Christian Psy.D. and Ph.D. Programs

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apumic

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Suprisingly....I agree with John. ;)

I looked at the Baylor program, and I thought it was pretty solid. I wasn't wild about its location (i am not a fan of texas in general, nor waco), but some people like it. I also looked at the CU program. One thing to note about Colorado programs.....from what i've been told, A LOT of psychologists stay or re-locate to CO, so there are a plethora of clinicians there. I'd still consider moving there because it is a gorgous part of the country.

Please keep in mind, location is just a small part of the overall consideration, but in my case....it is what I first remembered when I was looking at those two programs. :laugh:

I don't know much about the rest.

-t
 
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Jon Snow said:
baylor may not be your most expensive option; ask them about tuition waivers and assistantships.
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Back when I looked at it, they had full waivers, stipend, on-campus apartments, etc. Financially, it was one of the best packages I came across.

Jon Snow said:
On a side note, I'm not sure religion should be integrated in a science based program. It seems suspect.
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That was the first thing that I thought.....I think there could be a real issue with potential bias that may encroach on your work....just something to be aware of.

-t
 
You should also take a look at Loyola (Maryland). Psy.D I think. They have a smaller entering class and higher admissions standards than most Psy.D programs although the funding doesn't look very good.

Baylor is a fantastic program with great funding. The best overall Psy.D program in my opinion with a slightly less desirable location.
 
perfektspace said:
You should also take a look at Loyola (Maryland). Psy.D I think. They have a smaller entering class and higher admissions standards than most Psy.D programs although the funding doesn't look very good.
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Yet another program I looked at. :laugh: I liked what I saw...the program seemed pretty good, the faculty was approachable, and I talked with a number of the students and overall they had a positive experience. The b'more area is a GREAT area to live; I spent 6+ years there.

Most important...if you visit the baltimore area....check out Nacho Mama's for lunch, Helen's Garden for dinner, and the dessert shop (i forget the name, but locals will know what you are talking about) in Little Italy. Trust me....education is all well and good, but eating well....that's a must!

-t
 
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I am a Baylor student and highly recommend the program. Almost all of our tuition is paid and we receive a monthly stipend. The practicum sites are well-organized and offer many hours of therapy experience (3000 hours before internship), and research opportunities are diverse and well-organized. I interviewed and was accepted at many of the other schools you mentioned. I liked Fuller and George Fox the best, but the size of the classes and the costs were very prohibitive. Baylor usually only accepts six students a year, so the atmosphere is like family and the professors are available. I was accepted to several PHD programs as well (Washington University, Miami University, etc...) with excellent funding but really fell for Baylor at the interview. If you have more questions PM me.
 
Check out Loma Linda University

Definitely a Christian program and located in sunny SoCal!
 
I have also heard really good things about Fuller, assuming cost is not an issue. It seems to have a very good balance between research and clinical training.
 
apumic said:
I am considering looking for a school that takes more than a couple of minutes to consider spirituality and its role in the practice of clinical psychology...
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If that's what you're looking for you might also want to consider BYU.
 
OP - I have two professors that teach abpsy/personality psy/health psy/fillintheblank psy depending on what term you look at the class schedule - and they both got their Psy.D. from Baylor.

From everything either of them mentioned about it, they loved their school. Can't tell you much about theological integration or not, but they seemed to rather like things at Baylor.
 
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I attend Evangel University in Springfield, MO. It definately integrates Christianity w/ psychology. It's a good one!
 
To everyone who has posted on ths thread. The OP simply wanted info on Christian schools offering a doctorate, and there are many. This is not the place for a discussion on the Hx, merits, or validity of religion(s). I am sorry for those who posted long, well though out responses to the religion argument, but there was no way to split this thread, and really the discussion of religion in general is not a psych topic per se. Keep to the OP's ? please.
 
and (despite being a Christian school) does not appear to have a theology integration component (which would be my primary reason for attending a private or Christian university).

The schools you mention come from a wide range of beliefs, even if they are within the rubric of Christian.

