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thegreatandmythical227 said:
Sigh. All I can say is just you wait. It's gonna be sanders or warren. Biden always starts out stronf in polling and desipates, like he did in 2008
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No it won't. Maybe Warren, but no way Bernie gets the nomination. You can quote me on that this time next year.
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MedicineZ0Z said:
Bernie dropped like 15 points dude. Black people don't like him, simple as that. They like Biden. And young people won't show up, his most reliable demographic.

Biden has always had solid establishment challengers in the past. Not really this time. Also, Trump CAN absolutely beat Bernie. He cannot really beat Biden.
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Like Clinton couldn't lose to Trump? Young people are mobilized by Bernie and Warren, not Biden
 
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thegreatandmythical227 said:
Like Clinton couldn't lose to Trump? Young people are mobilized by Bernie and Warren, not Biden
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Just an FYI, young people as a whole don’t vote much. It’s the old age people who end up mattering most in elections and they seem to like Biden
 
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thegreatandmythical227 said:
Like Clinton couldn't lose to Trump? Young people are mobilized by Bernie and Warren, not Biden
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Said who, the media? Trump always had a chance. And on the eve of the election, he had over a 30% chance of winning based on the data (nate silver). The data was and always will be correct. Clinton won the popular vote by 2%, just as the polls showed. Trump won PA, MI, FL as the trend in the polls indicated. The one and only surprise that the polls got wrong was Wisconsin. And you can tribute that to them using previous election models to simulate turnout. You know, you need to actually look at the data and looks at guys like Nate Silver to get an idea - not listen to stupid media pundits.

And young people just don't show up. Period. Biden leads the most reliable pack of voters. He also does far better with non-white voters, which is key in the important states.
FYI, Clinton was an awful candidate. Qualified? Very much so. Likeable? Genuine? Not in a million years. And yes as a woman, she did face extra challenges. Certain demographics that always vote democrat, did indeed go for trump or stayed home (in very key areas, ex. south Florida) because they did not want a female leader. That's a cultural thing for them.

And again, Biden crushes Trump in every poll. State level, nationwide, 3ways, etc. Bernie is in toss ups in most polls vs Trump, which is scary for democrats since Bernie has never faced true attacks.
A general election with him will be about socialism vs capitalism and that will mobilize any and all voters who aren't left wing. Hell, I very strongly dislike Trump and want him out of office asap and would likely vote for him if it was him vs Bernie.
 
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MedicineZ0Z said:
Said who, the media? Trump always had a chance. And on the eve of the election, he had over a 30% chance of winning based on the data (nate silver). The data was and always will be correct. Clinton won the popular vote by 2%, just as the polls showed. Trump won PA, MI, FL as the trend in the polls indicated. The one and only surprise that the polls got wrong was Wisconsin. And you can tribute that to them using previous election models to simulate turnout. You know, you need to actually look at the data and looks at guys like Nate Silver to get an idea - not listen to stupid media pundits.

And young people just don't show up. Period. Biden leads the most reliable pack of voters. He also does far better with non-white voters, which is key in the important states.
FYI, Clinton was an awful candidate. Qualified? Very much so. Likeable? Genuine? Not in a million years. And yes as a woman, she did face extra challenges. Certain demographics that always vote democrat, did indeed go for trump or stayed home (in very key areas, ex. south Florida) because they did not want a female leader. That's a cultural thing for them.

And again, Biden crushes Trump in every poll. State level, nationwide, 3ways, etc. Bernie is in toss ups in most polls vs Trump, which is scary for democrats since Bernie has never faced true attacks.
A general election with him will be about socialism vs capitalism and that will mobilize any and all voters who aren't left wing. Hell, I very strongly dislike Trump and want him out of office asap and would likely vote for him if it was him vs Bernie.
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Nate Silver was wrong on so many accounts. 25 years ago, I'd agree with you. But now, things are so so different, especially with the rise of social and independent media. You'd be suprised just how much he and the populist movemwnt mobilizes young people. I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree here.
 
VA Hopeful Dr said:
Not when it comes to young voter turnout it hasn't.

www.foxnews.com

Hayden Panettiere's boyfriend, Brian Hickerson, arrested on suspicion of domestic violence

Hayden Panettiere's boyfriend Brian Hickerson was arrested on suspicion of domestic violence, Fox News can confirm.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com

Trump winning is a complete non sequitur.
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25 years ago, I'd agree with you. But now, things have change. Things are much different with the advent of social media and the internet. People have the information at their fingertips. We're going to have to agree to disagree here. Neither one of us will convince the other
 
thegreatandmythical227 said:
25 years ago, I'd agree with you. But now, things have change. Things are much different with the advent of social media and the internet. People have the information at their fingertips. We're going to have to agree to disagree here. Neither one of us will convince the other
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Young voters in 2016 didn't show up. That's a fact. And it isn't 25 years ago.
 
