Civilian residency after GMO advice

[snowbardingandlabs]

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This is an amazing thread, thank you all. I am a 3 year GMO applying for advanced positions on ERAS right now. ::fingers crossed::

What is everyones opinion on what to wear to interviews? It seems for FTOS it would make sense to wear your uniform but for civilian residencies with which you are planning to resign from the military, that civilian suit would be best. I don't want to do anything that would put me at a disadvantage, any thoughts?

 

[WernickeDO]

This is an amazing thread, thank you all. I am a 3 year GMO applying for advanced positions on ERAS right now. ::fingers crossed::

What is everyones opinion on what to wear to interviews? It seems for FTOS it would make sense to wear your uniform but for civilian residencies with which you are planning to resign from the military, that civilian suit would be best. I don't want to do anything that would put me at a disadvantage, any thoughts?

I was planning on a civilian suit. Not sure what those who have gone before us have done.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Wear a suit unless FTIS.

 

[Navy1234]

Suit.

 

[WernickeDO]

I recently had a successful civilian match and I wanted to add a few tips that I feel led to the success. It should go without saying that your academic house has to be in order and that you have a realistic shot at whatever specialty that you are going for. You’re not going to get derm as a mediocre candidate just because someone makes a phone call for you. These are things that can help get your foot in the door, but your overall app has to push it open. This is all obviously my opinion only.

About me: Internship in general surgery followed by 4 years as a flight doc.



Networking: One of the significant disadvantages that you will have as a GMO applicant is your lack of ability to easily do an away rotation or have a “home” institution. You have to counter this by doing some aggressive networking. You should plan to attend whatever your desired specialty's national conference is in the months leading up to application season. If there is a residency fair going on attending that should be your top priority, with several programs already scouted and you prepared to shake hands and leave a good impression. If you still have contacts from med school, either someone who was a student with you or staff that you worked with, get touch with them and let them know that you are getting out of the military and are looking to get back in to residency training. They may be willing to make a phone call or perhaps help set up a rotation on your behalf. A rotation will be difficult to arrange given your licensed status but not impossible: I have spoken to other former GMOs who cold-called programs and were able to set up a rotation. If you can get a friend who is on good terms with their PD and they are willing to call them up and sell you, then take advantage of that.



Try to get stationed at an area with either a civilian or military training program nearby: You may or may not have much control over this and it will vary depending on what you are going for. The reason for the close proximity is so that you can stay close to your specialty by attending conference or even rotating at the MTF if possible. Even if you have chosen to not reapply in the military, chances are the residency would be okay with you attending their education day. The same goes for a local civilian program: don’t be afraid to call the program coordinator, tell them your situation (bored GMO planning on applying to specialty X and you would love to come to conference so as to stay close to specialty X). Never hurts to ask and they may be willing to accommodate someone who is valiantly defending freedom. Plus, if you decide to apply to the local program they have some time to get to know you, and you are showing your interest by showing up on your own time. A rotation at the civilian program is unlikely (see above) but you should have some credentials at the local MTF and may be allowed to hang out in the ED, OR, L&D, or whatever. So, if you are given the offer to PCS to either Wainwright or Bliss, you are probably better off at Bliss, even if the outdoor life is better at Wainwright.



Use your GMO time wisely: If possible, get a flight physical and get into an aviation unit, as they tend to be smaller battalions than regular infantry or support battalions (in the Army at least). I am with one of the bigger battalions in the brigade and I still have ample time to put towards medical pursuits. Remember: a GMO is not a medical job and you have to fight to stay close to medicine. Write up a case study or a podcast script, keep up with reading in your specialty, and try to work at your local MTF by volunteering a half-day a week. Not only will this help to keep your sanity intact but it will a) help you to confirm that this is a specialty you want to go into; b) help you to learn and maintain clinical skills; and c) show interest. There will be plenty of time too for golf and long lunches, but put your medical career first.



Get a side-hustle: If the extra money isn’t interesting to you, then the maintenance of clinical skills and getting used to autonomous decision making should. Since you have to be licensed anyway you may as well get licensed in your state. Depending on the state you’re in you may be limited in what you can do.