The ones I wouldn't go to (based on the school as a whole not specificly it's psych program) include Fuller, Regent, and Azuza Pacific. I'd probably lean towards Wheaton and Rosemead.

If you haven't yet read it, I recommend reading Modern Psychotherapies: A Comprehensive Christian Appraisal and Biblical Concepts for Christian Counseling: A Case for Integrating Psychology and Theology.
 
Lori3 said:
and (despite being a Christian school) does not appear to have a theology integration component (which would be my primary reason for attending a private or Christian university).

The schools you mention come from a wide range of beliefs, even if they are within the rubric of Christian.

The ones I wouldn't go to (based on the school as a whole not specificly it's psych program) include Fuller, Regent, and Azuza Pacific. I'd probably lean towards Wheaton and Rosemead.

If you haven't yet read it, I recommend reading Modern Psychotherapies: A Comprehensive Christian Appraisal and Biblical Concepts for Christian Counseling: A Case for Integrating Psychology and Theology.
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why wouldn't you go to those schools?
 
Lori,

Thank you so much for your suggestions.
I will look at those books--they look like good resources.

I would be interested in your reasons for not thinking Fuller, Regent or APU would be a good choice.
I do, however, agree with your choices in terms of top 2--Rosemead and Wheaton are the two I am most serious about at this time.
 
here are a few thoughts on the schools you've listed:

I- think of the schools you've mentioned I would also say Wheaton or Rosemead if you really want integration..Wheaton has a very good academic reputation and is very strong theologically..It's definitely a degree that should be respected by non-christian schools..
-Baylor is a great program and you may have some christian faculty but you won't get integration.
- CU is a great program but I definitely wouldn't go if you are wanting any sort of christian influence..
- Definitely carefully check the theology on george fox and Regent..i think it may be a little different..
- SMU is not accredited and also more of a school with a christian history than actual present day practice..
The main thing is to make sure it is APA accredited and to do some major checking of the theology of the program..A christian program could be great but you need to be really careful or you could wind up with some ideas that may not be bibilical..
Good Luck!
 
I looked into Fuller and Regent. Fuller sounds like a great program with good integration of religion and science but it is $50,000/year---and loans only cover 37. I had to rule it out after I found that one out. I'm going to Regent next week for an interview and heard about it from my advisor who said one of it's faults is that its a Christian school (which I see as a positive!). He said aside from that, it is very scientifically oriented and a great school that would train you well to be a psychologist. I'll let you know after my interview.
As for SMU--I use to live in Dallas and my sister is an undergrad there and at least from what I've seen, it is Christian in name only.....
 
I am currently in the interview process and I have been looking for a solid PsyD program that has an integration component as well as good training. In terms of reputation as an institution, Wheaton and Fuller are fairly renowned even in secular circles. Less renowned, however a solid looking program is at Regent University. They have first class training facilities on sight that are equipped with video, audio, and one way mirrors for each of their therapy rooms (the implications for training would be beneficial).
In looking at integration it is important to look at whether or not the integration courses are taught by faculty with both theology and psychology degrees. Many programs offer integration, but they are taught by theologians with little or no psychology training. Rosemead and Regent offer true integration courses with an interdisciplinary focus as opposed to a multidisciplinary focus, I am unsure about the others.
Another factor to look at in each school is whether they offer faculty members who have the same interests as you, so that you can write a dissertation in a desired area.
Lastly, it is also important to look at the location in terms of training facilities for your practica sites. George Fox is in Newburg which is not a very big town and Fuller and Rosemead are in Southern California (hotbed for clinics and hospitals).
I hope that some of this helps, you really have to play the end game and it sounds like you want to work in a paraprofessional setting. So, see which school would afford you the best opportunities for training and internships in this area.
 
Flounder, how'd your interview at Regent end up going?

Also... I have noticed that most (if not all) of the Christian programs seem to focus on less-directive therapies -- especially psychotherapy and family systems. While I see these therapies as contributing valuable ideas, I do not think I want to practice non-directive therapy myself. While I realize this may change as I gain experience, I believe I would want to at least get *some* experience and training in more directive approaches (at least Adlerian, and possibly even get some experience with CBT and Behavioral models).
So I am wondering whether my desire to get experience in these models of therapy would cause such programs to be a bad fit for me, or do people generally find their ideal model of therapy during the doctoral internship?

