Choose a “general” specialty to hedge against single payer system. In Canada, 20% of specialists can’t find a job

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wamcp

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Good thing the US isn't canada lol and single payer isn't gonna happen here anytime soon or in our lifetimes most likely.

Notice how the one democratic candidate who doesn't want anything to do with single payer suddenly has all but run away with the nomination within one week.
 
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Good thing the US isn't canada lol and single payer isn't gonna happen here anytime soon or in our lifetimes most likely.

Notice how the one democratic candidate who doesn't want anything to do with single payer suddenly has all but run away with the nomination within one week.
Which one?
 
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Good thing the US isn't canada lol and single payer isn't gonna happen here anytime soon or in our lifetimes most likely.

Notice how the one democratic candidate who doesn't want anything to do with single payer suddenly has all but run away with the nomination within one week.
Usually when someone first enters the race, polling is high. I highly doubt an establishment candidate will win the nomination, just look what happened in 2016
 
You’re talking about Joe Biden. Networks posting polls have been misrepresenting his results.

Single payer will happen. The people want and need it. Those in power who deride it are also those who stand to benefit from money coming out of industries like health insurance and others such as fossil fuels that place the health and wellbeing of people, domestic and abroad, in precarious positions.
 
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Interesting, but bear in mind that Canada spends 11.3% of its GDP on healthcare, while the US spends 17.9%. I'm willing to bet that our friends up north could employ their specialists quite rapidly if they decided to increase spending by 58%.

Canada's national debt is about 90% of GDP, while ours is 105%, so they have plenty of room to catch up with us.
 
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You’re talking about Joe Biden. Networks posting polls have been misrepresenting his results.

Single payer will happen. The people want and need it. Those in power who deride it are also those who stand to benefit from money coming out of industries like health insurance and others such as fossil fuels that place the health and wellbeing of people, domestic and abroad, in precarious positions.

260966
 
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Yeah it’s going to happen. It has to. This is unsustainable and has been for many years.

And I can’t wait for it. I haven’t voted for any candidate that doesn’t support a single payer system in years.
 
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Yeah it’s going to happen. It has to. This is unsustainable and has been for many years.

And I can’t wait for it. I haven’t voted for any candidate that doesn’t support a single payer system in years.

Then you're a complete *****. Even worse, you're a resident spouting this nonsense.
 
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Then you're a complete *****. Even worse, you're a resident spouting this nonsense.
Single payer is a good thing. I'd rather seen more money spent on our own citizens. Honestly love them or hate them, The Young Turks on Youtube make a good case for it.
 
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OK, please correct me if I am wrong, but my friend in Canada talks about her parents and grandparents getting great care that all starts with their GP/FM/IM. Aren't primary care specialist jobs still available?
 
You’re talking about Joe Biden. Networks posting polls have been misrepresenting his results.

Single payer will happen. The people want and need it. Those in power who deride it are also those who stand to benefit from money coming out of industries like health insurance and others such as fossil fuels that place the health and wellbeing of people, domestic and abroad, in precarious positions.

Yeah it’s going to happen. It has to. This is unsustainable and has been for many years.

And I can’t wait for it. I haven’t voted for any candidate that doesn’t support a single payer system in years.
If it did happen, say hello to a 170k salary with higher taxes on top of that. You can be like European doctors who get ripped off but much worse since you paid like 300k to become a doctor and they paid 0$. 170k sounds fine? Say that when your boss the administrator also makes 170k for working 32 hours (while you work 60) and the NP/PA make 130k. BTW, every public healthcare model in USA and those suggested involve EVEN MORE use of midlevels. You'll be supervising midlevels for life while making a tiny bit more and absorbing 100% of the liability + doing quadruple the paperwork you do now.

The Canadian single payer system pays doctors extremely well. That wouldn't happen in USA (source: bernie's spokesperson who said doctors income WILL be cut). Their model also doesn't have many silly features the US has. It works there, it would never ever work here.