If you are a DO applicant, strongly consider taking at least Step 1 USMLE: If you are reading this and are currently in med school, then definitely plan on taking both. I know that the military doesn’t require it, but things can change and you may not train in the military. You will be glad you got it done when you were studying for Level 1. If you are already graduated, stuck in GMO-land, and considering applying to ACGME residencies, take the damn test. I did not, and while I did have success this cycle I feel I would have had more interviews if I had a USMLE score to report. I do not know the details surrounding this but this is something worth exploring. ACGME programs are going to want to see USMLE scores, with the possible exception of PM&R residencies, per @j4pac .



Those are the general tips that I want to offer. Depending on your specialty there will be other quirks to work around. For example, in EM the standardized letter of evaluation (SLOE) has become the a top evaluation tool for extending interview invites, pretty much on par with grade and boards. It will be very difficult to get a training-program SLOE as a GMO so you may need to do some cold-calling to find a place that will let you rotate.



Chances are the military is very happy to keep you in an admin job, and your bosses have no idea about how to land a civilian residency. Civilian PDs don't care about your DA photo, your most recent OER, or your skills as a Powerpoint Ranger. They want to know if you have the interest, drive, and ability to complete their training program. This all falls on you to attend to, so I hope these tips are helpful. You must fight to maintain your medical career. Hang on to hope, it can be done. Good luck!

 

[Clap MD]

Congrats @WernickeDO on your match. My experience on the interview trail was that people were genuinely interested in/surprised by what I'd been doing for that past 3.5 years. I'd second the notion that having a program-of-interest near your base is very helpful. I nosed my way in (with a LOT of help from networking) to give a departmental grand rounds where I wanted to eventually match and it was well-received. A lot of the residents/faculty remembered it on interview day and I ended up matching there last week.

Time spent as a GMO is a detour at best, and may be a derailment in more cases. But knowing how to work it to your advantage going in is invaluable.

 

[BadMedicalAdvice]

@WernickeDO , I am just waking up to the reality of this process, and am committing to myself and to this struggle starting now. Would appreciate your advice:

Me: D.O. GMO finishing year 2 of 4. Moving from operational billet to East Coast shore duty. Targeting Emergency Medicine 3-year ACGME programs. COMLEX I 500-510 (40th percentile), COMLEX II 550-560 (60th percentile). Class rank a bit below average. One published case study during GMO time.

Questions: I am worried that my basic science knowledge has dropped. Would you recommend running through First Aid, Pathoma, EM Casefiles, UWorld, or any other review materials? Would you recommend prioritizing getting published again or getting corpsmen to move forward with poster presentations or research? Ever since realizing that military residency was not my goal, I have regretted not taking the USMLE. Do you think it's crazy to take USMLE Step I three years after graduation (I imagine plenty of FMGs do...)? What kind of activities at a nearby academic program could I target? Research? Grandrounds? Would it be crazy for a physician to request permissive TDY to complete an audition rotation for a SLOE? I was not set on Emergency Medicine until well after graduation--How might one get a SLOE without four weeks to give?

Thank you @j4pac @Wernicke @Clap MD and all others who've contributed. I'm writing out my plan to match the one provided, steps and all.

 

[mslall]

Great post. Thanks.

I have 9 months left. 4 years as flight surgeon overseas was good time but I'm ready to exit.

I am applying to civilian residency currently. Did not do the advanced option. I would like to hear the experience of those that applied to categorical PGY2 for the upcoming year (not advanced).

Are people really getting paid TDY to do interviews for a civilian job? How about permissive TDY for interviews?

For those that were overseas during interview season, how did you schedule interviews? Trying to lump them all into one 10-14day visit seems to be the most feasible.

I don't know about getting full TDY. The government isn't going to pay for your flights, lodging, and per diem for your to go and interview. But you can get permissive TDY approved which won't eat up any leave you have.

 

[j4pac]

@WernickeDO , I am just waking up to the reality of this process, and am committing to myself and to this struggle starting now. Would appreciate your advice:

Me: D.O. GMO finishing year 2 of 4. Moving from operational billet to East Coast shore duty. Targeting Emergency Medicine 3-year ACGME programs. COMLEX I 500-510 (40th percentile), COMLEX II 550-560 (60th percentile). Class rank a bit below average. One published case study during GMO time.