Thanks!
 
apumic said:
Flounder, how'd your interview at Regent end up going?

Also... I have noticed that most (if not all) of the Christian programs seem to focus on less-directive therapies -- especially psychotherapy and family systems. While I see these therapies as contributing valuable ideas, I do not think I want to practice non-directive therapy myself. While I realize this may change as I gain experience, I believe I would want to at least get *some* experience and training in more directive approaches (at least Adlerian, and possibly even get some experience with CBT and Behavioral models).
So I am wondering whether my desire to get experience in these models of therapy would cause such programs to be a bad fit for me, or do people generally find their ideal model of therapy during the doctoral internship?

Thanks!
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I would think that behavioural models and Christian programs would be pretty mutually exclusive... I don't know many Christians who would endorse a behavioural model, considering behaviourists generally reject the idea that even the human mind exists.
 
I think your 'classic' behaviorist might agree, but I think there is definitely some more flexibility when it comes to the modern behaviorist.

As for getting CBT and/or behaviorist training.....I think that would serve you well. I am far from a behaviorist, but I've definitely used some behavior modification with my pts (especially the very young kids and MRs). It is helpful to learn, and/or use on your kids! :laugh:

-t
 
RayneeDeigh said:
I would think that behavioural models and Christian programs would be pretty mutually exclusive... I don't know many Christians who would endorse a behavioural model, considering behaviourists generally reject the idea that even the human mind exists.
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Interesting thought. I can certainly see where you're coming from on that, since so much of "Christian counseling" seems to be based on talking through issues and letting the person find their own way, but I guess in my own experience with having a counselor (as part of the undergrad counseling classes I've taken), I've always found it particularly annoying (and seemingly unproductive/counterproductive) when all the therapist does is want to talk everything out! I would much rather the therapist help the client (i.e., me in those cases) find ways of improving the situation through homework (especially insofar as this helps the client remain involved in therapy outside the therapy session, shows the client that treatment is ultimately his or her responsibility, and provides measurable goals).
While criticisms for behavioral models of therapy abound (treats symptoms not problems, manipulates the client, open to abuse, etc., etc., etc.), I strongly feel that there is a place for it in Christian therapy -- especially if I want to work with pre-morbid individuals, creating an intervention using paraprofessionals -- it would seem to me that using CBT methods in that case to help treat early symptoms might be effective in delaying the onset of mental disorders and/or subverting them by helping to increase such things as social interest.
I guess I could see myself pursuing a fairly Adlerian model of therapy, which views behavioral methods as valuable insofar as they can be used in the treatment of certain psychological disorders even though I may not subscribe to an entirely deterministic view of human nature...
 
Anyone know how important it is to have Behavioral & CBT methods covered thoroughly in your doctoral education if you hope to practice it or can one learn it fairly well during the internship and/or practica?
 
apumic said:
Anyone know how important it is to have Behavioral & CBT methods covered thoroughly in your doctoral education if you hope to practice it or can one learn it fairly well during the internship and/or practica?
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You can pick it up, but I'd really suggest to try and get experience (and supervision) with it before internship. You can read up on the basics in Judith Beck's Book: "Cognitive Therapy: Basics and Beyond" (ISBN-10: 0898628474).

-t
 
I may be really late in jumping on this thread Two things to say:

1) Go Rosemead. I went to Grove City College ( a Christian School) and the prof that got me into psychology moved to Rosemead... he's super tight! Besides, the program is excellent.

2) The behaviorist approach is not necessarily in opposition to a Christian worldview. Being Christian doesn't even necessitate believing in a metaphysical sprit or mind. If you don't believe me, google "Non-reductive physicalism"
 
haha, Psychopeful, you're NEVER too late to join in.
I appreciate your input any time, thanks!