BTW, just cause you don't like the polling results does not mean they're false. Biden is polling at 38% and climbing. Bernie is polling at 11%. And Bernie has no shot in half the country in the primaries.
Also, Biden is the ONLY candidate who could easily beat Trump. Bernie will be in a socialism vs capitalism general election vs Trump and may very well lose.
 
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Single payer probably won't happen for some time. If it does, it should also address med school debt and either eliminate Caribbean med school loan availability or severely limit the talent we have as physicians. Screw free UG, start with doctors in order to keep them working. Unfortunately, be prepared for more NPs.
Luckily, enough people still think Bernie is an inefficient tool. Even others who believe in an eventual Medicare 4 All, like Harris, want it phased in.
You’re talking about Joe Biden. Networks posting polls have been misrepresenting his results.

Single payer will happen. The people want and need it. Those in power who deride it are also those who stand to benefit from money coming out of industries like health insurance and others such as fossil fuels that place the health and wellbeing of people, domestic and abroad, in precarious positions.
 
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OK, please correct me if I am wrong, but my friend in Canada talks about her parents and grandparents getting great care that all starts with their GP/FM/IM. Aren't primary care specialist jobs still available?

unpopular opinion but primary care with the "great care" they provide (ie refer out) can't do much for you if you have an anatomic problem and need your hip fixed but there's a 2 year wait-list for total hips because there aren't that many orthopods with operating privileges and it's not an emergent procedure.


Primary care jobs are likely still relatively easy to obtain in Canada but I believe it's very difficult for specialists to find full time employment. Example below (also I'm not sure if the national post is a reliable publication or clickbait equivalent so read at own risk).

For example: Untrained and unemployed: Medical schools churning out doctors who can’t find residencies and full-time positions


Some more examples:

 
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I am not talking about US health care, but Canadian. I grew up on Medicaid, so I typically scoff at most of the comments here about primary care in the US. My grandfather is dying in prison because he can't get decent cancer treatment, and my grandmother and mother suffered for years because they were poor. Nobody knows that better than me. I actually had to get married to get better healthcare for my high risk pregnancy. But my Canadian friends have never had to wait for serious issues, compared to my poor relatives.

unpopular opinion but primary care with the "great care" they provide (ie refer out) can't do much for you if you have an anatomic problem and need your hip fixed but there's a 2 year wait-list for total hips because there aren't that many orthopods with operating privileges and it's not an emergent procedure.
 
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People just don't like change. The truth is our health care system is bloated and inefficent.
 
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unpopular opinion but primary care with the "great care" they provide (ie refer out) can't do much for you if you have an anatomic problem and need your hip fixed but there's a 2 year wait-list for total hips because there aren't that many orthopods with operating privileges and it's not an emergent procedure.


Primary care jobs are likely still relatively easy to obtain in Canada but I believe it's very difficult for specialists to find full time employment. Example below (also I'm not sure if the national post is a reliable publication or clickbait equivalent so read at own risk).

For example: Untrained and unemployed: Medical schools churning out doctors who can’t find residencies and full-time positions
The National Post has a conservative spin. Doesn't mean it's bad BUT those reading keep that in mind
 
I am not talking about US health care, but Canadian. I grew up on Medicaid, so I typically scoff at most of the comments here about primary care in the US. My grandfather is dying in prison because he can't get decent cancer treatment, and my grandmother and mother suffered for years because they were poor. Nobody knows that better than me. I actually had to get married to get better healthcare for my high risk pregnancy. But my Canadian friends have never had to wait for serious issues, compared to my poor relatives.

I have no idea how to answer your question (what is it again?) without anectodes, I really doubt there's a study comparing access to care/outcomes for serious conditions in equivalent populations in US and Canada.
 
