Civilian deferrals

[idq1i]

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Is there anything one can do to maximize the chance of being granted a civilian deferment in the Army?

I signed the HPSP contract with the full understing of that I may have to do a residency with the Army. I accept this fact and I look forward to service after my residency. However, I would still like to do a civ. residency. I am aware of the financial advantages of Army's GME, but I am more than willing to forego those to do what I really want to do

I know that the needs of the Army trump my wishes, but I have still heard many rumors about people getting their way in the military match

 

[Mirror Form]

Is there anything one can do to maximize the chance of being granted a civilian deferment in the Army?

I signed the HPSP contract with the full understing of that I may have to do a residency with the Army. I accept this fact and I look forward to service after my residency. However, I would still like to do a civ. residency. I am aware of the financial advantages of Army's GME, but I am more than willing to forego those to do what I really want to do

I know that the needs of the Army trump my wishes, but I have still heard many rumors about people getting their way in the military match

You can't apply for a civilian deferment directly in the Army. The only way you can do a civilian residency is if you don't match in the military match. So, if you're applying to a competitive field that usually fills up, you could gamble by not interviewing at any army residencies which would assure you wouldn't get accepted. Then you'd automatically be deferred to the civilian residency. However, you might get stuck in the least desirable residency slot as well, so it's kind of risky.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

1) Make sure you're going into a field that gets deferrals. Some do, some don't. Mine (EM in the AF) defers about half of its people, and trains the other half in its 2 programs. If your field doesn't get deferrals (primary care) forget about it.
1.5) Rotate at a military program, get to know the faculty, get good letters. (The most important thing is to get your specialty, not your deferrment.)
2) GO OUT AND INTERVIEW AT THE PROGRAMS IN YOUR SPECIALTY. SKIP THE PHONE INTERVIEW. YOU NEED TO MEET THE PROGRAM DIRECTORS (WHO MAKE THE MATCH DECISIONS IN THE MILITARY MATCH) IN PERSON. Tell them "you would be willing to train in a military program but that you would prefer a civilian deferment." Be pleasant, but persistent.
3) Rock the boards. I don't know why the military cares about them so much, but they do.
4) In your thank you notes to the program directors who interviewed you, mention again your preferences
5) Be sure to assemble your rank list like this:
1- Civilian deferral
2- Your favorite military program
3- Your second favorite military program
4- etc
5- DO NOT LIST ANOTHER SPECIALTY. IF THEY NEED IT, THEY'LL PUT YOU IN IT.

6) Pray.

 

[idq1i]

6) Pray.

Haha! I heard that one more than once 🙂

While it is very early, primary care fields are out for me (ie. peds, IM, ob, psych, etc). I have Rads, gas, EM, ortho on my mind.

I have worked hard to honor every class this year, and I don't know if it really makes a difference for the selection boards. Does it actually make my candidacy more desirable to the military GME people? Should I "dumb" it down a bit?

 

[Mirror Form]

Should I "dumb" it down a bit?

don't make me smack you!

 

[idq1i]

don't make me smack you!

LOL, that's not the way I meant it 😀

 

[bobbyseal]

This seems to be the one benefit of going with the Navy...

Since its GME programs are smaller, they're often looking to defer people to do civie residencies, but the caveat is that the deferments are only in critically manned (nice gender-biased term, huh?) specialties (rad's, gas, surg, surg subspec's, etc.).

From what I hear, the best way to get a civie deferment is to put that choice as #1 in your military rank list, and then you need to show them that you can match at a high quality academic institution. If the military doesn't think you can match at a good academic hospital, they're not going to let you defer.

I heard from a student who defered that she just started sending copies of all her civie interview offers to the military GME board showing them that she's being invited to places like MGH, Columbia, Hopkins, Vandy, Baylor, Chicago, Stanford, etc. It worked for her, but then again, her interview offers were from great programs, not East Bumble-F, ND.

 

[Navy Dive Doc]

I hate to burst your bubble Bobbyseal, but the Navy offers the least civilian deferments of any of the branches. The Navy still wants lots of GMOs, so most people get internships in Naval Hospitals or 1 year, internship only deferments. You're right, they defer in undermanned specialties but not to the same degree as the Army/AF. Remember, too, that current GMOs also have priority for civilian deferments for those specialties, if they're willing to take the pay cut. Plan on being a Navy intern and be pleasantly surprised if it turns out otherwise.

 

[bobbyseal]

That may not be the case there Dive Doc...

