Chronically overworked

[libertyyne]

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Curious OP, What are you interested in matching in ?


Are you concerned that one HP or less that H will be problematic?

 

[honey0102]

Curious OP, What are you interested in matching in ?


Are you concerned that one HP or less that H will be problematic?

Yeah, I'm pretty nervous regarding that...I'm considering a few fields but one is radiology

 

[Dantes]

God forbid somebody just wants to come online to vent lol. OP I'd ask your school/clerkship director about having to stay after your preceptor is gone. At least at my school that doesn't really happen as far as I know. Hang in there!

 

[honey0102]

God forbid somebody just wants to come online to vent lol. OP I'd ask your school/clerkship director about having to stay after your preceptor is gone. At least at my school that doesn't really happen as far as I know. Hang in there!

Thanks so much. People like you, with your sympathetic demeanor, are what make SDN so great 🙂

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I do with my original preceptor. She lets me go in alone first. I learn a ton with her.
With the other docs it varies...some of them do the majority of it and let me chime in at the end...not at all like my preceptor.

IYou could point the above out to your preceptor and ask if, for the final week, you could just work with her to give you more time to study for the shelf.

She does not have the ability to edit them, per our EMR. Just can add comments. But I read them after she does that, 95% of the time it is "I have read this note and agree with it". It's a standard phrase she adds after each note.

If you are taking care of Medicare patients, this is Medicare fraud. Physicians can now bill for medical student notes, but the documentation requirements are very clear and are much more than this. If you turn her clinic in and they investigate, you would get some part of any fine -- which could be huge. You would only do this after you complete your rotation, of course. Assuming they have many students, likely this would add up. As the whistleblower, you are entitled to about 20% of any fine.

 

[JP2740]

For some reason I decided to check out SDN to see what was up. It's been a longggg time. And of course some weirdos are somehow saying this is good. It's not good. It's FM - No reason for you to work more than 50 hours per week at the max. Don't listen to these people. Write that person up.

 

[libertyyne]

For some reason I decided to check out SDN to see what was up. It's been a longggg time. And of course some weirdos are somehow saying this is good. It's not good. It's FM - No reason for you to work more than 50 hours per week at the max. Don't listen to these people. Write that person up.

its not FM tho, its IM.

 

[JP2740]

its not FM tho, its IM.

Same ****, right?

 

[libertyyne]

Same ****, right?

i wasnt working 70 hour weeks on FM, I was on IM. not sure about you.

 

[JP2740]

i wasnt working 70 hour weeks on FM, I was on IM. not sure about you.

I did IM residency. I never thought that the extra hours I spent on crappy rotations getting abused helped build my stamina or anything. It mainly contributed to burning out earlier on. It's outpatient man, no reason to work with more than one physician in a day or stay later than any one attending.

 

[libertyyne]

I did IM residency. I never thought that the extra hours I spent on crappy rotations getting abused helped build my stamina or anything. It mainly contributed to burning out earlier on. It's outpatient man, no reason to work with more than one physician in a day or stay later than any one attending.

what would you propose the OP do ?
Im sure the OPs proctor is going to give OP straight 5's after OP goes and complains to the school or brings it up with the preceptor. either OP deals with it, or OP gets screwed for it. No need for OP to take it personally because some jackass PCP sucks.

 

[allantois]

i wasnt working 70 hour weeks on FM, I was on IM. not sure about you.

Why do ppl pull up this crap about what they did back in their day? The thread is not about a pissing match about who worked more. This is just contributing to the toxic medical culture.

 

[libertyyne]

Why do ppl pull up this crap about what they did back in their day? The thread is not about a pissing match about who worked more. This is just contributing to the toxic medical culture.

I am an M3. This is not back in the day , this is current day, OP is competing against me in the NBMEs.

 

[Lawpy]

You're right. I think the OP should suck it up and do his or her job, and if there is an evaluation process at the end, let their opinion be known in an anonymous process.

I'm just saying it isn't helpful for us to normalize the PCP's behavior or tell OP it's somehow a good thing this is happening. You know, coming on SDN and getting some validation is nicer than being told you're being a wuss for not wanting to be a note robot for 2 family medicine doctors everyday and answer pimp questions on stuff these PCP's don't even take care of.

Apparently, it doesn't seem ok to vent on here without getting criticized in the process...