Questions: I am worried that my basic science knowledge has dropped. Would you recommend running through First Aid, Pathoma, EM Casefiles, UWorld, or any other review materials? Would you recommend prioritizing getting published again or getting corpsmen to move forward with poster presentations or research? Ever since realizing that military residency was not my goal, I have regretted not taking the USMLE. Do you think it's crazy to take USMLE Step I three years after graduation (I imagine plenty of FMGs do...)? What kind of activities at a nearby academic program could I target? Research? Grandrounds? Would it be crazy for a physician to request permissive TDY to complete an audition rotation for a SLOE? I was not set on Emergency Medicine until well after graduation--How might one get a SLOE without four weeks to give?

Thank you @j4pac @Wernicke @Clap MD and all others who've contributed. I'm writing out my plan to match the one provided, steps and all.

I know a prior GMO who did the civilian EM route after his tour. If you’re interested, send me a PM and I could try to connect you with him. Id definitely look at the requirements of the specialty. Some honor your internship from years ago, but others may not. You then would have to decide whether to repeat an internship or not. I’m doing PM&R at a pretty medical heavy program, but I’ve been fine. That may not be the case with other specialties that expect you to hit the ground running without working off rust like IM or Surgery. I suppose you could moonlight and be ready for ED, but I’d talk to people who have traveled the path before.

 

[backrow]

EM now has a requirement that only 3 years may elapse between internship and residency or you have to redo internship. (This is not a military rule). The only positive is that some EM programs are 3 years so you could go to one of those and still “only” have done 4 years of GME training.

 

[WernickeDO]

@WernickeDO , I am just waking up to the reality of this process, and am committing to myself and to this struggle starting now. Would appreciate your advice:

Me: D.O. GMO finishing year 2 of 4. Moving from operational billet to East Coast shore duty. Targeting Emergency Medicine 3-year ACGME programs. COMLEX I 500-510 (40th percentile), COMLEX II 550-560 (60th percentile). Class rank a bit below average. One published case study during GMO time.

Questions: I am worried that my basic science knowledge has dropped. Would you recommend running through First Aid, Pathoma, EM Casefiles, UWorld, or any other review materials? Would you recommend prioritizing getting published again or getting corpsmen to move forward with poster presentations or research? Ever since realizing that military residency was not my goal, I have regretted not taking the USMLE. Do you think it's crazy to take USMLE Step I three years after graduation (I imagine plenty of FMGs do...)? What kind of activities at a nearby academic program could I target? Research? Grandrounds? Would it be crazy for a physician to request permissive TDY to complete an audition rotation for a SLOE? I was not set on Emergency Medicine until well after graduation--How might one get a SLOE without four weeks to give?

Thank you @j4pac @Wernicke @Clap MD and all others who've contributed. I'm writing out my plan to match the one provided, steps and all.

Hello,

In my opinion it's worth taking the USMLE, especially if you are primarily targeting MD residencies. Just my opinion but I got feedback during my application cycle that my packet would have been more competitive had I taken the USMLE. Don't sleep on those DO residencies either. Many of them are switching the 3 years.

Anything you do to show interest in EM is worthwhile, whether that's publications, posters, side jobs at an urgent care, etc.

If there is a nearby academic program get in contact with the residency coordinator and ask if you can sit in on their conference days. Build from there into more.

I think TDY for rotations is a stretch, but the worst they can say is no. A rotation is probably the only way you're going to get a SLOE and that's going to be challenging...your license makes medical malpractice tricky.

Good luck.

 

[MilHemeOnc]

Does anyone have any advice on how hard it would be to find a PGY-2 spot for Internal Medicine? I would like to go to a university program if possible. Alternatively, would I be at a disadvantage applying to categorical Internal Medicine spots compared to US Seniors?

I'm trying to decide whether just doing Navy residency is worth an additional 2 year ADSO, versus getting out and possibly having to repeat intern year for internal medicine.