MedicineZ0Z said:
Young voters in 2016 didn't show up. That's a fact. And it isn't 25 years ago.
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They didn't show up because Clinton's message was the antithesis of what they wanted. Also, to a certain degree she downplayed young people, which made matters worse
 
thegreatandmythical227 said:
They didn't show up because Clinton's message was the antithesis of what they wanted. Also, to a certain degree she downplayed young people, which made matters worse
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They didn't turn out that much worse than for Obama (51% in 2008 compared to 46% in 2016) for his first term and better than for his second (45%).

Might I suggest you actually learn a few things before speaking out your ass.
 
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VA Hopeful Dr said:
They didn't turn out that much worse than for Obama (51% in 2008 compared to 46% in 2016) for his first term and better than for his second (45%).

Might I suggest you actually learn a few things before speaking out your ass.
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That's because Obama never wanted real change. He was an incrementalist. Only because of Bernie and Warren we're talking about Medicare for all, The green new deal, Free college tuition. It's perfectly okay to say you don't want those things. Just don't act like your unbiased.
 
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thegreatandmythical227 said:
That's because Obama never wanted real change. He was an incrementalist. Only because of Bernie and Warren we're talking about Medicare for all, The green new deal, Free college tuition. It's perfectly okay to say you don't want those things. Just don't act like your unbiased.
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This has nothing to do with me, it's entirely about you being divorced from reality.
 
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What if we had a hybrid system in which we don't change anything, the government raises taxes just a bit, and they use that extra money to subsidize individual's healthcare bills that are in the most need, and, enough money for everyone to go see a PCP once a month?

For example, if I have a sore throat and don't use my PCP monthly stipend and opt to use an emergency department instead, I couldn't ask the government to subsidize that because it was improper use of the ED. However, if I had an AAA with no insurance, the government would cover that because clearly no one else could have treated an AAA, and it was an appropriate use of the ED
 
thegreatandmythical227 said:
That's because Obama never wanted real change. He was an incrementalist. Only because of Bernie and Warren we're talking about Medicare for all, The green new deal, Free college tuition. It's perfectly okay to say you don't want those things. Just don't act like your unbiased.
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You keep making excuses. 2016 actually had the most motivated young voters of all time and they still didn't show up for Bernie in the primaries or Hillary in the general. 2020 is not even getting the same engagement as 2016 from that bracket.
Most young people in USA don't even know what the green new deal is or what medicare even covers. And free college is a horrible awful idea. Why should the taxpayer pay for people who fail out? Drop out? Are studying majors with 0 economic utility?
You know countries with free tuition has VERY high standard for getting in, right? Many also have tight quotas for each program, and it reflects economic need.
All of that works in small homogeneous countries or even larger homogeneous countries. Not a chance it would in USA.
 
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MedicineZ0Z said:
You keep making excuses. 2016 actually had the most motivated young voters of all time and they still didn't show up for Bernie in the primaries or Hillary in the general. 2020 is not even getting the same engagement as 2016 from that bracket.
Most young people in USA don't even know what the green new deal is or what medicare even covers. And free college is a horrible awful idea. Why should the taxpayer pay for people who fail out? Drop out? Are studying majors with 0 economic utility?
You know countries with free tuition has VERY high standard for getting in, right? Many also have tight quotas for each program, and it reflects economic need.
All of that works in small homogeneous countries or even larger homogeneous countries. Not a chance it would in USA.
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Maybe this clears things up. The difference between you and me is that I'm actually willing to have a conversation and listen to your input. You'll just dismiss anything I say. I actually do agree with you that free college could create some issues. My biggest concern is that I hope that it's regulated. I don't want people who get in trouble to be able to go debt free.
261195
 
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MedicineZ0Z said:
Clears it up, how? We all know he got youth engagement by making bs promises and... he still lost.
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2016 actually had the most motivated young voters of all time and they still didn't show up for Bernie in the primaries

You just said they didn't show up for him, which is false. And he's been making the same promises for 30+ years, so I wouldn't call them BS
 
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thegreatandmythical227 said:
2016 actually had the most motivated young voters of all time and they still didn't show up for Bernie in the primaries

You just said they didn't show up for him, which is false. And he's been making the same promises for 30+ years, so I wouldn't call them BS
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They did not show up in sufficient numbers for him to win, simple as that. It would have made a difference in certain states mid way through, which could have tipped the momentum.
And saying the same thing doesn't make it legit. His ideas simply wouldn't work. In Canada, their single payer system pays its doctors very well, even more in some fields than USA. Yet single payer in USA would turn doctors into NP supervisors who make 170k (at best). It just doesn't work.
And I already pointed out why other Bernie ideas like free college tuition are nuts.
 