 

[Giovanotto]

For some reason I decided to check out SDN to see what was up. It's been a longggg time. And of course some weirdos are somehow saying this is good. It's not good. It's FM - No reason for you to work more than 50 hours per week at the max. Don't listen to these people. Write that person up.

Glad someone stepped up. I almost did, then thought better of it. It's a great thread to sort out who's keeping it real and who's malignant.

 

[operaman]

A healthy skepticism is not malignant. With few exceptions, I would say most of us who have taken a contrarian view to the OP have done so respectfully and added some additional perspective for discussion. Venting here is almost guaranteed to get feedback that disagrees with you and I would argue that is what makes this forum so valuable.

Those of us who’ve been around a little bit have seen countless examples of stories where a student or resident claimed abuse and malignant behavior but in reality were themselves the problem. For example, there was a psych resident who got some press a couple years back claiming her program fired her for taking time off for her cancer treatment. Sounds horrible right? Thankfully she sued and we eventually got to see her program’s side in public filings and holy crap she seemed like the worst resident ever who should have been canned long before her diagnosis. There was the whole Eugene Gu debacle where he very publicly alleged harassment and mistreatment but then turned out to be full of crap and with a rather seedy track record himself. Then there was the Med student at Case expelled as an MS4 who told a sad story of mistreatment but court filings ultimately showed he had been a tool for a long time and absolutely had it coming.

All this to say: there’s always another side to every story. Hard to say what we would all think if we shadowed OP for a week and witnessed this firsthand. Maybe we would agree it’s excessive. Maybe this attending really is having students scribe and then committing Medicare fraud by billing for those notes without proper attestation and oversight. Or maybe it’s someone who wants to be a good teacher and is doing her best while not realizing it’s A little too much in light of a looming IM shelf exam.

These situations need to be handled carefully not only for OP’s grade, but also because this attending may actually want to be a good teacher and raking her over the coals could turn her into just another checked out doc who gives everyone 3s and ignores students entirely. You’re all going to run into staff who aren’t quite giving you what you need educationally and there’s an art to how you approach giving feedback so they will improve. Done well, I’ve seen kind feedback turn one of the worst teaching attendings ever into one of the best I’ve worked with - almost overnight. Be kind, assume they mean well, and work through the proper channels.

 

[honey0102]

its not FM tho, its IM.

Outpatient is outpatient. Being made to do free labor as a scribe for other doctors isn't right.
But I'm done arguing with you, so have a good evening.

 

[honey0102]

i wasnt working 70 hour weeks on FM, I was on IM. not sure about you.

Hahaha, ummmm, so did I in INPATIENT
And if I was actually doing valuable stuff in outpatient thats one thing.
Scribing is not.

 

[honey0102]

Apparently, it doesn't seem ok to vent on here without getting criticized in the process...

This is how I feel :/

 

[honey0102]

The preceptor now wants me to do a lit review for one of her case reports. Due tomorrow. I have shelf on Friday. And not getting authorship either.
The burnout is unbelievable. Running on 4 hours of sleep because I have only weekends/late nights to study. Now doing scutwork for sure because....I'm not even getting authorship...and she wants a detailed lit review, assigned one day due the next.
If this is how medicine will always be, I think I need to reconsider it.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

This is how I feel :/

Not saying it’s right, but I mean you came here to vent on a public forum. You’re going to have people disagree with your view that it’s abuse or whatever if they don’t think it is. You seem to just be outright dismissing any differing view and graciously thanking the people who agree with you.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

The preceptor now wants me to do a lit review for one of her case reports. Due tomorrow. I have shelf on Friday. And not getting authorship either.
The burnout is unbelievable. Running on 4 hours of sleep because I have only weekends/late nights to study. Now doing scutwork for sure because....I'm not even getting authorship...and she wants a detailed lit review, assigned one day due the next.
If this is how medicine will always be, I think I need to reconsider it.

What in the world?

 

[honey0102]

Not saying it’s right, but I mean you came here to vent on a public forum. You’re going to have people disagree with your view that it’s abuse or whatever if they don’t think it is. You seem to just be outright dismissing any differing view and graciously thanking the people who agree with you.

That is not true. Angus and a few others graciously disagreed and I took that. Even said I welcome anything as long as it is politely said. What I don't take is sarcasm and condescension

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

That is not true. Angus and a few others graciously disagreed and I took that. Even said I welcome anything as long as it is politely said. What I don't take is sarcasm and condescension

I mean there are a bunch of examples in this thread where someone has disagreed that you’re as overworked as you say and you just dismissed them.

