit talking out of your ass in an attempt to defend pods.

haha this post is so funny. Derm is a saught after field and that is why high stats are necessary...med students and residents will agree with this statement.

 

[JaggerPlate]

haha this post is so funny.

What's life like on the moon???

 

[JaggerPlate]

Also, is there a reason why you edit every post you make?? It makes replying to you even more random and confusing.

 

[87138]

Uh, so you agreed with me. He tried to make an analogy of Vet school and Pod school. Totally different. One is hard to get into, one isn't. He basically, in not as blunt a manner said that Podiatry is not popular.

Anyways, fail for you and your reading comprehension for the day.

Huh? He was clearly not saying "Vet school and Pod school are both comparable in quality of applicants." He was using two essentially opposing circumstances to illustrate the same phenomenon: Supply and demand.

Somewhere along the lines you interpreted "Pod schools have low stats due to low popularity and Vet schools have high stats due to high popularity (even moreso than medical school, relative to availability of spots)" as "Podiatry applicants are on equal footing as Vet applicants."

"Fail" all around for you.

 

[MAC]

Did you not read my previous post where I answered your question directly? Post residency pod > post fellowship foot and ankle ortho...in terms of foot and ankle surgery and care. BUT 5 years down the line...it all depends on the practice they are in.

If post residency pod > post fellowship foot and ankle ortho then how come many post residency pods still trying to do foot and ankle ortho fellowships?

 

[J1515]

Post residency pod > post fellowship foot and ankle ortho...in terms of foot and ankle surgery and care.

 

[244869]

If post residency pod > post fellowship foot and ankle ortho then how come many post residency pods still trying to do foot and ankle ortho fellowships?

Few have been able to and most do it do satiate the ortho bias...basically doing an ortho fellowship will make a pod more competitive (in the eyes of ortho) when it comes to a foot and ankle surgical position in an ortho group.

 

[244869]

foot and ankle surgeries in pod residency >> foot and ankle surgeries in ortho foot and ankle fellowship.

Its just shear numbers pal...the more surgeries you do the better your skill.

 

[Jamers]

Well NDs are pushing for residencies now so ... christ.

Yep, then you sit back and wonder "what the **** did I go to school this long for? I should have just went the easy NP route and begged for someone to call me doctor." Its great to look at my future of over 200K in debt to know that, someday, a DNP or PA that spent half as much time in education as I did will have the same title as me with, of course, 1/3rd the debt.

 

[devilpup]

Yep, then you sit back and wonder "what the **** did I go to school this long for?

hhmmm, to help people and get paid for it. But I hear you man.

What I call the "doctorification" of allied health professionals will continue gaining strength. In the process, I actively try not to forget why I decided to take this long path.

Good luck on Step II !

 

[MAC]

Yep, then you sit back and wonder "what the **** did I go to school this long for? I should have just went the easy NP route and begged for someone to call me doctor." Its great to look at my future of over 200K in debt to know that, someday, a DNP or PA that spent half as much time in education as I did will have the same title as me with, of course, 1/3rd the debt.

ND, DNP, and PA are all wanting to expand their scope of practice with half the amount of education. This is the reason the AMA needs to fight to put a stop to this.

 

[rkaz]

ND, DNP, and PA are all wanting to expand their scope of practice with half the amount of education. This is the reason the AMA needs to fight to put a stop to this.

By 'ND' we are referring to the naturopaths here. The naturopaths of the 5 accredited schools have a curriculum which has much similarity to the MD/DO curriculum. http://www.bridgeport.edu/pages/2632.asp That's why they are refered to as 'naturopathic physicians'. In some states, such as Arizona, they can also hold the title 'NMD' to incorporate 'Medical' into their titles. Residencies are not required, although some 1-2 year residencies exist and others are in the works. http://www.ncnm.edu/naturopathic-medicine-residency-program.php

Response to AMA: http://aanp.timberlakepublishing.com/content.asp?contentid=132

Licensure Efforts: http://www.aanmc.org/careers/naturopathic-doctor-licensure.php

Here's a current state legislature piece from Alaska, which discusses national issues of licensure. This is a good one to read: http://www.aksenate.org/sponsor/SB070_ss_sen_davis.pdf

 

[JaggerPlate]

foot and ankle surgeries in pod residency >> foot and ankle surgeries in ortho foot and ankle fellowship.