MedicineZ0Z said:
They did not show up in sufficient numbers for him to win, simple as that. It would have made a difference in certain states mid way through, which could have tipped the momentum.
And saying the same thing doesn't make it legit. His ideas simply wouldn't work. In Canada, their single payer system pays its doctors very well, even more in some fields than USA. Yet single payer in USA would turn doctors into NP supervisors who make 170k (at best). It just doesn't work.
And I already pointed out why other Bernie ideas like free college tuition are nuts.
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He had NO name recognition in 2014-2015. The whole world knew about Clinton. He came so close to closing the gap with her, all from grassroots support. If you don't like him, that's fine. His ideas are bold. Do I think that plan will pass with flying colors? No, of course not. Like I said, I have my issues with it. But the best politicians shoot big, than compromise. That's the whole idea of his proposals. Let's play a game. What's one thing you can agree with me on.
 
Dr G Oogle said:
I agree making a single payer government run healthcare system will decrease bloat and increase efficiency
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That is exactly what the government usually does... Decrease bloat and improve efficiency
 
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thegreatandmythical227 said:
He had NO name recognition in 2014-2015. The whole world knew about Clinton. He came so close to closing the gap with her, all from grassroots support. If you don't like him, that's fine. His ideas are bold. Do I think that plan will pass with flying colors? No, of course not. Like I said, I have my issues with it. But the best politicians shoot big, than compromise. That's the whole idea of his proposals. Let's play a game. What's one thing you can agree with me on.
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And so much of that was because people didn't like Hillary. Obama also wrecked her in 2007.
And us agreeing on policy isn't relevant nor difficult since I'm a centrist. I just think that at no cost should physician income be decreased nor should taxes increase. Just because you're okay with getting robbed doesn't mean the rest of us are.

And the republicans have done a good job with the economy. Lowest unemployment since the 1960s... Incredible economic growth. And so on. Compare that to your democratic socialist paradise countries in Europe that have unemployment rates of 10%.
 
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MedicineZ0Z said:
And so much of that was because people didn't like Hillary. Obama also wrecked her in 2007.
And us agreeing on policy isn't relevant nor difficult since I'm a centrist. I just think that at no cost should physician income be decreased nor should taxes increase. Just because you're okay with getting robbed doesn't mean the rest of us are.

And the republicans have done a good job with the economy. Lowest unemployment since the 1960s... Incredible economic growth. And so on. Compare that to your democratic socialist paradise countries in Europe that have unemployment rates of 10%.
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If you actually look at data, you could see that the unemployment trend after the recession began with the Obama adminstration, not with Trmp
 
thegreatandmythical227 said:
If you actually look at data, you could see that the unemployment trend after the recession began with the Obama adminstration, not with Trmp
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I have looked at the data. The economy is not that simple. No one gets most of the credit, it has to do with many variables. But there's 0 doubt that the GOP's policies are great for short term economic improvement. The long term is up for debate at this stage. I carry no bias as a centrist whereas you come to the table assuming anything the left says or does is good / anything the right says or does is bad.

And again, I carry 0 tolerance for cuts in physician income. I also have 0 tolerance for no increases to physician income. It should at minimum increase with inflation.
I really strongly believe med student opinions on this topic are entirely invalid if you're in favor of decreasing income. We need as many voices as possible to help yes, but if you're working against doctors while being in medicine... you need to actually be one first. Start paying off your debt, get your mortgage, family/kids and all your hobbies... then look and see how the MBA boss makes 200k for doing nothing and then come back and say you want to cut everyone's salary.
 
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I couldn't go through and delete ALL of the questionable posts, but the most recent and obvious trolling posts from a certain member have been deleted (along with a couple that quoted it).
 
biglurker said:
Will laws change under single payer to reduce med school tuition? Maybe.