But I don’t really care to argue. As far as I’m concerned, you can vent all you want. I’m just pointing out that you shouldn’t really expect to just have everyone agree with you. That hardly ever happens.

 

[honey0102]

What in the world?

Yup. Exactly.
I didn't reach my breaking point, with Step, or surgery. But I've reached it now. Shelf is on Friday and I'm going to be up late tonight, not studying for shelf but working on a case report that is a one in a mil

I mean there are a bunch of examples in this thread where someone has disagreed that you’re as overworked as you say and you just dismissed them.

But I don’t really care to argue. As far as I’m concerned, you can vent all you want. I’m just pointing out that you shouldn’t really expect to just have everyone agree with you. That hardly ever happens.

If you look at it, I dismissed them because they were being sarcastic, rude, etc. Didn't dismiss those who were polite.
And...I just have to say...having me do the legwork for a whole case report + no authorship that too right before shelf...that's something else right there.

 

[Lawpy]

The preceptor now wants me to do a lit review for one of her case reports. Due tomorrow. I have shelf on Friday. And not getting authorship either.
The burnout is unbelievable. Running on 4 hours of sleep because I have only weekends/late nights to study. Now doing scutwork for sure because....I'm not even getting authorship...and she wants a detailed lit review, assigned one day due the next.
If this is how medicine will always be, I think I need to reconsider it.

This feels like a massive rip-off but I feel like there will be some people going to justify this as something educational and worth tolerating.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Yup. Exactly.
I didn't reach my breaking point, with Step, or surgery. But I've reached it now. Shelf is on Friday and I'm going to be up late tonight, not studying for shelf but working on a case report that is a one in a mil

yeah no that’s BS.

If you look at it, I dismissed them because they were being sarcastic, rude, etc. Didn't dismiss those who were polite.
And...I just have to say...having me do the legwork for a whole case report + no authorship that too right before shelf...that's something else right there.

Yeah I mean it is what it is. But yeah, the lit review thing. Wow.

 

[honey0102]

This feels like a massive rip-off but I feel like there will be some people going to justify this as something educational and worth tolerating.

Might have been ok had it not been leading up to shelf and when I'm already working extra shifts scribing for other doctors.
I'm starting to think I'll need to see a mental health counselor...the stress from this rotation is interfering way too much...I've literally stopped being happy about things I used to be happy about. All I can think of is how stressed I am due to lack of study time, trying to meet their demands. I'm never going to be able to scribe for multiple doctors, do their research for them, and also somehow pass shelf.

 

[honey0102]

yeah no that’s BS.



Yeah I mean it is what it is. But yeah, the lit review thing. Wow.

I'll do it today but tomorrow if she makes me add to it like another 5 or so hours...is it fair to say I'm very worried for shelf and will do this work over break?

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I'll do it today but tomorrow if she makes me add to it like another 5 or so hours...is it fair to say I'm very worried for shelf and will do this work over break?

I’m just a first year but 7 years in the Navy has made my give a **** o meter pretty low. I would just tell her what’s what, but I also don’t have many qualms about respectfully telling someone in charge of me that they’re being ridiculous.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I'll do it today but tomorrow if she makes me add to it like another 5 or so hours...is it fair to say I'm very worried for shelf and will do this work over break?

IMO there’s no reason you need to do a thorough lit review in a day unless she has a deadline she forgot about and is dumping it on you, which is grossly unprofessional.

Also I would absolutely bring up the fact that you will not be getting credit for the work. If she threatens your grade you need to go to the school because that is not ethical.

 

[longhaul3]

The preceptor now wants me to do a lit review for one of her case reports. Due tomorrow. I have shelf on Friday. And not getting authorship either.
The burnout is unbelievable. Running on 4 hours of sleep because I have only weekends/late nights to study. Now doing scutwork for sure because....I'm not even getting authorship...and she wants a detailed lit review, assigned one day due the next.
If this is how medicine will always be, I think I need to reconsider it.

This sounds insane. You mean she's planning on publishing this case report that you are physically writing without giving you any credit? If this is true I would consider it highly unethical—plagiarism, essentially. If she goes through with this and it ends up being submitted to an academic journal you should absolutely discuss the matter with your school.

