Class expiration/Grade Forgiveness exist?

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WildlifeSaver

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Hi everyone! I am in rustic gears that are starting to work again when it comes down to preparing to apply for a veterinary education again. I thought somewhere I have read in the past that grades can expire? Does anyone know if this is valid, and if so, which schools? I do plan on contacting schools this week to inquire many other things, but thought maybe I could get some insight now as well.

Also, do some US vet schools have grade forgiveness?

By the time I apply, over 5 years will have past since some pre-reqs.

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Some schools do have 'expiration dates' for both required classes and the GRE. This will be different for every school, and should be found somewhere on their website.

There are a couple of schools that have some form of grade forgiveness (like NCSU's alternate admit program) but I'm not sure how these work. Based on past comments, it can be fairly complicated.

One lovely thing to consider with grade stuff: Minnesota and LSU both only look at required and last 45 GPAs, and NOT the cumulative. This might be more useful or practical to you than a grade forgiveness program.
 
Mizzou does grade forgiveness for 6 years back, I think? It's on their website how it works. I was a traditional student, so don't know that much about it.
 
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Some schools do have 'expiration dates' for both required classes and the GRE. This will be different for every school, and should be found somewhere on their website.

There are a couple of schools that have some form of grade forgiveness (like NCSU's alternate admit program) but I'm not sure how these work. Based on past comments, it can be fairly complicated.

One lovely thing to consider with grade stuff: Minnesota and LSU both only look at required and last 45 GPAs, and NOT the cumulative. This might be more useful or practical to you than a grade forgiveness program.
Thanks Twelvetigers. I should buy this years edition of the vetinary medical school requirement.

I just know the schools I want to apply to, but need to also find out what would be best game plan based on what I have or will at the end. I am real curious to know what schools pre-reqs expire though.

As far as the grade forgiveness, that is something I need to look into. Hopefully, many of my upper level science classes kind of off set some other prereqs that are very elementary in level (bio 101 or chem 1).
 
Mizzou does grade forgiveness for 6 years back, I think? It's on their website how it works. I was a traditional student, so don't know that much about it.
I'm pretty sure I will be going to graduate school before applying and my general chems and bios will 100% be well over 6 years old along with my writing classes.

My general chemistry classes weren't the best grades in the world either, so maybe this school should prob be on my list.

I really hope this will not deter my chances because of how old some grades my be.

Thanks everyone for your help. I appreciate the insight. Haven't logged into this forum in years too.
 
AVC only looks at pre-requisites, not cumulative, and science courses expire after 6 years. But it is an expensive school if you're OOS.
So, when they expire, do you have to take them over again though OR something else is taken into consideration?
 
So, when they expire, do you have to take them over again though OR something else is taken into consideration?

I believe you are allowed to take them over again. You are not allowed to re-take them before they expire. You have to take a course covering different material at the same level or an upper level course.

In some cases, they have let courses older than 6 years old "slide" for some people.

That is what I know about that. 👍.
 
UMN did, up through this application cycle, have no expiration for classes (of which I'm aware, anyway). Starting in next year's cycle (applying 2012 to matriculate 2013), all math/science courses have to be within the last decade.

Still a pretty lenient policy. 🙂
 
To the OP:

Yes, it is definitely the case that grades do 'expire' as far as some veterinary schools are concerned.

I am currently 32 years old, and will be 33 when I apply next year. I completed my undergrad pre-reqs an age ago (between 1997-2001). Since graduating, I have been continually employed in the animal science industry (in technical, scientific positions) to present day. That being the case, I don't think that it's useful (or in my best interest) to retake General Biology, Organic Chemistry, and the like- I just don't see much point. I have the same study skills that I did back then (and also completed an advanced degree in the interim), and have complete confidence that I can handle the rigors of a vet school curriculum.

Next year, I will be applying to four schools which do not enforce a 'pre-req expiration' clause. These are: Utah State/WSU, UC Davis, NC State, and Purdue. I am currently a resident of UT, so admission to USU/WSU is my first choice and best chance of admission. It's a very long shot for me to be accepted OOS to UC Davis, and also a long shot for acceptance to Purdue and NCSU given my residency status.

As far as retaking pre-req courses go, that's a choice only you can make. By doing so, you'll make yourself 'eligible' for admission to a far greater number of vet schools country wide. I myself would have added Auburn to my list should they not have had an expiration clause. Auburn recently bumped up its OOS admission to 30 seats per year- that's a significant number, giving an OOS applicant a decent chance of admission. Compare that with UC Davis which only takes 5-8 OOS students per year, or NC State which only accepts 18 OOS students per cycle. Purdue is a bit more generous with its OOS admissions policy.