And that sounds good. Rosemead and Wheaton have been my top 2, but we'll see where I get in!

I actually read quite a bit about non-reductive physicalism when I wrote my term/faith integration paper for Cognition last semester -- I was assigned to argue for monism in conjunction with Scripture and psychology, so I ended up arguing for non-reductive physicalism. It was kind of fun, although it definitely challenged my own beliefs! (Which, I think, is a good thing! :D)
 
apumic said:
Flounder, how'd your interview at Regent end up going?



My interview there was ok. I think everyone else in my interview group was really excited about it but I don't think it was the right place for me. The campus is beautiful and the program is all about taking care of the whole self, which includes your spiritual life. There are many research opportunities and opportunities for psych-related mission trips, which I thought was neat. The faculty were very nice, friendly, down-to-earth, and definitely dedicated to the student's well-being (both spiritually and academically). However, the person that interviewed me was extremely stiff and hard to talk to (and I don't say this about many people.) and I felt like he had put himself on a pedestal and was talking down to me the entire time. The other students were very friendly and enthusiastic about the school. Many of htem (more than half) were married and some even had kids while they were in the program, so the program is flexible in that regard (although I was a little scared off by all the married people!)
The clinic was good and offered lots of opportunities for direction and critique from the faculty. They do a lot of work at the VA, which is huge because there is a big military base in Va Beach.
It seemed like a really strong program that will teach you how to incorporate your faith into your practice but it also teaches you how to treat clients in a secular way as well. I was accepted but declined based on personal reasons, not because of the program itself. Hope this helps!
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I was accepted to Fuller several years ago and declined. The cost was outlandish! Applying again this time around (after attending a secular PhD program in the mean time), I was accepted to Wheaton and am going to be there in the Fall. It seems to have a solid program and to teach all of the modes of therapy. Are any of you going there? Or were any of you there for interview day?
 
doctorpsych said:
why wouldn't you go to those schools?
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Theological concerns. *wink*


Seriously, though, Wheaton would be my first choice because of R. Stanton Jones being there--and the well-respected reputation Wheaton has in general. Also, a friend of mine was recently offered a prof position there--and considering her strengths, I like the direction Wheaton is going with its hiring.

A local therapist I know who works primarily with children went to Biola. She's solid--and so that speaks well to me of Biola, as well.
 
University of La Verne is a Christian University that offers a PsyD. Also, since you mentioned potentially wanting to open up some sort of community program, ULV might be a good fit because they emphasize community psychology.

I'm not saying that this is the best program; however, you might want to check it out based on your interest in a Christian program offering community elements.

Also, its located in the suburbs of LA. Which is nice. ;)
 
Is the idea to treat people who are christian...
Or persuade people who aren't that they might be mentally disordered in virtue of their spiritual life being out of kilter?
If you are interested in spirituality...
Then why a christian program over a buddist program or an islamic program or a jewish program or a hindu program or...

?
 
TobyJones; I don't usually get involved in issues like this but I thought I would chime in. I think there are two reasons the poster may seek a Christian education rather than the others you mention;

1)The poster is a Christian and believes Christianity is true. If you truly believe your religion to be the truth, then you probably wouln't expect to find it to hinder your scientific objectivity. If the poster believes Christianity is true, he/she would therefore believe a Hindu education would not be based on truth and WOULD hinder his/her objectivity. I know you are the philosophy buff, but it's just a thought.

2) I don't think any of the programs mentioned teach that mental disorders come from spiritual lives being out of kilter. I think the idea is to be able to relate to people who are spiritual. In the United States there is a much larger percentage of clients who will hold Christian beliefs than any of the others you mention. If the idea is to relate to a client's spiritual beliefs, then a Christian education makes much more sense than any of the others you mention.
 
I actually don't have a problem with faith.
I have faith that the future will be like the past (in the sense that the laws of nature will continue to hold etc). The only reason I have for believing that is that it seems to have been true up to now... But I can't cite the past to justify my belief in the future when that is precisely what is being called into question. Maybe I'm like the rooster who thinks 'they will feed me soon' but of course it is christmas day and they come with the axe instead...