Its just shear numbers pal...the more surgeries you do the better your skill.

ROFL. You are unreal.

 

[244869]

ROFL. You are unreal.

DUDE...are you truly slow??

The more experienced one is always better...especially in a procedural field. Pod residencies do more foot and ankle surgeries than ortho foot and ankle fellowship. This is a fact.

Yes ortho has a longer residency/fellowship...but who sees more foot and ankle surgeries...pods do.

 

[Jamers]

ND, DNP, and PA are all wanting to expand their scope of practice with half the amount of education. This is the reason the AMA needs to fight to put a stop to this.

We ALL need to step up and fight back. This is how we got in this situation in the first place: doctors too willing to bend over and take it without a fight. We nearly had a law passed here in Iowa (just last week actually) that would have allowed PAs to own and operate companies that would employ physicians. Basically, the PA would be the MD/DOs boss but the liability would still fall on the MD/DOs shoulders. A win-win for the PA and loss-loss for any physician stupid enough to take the deal.

 

[JaggerPlate]

DUDE...are you truly slow??

The more experienced one is always better...especially in a procedural field. Pod residencies do more foot and ankle surgeries than ortho foot and ankle fellowship. This is a fact.

Yes ortho has a longer residency/fellowship...but who sees more foot and ankle surgeries...pods do.

Once again, you completely misinterpreted what I was even laughing at because you were too busy being defensive ....

I was cracking up at your telling a Med Student/Resident (I can't remember which he is) the way it was in the medical world, then calling him pal. You're a little too big for your britches there tiger. Might want to gain a little experience with .... anything .... before you spout off stuff in a medical student thread.

 

[244869]

Once again, you completely misinterpreted what I was even laughing at because you were too busy being defensive ....

I was cracking up at your telling a Med Student/Resident (I can't remember which he is) the way it was in the medical world, then calling him pal. You're a little too big for your britches there tiger. Might want to gain a little experience with .... anything .... before you spout off stuff in a medical student thread.

You were cracking up because I called someone a pal? Am I not correct in saying that more training means better? and pods indeed get more training in foot and ankle surgery than ortho foot and ankle. Just because he/she is a med student/resident does not make him/her correct. I am right and I am correcting him/her. And I never meant to use "pal" to talk down to him/her. You are the one misinterpreting.

 

[niranjan162]

We ALL need to step up and fight back. This is how we got in this situation in the first place: doctors too willing to bend over and take it without a fight. We nearly had a law passed here in Iowa (just last week actually) that would have allowed PAs to own and operate companies that would employ physicians. Basically, the PA would be the MD/DOs boss but the liability would still fall on the MD/DOs shoulders. A win-win for the PA and loss-loss for any physician stupid enough to take the deal.

I thought PA's were regulated by a BOM and as such always have to practice under physician supervision?

 

[slick27]

Who ever would do the best quality work is who I would want operating. I don't care who has more training in foot and/or ankle surgery. Just because one might have more training doesn't mean they are a good surgeron. Thats what I don't get about podiatry. How do adcoms of those schools know that the people that they admit have the dexterity to conduct quality surgery based on getting a 21 MCAT?

Some people in MD/DO schools don't have the ability/dexterity to conduct surgery thus they go into medicine areas. Podiatry doesn't have this option.

 

[MedStudentWanna]

That's still the exception, "dude." Poll any DO class (which usually avg ~150 in number) what their MCATs were and you're going to find the "norm" to be nowhere near 20.

Just cuz a handful of hacks post how they got in with a 19 or 20 doesn't mean it's the norm, nor does it negate the possibility the person had a significant "in" or had someone pull some strings for them.

Who said anything about it being the norm? Either you're trying to change the argument or you don't even know what the argument was. The point was that it DOES happen unlike what other posters on this thread have said. No one said it was the norm.

 

[arielchiro]

I overheard a chiropractor introducing himself as a chiropractic Physician....is the accurate?? I am not trying to criticise chiropractors I just did not think they could call themselves a physician.