Single payer probably won't happen for some time. If it does, it should also address med school debt and either eliminate Caribbean med school loan availability or severely limit the talent we have as physicians. Screw free UG, start with doctors in order to keep them working. Unfortunately, be prepared for more NPs.
Luckily, enough people still think Bernie is an inefficient tool. Even others who believe in an eventual Medicare 4 All, like Harris, want it phased in.
Lol single payer in USA would be entirely midlevel run with doctors running around supervising. Check out the VA, NPs do colonoscopies for god sakes. Now put that concept on steroids, and apply it nationwide. And doctors would take around 20-30% paycuts on top of that, at least if you believe Bernie's spokesperson who was trying to minimize those numbers obviously.

Even Obama understood single payer was not practical in USA, he mentioned it in 2016 in an interview. You can't just wipe out everyone who works in the current system and put in a new system in 2019. This isn't the 1940s like in Canada.
 
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single payer in the US will be the death of physicians. NPs are "acceptable". The only physicians who will stick around are the ones who still need to pay off their loans.
 
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If it did happen, say hello to a 170k salary with higher taxes on top of that. You can be like European doctors who get ripped off but much worse since you paid like 300k to become a doctor and they paid 0$. 170k sounds fine? Say that when your boss the administrator also makes 170k for working 32 hours (while you work 60) and the NP/PA make 130k. BTW, every public healthcare model in USA and those suggested involve EVEN MORE use of midlevels. You'll be supervising midlevels for life while making a tiny bit more and absorbing 100% of the liability + doing quadruple the paperwork you do now.

The Canadian single payer system pays doctors extremely well. That wouldn't happen in USA (source: bernie's spokesperson who said doctors income WILL be cut). Their model also doesn't have many silly features the US has. It works there, it would never ever work here.

BTW, just cause you don't like the polling results does not mean they're false. Biden is polling at 38% and climbing. Bernie is polling at 11%. And Bernie has no shot in half the country in the primaries.
Also, Biden is the ONLY candidate who could easily beat Trump. Bernie will be in a socialism vs capitalism general election vs Trump and may very well lose.
Yup. Salaries will drop. I’m still 100% in favor of it.

The salaries will drop regardless anyway.
 
If it did happen, say hello to a 170k salary with higher taxes on top of that. You can be like European doctors who get ripped off but much worse since you paid like 300k to become a doctor and they paid 0$. 170k sounds fine? Say that when your boss the administrator also makes 170k for working 32 hours (while you work 60) and the NP/PA make 130k. BTW, every public healthcare model in USA and those suggested involve EVEN MORE use of midlevels. You'll be supervising midlevels for life while making a tiny bit more and absorbing 100% of the liability + doing quadruple the paperwork you do now.

The Canadian single payer system pays doctors extremely well. That wouldn't happen in USA (source: bernie's spokesperson who said doctors income WILL be cut). Their model also doesn't have many silly features the US has. It works there, it would never ever work here.

BTW, just cause you don't like the polling results does not mean they're false. Biden is polling at 38% and climbing. Bernie is polling at 11%. And Bernie has no shot in half the country in the primaries.
Also, Biden is the ONLY candidate who could easily beat Trump. Bernie will be in a socialism vs capitalism general election vs Trump and may very well lose.
Physician salaries will go down but I couldn’t sleep at night if I thought the income of professionals making up less than a percent of the US population should be prioritized over millions of people getting access to care.

We spend more on the military, destabilizing the lives of people in the global south, than the next several countries combined. We can afford to provide medical care to our people.
 
Physician salaries will go down but I couldn’t sleep at night if I thought the income of professionals making up less than a percent of the US population should be prioritized over millions of people getting access to care.

We spend more on the military, destabilizing the lives of people in the global south, than the next several countries combined. We can afford to provide medical care to our people.
How very noble of you. So will our tuition hikes be fixed also or are you good with essentially indentured servitude because you'll never be able to pay back student loans on 170k (before insane taxes that will need to be put in place to fund this massive system)? So realistically like 100k if that.

