Civillian Residency After Military GMO Questions

[ravager135]

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Situation: I am a Navy flight surgeon with a committment expiring in June 2013. At that time I plan to enter a civillian residency in one of the ROAD specialities.

I am looking for information and trying to dispell a myth or two I heard...

1. Have people heard of residencies offering military physicians positions outside the match based on interview? I am a DO so this might be somewhat easier, but I have heard rumor of physicians contacting individual programs and essentially applying like a regular job applicant. The idea is that since a military physician is already licensed, has considerable experience, an impressive resume, etc that these programs will view these individuals differently from the match of fourth years.

2. Is this June 2011 the appropriate time to start my application process? I am told applying two years out is neccessary since I have already completed internship and I need a year anyway for the normal application process.

3. If 1. is not a possibility and 2. remains true, I am assuming I start with ERAS as my first step. I am simply looking for guidance on where to begin as it has been awhile since I've thought about these issues and I largely ignored the application process in med school because I knew I was going to a military transitional internship.

Anyone who has been down this road before please offer any insight into the response residency programs had towards your application coming from the military and where you started.

Thank you.

 

[Dr Daneeka]

1. Yes, you can sign a contract outside the match without violating any rules. If you register for the match and then sign outside you just need to notify the NRMP. Only some programs will go along with this so I recommend also registering for the match.

2. Yes, start applying later this year if you are looking for PGY-2 positions.

3. ERAS is a good place to start. I had to call my medical school to get my ERAS token. From there you can work on your ERAS application. Your med school can also upload your letters of rec, usmle transcripts, med school transcripts, etc.

I am a flight doc as well and currently going through the match process but I am applying to PGY-1 positions to start in July 2011. I also have a co-worker that is currently applying for PGY-2 positions (also doing a ROAD specialty) to start in July 2012. He is also going through the match. Let me know if you have other questions about this process.

 

[ravager135]

Thanks for the info so far. Whats the best way to get in contact with programs who are inclined to take people outside of the match? Is it presumptuous to just call or email residency directors directly or is there a database. For example, a friend of mine in a similar situation as a DMO learned that UVA routinely sets aside an anesthesia spots for military, people already licensed, etc. Is it prudent to contact these programs? I guess I am just realizing being a military physician is somewhat isolating because I obviously never invested alot of time in civillian residency programs when I was a 3rd and 4th year because I knew I was going to be training at military hospitals. I don't know how receptive a place would be to my application considering I haven't rotated there before or minimally as a fourth year several years ago. What sort of reaction have you or your friend gotten? Did you go on TAD or just take leave to rotate at places you intend to apply to?

As far as ERAS is concerned, thank you for reminding me about the token. I forgot about that part of it. I doubt my medical school would have much to contribute to my application at this point though other than my transcript because my letters and CV have obviously changed drastically.

I do appreciate all your help. I know alot of people end up sticking with the Navy because it's the easier thing to do, I don't want to fall into that trap. I have had a great experience so far, but I am ready to have my life back so to speak.

 

[Dr Daneeka]

I don't know the best way to approach programs. I didn't try that option. I had a friend who did that for internal med last year. She just called up the PD at a few programs and asked - it worked well for her.

As for how programs respond to you as an atypical applicant - I had a VERY positive experience. Every interview I went on the interviewers just wanted to talk about my experience and all my deployments. They LOVED the military service. I did not find it to hurt me in anyway. I did not do any away rotations. For interviews I used permissive TDY (the Air Force has a regulation that specifically allows this). I had to pay for travel myself but didn't burn any leave.

Good luck to you! keep the questions coming if you have more. I had a lot last year.

 

[ravager135]

I guess my largest concern is that I am relative unknown to most of the programs I am applying to. Most fourth years spend their time rotating at the civillian programs I intend to apply to whereas my application will come "out of the blue" so to speak. A resident friend of mine who now sits on residency application committees stressed that having passed Step III, already being licensed, etc brands military applicants as a more "sure thing." This was reassuring to hear, but I remain skeptical.