I guess I just wonder how learning about ONE religion means that one is qualified to talk about spirituality generally speaking. Maybe it qualifies one to talk to people who are of that same religion.

If I start drinking then stop will I be better able to help alchoholics?

Not sure.

Just kicking ideas around really.

(No disrespect...)
 
toby jones said:
If I start drinking then stop will I be better able to help alchoholics?

Not sure.

Just kicking ideas around really.

(No disrespect...)
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Great question....I've seen this before in ED treatment. There are some facilities that are staffed by people in recovery (not exclusively, but they make a point to share that). Do I think this 'adds' anything to the treatment.....I'm not sure. My primary concern revolves around counter-transference issues. I believe sharing a common experience can contribute to some insight, in addition to being a positively contributor to building rapport....but is this at the expense of objectivity and patient focused work? Can the 'added' insight and rapport building be better addressed another way, void of counter-transference issues?

As for the role of religion/spirituality......will the clinician be objective if his/her spiritual views are in conflict with that of the patient? With the integrated approach, there is an implied focus on religious/spiritual influence, so will the conflict undermine the entire process, and take the focus away from the pathology work, and instead focus on the religion...which isn't the presenting problem.

Obviously it comes down to a clinician's ability to stay objective, but is this unduly complicated because of the integrated approach?

Just something to think about.....

-t
 
> Do I think this 'adds' anything to the treatment.....I'm not sure.My primary concern revolves around counter-transference issues.

Amen!

Ones experiences can be used to help and they can be used to harm. In the addiction area in particular there is this (IMHO crazy) notion that you have to have been there to understand. Does that mean I can't help people with HIV because I haven't been there? Does that mean I can't help people with cancer because I haven't been there either? Does that mean I can't help the opposite gender? I don't see how having been there helps, really. I do think that human experience is similar enough for people to basically know about doubt and hopelessness and disgust and despair etc...

> As for the role of religion/spirituality......will the clinician be objective if his/her spiritual views are in conflict with that of the patient?

That is why I wondered if the whole point was to exclusively treat people who are christian.

I actually... Have a little experience with the 'Bio-Psycho-Social-Spiritual' version of the Bio-Psycho-Social model. It is typically put forward as a 'culturally sensitive' thing to be thinking about because it reminds clinicians to be sensitive to the spiritual views of people who are from a DIFFERENT spiritual background in particular (e.g., the spiritual views of indigenous peoples). I think that this cross-cultural sensitivity is a good thing. I'm not sure how furthering the advance of christians (surely not the oppressed minority in the US!) is part of that, however.
 
I don't think that, for example, being of one sex would make you weaker at treating individuals of the other sex. However, many clients of one sex would prefer a therapist of the same (or other) sex. Likewise, many clients would prefer a therapist of the same race, ethnicity, age-group, sexual orientation, whatever. I'm sure religion is another one of these points. Matching along dimensions like these can make therapy move along quicker and improve retention rates.

So, if I got a staunchly Christian client, would I pray with him or her? No, because I don't believe in that and I think it would be detrimental to therapy for me to do something I not only don't believe in but am pretty irreverent about. But for the client, being able to pray with the therapist (and having the therapist believe that it was beneficial) might be vitally important to therapy. In that case, getting a therapist with the same religious views would be important. However, I'm not convinced that justifies the existence of "Christian" programs.

If someone who knows would care to elucidate what differentiates a "Christian" program from anything else, I think that would inform the discussion.
 