The system needs fixing, but a straight single payer ain't it. The issue is the administrative bloat, which will only get worse with a single payer system. Not to mention pharma charging out the wazoo for literally everything because "R&D".

Its idealistic and Utopian, but flawed in logic.
 
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How very noble of you. So will our tuition hikes be fixed also or are you good with essentially indentured servitude because you'll never be able to pay back student loans on 170k (before insane taxes that will need to be put in place to fund this massive system)? So realistically like 100k if that.

The system needs fixing, but a straight single payer ain't it. The issue is the administrative bloat, which will only get worse with a single payer system. Not to mention pharma charging out the wazoo for literally everything because "R&D".

Its idealistic and Utopian, but flawed in logic.
How did you come to that $170k figure?

And directing sarcasm at the idea of those priorities? What’s the matter with you?
 
Of course I want physician debt addressed, it’s a travesty. But I want more people to have healthcare a lot more than I want my debt abolished. Besides, millions of people are already in that position of “indentured servitude” outside Medicine @Chibucks15
 
How did you come to that $170k figure?

And directing sarcasm at the idea of those priorities? What’s the matter with you?
Somebody threw that number out and you answered saying you'd be fine with giving up salary. Oh chill out we all want to fix the system and provide better care, that just isn't the way to do it. Get off your high horse with the specific wording I chose
 
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Somebody threw that number out and you answered saying you'd be fine with giving up salary. Oh chill out we all want to fix the system and provide better care, that just isn't the way to do it. Get off your high horse with the specific wording I chose
Wanting universal healthcare in the last western country without it = being on a high horse. Got it, makes sense.
 
Wanting universal healthcare in the last western country without it = being on a high horse. Got it, makes sense.
No, the "millions around the world are already in indentured servitude why would you dare compare them to doctors" = high horse.

I'm all for better care and greater access. Obamacare was a step in the right direction but needs be altered (not abolished though) but if you don't fix the underlying issues at hand, you will run even shorter on the number of doctors (because people can't afford to become one). If people no longer see the value in becoming a doctor because the respect is eroding in the population, the salary won't make up for decades of lost life in school only to be in debt up to your eyeballs when you get out, and having little to no actual chance at the freedom of practice that physicians have today because they're all just cogs in the medicaid wheel. Not to mention the population will have to deal with enormous tax burdens to fund this, while pharma, whoever gets a cut of the tuition pie, and insurers get to run away with unchecked profits.

Also, medicaid works because its a self contained and self funding system. There is no data saying scaling up the program will be feasible, much less easy to accomplish. Also, working around medicaid and insurer rules adds hours to a physicians day doing paperwork, further lessening the appeal of the job. Here come the NPs! I hate the 'midlevels are coming' crap as much as anyone but that will happen if nobody wants to become a doctor.

If you can find a way to prevent all these things, in addition to lessening med school tuition and not cutting pay to a point where the cost-benefit analysis of medical school doesn't skew towards it being an even worse financial decision, then I'm on board. Until then, its utopian and reckless to institute a plan on such a large scale without considering these (and more) ripple effects that the rest of the economy will have to take on. The government can't even fix roads I'm gonna go ahead and try to not have them run healthcare completely. They mess up 90% of what they touch

On that note, I'm out. Best of luck
 
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If it did happen, say hello to a 170k salary with higher taxes on top of that. You can be like European doctors who get ripped off but much worse since you paid like 300k to become a doctor and they paid 0$. 170k sounds fine? Say that when your boss the administrator also makes 170k for working 32 hours (while you work 60) and the NP/PA make 130k. BTW, every public healthcare model in USA and those suggested involve EVEN MORE use of midlevels. You'll be supervising midlevels for life while making a tiny bit more and absorbing 100% of the liability + doing quadruple the paperwork you do now.

The Canadian single payer system pays doctors extremely well. That wouldn't happen in USA (source: bernie's spokesperson who said doctors income WILL be cut). Their model also doesn't have many silly features the US has. It works there, it would never ever work here.