I'm a firm believer in applying to and attending a veterinary school that will admit you. ALL vet schools are high caliber institutions, and all of them will award you a DVM degree upon completion of the program. The DVM curriculum prepares you to be an entry level, general practitioner upon graduation. That being the case, any vet school will prepare you for an entry level job in the field, and any vet school will prepare you to obtain a residency/internship in your desired field of interest. The rest of the job is up to you as a student- the student needs to put in the time/effort and make the connections to get involved with the field of 'their dreams.'

Given my professional background in the hard sciences, I have chosen not to retake 'expired' pre-req classes. The CORE emphasis of general bio, general chem, organic, analytical writing, biochemistry, etc. has not changed significantly in the past 10 years. Sure, specifics have advanced significantly- I know that as a scientist myself. Remember that the information you read in a current textbook is already 10 years old at the time of publication.

If there's a specific school to which you intend to apply that requires that your pre-reqs be completed within a specific span of time (there are many- typically the expiration window is from 5-10 years), then you really don't have much of a choice other than to retake your pre-reqs. Some schools (I'll cite UPenn here because I contacted admissions on this very issue) don't have a formal policy outlined in the admissions brochure, but do expect courses to be current (i.e. it would be a black mark against you to not have current pre-req classes). Just FYI- Tufts Univ. in MA does not have a pre-req expiration date, in addition to the schools I listed above.

Hope that this point of view is helpful, and gives you some food for thought. As someone who is a bit older, and completed your pre-reqs a while ago, please remember that you've got loads to offer a vet school as far as diversity of life experience goes. In my opinion, that could be more beneficial to you and the school than retaking pre-req courses.

Best of luck/success!
 
As opposed to attending a vet school that won't admit you? 🙂 🙂

Good call, Let It Snow 🙂 What I meant was, that applicants should be happy to be accepted to any school that accepts them (because all of them are great!) vs. being picky about being admitted to a specific school. Just my opinion 🙂
 
As opposed to attending a vet school that won't admit you? 🙂 🙂
Y'know, maybe not a bad plan.... show up to class somewhere every day, learn the info, and THEN apply, get in and make straight A's. I could totally make that work.

(Wait, maybe my acceptance letter was a joke after alll.....)
 
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To the OP:

Yes, it is definitely the case that grades do 'expire' as far as some veterinary schools are concerned.

I am currently 32 years old, and will be 33 when I apply next year. I completed my undergrad pre-reqs an age ago (between 1997-2001). Since graduating, I have been continually employed in the animal science industry (in technical, scientific positions) to present day. That being the case, I don't think that it's useful (or in my best interest) to retake General Biology, Organic Chemistry, and the like- I just don't see much point. I have the same study skills that I did back then (and also completed an advanced degree in the interim), and have complete confidence that I can handle the rigors of a vet school curriculum.

Next year, I will be applying to four schools which do not enforce a 'pre-req expiration' clause. These are: Utah State/WSU, UC Davis, NC State, and Purdue. I am currently a resident of UT, so admission to USU/WSU is my first choice and best chance of admission. It's a very long shot for me to be accepted OOS to UC Davis, and also a long shot for acceptance to Purdue and NCSU given my residency status.

As far as retaking pre-req courses go, that's a choice only you can make. By doing so, you'll make yourself 'eligible' for admission to a far greater number of vet schools country wide. I myself would have added Auburn to my list should they not have had an expiration clause. Auburn recently bumped up its OOS admission to 30 seats per year- that's a significant number, giving an OOS applicant a decent chance of admission. Compare that with UC Davis which only takes 5-8 OOS students per year, or NC State which only accepts 18 OOS students per cycle. Purdue is a bit more generous with its OOS admissions policy.

I'm a firm believer in applying to and attending a veterinary school that will admit you. ALL vet schools are high caliber institutions, and all of them will award you a DVM degree upon completion of the program. The DVM curriculum prepares you to be an entry level, general practitioner upon graduation. That being the case, any vet school will prepare you for an entry level job in the field, and any vet school will prepare you to obtain a residency/internship in your desired field of interest. The rest of the job is up to you as a student- the student needs to put in the time/effort and make the connections to get involved with the field of 'their dreams.'

Given my professional background in the hard sciences, I have chosen not to retake 'expired' pre-req classes. The CORE emphasis of general bio, general chem, organic, analytical writing, biochemistry, etc. has not changed significantly in the past 10 years. Sure, specifics have advanced significantly- I know that as a scientist myself. Remember that the information you read in a current textbook is already 10 years old at the time of publication.