 

[Slevin]

Does anyone have any advice on how hard it would be to find a PGY-2 spot for Internal Medicine? I would like to go to a university program if possible. Alternatively, would I be at a disadvantage applying to categorical Internal Medicine spots compared to US Seniors?

I'm trying to decide whether just doing Navy residency is worth an additional 2 year ADSO, versus getting out and possibly having to repeat intern year for internal medicine.

If you do a GMO and out I think you’ll be hard pressed to find a residency that didn’t want you to repeat some of not all of intern year.

 

[Gastrapathy]

If you do a GMO and out I think you’ll be hard pressed to find a residency that didn’t want you to repeat some of not all of intern year.

And more importantly, you should. You don’t want to fail and jumping in as a R2 having been out of touch is hard. Military programs are used to that transition but an outside program would not be. It’s better to learn the hospital, EMR, etc while you have intern level responsibilities. You really want to succeed.

 

[j4pac]

I did all my interviews this year with my dress blues (was recommended by some of my mentors and a peer who matched last year; we'll both be doing PM&R). I got a lot of great feedback from attendings, nurses, etc. and I felt it was somewhat of an advantage as it did make me stand out from crowds of applicants... However it did draw attention and at times felt too uncomfortable.

I’ve seen it both ways...I honestly don’t think the uniform makes a big difference. If it gives you confidence, then why not. I personally didn’t want to intimidate my competition or interviewers so I went with a suit. They were impressed with the military service without the garb

 

[globaldoc31]

Does anyone have any experience applying for IM fellowships after fulfilling their obligation?

 

[Gastrapathy]

For GI, it’s been a mixed bag. I helped a few folks apply with about a 60% success rate. If you were competitive in the .mil, you should be fine.

 

[obgflightdoc]

Hoping to awaken this post again... thanks to everyone who left advice and experiences- I've read it all.

I have 18 months left and will be stationed in Japan for the duration. Planning to apply to the 2021 match this summer for OBGYN Categorical (no OBGYN Advanced spots). M.D. with categorical OBGYN internship at NMCSD.

The Bad: I have little (no?) opportunity to network in person, AND I will be deployed during the 2020 annual ACOG meeting, likely until DEC. I do not have a nearby MTF with OBGYN. Additionally, I want to apply to a very limited geographical area as spouse is AD Air Force and I'd like to see her at least once in a blue moon.
The Good: 85th-95th percentile STEP scores, good class ranking, AOA, have maintained a relationship with internship PD and APD, have demonstrated ongoing interest in OBGYN as a FS (running contraceptive clinics, women's health working groups, etc.)

Questions for those who have been through ERAS:
--Is it possible to punt all interviews until January? I literally cannot interview before then. Other suggestions for navigating this conundrum?
--My APD is happy to reach out to programs (Emory?!?) on my behalf, but, what should I ask her to do/ what should I expect to do?
--Is there a chance in hell of this working???

TIA.

 

[j4pac]

Hoping to awaken this post again... thanks to everyone who left advice and experiences- I've read it all.

I have 18 months left and will be stationed in Japan for the duration. Planning to apply to the 2021 match this summer for OBGYN Categorical (no OBGYN Advanced spots). M.D. with categorical OBGYN internship at NMCSD.

The Bad: I have little (no?) opportunity to network in person, AND I will be deployed during the 2020 annual ACOG meeting, likely until DEC. I do not have a nearby MTF with OBGYN. Additionally, I want to apply to a very limited geographical area as spouse is AD Air Force and I'd like to see her at least once in a blue moon.
The Good: 85th-95th percentile STEP scores, good class ranking, AOA, have maintained a relationship with internship PD and APD, have demonstrated ongoing interest in OBGYN as a FS (running contraceptive clinics, women's health working groups, etc.)

Questions for those who have been through ERAS:
--Is it possible to punt all interviews until January? I literally cannot interview before then. Other suggestions for navigating this conundrum?
--My APD is happy to reach out to programs (Emory?!?) on my behalf, but, what should I ask her to do/ what should I expect to do?
--Is there a chance in hell of this working???

TIA.