During my search for programs, I came across the accredited PsyD program at Regent. As I browsed through their faculty research interests, the program has some of the strongest advocates for reparative therapy for homosexuals. I am open to others' religious faiths and, in fact, believe that having firm (but not pathological) spiritual beliefs may be beneficial to mental health. However, I was puzzled by how this program (and perhap others) maintains its accreditation status in an otherwise secular institution like APA that supports human diversity and gay parenthood.
 
toroharo said:
During my search for programs, I came across the accredited PsyD program at Regent. As I browsed through their faculty research interests, the program has some of the strongest advocates for reparative therapy for homosexuals. I am open to others' religious faiths and, in fact, believe that having firm (but not pathological) spiritual beliefs may be beneficial to mental health. However, I was puzzled by how this program (and perhap others) maintains its accreditation status in an otherwise secular institution like APA that supports human diversity and gay parenthood.
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That wouldn't push a program away from accreditation if they met other criteria. Sexual orientation change therapy was never officially banned by the APA (although I'm fairly certain that a few other professional organizations such as the Social Workers Association (or whatever its called) have outright banned it). Right now there are only correlational data about a link between so-called reparative therapy and suicidal ideation and attempts, but a few decent studies establishing a causal relationship would probably push that one over the edge and finally get it officially banned by the APA. There's a really intelligent, well-written, and well-thought out post on sexual orientation change from a few weeks ago on the board somewhere. (oh, here you go http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=455012). There's also an old Regent thread somewhere where this very issue is discussed.

Just another example of the STRICT apa guidelines that were being discussed in another thread!
 
JockNerd said:
That wouldn't push a program away from accreditation if they met other criteria.
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That's true...then I wonder why religious programs would want to be accredited by an institution that has dissimilar ideologies, except perhaps for legitimacy.

Don't get me wrong, I have total respect for pastoral staff and counselors, and believe that they are wonderful people to go to if one shares the same faith with them. It just creates some sort of confusion on the mission of these programs: How Christian or how scientific do they want to be? If scientific evidence points in a direction away from faith, how should their students reconcile the schism?

I guess there is no easy answer.
 
I'm an Alum of SMU, and I can attest there is nothing "Christian" or conservative about that school. The student body may be Christian oriented, but the administration is definitely not. Even the theology school is anti-bush library. Just because it says "southern" and "methodist" doesn't mean that plays a role in the courses or professors. Baylor is a way better suggestion if you want topics splashed with a Christian light. SMU will be unbiased in most all regards. And that's the way it should be. IMO.
 
OP-

Pepperdine is absent from your list.
 
JESUITM said:
Even the theology school is anti-bush library.
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(As an aside: It is sad that people assume being Christian has anything to do with being pro-bush. The conservative right does NOT speak for or own the Christian faith! Sorry for injecting that, but I have a lot of transference issues with this subject...;))
 
Thanks 73BARMYPgsp,

I added it to my list. I think I initially took it off because of the requirement of pursuing a masters degree separately and I would prefer to go straight for the Psy.D. or Ph.D.

Anyone have thoughts on programs like that, where you need to get your Masters first and then pursue your doctoral studies?
 
apumic,
You're a senoir now, right?

Where are you applying?
 
Hey Biogirl,

Yep...I'm a senior, but I am actually taking a year off to do research and possibly work at a residential treatment center (if I get hired that is) and then will apply next fall. I decided this year would be impossible if I tried to do everything at once!

Thanks for asking!

For now, I'm still thinking Rosemead (Ph.D. esp., but Psy.D. good too) and Wheaton for my top tier of choices; my second tier is Azusa Pacific, Seattle Pacific; George Fox, Regent, U of LaVerne, and Fuller are also good options I am considering.
 
I'm surprised (although a counseling program IIRC) Notre Dame wasn't on your list. Last I remembered it was most definitely a christian (albeit Catholic) institution.

Like many others I interviewed at Baylor, what a great program. Once you factor in the support from the dept it is not very expensive at all compared to other Psy.D. programs and has an excellent reputation. If you want a Psy.D. with none of the stigma that professional Psy.D. programs carry, this is the program for you.

I didn't make the cut there, but if you work hard and get some clinical experience prior to applying you can get into that program. (I didn't have any clinical experience which weakened my chances and was the reason I was not accepted.) Despite not making the cut, I love the people there and think the world of the program.

Make an effort to visit programs you are really interested in the year prior to applying (a little late for this cycle) but it makes a difference when you show interest in getting to know people in the program. Alternatively, meet them at APA or state psychological association conventions.

Mark
 
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