If there's a specific school to which you intend to apply that requires that your pre-reqs be completed within a specific span of time (there are many- typically the expiration window is from 5-10 years), then you really don't have much of a choice other than to retake your pre-reqs. Some schools (I'll cite UPenn here because I contacted admissions on this very issue) don't have a formal policy outlined in the admissions brochure, but do expect courses to be current (i.e. it would be a black mark against you to not have current pre-req classes). Just FYI- Tufts Univ. in MA does not have a pre-req expiration date, in addition to the schools I listed above.

Hope that this point of view is helpful, and gives you some food for thought. As someone who is a bit older, and completed your pre-reqs a while ago, please remember that you've got loads to offer a vet school as far as diversity of life experience goes. In my opinion, that could be more beneficial to you and the school than retaking pre-req courses.

Best of luck/success!
Thanks for all this information. After much stress of being a prevet for so many years, I have decided applying after graduate school after I am finished my undergrad. I just started my undergrad again after years. I really wonder if they are going to make me take all to most of the classes again. I still have genetics, biochem, organicII, calc, physics that I have never taken. I'm just afraid that I'm trying so hard to calculate some of these classes into my requirement track in marine science, that after everything, I will have to again retake them after I get a Phd or something. ha. It would be very unpractical and more years off my life and expensive.
 
I really wonder if they are going to make me take all to most of the classes again.

Another thing to consider is - how well did you do in those classes? While LabVet has a valid point, there is a reason that a lot of schools consider certain classes to have expired after a certain time period. I think it has less to do with the content of the course and more to do with the changes in a person after so much time away from a rigorous classroom setting. So far, vet school has been more about science and hard work than animals, and if you're going to get the prize (becoming a veterinarian) you need to get through the tough courses that give you the knowledge. Vet schools want to see that you're still up to snuff in the classroom, and if the last tough science class you took was seven years ago, I think they are fair to question that of you.
 
Another thing to consider is - how well did you do in those classes? While LabVet has a valid point, there is a reason that a lot of schools consider certain classes to have expired after a certain time period. I think it has less to do with the content of the course and more to do with the changes in a person after so much time away from a rigorous classroom setting. So far, vet school has been more about science and hard work than animals, and if you're going to get the prize (becoming a veterinarian) you need to get through the tough courses that give you the knowledge. Vet schools want to see that you're still up to snuff in the classroom, and if the last tough science class you took was seven years ago, I think they are fair to question that of you.
You do have a point and I would see why, but isn't there a difference if someone is applying their last year of their master degree or phD vs someone who has just been out of school for 7 yrs or whatever?..
 
So far, vet school has been more about science and hard work than animals, and if you're going to get the prize (becoming a veterinarian) you need to get through the tough courses that give you the knowledge. Vet schools want to see that you're still up to snuff in the classroom, and if the last tough science class you took was seven years ago, I think they are fair to question that of you.

Good call, That Redhead. I agree. One has to be confident to look an admissions committee member in the eye and convince him/her (as well as one's self) that you can handle the rigors of a vet school curriculum. If your grades were marginal in pre-req classes (and these classes were taken several years ago), I definitely recommend retaking them. Study hard and improve your scores. If you performed solidly in undergrad core courses (and have no reason to believe that you would perform any differently should you be given the opportunity to retake these in the future), I personally would advise against this option. Please take such advice with a caveat, however. I have not yet been accepted to veterinary school, and am very much a non-trad applicant. Retaking courses (especially those in which you performed well) is a very expensive, time consuming option. I myself am not 'picky' with respect to the vet school which I attend. I'm not ashamed to admit that the motivating factors for me (as far as school selection is concerned) are tuition cost and likelihood of admission. As I stated in my original post, ALL vet schools are excellent institutions of higher learning. As far as I'm concerned, the experience is what you make it. You need to consider your individual situation carefully and be brutally honest with yourself as to where you stand academically. If you feel you would benefit from a retake, by all means go ahead and do so. Not only will you make yourself eligible for a greater quantity of schools, you'll also have the opportunity to increase your overall/science GPA.

You do have a point and I would see why, but isn't there a difference if someone is applying their last year of their master degree or phD vs someone who has just been out of school for 7 yrs or whatever?..