Chiropractors, also known as doctors of chiropractic or chiropractic physicians, diagnose and treat patients with health problems of the musculoskeletal system and treat the effects of those problems on the nervous system and on general health. Many chiropractic treatments deal specifically with the spine and the manipulation of the spine. Chiropractic medicine is based on the principle that spinal joint misalignments interfere with the nervous system and can result in lower resistance to disease and many different conditions of diminished health.

 

[MAC]

We ALL need to step up and fight back. This is how we got in this situation in the first place: doctors too willing to bend over and take it without a fight. We nearly had a law passed here in Iowa (just last week actually) that would have allowed PAs to own and operate companies that would employ physicians. Basically, the PA would be the MD/DOs boss but the liability would still fall on the MD/DOs shoulders. A win-win for the PA and loss-loss for any physician stupid enough to take the deal.

I agree. I am doing a rotation with this group of 14 doctors and they will not hire a PA or NP.

Also, it is important that we (medical students and physicians) all join the AMA since it is our only voice.

 

[engineeredout]

You were cracking up because I called someone a pal? Am I not correct in saying that more training means better? and pods indeed get more training in foot and ankle surgery than ortho foot and ankle. Just because he/she is a med student/resident does not make him/her correct. I am right and I am correcting him/her. And I never meant to use "pal" to talk down to him/her. You are the one misinterpreting.

Couple nephrons short of a kidney aren't we?

 

[Ki45toryu]

Naturopathic Doctors, in 4 states, can be fully licensed as Family Practitioners....so if scripting meds and doing minor surgeries are some people's cutoff for the term 'physician', then dont they qualify as such?

And Pod's, who can script meds and perform surgeries, should then also reserve the right to be called a physician.

At Midwestern we(DO's) take all of our basic science courses with Pod's, so they do receive a similar education...although their first 2 year clinical format is a little bit different than ours.

 

[PMRMD2B]

Ahhh.. its been a long time since I posted on here.. but I will talk a little about the chiropractic "physician".

I am/was a chiropractor for 7 years before going back to medical school. Back in the day I proudly went around calling myself doctor.. and stating I was a physician. SO..

1. These two terms come from the fact that a chiropractor does recieve a doctorate level degree. Therefore, they can use the title doctor, but it is mis-leading.

2. Medicare (HHS) listed chiropractors as primary portal of entry physicians 10-12 years ago. This was a milestone for chiro because it reconized them federally as physicians, and now allowed them to qualify for physician reimbursment under Medicare, and other insurance programs.

However, now that I have finished my 2nd year of medical school, I will tell you that I have called all my MD friends and told them I was sorry. That being a chiropractor and calling myself a doctor and a physician was wrong. MD's (and DO's) have to earn that title, beyond what most people will ever understand. So, as a medical physician, it is hard to hear other people assurt they are a "doctor" and "physician", which leads one to assume they have obtained the same education and training, which simply isn't true.

I think this is why MD/DOs use their specialty to identify themselves more nowadays.

As far as DPMs, yeah yeah "we get more training in foot and ankle than an ortho".. they are right! However, how much training do you get in spine, upper extremity, knee, hip, so forth and so on? NONE. Now.. take an ortho that subs in foot and ankle, you can't make that argument, can you?

I used to say the same crap in chiro.. we get more in MSK and spine than MDs... It is true too. I don't know of a single primary care physician that knows about MSK and spine that I do.. but I don't know anything else. They know so much more about EVERYTHING else that I feel silly now for ever saying that.

Lastly.. I wanted to address something I read in an earlier post. Please don't assume that because someone doesn't attend a top medical school, or a US medical school, etc., that they aren't smart or can't handle it. Yes.. a lot of people who attend these places did score less on tests or had lower GPAs, but that just means they messed up along the way. I didn't decide to go to medical school until I had been out of college for over 10 years. I bombed the MCAT. However, I did my first two years of medical school while running a business, raising a family, and working on my MBA....and I just got a 246/98 on my step one. So.. maybe it is the minority, but MCAT doesn't equal medical school or step one success.

 

[facetguy]

Ahhh.. its been a long time since I posted on here.. but I will talk a little about the chiropractic "physician".

I am/was a chiropractor for 7 years before going back to medical school. Back in the day I proudly went around calling myself doctor.. and stating I was a physician. SO..

1. These two terms come from the fact that a chiropractor does recieve a doctorate level degree. Therefore, they can use the title doctor, but it is mis-leading.