But guess what. No one is going to care about YOU becuase you already graduated by then. There will be no public sympathy because you would have been making “too much”.

“Senator Warren proposed this week to erase a substantial portion of more than $1.5 trillion in student debt held by Americans. Her plan would cancel up to $50,000 of student debt for every person with household income under $100,000. The loan forgiveness amount phases out as income rises. No one who earns more than $250,000 would qualify, though the forgiveness would extend to plenty of upper middle-class earners who have the means to repay.”

www.nbcnews.com

Warren's plan to wipe out student debt (and how she'd pay for it)

Many in the Democratic presidential field have already signed onto plans for free public college.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com
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Even if it did address the medical students debt, 170K for the education and training isn’t worth the time. I don’t care if govt foots the bill. It isn’t worth the aggravation. Also, these terms will likely change as political parties come into and leave. So whatever good deal you think you were promised probably won’t exist by the time you get out. Look at public service loan forgiveness. Started in 07. First loans coming up now and only a fraction were ever forgiven. They are doing their darnest to make sure you never see a dime.
 
Maybe just because I'm a woman, but Joe Biden totally creeps me out. Bernie does some too, but not like Biden does. He is way too touchy for me.
 
BeautifulSmiles523 said:
Maybe just because I'm a woman, but Joe Biden totally creeps me out. Bernie does some too, but not like Biden does. He is way too touchy for me.
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...... I just don't even know what to say to this. People really are way too sensitive these days. "He whispered something once in someones ear... #NOTMYPRESIDENT!!!"
 
KeikoTanaka said:
...... I just don't even know what to say to this. People really are way too sensitive these days. "He whispered something once in someones ear... #NOTMYPRESIDENT!!!"
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It's not just that. He's s big part why so many people in this country are struggling today. From writing and defending the crime bill, supporting the war on drugs, voting for the Iraq war, laying groundwork for the Patriot Act, his atrocious treatment of Anita Hill etc. Not to mention he seems to have made it his mission to block student debt forgiveness by making sure they can't be discharged through bankruptcy. Plenty of reasons to not like the guy
 
medschoolzombie said:
It's not just that. He's s big part why so many people in this country are struggling today. From writing and defending the crime bill, supporting the war on drugs, voting for the Iraq war, laying groundwork for the Patriot Act, his atrocious treatment of Anita Hill etc. Not to mention he seems to have made it his mission to block student debt forgiveness by making sure they can't be discharged through bankruptcy. Plenty of reasons to not like the guy
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Okay, those are valid reasons to not like someone... what she said was not.
 
KeikoTanaka said:
Okay, those are valid reasons to not like someone... what she said was not.
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Those are all valid reasons in my opinion. No one wants someone they deem as a creep as the face of their country. There’s entire websites dedicated to videos of Biden running his hands all over kids and women and in just about all of them, you can see how awkward the people feel
 
Folks, let's try and keep this discussion to the relevance of politics to the healthcare system. Having a discussion about where Joe Biden is creepy or not is not related to healthcare sufficiently. If this thread continues down this threstop this thread from getting locked due to being political in nature.

Thanks.
 
MedicineZ0Z said:
And again, I carry 0 tolerance for cuts in physician income. I also have 0 tolerance for no increases to physician income. It should at minimum increase with inflation.
I really strongly believe med student opinions on this topic are entirely invalid if you're in favor of decreasing income.

We need as many voices as possible to help yes, but if you're working against doctors while being in medicine... you need to actually be one first. Start paying off your debt, get your mortgage, family/kids and all your hobbies... then look and see how the MBA boss makes 200k for doing nothing and then come back and say you want to cut everyone's salary.
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You, sir or madam, need to run for president.

I really don't get M4All zeitgeist among my peers. It's like...do you want to be broke?
 
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ArdorAyurveda said:
You, sir or madam, need to run for president.

I really don't get M4All zeitgeist among my peers. It's like...do you want to be broke?
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It’s sort of like all those people that apply to Med school and say how much they’d love to work in the Appalachian mountains providing primary care.

It’s a knee jerk response that’s sure to please the agenda driven university admissions committee.

They don’t have to know what it means M4A they just know that’s what the need to say to the right people to get in.
 
ArdorAyurveda said:
You, sir or madam, need to run for president.

I really don't get M4All zeitgeist among my peers. It's like...do you want to be broke?
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Society indoctrinates socialism principles onto kids/teens. It's just weird that a med student who has worked far harder than the average man doesn't think they should get proportional pay.
 
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