BTW, just cause you don't like the polling results does not mean they're false. Biden is polling at 38% and climbing. Bernie is polling at 11%. And Bernie has no shot in half the country in the primaries.
Also, Biden is the ONLY candidate who could easily beat Trump. Bernie will be in a socialism vs capitalism general election vs Trump and may very well lose.

You are wrong, salary will be LESS than 170k. It’s going to suck for doctors even MORE than you think.

Here is a real life example of what happens under a welfare state and it’s not even single payer system:

Germany. Multipayer system with compulsory insurance and private insurance. 74% of healthcare spending is government funded, 26% private.

Now look at how their hospitals will pay you:


You can be an attending for THIRTEEN years out and your pay only gets to 120K USD. Their overall taxes will remove over 40% of that too. Your take home pay becomes 70k!! Absolutely horrendous direction to head towards.

Did you know they’re on strike right now for 5% pay increase? Lol
And they work insane hours for the low pay:

“According to a recent survey by the doctors’ union, 40 percent of doctors in German municipal clinics work 49 to 59 hours a week. One in five doctors had even higher weekly averages of 60 to 80 working hours, including all services and overtime.”

 
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Single payer probably won't happen for some time. If it does, it should also address med school debt and either eliminate Caribbean med school loan availability or severely limit the talent we have as physicians. Screw free UG, start with doctors in order to keep them working. Unfortunately, be prepared for more NPs.
Luckily, enough people still think Bernie is an inefficient tool. Even others who believe in an eventual Medicare 4 All, like Harris, want it phased in.

Will laws change under single payer to reduce med school tuition? Maybe.

But guess what. No one is going to care about YOU becuase you already graduated by then. There will be no public sympathy because you would have been making “too much”.

“Senator Warren proposed this week to erase a substantial portion of more than $1.5 trillion in student debt held by Americans. Her plan would cancel up to $50,000 of student debt for every person with household income under $100,000. The loan forgiveness amount phases out as income rises. No one who earns more than $250,000 would qualify, though the forgiveness would extend to plenty of upper middle-class earners who have the means to repay.”

 
You can not compare the US and Canada in terms of healthcare.

Canada has fewer people in it than there are in a single STATE in the US.

The US also SUBSIDIZES Canadian pharmaceuticals (making it cheaper for Canadians and more expensive for US patients). Both of the above can be gleaned in a 10 second google search, but nobody mentions them.

I’m not arguing one way or another, but the gross oversimplification of “Canadian system=better!” stems from emotion and ignorance. You can not compare apples to apples, because the US is a different fruit entirely.

All that said, I do believe single payer will become so politically popular that it will be adopted eventually. The smartest thing we could do is to tool the legislation in such a way as to not crash the industry and disrupt our cutting-edge advances.

That’s just a Nurse’s opinion, tho. ;)
 
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I agree making a single payer government run healthcare system will decrease bloat and increase efficiency
Why? The government= the most beurocracy anywhere. If anything there would be more bloat
 
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Yup. Salaries will drop. I’m still 100% in favor of it.

The salaries will drop regardless anyway.
Go staff a free clinic (I would personally) and donate to charity. Don't try to take down everyone with you. And no, salaries are going UP... not down. There was crying about salaries going down 10 years ago, and 5, and 3. And every year it keeps climbing.
This isn't a country where the talented get held down by society.
Physician salaries will go down but I couldn’t sleep at night if I thought the income of professionals making up less than a percent of the US population should be prioritized over millions of people getting access to care.