The class of 2005 has a large number of students. Because of that they're allotting approximately 80 deferals, up from 70. This info was sent to us by the lady who does GME coordination.

Now, I'm not sure the numbers given out by the Army/Air Force, but 80 sounds pretty good to me.

 

[Masonator]

The problem with this thread is that the OP asked about Army deferrals and the answers given were for NAVY and AF deferrals.

The second problem with this thread is that the "authorities" on deferrals sound like they haven't even matched into a residency yet. You may want to talk to your GME office boys! The rules for deferrals are changing as we speak. You guys may be in for a cruel surprise come match day unless you get your information straight.

 

[idq1i]

The problem with this thread is that the OP asked about Army deferrals and the answers given were for NAVY and AF deferrals.

True, but if it works for the Navy, it should definitely work for the Army. My question was vague enough.

 

[Masonator]

True, but if it works for the Navy, it should definitely work for the Army. My question was vague enough.

Wrong, Wrong, Wrong, Wrong, Wrong! You aren't even allowed to rank deferred #1 in the Army match. Your getting advice from HPSP gunners who aren't even close to matching. Feel free to ignore it. I would listen to Navy Dive Doc over those guys any day. Last time I checked Navy was GMOing a lot of people. You have to want to go into a specialty that they need and have a short supply of, then you have to outcompete the GMO pool for the deferral. Then there is the fact that they change the rules every year. Plus, you aren't even in the Navy. If you want to learn more about deferments in the Army, then pm me.

 

[Mirror Form]

You aren't even allowed to rank deferred #1 in the Army match. Your getting advice from HPSP gunners who aren't even close to matching. Feel free to ignore it.

Hey now, I resent that. If you bothered reading the very first reply to Idq1's post you'd see that I am army and already told him that you can't rank deferred as #1 in the army. Yes I may also be an applicant, but I can still quote the colonel who's in charge army's GME.

 

[idq1i]

Masonator,
No, no! You misunderstood me. What I meant was "things in your application that military GME people like to see before granting deferrals."

I did not mean to suggest that the services are the same

 

[Masonator]

Hey now, I resent that. If you bothered reading the very first reply to Idq1's post you'd see that I am army and already told him that you can't rank deferred as #1 in the army. Yes I may also be an applicant, but I can still quote the colonel who's in charge army's GME.

I accidentaly lumped you in with the other to responders. Your post was right on. Sorry about that.

 

[bobbyseal]

Hey Mason,

Relax buddy... I'm just trying to pass along information that I have gleaned from the higher ups at the Naval School of the Health Sciences. Yes, this may not have been relevant to the OP request of info on Army deferals, but the title of his/her thread was Civilian deferals. Thus, I thought it would be good to pass along what I know related to another service.

I would have to agree with you that getting a deferal is a difficult thing, but people do get them coming out of medical school. In addition I offered up an example of a student who did get a deferal and matched in a competitive specialty, and I tried to show some of the things that she did to get it.

 

[Masonator]

Hey Mason,

Relax buddy... I'm just trying to pass along information that I have gleaned from the higher ups at the Naval School of the Health Sciences. Yes, this may not have been relevant to the OP request of info on Army deferals, but the title of his/her thread was Civilian deferals. Thus, I thought it would be good to pass along what I know related to another service.

I would have to agree with you that getting a deferal is a difficult thing, but people do get them coming out of medical school. In addition I offered up an example of a student who did get a deferal and matched in a competitive specialty, and I tried to show some of the things that she did to get it.

Now it's personal...

 

[The White Coat Investor]

As near as I can tell, I'm the only person in this thread who has successfully gotten a civilian deferral. So be careful what you accuse people of. I'm sorry (and admittedly was unaware that) the army doesn't allow you to rank deferred as #1, but hey, that wasn't the only reason I didn't go army.

 

[Navy Dive Doc]

Settle down there, people, these threads are always answered from a Triservice perspective (or at least Army/Navy, we seem short of AF types). Pick out what's relevant for your situation.

Bobbyseal, I hope you're right. Let me correct myself, the Navy probably does offer the most civilian deferments. But remember, those 70-80 deferments will be mostly 1 year internship deferments to breed new GMOs. They have been every other year since the dawn of time. They gave out about 50 deferments my internship year, and about 5 of those were full deferments for specialties. Those 10 extra spots this year might be full residency positions, or they may simply be accomodating a large HPSP class and projecting a need for more GMOs (USMC deployments are brisk at the moment, to put it lightly). Gun hard for what you want, more power to you, but I'm just trying to warn everyone to have a realistic expectation that, if you're Navy, you are likely headed for a GMO tour. Don't put all you eggs in the deferment basket. At a minimum, rotate at one of the hospitals and find an acceptable military internship, so you're not screwed during the GMESB.