Some timeline issues: I intend to start residency in June/July 2013. I intend to start my application this spring with ERAS. I am assuming I'd submit my application sometime in the late summer via ERAS, anticipate interviews in the fall, and look for the match in the spring of 2012? For your friend who contacted programs directly, did this have any negative impact on ERAS applications. I would love to get a position outside the match and I know my CV and personal statement will set me apart, however I do not wish to seem presumptuous or alienate programs by talking to program directors out of turn. I would think the best time to contact them would be around the time I am preparing to submit my ERAS?

I guess every program is different its just hard to weight an intangible like experience, licensure, reliability as a physician versus tangibles like board scores and face time with faculty.

I appreciate all your input.

 

[BomberDoc]

Ravager,

Do the ERAS application and also make cold calls to program directors/coordinators at various residency programs. I ended up matching through ERAS but personally know several people who were able to secure residency positions outside of the match following their military service. In general, I found programs were very positive toward my military experience.

It basically goes this way: 99% of applicants have gone straight through undergrad and med school. Nobody cares if they have great board scores because everybody has great scores these days. You are very different and therefore very interesting and memorable. It isn't like you spent 3-4 years bartending after internship. You did wild and crazy stuff out there on the edge (sell it this way rather than whining about AHLTA). Tell some good stories and they will probably like you.

Good luck. Start early. Leave no stone unturned.

 

[ravager135]

Dude I love the screen name coupled with the foreign body rectum buddy icon. There is no doubt you are prior service. Are you kidding me? Of course I am going to talk about RVUs and AHLTA hitlist emails, who wants to hear about search and rescue missions in an SH-60? I'm pretty confident I can walk into dermatology at Harvard if I go into deep detail of PHAs and BMRs.

On a serious note, I really do appreciate all the PMs and responses to this thread from guys who have been there and or are going there now. I am definitely proud of my experiences and have some stories to tell, but I am also ready to get back to training and move on with my life. You have no idea how a few votes of confidence make a difference.

I appreciate your endorsement of making the cold calls and emails. I plan on it. I do hope to remain memorable as an applicant. ERAS is a given and I hope that it will showcase my experiences as well.

 

[ProwlerturnGas]

I am was in your shoes in 2004-2005 timeframe. I cold called (emailed) the program directors of each residency I thought would be a good fit. They all responded back and asked me to apply as an out-of-match applicant. I am a DO.

BTW, got interviews at all spots except two--one would have required repeating internship (which I wasnt going to do!), the other's program director was a D*ck.

 

[GMO2003]

As usual BD gives some great advice...I would also suggest putting a nice PDF file together containing your CV, board scores, personal statement, and letters of recommendation...I would also suggest you send it directly to the program director as the program coordinator can sometimes hold things up...good luck

 

[StarboardMD]

Whoa whoa whoa whoa. This (old) thread is blowing my mind. I had no idea there was a way to get a residency outside of going through the whole match process. Does this only apply to specialties that traditionally have a transitional year, or would this apply to any residency? I'm a GMO, and I'm assuming I'll have to repeat most, if not all, of my intern year since I'm not interested in anything that takes transitional interns. Is there a possibility I might get a residency outside of the match?

 

[upchit]

The all in policy has been effective since 2012. The military situation is specifically addressed in this document: http://www.nrmp.org/allinpolicyexception.pdf


The way I read it, if you start before February 1 of the academic year preceding the academic year you are applying for, then you can be offered a position outside the match. So, conceivably perhaps you could fill a spot if someone left a program but I would doubt a PD would hold a position for you for several months to give you a spot. Just my 2 cents.

This certainly makes it more difficult logistically if you are deployed but maybe the programs will be innovative md willing to interview over telephone or if you have the bandwidth, Skype. Good luck.

 

[StarboardMD]

Thanks so much! Exactly the kind of info I was looking for. I knew it was too good to be true. 🙂

 

[teenwolf3]

Ravage135, if you are still on this thread, how'd the match end up turning out? Looks like you were trying to start residency this year from a GMO spot.

I'm in the same position and hoping to get into the civilian sector for residency in the next couple years. Trying to get some research in, but GMO is keeping me busier than expected. Hoping my GMO experience will impress people enough to sell them on giving me a spot through the match.

If people have any more advice I'd love to hear it.