We spend more on the military, destabilizing the lives of people in the global south, than the next several countries combined. We can afford to provide medical care to our people.
How about you drive down the actual costs of care first? And change all the excessive testing done? We have astronomical costs that can be saved and instead used to fund care for more better.
And I'm assuming you haven't ever had a chat with those behind the scenes on this stuff. Their dream is to have 1 doctor supervising like 8 NPs and paying you like 20k more than them. That is your single payer :)



Single payer will not happen any time soon. Joe Biden is your next nominee and next president. Bernie's down at 11% in all the polls, Biden is almost at 40% in several polls, including one with 15,000 participants. And almost all of congress is still on the sanity boat. Jokes like AOC are 1 of "there like's 3 of them" (quoting Nancy Pelosi) who can yell all they want but it won't change a thing.
 
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You are wrong, salary will be LESS than 170k. It’s going to suck for doctors even MORE than you think.

Here is a real life example of what happens under a welfare state and it’s not even single payer system:

Germany. Multipayer system with compulsory insurance and private insurance. 74% of healthcare spending is government funded, 26% private.

Now look at how their hospitals will pay you:


You can be an attending for THIRTEEN years out and your pay only gets to 120K USD. Their overall taxes will remove over 40% of that too. Your take home pay becomes 70k!! Absolutely horrendous direction to head towards.

Did you know they’re on strike right now for 5% pay increase? Lol
And they work insane hours for the low pay:

“According to a recent survey by the doctors’ union, 40 percent of doctors in German municipal clinics work 49 to 59 hours a week. One in five doctors had even higher weekly averages of 60 to 80 working hours, including all services and overtime.”


Not to mention the UK doctors who striked.

This is what happens when we have a whole generation of brainwashed people. And I get these guys want to embrace their marxist heroes but why try and take down everyone else with them?
This primary election is once again so important. In 2016, Hillary beating Bernie was the most important part, the general election didn't even matter. Once again, Biden crushing Bernie will end this nonsense.
 
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Go staff a free clinic (I would personally) and donate to charity. Don't try to take down everyone with you. And no, salaries are going UP... not down. There was crying about salaries going down 10 years ago, and 5, and 3. And every year it keeps climbing.
This isn't a country where the talented get held down by society.

How about you drive down the actual costs of care first? And change all the excessive testing done? We have astronomical costs that can be saved and instead used to fund care for more better.
And I'm assuming you haven't ever had a chat with those behind the scenes on this stuff. Their dream is to have 1 doctor supervising like 8 NPs and paying you like 20k more than them. That is your single payer :)



Single payer will not happen any time soon. Joe Biden is your next nominee and next president. Bernie's down at 11% in all the polls, Biden is almost at 40% in several polls, including one with 15,000 participants. And almost all of congress is still on the sanity boat. Jokes like AOC are 1 of "there like's 3 of them" (quoting Nancy Pelosi) who can yell all they want but it won't change a thing.
If you did some research, that poll you're looking at excluded the responses of voters under 30 for whatever reason. That's is no where near an accurate representation of reality. I will say Biden is climbing, but to say that's it is nonsense. Tell me what happened in 2016 again
 
If you did some research, that poll you're looking at excluded the responses of voters under 30 for whatever reason. That's is no where near an accurate representation of reality. I will say Biden is climbing, but to say that's it is nonsense. Tell me what happened in 2016 again
Well if we look at the polls conducted 1 year before the primaries (which is where we are now), they actually match up astoundingly close to what the results ended up being:
Nationwide opinion polling for the 2016 Democratic Party presidential primaries - Wikipedia