Yes, you can make it work. It is a challenge. You have to make the decision whether or not to notify programs about your situation. Personally, I probably would. Programs want good applicants and most reasonable PDs would want to know about your limited interview availability. I’ve known a few GMOs who came from overseas and some programs are willing to do what it takes to accommodate you. I’d argue that your chance of matching at such a program is pretty high.

Programs are really busy right now with the current match cycle. It after that dies down sometime before the match I’d consider contacting the PCs of the programs you are interested in.

 

[Sweetpotatoguy]

I just matched PM&R PGY2
I’m deployed with 14 months left in my commitment. I did my interviews while I was state side with the approval from my commander. Good luck everyone!

 

[GMOnAudi5000]

Hoping to awaken this post again... thanks to everyone who left advice and experiences- I've read it all.

I have 18 months left and will be stationed in Japan for the duration. Planning to apply to the 2021 match this summer for OBGYN Categorical (no OBGYN Advanced spots). M.D. with categorical OBGYN internship at NMCSD.

The Bad: I have little (no?) opportunity to network in person, AND I will be deployed during the 2020 annual ACOG meeting, likely until DEC. I do not have a nearby MTF with OBGYN. Additionally, I want to apply to a very limited geographical area as spouse is AD Air Force and I'd like to see her at least once in a blue moon.
The Good: 85th-95th percentile STEP scores, good class ranking, AOA, have maintained a relationship with internship PD and APD, have demonstrated ongoing interest in OBGYN as a FS (running contraceptive clinics, women's health working groups, etc.)

Questions for those who have been through ERAS:
--Is it possible to punt all interviews until January? I literally cannot interview before then. Other suggestions for navigating this conundrum?
--My APD is happy to reach out to programs (Emory?!?) on my behalf, but, what should I ask her to do/ what should I expect to do?
--Is there a chance in hell of this working???

TIA.

Hoping to awaken this post again... thanks to everyone who left advice and experiences- I've read it all.

I have 18 months left and will be stationed in Japan for the duration. Planning to apply to the 2021 match this summer for OBGYN Categorical (no OBGYN Advanced spots). M.D. with categorical OBGYN internship at NMCSD.

The Bad: I have little (no?) opportunity to network in person, AND I will be deployed during the 2020 annual ACOG meeting, likely until DEC. I do not have a nearby MTF with OBGYN. Additionally, I want to apply to a very limited geographical area as spouse is AD Air Force and I'd like to see her at least once in a blue moon.
The Good: 85th-95th percentile STEP scores, good class ranking, AOA, have maintained a relationship with internship PD and APD, have demonstrated ongoing interest in OBGYN as a FS (running contraceptive clinics, women's health working groups, etc.)

Questions for those who have been through ERAS:
--Is it possible to punt all interviews until January? I literally cannot interview before then. Other suggestions for navigating this conundrum?
--My APD is happy to reach out to programs (Emory?!?) on my behalf, but, what should I ask her to do/ what should I expect to do?
--Is there a chance in hell of this working???

TIA.

This may be one of the years that is most beneficial to GMO's getting out, as standardized letters will be fewer as away rotation for MS4's are made less available, and the structure of the in-person interviews may be changing due to the COVID19 pandemic.

 

[truongpn]

Hi everyone! I came here looking for advice because I'm hoping to apply to civilian residencies after military service, but I am unclear as to the timeline.

I'm aiming for Navy HPSP and couldn't find out when/where GMO tours are supposed to be completed whether immediately after medical school or sometime after residency. Is it even an option to finish Navy HPSP of four years at my civilian med school, then complete a civilian residency and then do GMO tours? If you have any insight as to how this process works, I'd greatly appreciate it.

 

[militaryPHYS]

Hi everyone! I came here looking for advice because I'm hoping to apply to civilian residencies after military service, but I am unclear as to the timeline.

I'm aiming for Navy HPSP and couldn't find out when/where GMO tours are supposed to be completed whether immediately after medical school or sometime after residency. Is it even an option to finish Navy HPSP of four years at my civilian med school, then complete a civilian residency and then do GMO tours? If you have any insight as to how this process works, I'd greatly appreciate it.