Masonator, are you trying to start the Hatin' over here, too? Watch out, we have weapons on this forum 😀

 

[militarymd]

You guys should listen to NDD. He is in the thick of military medicine. He knows the system, which really doesn't change that much from year to year.

 

[Masonator]

Settle down there, people, these threads are always answered from a Triservice perspective (or at least Army/Navy, we seem short of AF types). Pick out what's relevant for your situation.

Bobbyseal, I hope you're right. Let me correct myself, the Navy probably does offer the most civilian deferments. But remember, those 70-80 deferments will be mostly 1 year internship deferments to breed new GMOs. They have been every other year since the dawn of time. They gave out about 50 deferments my internship year, and about 5 of those were full deferments for specialties. Those 10 extra spots this year might be full residency positions, or they may simply be accomodating a large HPSP class and projecting a need for more GMOs (USMC deployments are brisk at the moment, to put it lightly). Gun hard for what you want, more power to you, but I'm just trying to warn everyone to have a realistic expectation that, if you're Navy, you are likely headed for a GMO tour. Don't put all you eggs in the deferment basket. At a minimum, rotate at one of the hospitals and find an acceptable military internship, so you're not screwed during the GMESB.

Masonator, are you trying to start the Hatin' over here, too? Watch out, we have weapons on this forum 😀

Let me see your weapons!!!

 

[Masonator]

As near as I can tell, I'm the only person in this thread who has successfully gotten a civilian deferral. So be careful what you accuse people of. I'm sorry (and admittedly was unaware that) the army doesn't allow you to rank deferred as #1, but hey, that wasn't the only reason I didn't go army.

I know a bunch of people(3) in my class who were not able to defer out of the AF because they were going into IM and Peds. It is so tough because none of us know about these obscure regulations when we sign on. Luckily for you, EM is like gold to the military. The demand is huge and the supply is small. The same is true for ortho and Gen Surg(bigger supply). What you said may work for AF, but Army and Navy are both different. AF may be changing their policy as well,as their deferments seem to be shrinking year to year. You should count yourself lucky.

 

[Masonator]

You guys should listen to NDD. He is in the thick of military medicine. He knows the system, which really doesn't change that much from year to year.

Military MD, you've been quiet lately. I miss your laconic, irreverent musings!
Surely you have something to gripe about!


Here is one to start you off. An acquaintence of mine is going into Peds(AF). He failed to defer, and was stationed at Travis. After he matched there, they told them that they were cutting his residency program. After his intern year, his program was closing. There was no plan for his continued training at this time, although they were "working on it."

 

[wunnava]

The surest way to do a civilian residency if you are on an HPSP is to be a GMO and then get out and do the residency.

 

[bobbyseal]

Hey Dive Doc,

Actually the one year deferments are going to decrease from about 30 given out a year to 20 now.

Also, doing the RAD (regular active duty) to NADDS program kind of stinks. Unless you're doing something like Derm, optho, Rads, or gas which match at the pgy-2 level, you'll have to scramble for an open pgy-2 spot as most programs train their own interns inclusive with the residency. Good luck finding an open pgy-2 ortho spot!

Again, this is all info from the lady who does GME with the Navy.

 

[Navy Dive Doc]

Good to hear about the deferments for those who want them. Remember, it's been awhile since I was a 4th year, so I'm a reference for "the way it's been". This will probably be the trend, as the Navy is looking to get out of the residency training business eventually (at least while Rumsfeld is around). As for GMO's, the Navy will preselect people for deferments so they can enter the regular match at the same time as 4th years and match for a class 2 years later. That way, you're not hunting for a pgy-2 spot open, but matching for one to begin after your 4th year med-student fellow applicants have finished their internships.

 

[NJEMT1]

An acquaintence of mine is going into Peds(AF). He failed to defer, and was stationed at Travis. After he matched there, they told them that they were cutting his residency program. After his intern year, his program was closing. There was no plan for his continued training at this time, although they were "working on it."

That's terrible. Please keep us posted as to what happens with this person's situation. I hope something can be worked out for the residents in that program.

 

[Masonator]

That's terrible. Please keep us posted as to what happens with this person's situation. I hope something can be worked out for the residents in that program.

They might farm him out to a civillian program starting PGY2. However he is basically in a situation of finding an open program somewhere, just like someone in a prelim year.