Ipsos/Reuters[132]8252.5%December 26–30, 201557%3%32%Wouldn't Vote 8%
Ipsos/Reuters[133]6034.6%December 19–23, 201558%4%31%Wouldn't Vote 7%
Rasmussen Reports[134]5464.5%December 20–21, 201546%9%30%Other 9%
Undecided 7%
YouGov/Economist[135]5653.1%December 18–21, 201553%2%39%Other 1%
Undecided 4%
CNN/ORC[136]4145%December 17–21, 201550%3%34%Someone else 7%
None 4%
No opinion 1%
Emerson College Polling Society[137]3325.3%December 17–20, 201565%2%26%Other 3%
Undecided 4%
Qunnipiac University[138]4622.6%December 16–20, 201561%2%30%Wouldn't Vote 1%
Undecided 6%
Fox News[139]3903.0%December 16–17, 201556%2%34%None of the Above 2%
Other 1%
Undecided 4%
Public Policy Polling[140]5254.3%December 16–17, 201556%9%28%Undecided 7%
Ipos/Reuters[141]7604.0%December 12–16, 201558%3%29%Wouldn't Vote 10%
Morning Consult[142]17902.0%December 11–15, 201552%2%27%Other 6%
Undecided 12%
Monmouth University[143]3745.1%December 10–13, 201559%4%26%Other 1%
Undecided 8%
No One 3%
ABC/Washington Post[144]3773.5%December 1–13, 201559%5%28%None 2%
Not Voting 2%
Other 1%
Undecided 4%
NBC News/Wall Street Journal[145]8493.36%December 6–9, 201556%4%37%None 2%

So mostly 50+ compared to 30-ish percent

Final results:

Hillary ClintonBernie Sanders
Home stateNew YorkVermont
Delegate count2,8421,865
Contests won3423
Popular vote16,914,722[a][1]13,206,428[a][1]
Percentage55.2%[a]43.1%[a]


So support for Hillary remained constant and Bernie picked up the undecideds.
 
Well if we look at the polls conducted 1 year before the primaries (which is where we are now), they actually match up astoundingly close to what the results ended up being:
Nationwide opinion polling for the 2016 Democratic Party presidential primaries - Wikipedia

Ipsos/Reuters[132]8252.5%December 26–30, 201557%3%32%Wouldn't Vote 8%
Ipsos/Reuters[133]6034.6%December 19–23, 201558%4%31%Wouldn't Vote 7%
Rasmussen Reports[134]5464.5%December 20–21, 201546%9%30%Other 9%
Undecided 7%
YouGov/Economist[135]5653.1%December 18–21, 201553%2%39%Other 1%
Undecided 4%
CNN/ORC[136]4145%December 17–21, 201550%3%34%Someone else 7%
None 4%
No opinion 1%
Emerson College Polling Society[137]3325.3%December 17–20, 201565%2%26%Other 3%
Undecided 4%
Qunnipiac University[138]4622.6%December 16–20, 201561%2%30%Wouldn't Vote 1%
Undecided 6%
Fox News[139]3903.0%December 16–17, 201556%2%34%None of the Above 2%
Other 1%
Undecided 4%
Public Policy Polling[140]5254.3%December 16–17, 201556%9%28%Undecided 7%
Ipos/Reuters[141]7604.0%December 12–16, 201558%3%29%Wouldn't Vote 10%
Morning Consult[142]17902.0%December 11–15, 201552%2%27%Other 6%
Undecided 12%
Monmouth University[143]3745.1%December 10–13, 201559%4%26%Other 1%
Undecided 8%
No One 3%
ABC/Washington Post[144]3773.5%December 1–13, 201559%5%28%None 2%
Not Voting 2%
Other 1%
Undecided 4%
NBC News/Wall Street Journal[145]8493.36%December 6–9, 201556%4%37%None 2%

So mostly 50+ compared to 30-ish percent

Final results:

Hillary ClintonBernie Sanders
Home stateNew YorkVermont
Delegate count2,8421,865
Contests won3423
Popular vote16,914,722[a][1]13,206,428[a][1]
Percentage55.2%[a]43.1%[a]


So support for Hillary remained constant and Bernie picked up the undecideds.
Bernie came from nowhere back then and had NO name recognition. Hillary had the largest name recognition of any population. Not really comparable. I was referring to nominating an establishment candidate when I said that. Let's wait and see I guess
 
Go staff a free clinic (I would personally) and donate to charity. Don't try to take down everyone with you. And no, salaries are going UP... not down. There was crying about salaries going down 10 years ago, and 5, and 3. And every year it keeps climbing.