 

[honey0102]

IMO there’s no reason you need to do a thorough lit review in a day unless she has a deadline she forgot about and is dumping it on you, which is grossly unprofessional.

Also I would absolutely bring up the fact that you will not be getting credit for the work. If she threatens your grade you need to go to the school because that is not ethical.

This might be possible-she didn't mention it but who knows.
Thanks so much for the help

 

[honey0102]

This sounds insane. You mean she's planning on publishing this case report that you are physically writing without giving you any credit? If this is true I would consider it highly unethical—plagiarism, essentially. If she goes through with this and it ends up being submitted to an academic journal you should absolutely discuss the matter with your school.

But what if she took what I wrote and re-wrote it? With same sources/info but different wording or organization? Or added something to it, other info perhaps? I guess these are all possibilities.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

But what if she took what I wrote and re-wrote it? With same sources/info but different wording or organization? Or added something to it, other info perhaps? I guess these are all possibilities.

That’s still plagiarism. Rewording what someone else wrote doesn’t take away the fact that she would be using your work without giving you credit.

 

[honey0102]

That’s still plagiarism. Rewording what someone else wrote doesn’t take away the fact that she would be using your work without giving you credit.

I see. I'm going to push for including my name if this at all gets published then. Thanks a ton for the insight

 

[Chelsea FC]

Maybe this is all a test to see if you have a backbone and stand up to her? Just joking this sounds horrible OP

 

[honey0102]

Maybe this is all a test to see if you have a backbone and stand up to her? Just joking this sounds horrible OP

Haha if only. Thanks for the sympathy!

 

[Dro133]

But what if she took what I wrote and re-wrote it? With same sources/info but different wording or organization? Or added something to it, other info perhaps? I guess these are all possibilities.

This is so ridiculous that I'm almost having a hard time believing it. If true, this is simple extortion (which academia is in general, but this is next-level).

 

[honey0102]

This is so ridiculous that I'm almost having a hard time believing it. If true, this is simple extortion (which academia is in general, but this is next-level).

I'm not making it up. Maybe she doesn't mean to ever publish it and hence the no authorship??? Not sure why someone would do a case report and not publish but then again as someone who doesn't do much research, I'm not entirely sure. Or maybe she isn't sure if she would publish it? I could give her the benefit of the doubt I guess but emphasize that IF it's published, I too get named.

 

[operaman]

This makes no sense.

Did she actually say outright that she’s going to publish this and wants you to do the lit review for the paper and stated clearly you would not be an author on any paper? Or was it an interesting case she’s maybe thinking about writing up and asked you to do a quick lit review and see what else has been published about it?

I’m thinking the latter. Having students review literature and write up a brief review is pretty standard and I believe may even be an LCME requirement. The short notice is a bit odd and I would interpret that to mean this simply needs to be a very brief review, an hour of work tops start to finish.

It’s been a little bit but I recall doing something like this on most third year clerkships. For IM I reviewed anabolic steroids and THC in malnutrition, for surgery I reviewed the big trials in carotid stenosis, for OB I looked at pregnancy in the critical care setting, for psych it was TCMS, for family I can’t remember what I did. For my sub is I did a LOT of these things. Usually they were ppts and given as a 5 minute presentation to our whole team. A few were written and emailed to preceptor. It was so ubiquitous and I really think I’ve seen it listed as an LCME required element.

I’d Do a very brief review and get back to Shelf study.

 

[NITRAS]

A healthy skepticism is not malignant. With few exceptions, I would say most of us who have taken a contrarian view to the OP have done so respectfully and added some additional perspective for discussion. Venting here is almost guaranteed to get feedback that disagrees with you and I would argue that is what makes this forum so valuable.

Those of us who’ve been around a little bit have seen countless examples of stories where a student or resident claimed abuse and malignant behavior but in reality were themselves the problem. For example, there was a psych resident who got some press a couple years back claiming her program fired her for taking time off for her cancer treatment. Sounds horrible right? Thankfully she sued and we eventually got to see her program’s side in public filings and holy crap she seemed like the worst resident ever who should have been canned long before her diagnosis. There was the whole Eugene Gu debacle where he very publicly alleged harassment and mistreatment but then turned out to be full of crap and with a rather seedy track record himself. Then there was the Med student at Case expelled as an MS4 who told a sad story of mistreatment but court filings ultimately showed he had been a tool for a long time and absolutely had it coming.