For active duty programs GMO tours typically happen after your internship year (before real residency starts). If there are no active duty internship/residency spots available for you then you may be offered a deferment (civilian internship/residency). If you have to accept a deferment you do internship/residency straight through at a civilian program in the individual ready reserve. When you come back on to active duty to pay back your HPSP time you will be paying back as the residency-trained staff physician that you are, not as a GMO.

Spend some time searching/reading the basics on SDN. You can also try Military Service Options For Every Step of the Aspiring Physician's Path - The Military Physician

 

[j4pac]

Feels like yesterday when I put this post together. Crazy.

I'm hoping that most of this is still true. The military is notoriously slow to evolve, so I'm guessing that most of it is. If anyone sees something that is NOT accurate or relevant please let me know. I just made a few small updates. There have been some residencies that have ditched advanced positions and moved to categorical (which if you read in my post is detrimental to GMOs applying civilian).

 

[idoitforv]

Wow, what an incredible thread, thank you so much OP for providing such a wealth of information!

I have a question for the guru's on this topic, particularly my Navy people. I'm currently an MS3 on HSCP (active enlisted duty). I have read in various places (like CAPT Schofer blog) that I am ineligible to move directly into a FTOS (civilian sponsored) program from HSCP.

If theoretically I had a PD that was willing provide a direct offer at their residency program for GS outside the match how can I get their the quickest? For my own reasons, that I'm happy to go further into, I plan to do at least 10-12 years post medical school on active duty including an active duty residency. I'll be at 16 years active time on completion of medical school and owe 4 years from HSCP. Here are the options I've considered:

1) USN grants me a waiver because I have a direct offer prior to the match and I get FTOS directly from HSCP/Med School
2) USN TY year or GS Intern year, GMO tour, FTOS for residency - with this option how short can I make my GMO tour if I have a spot waiting for me, because who knows how long the PD will be there?
3) GS prelim year with USN, FTOS for residency (PGY2-5): This isn't a direct move from HSCP to FTOS but it seems like I'm gaming the system, plus I'd have to get into the only program the Navy offers prelim for GS.
4) Give up the direct offer, and just pursue a military residency

My family is factoring heavily here as I'd like to keep them local during residency because that would mean my youngest would be off to college and wife and I would more easily more wherever the Navy needed while I completed my utilization and commitment time.

Is there someone at BUMED I can inquire with these types of questions that are a bit more specific than the average situation?

 

[militaryPHYS]

Wow, what an incredible thread, thank you so much OP for providing such a wealth of information!

I have a question for the guru's on this topic, particularly my Navy people. I'm currently an MS3 on HSCP (active enlisted duty). I have read in various places (like CAPT Schofer blog) that I am ineligible to move directly into a FTOS (civilian sponsored) program from HSCP.

If theoretically I had a PD that was willing provide a direct offer at their residency program for GS outside the match how can I get their the quickest? For my own reasons, that I'm happy to go further into, I plan to do at least 10-12 years post medical school on active duty including an active duty residency. I'll be at 16 years active time on completion of medical school and owe 4 years from HSCP. Here are the options I've considered:

1) USN grants me a waiver because I have a direct offer prior to the match and I get FTOS directly from HSCP/Med School
2) USN TY year or GS Intern year, GMO tour, FTOS for residency - with this option how short can I make my GMO tour if I have a spot waiting for me, because who knows how long the PD will be there?
3) GS prelim year with USN, FTOS for residency (PGY2-5): This isn't a direct move from HSCP to FTOS but it seems like I'm gaming the system, plus I'd have to get into the only program the Navy offers prelim for GS.
4) Give up the direct offer, and just pursue a military residency

My family is factoring heavily here as I'd like to keep them local during residency because that would mean my youngest would be off to college and wife and I would more easily more wherever the Navy needed while I completed my utilization and commitment time.

Is there someone at BUMED I can inquire with these types of questions that are a bit more specific than the average situation?

“It can’t hurt to ask” but you won’t be approved for civilian deferment outside of the match. AD residencies filled first, then deferments given.

 

[pgg]

AD residencies filled first, then deferments given

* if and only if there is a projected need for additional people in that specialty, beyond the inservice residency production ...