2. Medicare (HHS) listed chiropractors as primary portal of entry physicians 10-12 years ago. This was a milestone for chiro because it reconized them federally as physicians, and now allowed them to qualify for physician reimbursment under Medicare, and other insurance programs.

However, now that I have finished my 2nd year of medical school, I will tell you that I have called all my MD friends and told them I was sorry. That being a chiropractor and calling myself a doctor and a physician was wrong.

Reminder: you are already in med school...you can stop kissing a** now.

MD's (and DO's) have to earn that title, beyond what most people will ever understand. So, as a medical physician, it is hard to hear other people assurt they are a "doctor" and "physician", which leads one to assume they have obtained the same education and training, which simply isn't true.

I think this is why MD/DOs use their specialty to identify themselves more nowadays.

As far as DPMs, yeah yeah "we get more training in foot and ankle than an ortho".. they are right! However, how much training do you get in spine, upper extremity, knee, hip, so forth and so on? NONE. Now.. take an ortho that subs in foot and ankle, you can't make that argument, can you?

I used to say the same crap in chiro.. we get more in MSK and spine than MDs... It is true too. I don't know of a single primary care physician that knows about MSK and spine that I do.. but I don't know anything else. They know so much more about EVERYTHING else that I feel silly now for ever saying that.

Do chiropractors ever say that they have the same broad knowledge base as a family physician or internist? The answer of course is no. If you used to do that back in your D.C. days, that's on you. Please don't project your past foibles on the rest of the chiropractic profession.

Lastly.. I wanted to address something I read in an earlier post. Please don't assume that because someone doesn't attend a top medical school, or a US medical school, etc., that they aren't smart or can't handle it. Yes.. a lot of people who attend these places did score less on tests or had lower GPAs, but that just means they messed up along the way. I didn't decide to go to medical school until I had been out of college for over 10 years. I bombed the MCAT. However, I did my first two years of medical school while running a business, raising a family, and working on my MBA....and I just got a 246/98 on my step one. So.. maybe it is the minority, but MCAT doesn't equal medical school or step one success.

Uh oh...is someone a little touchy about his current schooling? First it was the burden of the D.C. degree, and now what? Perhaps a bit of insecurity regarding the permanence of being strapped to a degree from a school that even you aren't proud of? I wish you well, and I hope you someday find the peace within yourself that is lacking today.

 

[group_theory]

Interesting discussion but a gentle reminder that this is a professional forum and not the school yard of an elementary school ... please refrain from insulting each others. I hope you can make your arguments and counter-arguments without resorting to name calling.

 

[Concubine]

I attend a school where both programs are present (DO and DPM) and the ONLY classes we share are the first year classes.....second year and beyond is completely different.

Sharing classes with Chiro students? That would drive me nuts.

 

[Cp22kjer]

ND, DNP, and PA are all wanting to expand their scope of practice with half the amount of education. This is the reason the AMA needs to fight to put a stop to this.

Yep, so true. Physicians really need to become more proactive......no telling where they'll be 20 years from now. This is probably the biggest issue future doctors will face.

It's been disheartening to say the least.

 

[Cp22kjer]

Reminder: Do chiropractors ever say that they have the same broad knowledge base as a family physician or internist? The answer of course is no. If you used to do that back in your D.C. days, that's on you. Please don't project your past foibles on the rest of the chiropractic profession.

I'm pretty sure he was drawing on that to show how DCs can't compare to a medical education and thus should not be labeled physicians. I really don't care what they are called as they do serve a purpose in the healthcare field like it or not.

Worrying about chiros calling themselves physicians should be the least of a physicians problems anyways..........the DNP battle is 10000x more important.

 

[87138]

the DNP battle is 10000x more important.

The issue with this issue was nicely illustrated (to me at least) when I brought the subject up tangentially with a few classmates and our preceptor (physician) in a small group. We were just talking about various issues in healthcare that affect physicians (reimbursement, malpractice, etc) and midlevels came up. I brought up the idea of the DNP in a non-inflammatory manner (although I certainly had some strong opinions) just to test the waters out, and I seemed to be the only one who didn't think "oh wow, that's great, more healthcare for all, puppy dogs and rainbows, hip hip hooray." I'm exaggerating, and I really didn't expect to get much of a different response from a bunch of starry-eyed first years, but even the preceptor didn't have much of a stance . . . I don't believe he actually knew much about the DNP program or what it was.