Be careful, WildlifeSaver about attending graduate school simply as an 'interim step' prior to veterinary school. Graduate school is a very demanding road. If you're seriously interested in research as a career option, I say go for it- there's a lot to learn that you wouldn't gain in a clinical setting. However, if you're only pursuing that option as a stop gap prior to applying to vet school, I would strongly recommend that you give that choice a serious second thought. Do you have prior research experience? Do you know for sure that this is a direction that you'd like to go should vet school not work out? Hate to throw cold water on the fire here, but I wouldn't want to direct someone into a research career who hadn't gotten their feet wet, or wasn't sure that they were genuinely interested in research prior to committing to grad school. Just my two cents.
 
Also, WildlifeSaver...

I used to be a resident of New Jersey. I attended Rutgers University, Cook College (now SEBS) as an undergraduate and LOVED it there. Are you still living in Jersey? Jersey gets such a bad rap. Personally, I had a great time there and recall my time in the state with fondness. Many, many happy memories 🙂
 
Also, WildlifeSaver...

I used to be a resident of New Jersey. I attended Rutgers University, Cook College (now SEBS) as an undergraduate and LOVED it there. Are you still living in Jersey? Jersey gets such a bad rap. Personally, I had a great time there and recall my time in the state with fondness. Many, many happy memories 🙂

Jersey gets a bad rap because you can smell it from across the ocean and they don't let you pump your own gas.

But I digress...
 
Totally OT: but are you supposed to tip full service gas pumpers?

yes, at least that's what my family has always done...haven't gone to full service since i've been driving though (11 years now) so maybe it's changed?
 
Jersey gets a bad rap because you can smell it from across the ocean and they don't let you pump your own gas.

But I digress...

Not all of Jersey smells, Dsmoody23 🙂 Just mainly Newark and the Port of Elizabeth. Those are pretty bad, though, and they deserve their negative reputations. Other parts of the state are quite beautiful, though. There are some gorgeous equine breeding/training operations in Jersey. Did you know that Jersey has more horses per square mile than Kentucky? Although some folks laugh that it's nicknamed 'the Garden State,' the label rings true for me.

I definitely don't miss full-service gas stations- takes forever to get your gas 🙂

Still...I say, Jersey represent!
 
Good call, That Redhead. I agree. One has to be confident to look an admissions committee member in the eye and convince him/her (as well as one's self) that you can handle the rigors of a vet school curriculum. If your grades were marginal in pre-req classes (and these classes were taken several years ago), I definitely recommend retaking them. Study hard and improve your scores. If you performed solidly in undergrad core courses (and have no reason to believe that you would perform any differently should you be given the opportunity to retake these in the future), I personally would advise against this option. Please take such advice with a caveat, however. I have not yet been accepted to veterinary school, and am very much a non-trad applicant. Retaking courses (especially those in which you performed well) is a very expensive, time consuming option. I myself am not 'picky' with respect to the vet school which I attend. I'm not ashamed to admit that the motivating factors for me (as far as school selection is concerned) are tuition cost and likelihood of admission. As I stated in my original post, ALL vet schools are excellent institutions of higher learning. As far as I'm concerned, the experience is what you make it. You need to consider your individual situation carefully and be brutally honest with yourself as to where you stand academically. If you feel you would benefit from a retake, by all means go ahead and do so. Not only will you make yourself eligible for a greater quantity of schools, you'll also have the opportunity to increase your overall/science GPA.



Be careful, WildlifeSaver about attending graduate school simply as an 'interim step' prior to veterinary school. Graduate school is a very demanding road. If you're seriously interested in research as a career option, I say go for it- there's a lot to learn that you wouldn't gain in a clinical setting. However, if you're only pursuing that option as a stop gap prior to applying to vet school, I would strongly recommend that you give that choice a serious second thought. Do you have prior research experience? Do you know for sure that this is a direction that you'd like to go should vet school not work out? Hate to throw cold water on the fire here, but I wouldn't want to direct someone into a research career who hadn't gotten their feet wet, or wasn't sure that they were genuinely interested in research prior to committing to grad school. Just my two cents.
Hey labvet! I completely love your honesty and understand what you are saying. I am attending a liberal arts college that happens to have a very high rating as far as my program is concerned (marine science). I wanted to go to cook at one point of my life, but animal science at cook college wasn't my thing! I know people who went there and loved it. In a sense I wish I did go to Rutgers NB for their marine program.

As far as the questions go that I would have to ask myself - "Do you have prior research experience? Do you know for sure that this is a direction that you'd like to go should vet school not work out?" I'm still in the proccess of figuring everything out. I did honestly ask myself if I would even be ready to apply (even after the 7 prereqs I have left with some electives too), that applying when I graduate, is not the right thing to do. I need to be in a place where I can say "I am honestly competitive enough to apply" which would be a huge accomplishment in itself. I just started going back to school again, and currently working out the details to get myself started in some way with research! Who knows, I could HATE it, but from what I've seen, I think I could like it. I could be wrong though because I have before when I thought husbandary was the coolest thing. I have way too many years experience in that area.