They are fine now but regardless of system, they will go down because Medicare will slash payments - and much of physician salaries are determined by Medicare (even if you don’t take Medicare - private insurers use Medicare rates as a baseline and will pay some percentage more).

It’s not about taking people down. The healthcare in this country does not serve its people well - the number one cause of bankruptcy in the US is healthcare costs. That is shameful. You can bury your head in the sand all you want - but single payer is coming.

No, not this election or next election. There’s no escaping it. Yes, shockingly, there’s no perfect system and they all have problems. But I’d rather have Canada’s or UK’s problems than ours. Considering how much more we spend per capita than them, there’s no excuse to not have universal coverage.

I’m also selfish - I want to make a lot of money too. But I’ve also had family members in the past declare bankruptcy because of illnesses. Just because you have single payer, it doesn’t necessarily mean that salaries HAVE to go down, but most likely they will anyway. Partly because the way the money is distributed is the ridiculous and makes no sense - where a five minute procedure pays more than two hours of actual thinking. And in the future, payers (government or otherwise) aren’t going to do down that route of procedure heavy reimbursement.
 
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Bernie came from nowhere back then and had NO name recognition. Hillary had the largest name recognition of any population. Not really comparable. I was referring to nominating an establishment candidate when I said that. Let's wait and see I guess
If by nowhere you mean 33% by this equivalent time back then....
 
Quoting data from wrong points in time. Tell me, what about Bernie Sanders gets under your skin?
If by "wrong points in time" you actually mean "the same amount of time between those polls and the 2016 election as now and the 2020 election"
 
If you did some research, that poll you're looking at excluded the responses of voters under 30 for whatever reason. That's is no where near an accurate representation of reality. I will say Biden is climbing, but to say that's it is nonsense. Tell me what happened in 2016 again
Try again.

https://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/HHP_April2019_RV_topline.pdf

https://morningconsult.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Political-Intelligence-4.29.19.pdf

https://poll.qu.edu/images/polling/us/us04302019_upaf67.pdf/

I didn't even look at the CNN poll. There's a mountain of data to show that Bernie is sinking and Biden will crush him. I think you need to go ahead and do some real research than wait for media to tell you the polls :)

Bernie came from nowhere back then and had NO name recognition. Hillary had the largest name recognition of any population. Not really comparable. I was referring to nominating an establishment candidate when I said that. Let's wait and see I guess
And he has tons of name recognition this time and is sinking. The format of the primaries also hurts him more this time too.
Quoting data from wrong points in time. Tell me, what about Bernie Sanders gets under your skin?
I think an old soviet lover telling doctors he will take away a third of their salaries will do just that, get under their skin.
 
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Try again.

https://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/HHP_April2019_RV_topline.pdf

https://morningconsult.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Political-Intelligence-4.29.19.pdf

https://poll.qu.edu/images/polling/us/us04302019_upaf67.pdf/

I didn't even look at the CNN poll. There's a mountain of data to show that Bernie is sinking and Biden will crush him. I think you need to go ahead and do some real research than wait for media to tell you the polls :)


And he has tons of name recognition this time and is sinking. The format of the primaries also hurts him more this time too.

I think an old soviet lover telling doctors he will take away a third of their salaries will do just that, get under their skin.
Fine, we'll wait and see who's right
 
If by "wrong points in time" you actually mean "the same amount of time between those polls and the 2016 election as now and the 2020 election"
Sigh. All I can say is just you wait. It's gonna be sanders or warren. Biden always starts out stronf in polling and desipates, like he did in 2008
 
Sigh. All I can say is just you wait. It's gonna be sanders or warren. Biden always starts out stronf in polling and desipates, like he did in 2008
Bernie dropped like 15 points dude. Black people don't like him, simple as that. They like Biden. And young people won't show up, his most reliable demographic.

Biden has always had solid establishment challengers in the past. Not really this time. Also, Trump CAN absolutely beat Bernie. He cannot really beat Biden.
 
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