It's very taboo, at least in your early years of medical education, to discuss "selfish" things like money, job security, or standing one's ground when it comes to other fields encroaching upon medicine.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Jaggs, sorry I'm late on this one!! D.C. title varies by state. I see no issue with 'chiropractic physician', and in fact the 'chiropractic' part must be present or it's inappropriate. Take a deep breath everyone; the public will not confuse D.C.s with M.D.s and D.O.s.🙂

Actually, they might. Especially since some chiropractors are advertising themselves as people who can serve all your primary care needs. We should be concerned about this.

 

[PMRMD2B]

Reminder: you are already in med school...you can stop kissing a** now.

I was just being honest.. I don't have too kiss up.


Do chiropractors ever say that they have the same broad knowledge base as a family physician or internist? The answer of course is no. If you used to do that back in your D.C. days, that's on you. Please don't project your past foibles on the rest of the chiropractic profession.

Chiro school tells students, and the public, that DCs have the same education, that you are a doctor, blah blah. It just isn't even close to being the same education.



Uh oh...is someone a little touchy about his current schooling? First it was the burden of the D.C. degree, and now what? Perhaps a bit of insecurity regarding the permanence of being strapped to a degree from a school that even you aren't proud of? I wish you well, and I hope you someday find the peace within yourself that is lacking today.

Well.. I was actually taking up for people like yourself who went to chiro school. Most would believe you did because you couldn't get into medical school. You know the old joke... what do you cause someone who couldn't get into medical school? A chiropractor.

I was trying to show that not all in chiropractic school, DO school, Podiatry, etc.. went into it because they were dumb. It is interesting how personally you take my words.. and you can only come back with insults to me as a person. However, this is typical of most chiropractors who feel as if they are lacking. These people are the ones who take their ball and leave the playground if they don't get their way.

As far as me being touchy about my current schooling, I beg to differ. I am very happy with my school (located in Ga.). I am also very happy with the profession I have chosen. I am not anti-chiropractic. I still own my practice in fact. I just don't agree with the shady business practices many chiros have and with chiros thinking they are equal with MDs.

I don't know why you try to make this personal, it isn't. I am sure you are a good chiropractor and what you do is very good. You help people everyday, there is no other cause that is more noble.

I wish you luck and I hope you continue to help people.

 

[facetguy]

Well.. I was actually taking up for people like yourself who went to chiro school. Most would believe you did because you couldn't get into medical school. You know the old joke... what do you cause someone who couldn't get into medical school? A chiropractor.

I was trying to show that not all in chiropractic school, DO school, Podiatry, etc.. went into it because they were dumb. It is interesting how personally you take my words.. and you can only come back with insults to me as a person. However, this is typical of most chiropractors who feel as if they are lacking. These people are the ones who take their ball and leave the playground if they don't get their way.

As far as me being touchy about my current schooling, I beg to differ. I am very happy with my school (located in Ga.). I am also very happy with the profession I have chosen. I am not anti-chiropractic. I still own my practice in fact. I just don't agree with the shady business practices many chiros have and with chiros thinking they are equal with MDs.

I don't know why you try to make this personal, it isn't. I am sure you are a good chiropractor and what you do is very good. You help people everyday, there is no other cause that is more noble.

I wish you luck and I hope you continue to help people.

I did perceive your comments as an attack on my chosen profession and reacted accordingly. My comments, while they could seem like personal insults toward you as an individual, are aimed more broadly.

As to your schooling, you seemed to be making excuses and justifying when that is not necessary. You shouldn't feel as though you need to do that, nor should you feel as though you need to 'call all your MD friends' to apologize for having been a chiropractor in a previous life. To me, that comes off as a little weird.

And as to chiros trying to pass themselves off as equal inknowledge base to medical PCPs (also echoed by Doctor Bagel below), where is this happening? Where are DCs doing these things, because they aren't doing them in my area.