All this to say: there’s always another side to every story. Hard to say what we would all think if we shadowed OP for a week and witnessed this firsthand. Maybe we would agree it’s excessive. Maybe this attending really is having students scribe and then committing Medicare fraud by billing for those notes without proper attestation and oversight. Or maybe it’s someone who wants to be a good teacher and is doing her best while not realizing it’s A little too much in light of a looming IM shelf exam.

These situations need to be handled carefully not only for OP’s grade, but also because this attending may actually want to be a good teacher and raking her over the coals could turn her into just another checked out doc who gives everyone 3s and ignores students entirely. You’re all going to run into staff who aren’t quite giving you what you need educationally and there’s an art to how you approach giving feedback so they will improve. Done well, I’ve seen kind feedback turn one of the worst teaching attendings ever into one of the best I’ve worked with - almost overnight. Be kind, assume they mean well, and work through the proper channels.

I may be late, but I just wanted to add that so often it feels like med students do things just to improve their applications for residency at the expense of self improvement. At the end of the day, no one gives a rat's hind end about your shelf scores. I don't remember mine. The things, like seeing 15 patients with the same complaint give you the opportunity to act like a real physician. Now, I'm not saying the OP's preceptor is not abusing their medical student for labor if the things they say are true (and it is hard to swallow). I just feel frustrated when medical students zone out on things that relate to actual patient care because it won't help them become x spancy specialty that makes zillions of dollars and works 30 hours a week.

 

[Frogger27]

OP are you sure you did not misunderstand, and the preceptor wants you to do a case presentation/review the topic and talk about it??

There is no way they could expect you to do a publication worthy, literature review in one night and not get authorship. All of that doesn’t make any sense.

I am pretty sure I go to the same school as you- feel free to message me if you want to talk at all. I’m sorry you’re going through such a hard time- I know a lot of people gonna through a tough time third year and it isn’t unique to our school. Keep your head up and keep going, you have two weeks off after this shelf exam.

 

[honey0102]

This makes no sense.

Did she actually say outright that she’s going to publish this and wants you to do the lit review for the paper and stated clearly you would not be an author on any paper? Or was it an interesting case she’s maybe thinking about writing up and asked you to do a quick lit review and see what else has been published about it?

I’m thinking the latter. Having students review literature and write up a brief review is pretty standard and I believe may even be an LCME requirement. The short notice is a bit odd and I would interpret that to mean this simply needs to be a very brief review, an hour of work tops start to finish.

It’s been a little bit but I recall doing something like this on most third year clerkships. For IM I reviewed anabolic steroids and THC in malnutrition, for surgery I reviewed the big trials in carotid stenosis, for OB I looked at pregnancy in the critical care setting, for psych it was TCMS, for family I can’t remember what I did. For my sub is I did a LOT of these things. Usually they were ppts and given as a 5 minute presentation to our whole team. A few were written and emailed to preceptor. It was so ubiquitous and I really think I’ve seen it listed as an LCME required element.

I’d Do a very brief review and get back to Shelf study.

No, didnt outright mention publishing hence my earlier post about giving her the benefit of the doubt but, if she wants to publish, then I ask for authorship.
Our school has other assignments to meet LCME reqs. This isn't one of them. Yup, did do a brief review-then back to shelf-fingers crossed it's all she wanted. I did do stuff like this earlier in this + other clerkships-not just school required LCME things but also just of my own volition. What I got today, was more in-depth and intense than that. But I did my best with a few hours of review (certainly learned a ton) and just hope it's enough

 

[honey0102]

I may be late, but I just wanted to add that so often it feels like med students do things just to improve their applications for residency at the expense of self improvement. At the end of the day, no one gives a rat's hind end about your shelf scores. I don't remember mine. The things, like seeing 15 patients with the same complaint give you the opportunity to act like a real physician. Now, I'm not saying the OP's preceptor is not abusing their medical student for labor if the things they say are true (and it is hard to swallow). I just feel frustrated when medical students zone out on things that relate to actual patient care because it won't help them become x spancy specialty that makes zillions of dollars and works 30 hours a week.