Lot of people get ALTs for inservice and a nope on the deferment, then head to GMO-land. (Which is not necessarily a bad outcome in the grand scheme of things.)

Very hard to predict.

 

[usnavdoc]

Thats a long post. My advice is cold call/email the programs you are interested in and send your cv. Many programs take applications outside the match for non- traditional applicants. Way easier and cheaper. I got several interviews that way at programs my step scores wouldnt have gotten me in the door. Ultimately, wound up exactly where i wanted.

 

[DuckDock]

This is a wonderful thread -- thank you for your advice and experience! I have some questions for the group.

I am a current GMO applying to civilian residency this cycle in the same specialty I completed intern year in (ADSO will be complete, will separate in June). I am expecting that most programs will want me to repeat some or possibly all of intern year (understandable, I have been away from academic medicine for four years and will need to play some degree of catch up to be at a PGY2 level across the board). Can someone elaborate about how residency funding works for this? Have I already used one year through the military? If so, is this something I will be expected to address in interviews?

 

[upontherocks]

This is a wonderful thread -- thank you for your advice and experience! I have some questions for the group.

I am a current GMO applying to civilian residency this cycle in the same specialty I completed intern year in (ADSO will be complete, will separate in June). I am expecting that most programs will want me to repeat some or possibly all of intern year (understandable, I have been away from academic medicine for four years and will need to play some degree of catch up to be at a PGY2 level across the board). Can someone elaborate about how residency funding works for this? Have I already used one year through the military? If so, is this something I will be expected to address in interviews?

So I did things a little differently: I did a civilian internship then did my GMO time, then I applied to a different specialty. I'm currently a PGY-1 in a 4 year program, but my program reviewed my TY and will count it for a year, so I only need to do 3 years. I don't have to repeat wards and stuff like that. It never came up in any interviews, nor do I think it was really an issue. Your best bet is to reach out to programs you're interested in explaining your situation now to see if they have any concerns. Sometimes they'll respond (I had a few say they actually like former military GMOs), but for what it's worth the program I'm at never responded to me on this when I applied. Good luck!

 

[DuckDock]

So I did things a little differently: I did a civilian internship then did my GMO time, then I applied to a different specialty. I'm currently a PGY-1 in a 4 year program, but my program reviewed my TY and will count it for a year, so I only need to do 3 years. I don't have to repeat wards and stuff like that. It never came up in any interviews, nor do I think it was really an issue. Your best bet is to reach out to programs you're interested in explaining your situation now to see if they have any concerns. Sometimes they'll respond (I had a few say they actually like former military GMOs), but for what it's worth the program I'm at never responded to me on this when I applied. Good luck!

Good to know! In your specialty, do programs have a cap on years since graduation from medical school? If so, did you reach out ahead of time to address that as well? I know some programs will look favorably on GMO time even though it is time away from GME, but I am noticing some others have distinct limits on time since graduating.

 

[upontherocks]

Good to know! In your specialty, do programs have a cap on years since graduation from medical school? If so, did you reach out ahead of time to address that as well? I know some programs will look favorably on GMO time even though it is time away from GME, but I am noticing some others have distinct limits on time since graduating.

Check with the programs. There should be a FAQ page that answers that, if not, contact the program coordinator. Some were explicit in saying "must graduate within last x years", others would say something along the lines of "must graduate within last x years, however exceptions such as spending time in military as GMO, doing research, etc will be considered". I spoke with a coordinator who told me that as long as you were doing something clinical in the time since graduation, like GMO, it won't be much of an issue. I'm pretty sure I got some interviews with 4 years as a GMO when they said 2 years out of graduation.

 

[Boddah12]

The Board of EM has recently changed the rules, which I believe go into effect this summer. If you have spent 3 years (it may be worded as "more than 3 years") between internship and starting PGY2 you will be required to repeat internship.

If you are less than that then you Gould be able to find some programs that will give you at least some advanced standing (although if you didn't do an EM internship they could certainly decide not to).


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Honestly, if you did Navy internship, 4 years of GMO, and want civilian EM, just start as a PGY-1. You will have much better residency options (best reason to leave), and compared to most recent grads, you will perform very well.