I am pursuing medicine because I want to expand my ability to help my patients, not because I am running away from chiropractic. You sounded, from your comments, as though you were abandoning chiropractic because you were lacking, bitter, etc. From your response comments, I see that is not the case. I, too, am disgusted by the shadiness of SOME chiros, not ALL chiros as we often read in these threads. As for equal to MDs, I can only say that I have had the opportunity to work toward the benefit of many patients over the years, and quite frankly they could care less who is helping them, as long as they are being treated effectively and with respect. I routinely refer to MDs and they refer to me. I've never thought of it as keeping score on some equality scale.

(As an aside, you mentioned maintaining your chiro practice. Did you find yourself able to continue working there during med school? I may be facing a similar situation.)

 

[87138]

You shouldn't feel as though you need to do that, nor should you feel as though you need to 'call all your MD friends' to apologize for having been a chiropractor in a previous life.

And as to chiros trying to pass themselves off as equal inknowledge base to medical PCPs (also echoed by Doctor Bagel below), where is this happening? Where are DCs doing these things, because they aren't doing them in my area.

Oh come on. Clearly he was saying (and likely exaggerating) that he was calling all his MD friends to apologize for claiming - whether explicitly or implicitly - to be something he was not previously.

As to your second point, it is certainly not unheard of, at least in my area.

 

[Noeljan]

I will never forget the time I met up at a pregame one night before going out with friends (this was while I was still a premed) and there was this chriro there. He went on and on and on about how he knows more than physicians, how he learns more than physicians, how he is basically is a physician. I wasn't saying anything but listening and smiling. What a complex. However, I have since met a chiro who is very "I am not a physician and hate when my fellow chiros try to be something they are not", he really stresses his expertise in the back and neck etc, but refuses to try and be a primary care physician that he sees some of his peers try to do. He said it clear, if they wanted to be a physician they should go to medical school.

 

[devilpup]

Reminder: you are already in med school...you can stop kissing a** now.



Do chiropractors ever say that they have the same broad knowledge base as a family physician or internist? The answer of course is no.

not that would be *****ic. However, I found this interesting article assessing if they see regard themselves as PCP's: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14569217

the study has many limitation, but interesting nonetheless.

 

[J1515]

foot and ankle surgeries in pod residency >> foot and ankle surgeries in ortho foot and ankle fellowship.

Its just shear numbers pal...the more surgeries you do the better your skill.

Whatever helps you sleep at night buddy.

 

[hooperg]

The only time I have ever considered it acceptable to criticize another based on their occupational status is when they attempt to portray themselves as something they are not.

That said, DPMs ARE surgeons if they choose to be. They're not vascular surgeons, transplant surgeons, or neurosurgeons by any definition; however, they still cut, snap, and hammer on the human body--just a select region. Chiropractors ARE manual medicine practitioners. Naturopaths appeal to people of alternative medical views. The problem comes when they lobby for unnatural medical rights beyond their training/ability or if they outright practice out of scope.

If, in some alternate universe, chiropractors undertook a rigorous, certified pharmacological education for their focused field (in addition to manipulation and anatomy), I'd have no problem seeing them write for muscle relaxants, etc...

Remember, Osteopaths, we are still considered by some as the bastard second cousin of Hippocrates. Know that being regarded as inferior is an unpleasant feeling. Just keep the bar high, be good at what you do, and they'll come around. (Same message to DCs, DNPs, etc...)

 

[Chuck's Right Foot]

Chiropractors, also known as doctors of chiropractic or chiropractic physicians, diagnose and treat patients with health problems of the musculoskeletal system and treat the effects of those problems on the nervous system and on general health. Many chiropractic treatments deal specifically with the spine and the manipulation of the spine. Chiropractic medicine is based on the principle that spinal joint misalignments interfere with the nervous system and can result in lower resistance to disease and many different conditions of diminished health.

AKA Woo.

 

[schrute]

Here's simple logic.

You "shared countless" classes with DPM therefore DPM education is < yours???? flawed ain't it.

Well, that's not exactly simple logic...logic for a simpleton, maybe. But then again, you haven't exactly undergone any actual medical training (er, podiatric training), so maybe it's just your inability to comprehend the unknown that contributes to your asinine logic...which begs the question, "why on earth are you arguing about something of which you know absolutely nothing?"
But I digress...continue on your quest, young future Doctor of the Foot.