I'm not zoning out-not sure where you got that from. I am seeing a ton of patients and coming up w/ my own A/P's. It just is, at the end of the day I want to be able to do *a decent* amount of shelf studying-note, not saying all my time=shelf prep. Rotations are a balance of clinicals vs studying (else why include shelf exams at all?) and when the balance is tipped too far-in either direction-at the expense of the entity on the other side of the balance it isn't good.
I also don't appreciate the assumption that I'm "zoning out on things that relate to actual patient care because it won't help become x spancy specialty that makes zillions of dollars and works 30 hours a week."...I am working really hard here.

 

[honey0102]

OP are you sure you did not misunderstand, and the preceptor wants you to do a case presentation/review the topic and talk about it??

There is no way they could expect you to do a publication worthy, literature review in one night and not get authorship. All of that doesn’t make any sense.

I am pretty sure I go to the same school as you- feel free to message me if you want to talk at all. I’m sorry you’re going through such a hard time- I know a lot of people gonna through a tough time third year and it isn’t unique to our school. Keep your head up and keep going, you have two weeks off after this shelf exam.

Yes...wanted a case report...the one thing is she didn't mention explicitly publishing but did want a case report.
Again I'm confused about why one would do all the formalities of a case report and not publish but going to bring it up tomorrow to clarify. The no authorship thing makes me wonder...
The case was complicated, a bare bones lit review would not do it justice so I put a lot of effort into it. She also did go over some of what she wanted and it def wasn't a breeze. Again totally happy to do it...but a few days before shelf...it's stressful when added on top of multi-shifts.
Going to clarify tomorrow about the publishing.
I'm wondering if she forgot that shelf is on Friday...or if she is mistaken and thinks we get the full day before shelf off (as some but not this clerkship do)

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Might have been ok had it not been leading up to shelf and when I'm already working extra shifts scribing for other doctors.
I'm starting to think I'll need to see a mental health counselor...the stress from this rotation is interfering way too much...I've literally stopped being happy about things I used to be happy about. All I can think of is how stressed I am due to lack of study time, trying to meet their demands. I'm never going to be able to scribe for multiple doctors, do their research for them, and also somehow pass shelf.

3 more days. Just get thru it, one at a time and goto town on the eval. You can do 3 more. I suggest asking off the afternoon of thursday.

 

[AMEHigh]

I think part of the disconnect here is that I’m having trouble imagining any attending just blindly signing off on a Med student note. Usually it takes just as long to edit a student note as it does to write my own. Same goes for orders and anything else - I’ll often have a sub-I “do” notes and orders under my login without signing anything so they can get a little preview of intern year but even with very advanced students it takes soooo much longer for me to review everything (And answer all their questions) than it does to do it myself. I think there is incredible educational value though in giving students some exposure to the scut that makes patient care happen in a modern hospital, but in no way does it save me any time or work. Same goes for July interns - lord knows we all spend a ton of time checking behind them and ensuring they don’t hurt anyone. It takes a long time before they actually make a net positive impact on the overall workload.

I often don’t have students write any notes because reviewing it and editing it takes a LOT longer than just using my own template. I’ll have them write a couple so they can learn but holy crap the idea of having to review a full 30+ patient clinic worth of student notes would probably land me in the nuthouse. I’ll bet this attending is doing a LOT of notes and editing at home like most docs I know.

If they are truly just blindly signing your notes then that’s a bigger issue. Given how invested she seems to be in your learning, I doubt this is what’s actually happening.

Have you looked at some other attendings notes lately?! They are pretty shltty! Lol.

I do agree that generally med students slow things down so I certainly don’t have them do the bulk of seeing patients or writing notes.

OP, yes it seems like this rotation needs to change. I would stop focusing on the need to study for the shelf though if you’re going to complain to the school. I would just focus on the fact that you’re used to write notes with no educational value. Have you asked the attending if you can leave when she leaves? What does the attending say?

 

[deleted994247]

If you have some time read this.
View attachment 289219
[/QUOTE]

lol i doubt reading man's search for meaning is going to help this person right now. that book is best read after recovering from burnout. Right now they need to focus on getting as much R&R as possible.

 

[libertyyne]

If you have some time read this.
View attachment 289219

lol i doubt reading man's search for meaning is going to help this person right now. that book is best read after recovering from burnout. Right now they need to focus on getting as much R&R as possible.
[/QUOTE]
thanks, didnt realize premeds were experts in burnout.
No one told OP not to get R&R, but its not like OP has full control over their schedule.