My biggest fear is I will like research a lot and all the 7+ prereqs that I have never taken before will expire by the time I apply if my heart doesn't throw me in another direction solely (grad program in marine)

I wish I had your thought proccess to play the application game to your strenghs! All vet schools will give you a degree. My problem is a bit different. In my perfect world I would go to a graduate program and then get into a vet school that has exellent connections with a aqua program (UF) and combine them both to work out in the extremes of nature and in a aquarium or institution. haha, I know, I sound silly to a degree. You also have to like other things then just one area to be sure you want to be a vet too. Things do not always pan out perfectly. Those loans will need to be paid or diner will have to be put on a table. Not to repeat myself as I posted in the "am i too experienced??" thread about these topics.

I know if I went to school for another 6 years and just get out of phD program, you bet that I may not want to retake bio101 again. Time and money waster. Admins at schools I'm sure how to view my application a bit differently.
 
Not all of Jersey smells, Dsmoody23 🙂 Just mainly Newark and the Port of Elizabeth. Those are pretty bad, though, and they deserve their negative reputations. Other parts of the state are quite beautiful, though. There are some gorgeous equine breeding/training operations in Jersey. Did you know that Jersey has more horses per square mile than Kentucky? Although some folks laugh that it's nicknamed 'the Garden State,' the label rings true for me.

I definitely don't miss full-service gas stations- takes forever to get your gas 🙂

Still...I say, Jersey represent!

Yes. Camden has some of the loveliest horse-on-horse violence in America.

3412588573_537c2b574f.jpg
 
Ah, New Jersey! I grew up in northern New Jersey and spent my summers at my grandmother's house at the shore. I now live in the Finger Lakes of upstate New York. I love both places. New Jersey, though, seems to have it all (okay...except it's own vet school)--close shopping and commute to New York City, malls with the best stores, the best food from all around the world (no bagels or pizza anywhere can compare), the ocean, the farms, the tomatoes (none like them anywhere), the mix of people, the four seasons, the mountains, the woods. I never could understand the anti-New Jersey sentiment people from other states have, even now that I've lived elsewhere for many, many years. Of course, there's no perfect place in this world...yes there are yucky parts of New Jersey just like all other states have. But I truly love New Jersey and visit often. In fact, my husband and I have rented a house for the entire month of June next summer at the shore (one and a half blocks from the beach)....I can't wait to be there!
 
Ah, New Jersey! I grew up in northern New Jersey and spent my summers at my grandmother's house at the shore. I now live in the Finger Lakes of upstate New York. I love both places. New Jersey, though, seems to have it all (okay...except it's own vet school)--close shopping and commute to New York City, malls with the best stores, the best food from all around the world (no bagels or pizza anywhere can compare), the ocean, the farms, the tomatoes (none like them anywhere), the mix of people, the four seasons, the mountains, the woods. I never could understand the anti-New Jersey sentiment people from other states have, even now that I've lived elsewhere for many, many years. Of course, there's no perfect place in this world...yes there are yucky parts of New Jersey just like all other states have. But I truly love New Jersey and visit often. In fact, my husband and I have rented a house for the entire month of June next summer at the shore (one and a half blocks from the beach)....I can't wait to be there!

I'm in Rochester 😀 Which lake are you near? I was down in Geneva last weekend.
 
I live in Painted Post (next to Corning)...so I'm closest to Seneca and Keuka Lakes. We spend a lot of time antiquing in Hammondsport and Watkins and walking the Glenn and also love Skaneateles and Ithaca (though a bit further). And you and I both have Newfies, too! Maybe our dogs are related? My 18 month-old is from Renaissance Newfoundlands in Darien Center (near Darien Lk. amusement park) and the almost one year old is from McFall's Newfoundlands in Freeville (very near Ithaca). We have spent a lot of time in Rochester, too, since my husband went to U of R for both undergrad and grad school! He now works for that one company that everyone in the Corning area works for.... My favorite mall in the area The Eastview Mall in Victor, about an hour and a half from my home. Here in NY state we drive long distances to do things, right? But there is no traffic like in NJ, so an hour's drive around here is 50 miles instead of 15! As much as I love New Jersey, I also love this area. It is so picturesque. Sometimes I believe I live in the most beautiful place on earth...but I know there's no one perfect place. Certainly it is very depressed in Steuben County (where I live) right now.
 
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